"Stimulant Break" Necessary, Science or BroScience?

[rob112]

Does anyone know how the adrenals thing started? JC

 

[bigflex0]

Well perhaps this book had something to do with it: Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome it is available on that rain forest site that sells everything. I would link but they sell supps and that is bad form.

Personally I wonder if the "adrenal fatigue" people seem to suffer, and I personally feel burnt out over time myself on stims, has something to do with sleep quality. Taking stimulants has been theorized to effect sleep in some individuals. Even if sleeping the normal amount of time one sleeps perhaps getting lower quality ie less deep sleep for a month ends up wearing us out and we jump to the conclusion that our adrenals are fatigued.

 

[EatMoar]

Well perhaps this book had something to do with it: Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome it is available on that rain forest site that sells everything. I would link but they sell supps and that is bad form.

Personally I wonder if the "adrenal fatigue" people seem to suffer, and I personally feel burnt out over time myself on stims, has something to do with sleep quality. Taking stimulants has been theorized to effect sleep in some individuals. Even if sleeping the normal amount of time one sleeps perhaps getting lower quality ie less deep sleep for a month ends up wearing us out and we jump to the conclusion that our adrenals are fatigued.

That's causation. If you don't get sleep due to stims then there's your issue, not your adrenals. You're just tired.

 

[bigflex0]

I understand that what I am saying is that perhaps people are getting less restful sleep and when then get burnt out are attributing it to "adrenal fatigue."

 

[saggy321]

Or 'adrenal fatigue' could be a significant change the hormonal profile due to stimulants and an excessive calorie deficit for a prolonged period that takes several weeks or months to normalise. I went through this last year and I also attributed to Adrenal Fatigue until Coop and others schooled me. But what I can say is that I felt awful for a number of weeks and couldn't return to the gym for a good four months. So there was something at play even if not the adrenals.

 

[horizons]

Subbed for more info!

 

[rosemont83]

So...
I don't have to take 4 weeks off from alphamine!?!?
<3333

 

[horizons]

Is one week off stims enough for a "break"

My friends never have a break just stop taking pre workouts and just cut down to a coffee in the morning for a week or two.

 

[john A.]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

 

[T-Bone]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

LMAO!!!.

 

[horizons]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

Didn't we confirm that adrenal blow out is bs?

These guys take stims for like up to 3 months of so then just take a week off

 

[EatMoar]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

hey REP get the **** out of here pushing your BS product. you dont need a ****ing adrenal rest supplement, if anything thats COUNTER productive. it takes two weeks for your tolerance (on average) to g back to normal and reset.

 

[john A.]

No one is attempting to push a product out for him. It was a kind recommendation for him & tip for future reference. By the way my name isn't REP EatMoar so if you could as in I did for you I addressed you by your name.

 

[john A.]

Adrenal Blowout is bs? Well, let me tell you that when the adrenal glands don't function properly it's called Addison disease. Thus, although your mates take stim for up to 3 months what they don't realize is the fact that if they continue is that it leads to high cortisol levels. I myself personally can't do the constant intake of caffeine & pre-workouts for that long of a time period as your mates have. I usually take a break from the stims. But, I as well use to take take pre-workouts 3-4 days at a time a week (range from 200mg-300mg). It had gotten to a point where the pwo wern't working for me at all & I would drink a high carb protein shake 45 min before taking my pre-workout just to give me that extra perk of energy in the gym. I've taken an assortment of various one's, also it depends on how much caffeine and other stims are contained in a pre-workout. For instance I once had a sample of Razor8 which contains 400mg of caffeine & it didn't do squat for me at all.

 

[mmats]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

Getting an adrenal blowout when Im going 65 on the highway is one of my biggest fears.

 

[mmats]

Adrenal Blowout is bs? Well, let me tell you that when the adrenal glands don't function properly it's called Addison disease. Thus, although your mates take stim for up to 3 months what they don't realize is the fact that if they continue is that it leads to high cortisol levels. I myself personally can't do the constant intake of caffeine & pre-workouts for that long of a time period as your mates have. I usually take a break from the stims. But, I as well use to take take pre-workouts 3-4 days at a time a week (range from 200mg-300mg). It had gotten to a point where the pwo wern't working for me at all & I would drink a high carb protein shake 45 min before taking my pre-workout just to give me that extra perk of energy in the gym. I've taken an assortment of various one's, also it depends on how much caffeine and other stims are contained in a pre-workout. For instance I once had a sample of Razor8 which contains 400mg of caffeine & it didn't do squat for me at all.

Im confused, is Addisons caused by taking too many stims or not taking enough CTDLABS Adrenal Fix-A-Flat?

 

[horizons]

Adrenal Blowout is bs? Well, let me tell you that when the adrenal glands don't function properly it's called Addison disease. Thus, although your mates take stim for up to 3 months what they don't realize is the fact that if they continue is that it leads to high cortisol levels. I myself personally can't do the constant intake of caffeine & pre-workouts for that long of a time period as your mates have. I usually take a break from the stims. But, I as well use to take take pre-workouts 3-4 days at a time a week (range from 200mg-300mg). It had gotten to a point where the pwo wern't working for me at all & I would drink a high carb protein shake 45 min before taking my pre-workout just to give me that extra perk of energy in the gym. I've taken an assortment of various one's, also it depends on how much caffeine and other stims are contained in a pre-workout. For instance I once had a sample of Razor8 which contains 400mg of caffeine & it didn't do squat for me at all.

Have you got any studies or any scientific back up of adrenal blowout existing? Wouldn't the whole world be under this? I work in the office and nearly every single person drink copious cups of coffee a day and not once or even heard of having a break.

I understand the need to have a break to not develop a dependency or a tolerance.

So is everyone saying NO caffeine at all for a week or two or just cutting out all pre workouts and maybe keeping a morning coffee is ok to do here and there

 

[mr.cooper69]

Did I just read that taking stims causes addison's disease? Hmm, you have rewritten the medical textbooks sir

 

[mr.cooper69]

Adrenal Blowout is bs? Well, let me tell you that when the adrenal glands don't function properly it's called Addison disease. Thus, although your mates take stim for up to 3 months what they don't realize is the fact that if they continue is that it leads to high cortisol levels. I myself personally can't do the constant intake of caffeine & pre-workouts for that long of a time period as your mates have. I usually take a break from the stims. But, I as well use to take take pre-workouts 3-4 days at a time a week (range from 200mg-300mg). It had gotten to a point where the pwo wern't working for me at all & I would drink a high carb protein shake 45 min before taking my pre-workout just to give me that extra perk of energy in the gym. I've taken an assortment of various one's, also it depends on how much caffeine and other stims are contained in a pre-workout. For instance I once had a sample of Razor8 which contains 400mg of caffeine & it didn't do squat for me at all.

I'll address this awful post. Addison's disease is caused by genetic or autoimmune causes.

If you don't feel stims, it is due to peripheral receptor downregulation.

Cortisol increases from stims is transient and actually decreases with continuous use, not increases.

 

[bdcc]

I used to believe stimulants could cause adrenal fatigue.

I also used to believe in Santa Claus.

 

[horizons]

Hahahaha

All I asked was a question of how long is enough for a break and can you have one coffee a day

 

[T-Bone]

I used to believe stimulants could cause adrenal fatigue.

I also used to believe in Santa Claus.

....What...No Santa?. Who will bring me my PES Protein?.

 

[mmats]

What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out.

Ahh I see, Addisons is caused by literally blowing your adrenal gland out of your head. That makes more sense.

 

[Montego1]

You build a tolerance to stims.
Take a stim break.
A cup of coffee ed will not destroy your stim break.
Easy enough right?

 

[horizons]

You build a tolerance to stims.
Take a stim break.
A cup of coffee ed will not destroy your stim break.
Easy enough right?

Sounds easy as

 

[EatMoar]

Adrenal Blowout is bs? Well, let me tell you that when the adrenal glands don't function properly it's called Addison disease. Thus, although your mates take stim for up to 3 months what they don't realize is the fact that if they continue is that it leads to high cortisol levels. I myself personally can't do the constant intake of caffeine & pre-workouts for that long of a time period as your mates have. I usually take a break from the stims. But, I as well use to take take pre-workouts 3-4 days at a time a week (range from 200mg-300mg). It had gotten to a point where the pwo wern't working for me at all & I would drink a high carb protein shake 45 min before taking my pre-workout just to give me that extra perk of energy in the gym. I've taken an assortment of various one's, also it depends on how much caffeine and other stims are contained in a pre-workout. For instance I once had a sample of Razor8 which contains 400mg of caffeine & it didn't do squat for me at all.

ADDISONS DISEASE IS RARE. ARE YOU SERIOUS?! You just dont devlop addisons disease, it is a deficiency in your endocrine system where it can not produce hormones such as glucocorticodes. dude you need to read into things more before posting. addisons is VERY rare.

 

[harbonah]

ADDISONS DISEASE IS RARE. ARE YOU SERIOUS?! You just dont devlop addisons disease, it is a deficiency in your endocrine system where it can not produce hormones such as glucocorticodes. dude you need to read into things more before posting. addisons is VERY rare.

Being ADHD I can confirm that you won't get Addison's from long term stim use... 2 years is my longest with out any break from methylphenidate...it still works but I do take breaks from it more often now...



And before some says cool I can take stims for years based on my post the answer is no, you simply can't its not healthy...

 

[horizons]

Being ADHD I can confirm that you won't get Addison's from long term stim use... 2 years is my longest with out any break from methylphenidate...it still works but I do take breaks from it more often now...



And before some says cool I can take stims for years based on my post the answer is no, you simply can't its not healthy...

Probably not healthy but my parents have drunken cups of coffee every single day for over 30 years with no adverse effects

 

[harbonah]

Probably not healthy but my parents have drunken cups of coffee every single day for over 30 years with no adverse effects

There are many health benefits from coffee so I doubt they would have anything to worry about at all.

Nice to see another Aussie on the boards.

 

[Synapsin]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

Get out of here with your junk. Adrenal fatigue is not real.

 

[john A.]

Basically you misread what I wrote. What I stated was when the adrenal glands a.) shut down totally and b.) don't produce enough cortisol and/or aldosterone it can occur. Actually two forms of it, maybe I should've defined it a little better as adrenal insufficiency (fatigue). Anyway everyone's body reacts to certain stims different than others which merits the fact as I stated in my post that I personally do take breaks from stimulant pre-workouts etc. Pure plan and simple too much of anything will cause sometime to occur. Yet, stims basically fool the adrenal glands to put out more adrenaline which eventually for long-term usage can lead one to dependence, as the adrenals down-regulate and function poorly without the use of a stimulant.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Basically you misread what I wrote. What I stated was when the adrenal glands a.) shut down totally and b.) don't produce enough cortisol and/or aldosterone it can occur. Actually two forms of it, maybe I should've defined it a little better as adrenal insufficiency (fatigue). Anyway everyone's body reacts to certain stims different than others which merits the fact as I stated in my post that I personally do take breaks from stimulant pre-workouts etc. Pure plan and simple too much of anything will cause sometime to occur. Yet, stims basically fool the adrenal glands to put out more adrenaline which eventually for long-term usage can lead one to dependence, as the adrenals down-regulate and function poorly without the use of a stimulant.

And you would be totally wrong. Addison's disease is not caused by the inability of the adrenal glands to function. It causes the inability of the adrenal glands to function.

 

[lronFist]

Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers

^this post just blew out my adrenal glands

 

[Synthesis]

So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?

 

[gmanall]

So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?

Correct, the main reason to cycle stimulants is to reduce tolerance.

 

[Synthesis]

Correct, the main reason to cycle stimulants is to reduce tolerance.

So what are these factors? Would help bring some clarity to the discussion

 

[gmanall]

So what are these factors? Would help bring some clarity to the discussion

To quote coop:If you don't feel stims, it is due to peripheral receptor downregulation.

So it'd seem tolerance is not depleting your body of something, causing adrenal fatigue or anything of that nature. It's your body building a tolerance to something it's exposed to on a regular basis.

 

[mmats]

So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?

Yea, the "other factor" has been mentioned about a hundred times in this thread.

 

[Synthesis]

To quote coop:If you don't feel stims, it is due to peripheral receptor downregulation.

So it'd seem tolerance is not depleting your body of something, causing adrenal fatigue or anything of that nature. It's your body building a tolerance to something it's exposed to on a regular basis.

I don't think I have articlulated my point clearly enough... So I'll try again

Yea, the "other factor" has been mentioned about a hundred times in this thread.

Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?


From the mayo clinic site:

Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. As a result, they can't produce quite enough of the hormones you need to feel good. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is.

 

[mmats]

I don't think I have articlulated my point clearly enough... So I'll try again



Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?


From the mayo clinic site:

Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. As a result, they can't produce quite enough of the hormones you need to feel good. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is.

You believe people on the internet who self diagnose themselves with adrenal fatigue and then cure it with adaptogens. That is neat

 

[T-Bone]

I see a ton of people on here and ask for medical advice instead of going to the doctor. What's even worse is people reply to them, telling them to self-medicate with supplements. I don't understand that. When I have a medical issue, the last place I want to ask questions is an internet message board.

 

[BlackWinging]

Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?

The only thing I can think of is the acute stress/increased anxiety stimulants can cause to those who are stim sensitive is what people refer to as "adrenal fatigue". Doing a full .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine will give a good amount of people high anxiety, this combined with ordinary daily stress will surely give them a feeling of lethargy and irritability, and over a week would cause a significant amount of stress. I assume the help from adaptogens comes from lowering the perceived amount of stress they feel (which is generally heightened by the stims) and also the physical response to stress. This leads to people feeling normal, energized, happy, etc...

 

[T-Bone]

The .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine...Shouldn't that be spread out throughout the day instead of taken all at one time?.

 

[BlackWinging]

The .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine...Shouldn't that be spread out throughout the day instead of taken all at one time?.

I've always used that as 1 dose. I'm about 100kg so I do 20mg along with 200mg of caffeine when I use it. I may do that 2-3 times a day if I know I'll be fasted, otherwise 1 morning dose.. Yohimbine loses its effect on me pretty fast, so I don't feel stimmed out after the first few days.

 

[Synthesis]

You believe people on the internet who self diagnose themselves with adrenal fatigue and then cure it with adaptogens. That is neat

On the contrary... I do not believe the adrenal fatigue diagnosis... I am just relaying other peoples thoughts and experiences in order to get a deeper understanding of this matter

I see a ton of people on here and ask for medical advice instead of going to the doctor. What's even worse is people reply to them, telling them to self-medicate with supplement s. I don't understand that. When I have a medical issue, the last place I want to ask questions is an internet message board.

Couldn't agree more... but technically adrenal fatigue is not recognised by the medial community so this issue does not present itself in this case

The only thing I can think of is the acute stress/increased anxiety stimulants can cause to those who are stim sensitive is what people refer to as "adrenal fatigue". Doing a full .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine will give a good amount of people high anxiety, this combined with ordinary daily stress will surely give them a feeling of lethargy and irritability, and over a week would cause a significant amount of stress. I assume the help from adaptogens comes from lowering the perceived amount of stress they feel (which is generally heightened by the stims) and also the physical response to stress. This leads to people feeling normal, energized, happy, etc...

Thanks for your input... So again you would say it boils down to an issue of tolerance but in this case individuals who are sensitive to stims... who probably would be better off without them

 

[bdcc]

^this post just blew out my adrenal glands

This is the real mechanism of adrenal fatigue. The adrenal glands get blown out of your body like an ejector seat.

 

[mmats]

This is the real mechanism of adrenal fatigue. The adrenal glands get blown out of your body like an ejector seat.

Nah, its caused by the extreme stress of cooking shellfish.

 

[bdybldnaam]

Nah, its caused by the extreme stress of cooking shellfish.

LOL

 

[ryanp81]

If adrenal fatigue is as bad or as common as some people pan it out to be here on AM then I should be the poster boy for it ( for the record it's being blown totally out of proportion ) and with that being said there are way way more stressors in life than just putting stimulants in your body that can cause these so called symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

T-bone nailed it with the first post.

 

[lronFist]

IExisting blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.