Want a LEGAL pro hormone...

[LG Sciences]

How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

Legal prohormones on the market now are:

1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
4-Andro - bulking
19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.

 

[Gmm004]

How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

Legal prohormones on the market now are:

1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
4-Andro - bulking
19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.

I'm looking for mass and strength I'm not to worried about being "cut" I'm a nice sized guy but I'm not as strong as I would like. Also I have parts of my body that I'm not happy with that I'm currently changing my WO routine to focus more on.

 

[Gmm004]

How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

Legal prohormones on the market now are:

1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
4-Andro - bulking
19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.

Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).

 

[6andaHalf]

Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).

That's multiple cycles for most people my friend. And those gains would have to be from something that DEFINITELY requires a SERM. Period. That's a big transformation, man. Multiple years for an already, somewhat avid lifter.

Doing a real PH (mild-methylated) cycle is not going to put you close to that LBM wise. Maybe strength wise with the right compound like Epi or even heavier but usually you won't stay that strong after youre off again.

There's no secret to big mass and strength. It takes a long goddamn time and a sh*t ton of delicious animals.

 

[Spaniard]

You asked about a PH that would give you above natural gains. X-gels are not that. They are a natural product that are supposed to mimic PH "like" gains and require no PCT because they are not hormonal.

If you want PH gains you have to take a PH.

That being said you may gain something from them. But once you take an actual proven PH, any product that does not require PCT will seem like bringing a squirt gun to fire hose fight.

Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.

 

[6andaHalf]

Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.

Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.

 

[abformulations]

Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.

What mild ph you referring to? Curious

 

[6andaHalf]

I'm curious too

 

[thegodfather]

X-Gels = Hot Dog
Mild PH = Quarter Pounder
Designer Steroid = Double Quarter Pounder w/ Potatoes
Injectable = New York strip with loaded baked potato

 

[LG Sciences]

Nice analogy.

My suggestion for a mild PH stack that will add that would be:

1-Andro AMS, LG, Forerunner or Finiflex - choose sublingual tablets, sublingual liquid, liquid capsules, capsules
Epiandro - LG - EPIANDRO liquid

PCT - take your choice with anything that has 3,5-diene-dione in it. Form-XT is ours (tabs or liquid), Reboot, PCT, Erase etc...

These two promote a lot of strength and decent mass. Obviously you need to eat well and lift heavy.

Also, you have to realize that every person is different, so what one responds to is not what everyone responds to...

 

[R1balla]

Shoot I'll log the 6 mass!

 

[Spaniard]

Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.

Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here. You don't have to believe what I'm saying, the results speak for themselves.

 

[pyrobatt]

Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.

How tall are you? I only ask because you CAN add more size on a bigger frame. Im 6'5 and I gained 30 lbs my second year and the calipers measured a 2% bf gain.

Significant size compaired to the guys who gain 6 to 10 lbs a year lean at 5'5.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

a significant point to be made in this conversation (not pointing any fingers at all), is that FAR too many guys jump straight to PH/steroid use, BEFORE they have mastered all the steps necessary to TRUE growth, in the natural realm..
not only speaking of whatever natty supps can be run to aid in the process, but in training itself (ie technique), or even more importantly - dietary considerations
very few ppl know how to eat....take all that ignorance into the realm of hormonal product, and you will not come even close to getting all you can out of hormonal boost

you start out crawling...then learn to walk..before you can even think about running....

 

[Spaniard]

a significant point to be made in this conversation (not pointing any fingers at all), is that FAR too many guys jump straight to PH/steroid use, BEFORE they have mastered all the steps necessary to TRUE growth, in the natural realm..
not only speaking of whatever natty supps can be run to aid in the process, but in training itself (ie technique), or even more importantly - dietary considerations
very few ppl know how to eat....take all that ignorance into the realm of hormonal product, and you will not come even close to getting all you can out of hormonal boost

you start out crawling...then learn to walk..before you can even think about running....

Great post, ya dirt bag

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Great post, ya dirt bag

even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in awhile

 

[6andaHalf]

Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here. You don't have to believe what I'm saying, the results speak for themselves.

Please don't act like because you saw one log that I ran "all those" compounds. You dont have to be an A-hole dude, you know zero about me. Sorry you didnt like my opinion that X-gels wont give you the same results as something that requires a SERM, but you can at least be civil about it and not attack me with assumptions and defense mechs. I even said like 3 times... "not to bash" and "just being honest". You on the other hand should not be representing a company when you say sh*t like that.

BTW That avi is all natural, prick. And I was repped twice for that post. Try to not judge so much. It gets you nowhere.

I was 225 all natty before my first cycle. I ran hdrol as a noob and f*cking it all up, broke even and just now I ran DMZ and gained 20 lbs, 18 of which I'm holding strong after almost 2 weeks of PCT.

 

[6andaHalf]

How tall are you? I only ask because you CAN add more size on a bigger frame. Im 6'5 and I gained 30 lbs my second year and the calipers measured a 2% bf gain.

Significant size compaired to the guys who gain 6 to 10 lbs a year lean at 5'5.

6-10 in a year is even pretty good for me at this point. I'm 6'6". I know what you mean too, I gained like 30 lbs my first 2.5 years. Then lost it all from Arthritis in my spine and ankles. I'm almost back to wear I was all natty about 2 years ago but this time I have WAY less bf and I'm stronger.

Good insight though.

 

[Spaniard]

I was 225 all natty before my first cycle. I ran hdrol as a noob and f*cking it all up, broke even and just now I ran DMZ and gained 20 lbs, 18 of which I'm holding strong after almost 2 weeks of PCT.

This is the only part of that post that I'll give time to. You ran Hdrol as a noob and effed it all up. That wouldn't have happened with X-Gels, which is why when someone is looking for a mild ph, X-Gels not needing a PCT etc is a fantastic alternative .

 

[6andaHalf]

This is the only part of that post that I'll give time to. You ran Hdrol as a noob and effed it all up. That wouldn't have happened with X-Gels, which is why when someone is looking for a mild ph, X-Gels not needing a PCT etc is a fantastic alternative .

I never said it wasn't a fantastic alternative. I did say that it would not yield the same gains as something that would require a PCT. You seem to be just grabbing the facts what you want to hear and disregarding my whole point and that they're not the same as a mild ph.


And seriously, you're going to take one look at my avatar and decide that I don't know anything. Or maybe you went into my threads and saw that I ran a cycle once. Either way I think you would have been better off sticking to your argument with logic instead of insulting me. For your information I actually went through a very traumatic event after getting to 225 all natural and I lost close to 30 pounds. I happen to be very happy with how I look right now considering I have still gained 40 pounds of LBM in the 4 years including the entire year where I was almost bedridden. So cut on me all you want all I'm ever going to do is compare my results to my results

 

[pyrobatt]

6-10 in a year is even pretty good for me at this point. I'm 6'6". I know what you mean too, I gained like 30 lbs my first 2.5 years. Then lost it all from Arthritis in my spine and ankles. I'm almost back to wear I was all natty about 2 years ago but this time I have WAY less bf and I'm stronger.

Good insight though.

Im at 5 years training and I can say 6 to 10 is decent for me aswell. I miss the doms I got from my first atg squat haha! Still get doms but not that 4 days bow legged walk kinda doms.

 

[mw1]

X-Gels = Hot Dog
Mild PH = Quarter Pounder
Designer Steroid = Double Quarter Pounder w/ Potatoes
Injectable = New York strip with loaded baked potato

Make that a foot long hot dog

 

[thegodfather]

Make that a foot long hot dog

As a rep, you forfeit your right to reply to this. In all actuality, you may be right and it is a better product than a regular hot dog since I have never personally used it. However i have used Halodrol Liquigels when they came out a century ago and it also was an ARA supplement, one which made me feel like complete ass. The pro-inflammatory effects were ridiculous. I wish the best for X-Gels, I just don't think its for me.

 

[mw1]

As a rep, you forfeit your right to reply to this. In all actuality, you may be right and it is a better product than a regular hot dog since I have never personally used it. However i have used Halodrol Liquigels when they came out a century ago and it also was an ARA supplement, one which made me feel like complete ass. The pro-inflammatory effects were ridiculous. I wish the best for X-Gels, I just don't think its for me.

Xgels definitely isnt for everyone. 4 weeks at 3-4 caps is all I care to do

 

[R1balla]

i still need to try them....

 

[Spaniard]

I never said it wasn't a fantastic alternative. I did say that it would not yield the same gains as something that would require a PCT. You seem to be just grabbing the facts what you want to hear and disregarding my whole point and that they're not the same as a mild ph.


And seriously, you're going to take one look at my avatar and decide that I don't know anything. Or maybe you went into my threads and saw that I ran a cycle once. Either way I think you would have been better off sticking to your argument with logic instead of insulting me. For your information I actually went through a very traumatic event after getting to 225 all natural and I lost close to 30 pounds. I happen to be very happy with how I look right now considering I have still gained 40 pounds of LBM in the 4 years including the entire year where I was almost bedridden. So cut on me all you want all I'm ever going to do is compare my results to my results

I'd challenge someone to a friendly little wager of me on X-Gels vs them on Halo. From start to finish, finish being a month or so post PCT, the outcomes would be very similar. My results might be a little better

 

[Spaniard]

Btw I never insulted you. I remained professional while you insulted me calling me a prick etc. I was commenting merely on your experience level. You've ran two from what I've counted (hdrol and the other thread you referred to which I had no idea about) cycles and have relatively little to show for it. You're recommending someone follow in your footsteps with a mild PH including the risks, while they could get the same results with a more sustainable and healthier alternative. My logic is off?

You may not like what I have to say but I'd prefer to sway someone in a more beneficial direction when first starting out, than making the same mistakes you made with your cycle. The trend on these forums is people jump head first into steroids without knowing their heads from their assess, feel and look awesome for the length of the cycle and then.... back to square one, which means time for SD lol, it's asinine.

I'm sorry to hear about your personal problems. I sincerely hope everything is on the up and up now.

 

[abformulations]

I'd challenge someone to a friendly little wager of me on X-Gels vs them on Halo. From start to finish, finish being a month or so post PCT, the outcomes would be very similar. My results might be a little better

This sounds like a lot of fun.

You vs 6andahalf lol WAR!!

 

[Gmm004]

I'm still trying to figure out of Xgels are the way to roll. Everyone just started to measure how big their peckers were and sorta got off target.

 

[R1balla]

I would love to log xgels with dermacrine one day

 

[harbonah]

I have been told Xgels have a nice synergistic effect with AAS/PH been thinking about logging them with a nice stack. I think Spaniard does have a point when it comes to a lot of users as they do not have pct figured out and loose a lot of their gains from cycle. But a veteran should not be loosing those gains other then glycogen and water.

 

[mw1]

I have been told Xgels have a nice synergistic effect with AAS/PH been thinking about logging them with a nice stack. I think Spaniard does have a point when it comes to a lot of users as they do not have pct figured out and loose a lot of their gains from cycle. But a veteran should not be loosing those gains other then glycogen and water.

Having been with CEL and SNS for many years I cant tell you how many times ive seen people lose their gains by slackibg on diet and training in pct- its probably the number 1 mistake

 

[harbonah]

Having been with CEL and SNS for many years I cant tell you how many times ive seen people lose their gains by slackibg on diet and training in pct- its probably the number 1 mistake

Oh I get your point and I am sure of it! that is why I qualified my statement with "should not" because there will always be some even with the ones that should know better.


:thumbsdown:

 

[6andaHalf]

Im at 5 years training and I can say 6 to 10 is decent for me aswell. I miss the doms I got from my first atg squat haha! Still get doms but not that 4 days bow legged walk kinda doms.

Haha I hear you! A good 20 rep finisher atg will still having me pulling myself out of my car with the help of both arms 3 days later.

 

[6andaHalf]

Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here.

Um yea about not immediately insulting me after my post...

I mean how can you think attacking my results in a picture via assumption is not insulting. I started at 168 lbs 4 years ago. I was also immobilized for 10 months in that time frame. In my eyes, if you hadn't assumed you would know for a 6'6" ecto that's probably not all that bad. I am 208 @ -10% and have been 225 all natty at one point before the immobilization. I've done one cycle before my current DMZ cycle and it didn't go as well as it could have. Not a failure... but a "first time" like many guys have.

And now there is a wager you created? Haha that is actually kind of a cool idea. Why don't you send me some Xgels instead when I'm recovered and we can duke it out in a way your company would love you for haha. Two dude bragging about how much better they gain on xgels. Or I can just run DMZ again and well all see what happens haha. Hope you can gain 20lbs on those things! Jk I'm done with with the arguing though, man. And I would really do the xgels thing if you wanted... only good things can come of it for you. Its not like you are going to be able to accurately gauge progress between our extremely dif body types, though.

 

[R1balla]

Um yea about not immediately insulting me after my post...

I mean how can you think attacking my results in a picture via assumption is not insulting. I started at 168 lbs 4 years ago. I was also immobilized for 10 months in that time frame. In my eyes, if you hadn't assumed you would know for a 6'6" ecto that's probably not all that bad. I am 208 @ -10% and have been 225 at one point before the immobilization. I've done one cycle before my current DMZ cycle and it didn't go well haha

And now there is a wager you created? Haha that is actually kind of a cool idea. Why don't you send me some Xgels instead when I'm recovered and we can duke it out in a way your company would love you for haha. Two dude bragging about how much better they gain on xgels. Or I can just run DMZ again and well all see what happens haha. Hope you can gain 20lbs on those things! Jk I'm done with with the arguing though, man. And I would really do the xgels thing if you wanted... only good things can come of it for you. Its not like you are going to be able to accurately gauge progress between our extremely dif body types, though.

Hey I called dibs on logging first!!!

 

[6andaHalf]

Hey I called dibs on logging first!!!

Haha no sweat man. But company reps should really start hosting competition oriented logs. What a PR dream...

 

[Jiigzz]

Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.

 

[R1balla]

Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.

How do you think it would stack with Dermacrine then? I'm planning on either doing derm or anabeta

 

[6andaHalf]

Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.

Interesting. Sounds good to me but I don't think anyone in this thread ever said anything about not seeing results.

Sounds like a great natty product and possibly the best way to get your feet wet with cycling. Its the comparison to mild, methylated PHs that seems like a bold statement. Can you vouch for that, personally?

 

[Jiigzz]

Interesting. Sounds good to me but I don't think anyone in this thread ever said anything about not seeing results.

Sounds like a great natty product and possibly the best way to get your feet wet with cycling. Its the comparison to mild, methylated PHs that seems like a bold statement. Can you vouch for that, personally?

As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible

 

[6andaHalf]

As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible

That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.

I have
well, ArA anyway, when the compound first came out under MN..
I hesitate to respond in my rep capacity (which is an unfortunate thing too as a sidenote - just because someone is with xyz company does not necessarily make everything they say biased, it just happens quite a bit is all )..but honestly, I never got anything much out of original formula

and I make note, I was natty trainer at that point, able to squeeze anything out of almost ANY sup thru my accompanying peripheral regimens..

conversely, when I first ran 2-step dhea analogs and whatnot with PP, I was able to tell definitive differences, and very rapidly..
of course, harsher things (methylated and whatnot) followed, and were even more notable ....

just sharing my own anecdotal experiences, no hate or denigration to anyone or any product

 

[Jiigzz]

That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.

I like Ara and I feel it complements any natty stack but, like R1balla said, if you want PH gains, then take a PH

 

[Jiigzz]

I have
well, ArA anyway, when the compound first came out under MN..
I hesitate to respond in my rep capacity (which is an unfortunate thing too as a sidenote - just because someone is with xyz company does not necessarily make everything they say biased, it just happens quite a bit is all )..but honestly, I never got anything much out of original formula

and I make note, I was natty trainer at that point, able to squeeze anything out of almost ANY sup thru my accompanying peripheral regimens..

conversely, when I first ran 2-step dhea analogs and whatnot with PP, I was able to tell definitive differences, and very rapidly..
of course, harsher things (methylated and whatnot) followed, and were even more notable ....

just sharing my own anecdotal experiences, no hate or denigration to anyone or any product

None taken snags

All anecdotal (whether they're a rep or not) is valuable to anyone looking to experience a product and seeking differing view points

 

[Spaniard]

That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.

No one lit you up, you're being a sensitive Sally

 

[Spaniard]

As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible

Nothing is impossible

 

[6andaHalf]

No one lit you up, you're being a sensitive Sally

"Sensitive Sally" would be reverting to attacks rather than a civil debate. Its called a defense mechanism.

Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here.

Nothing constructive here at all. Just a rep being sensitive, making accusations and then finding out his accusations were wrong.

And Jiigzz is right dude, it is pretty much impossible. You take 2 identical twin bodybuilders, give one Xgels and the other a methylated steroid and it will be a land slide. If you still disagree then you need to swallow some pride. We all believe in ourselves and the products we support but be logical about it. Aim high but don't spew stuff like that.

I changed my avi for you. I hope I can participate in this topic, now. Sorry I have no genetics and am 1,000 ft tall haha. I am happy though for 3 years of training. I'm not here to impress you, anyhow.

And no I'm not angry dude. I have no problem with you at all. Wish you all the best. I just don't like people that don't know me passing judgement. Do you? I doubt it....

 

[thegodfather]

Changed my Avi too.

 

[6andaHalf]

Changed my Avi too.

Oooo la la (slight homo)

Nice sig BTW, too. Makes me want to lift.