The thing with ETHER (which I noticed 10 yrs ago when it was first released and now bc been basically off for an entire year) is you take it as directed, you get some pumps, some endurance, some stim free nootropic results, but I swear, wait till the 2nd time you train a body part on it, like when you rotate back around to back or chest or quads....weights start going up like your on the moon. Most consumers however want that "what can you do for me today" which is why you see products like Aminos and caffeine selling like crazy (Amino energy).