coolbreeze
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Just wondering why the new directions on Sus Alpha say to cycle 5 days on and 2 off?
Its recommended to maximize the sensitivity of the GnRH receptors and leydig cells…Just wondering why the new directions on Sus Alpha say to cycle 5 days on and 2 off?
Its recommended to maximize the sensitivity of the GnRH receptors and leydig cells…
Basically, the 2 days off gives your body a chance to become responsive to the LH & FSH stimulation again, so you can reap the maximum benefit.
-Eric
I suppose, but I honestly don’t know exactly how a lot of these herbal T boosters work… in fact I don’t think anyone really does.I see, so could one switch to another agent in those off days? One perhaps that does not work via opoid modulation?
I was looking to use T-Bol as it has a lot of good feedback. But now you got me thinking - any mechanism of elevating T is going to eventually down regulate, so best case would IMHO to cycle Sustain Alpha and then switch to another mechanism of action. Plus is 2 days in a row really long enough for keeping sensitivity high? I wonder what is better - 4 weeks on straight and then switch to something else, or 5 on/2 off indefinately?I suppose, but I honestly don’t know exactly how a lot of these herbal T boosters work… in fact I don’t think anyone really does.
What where you thinking?
-Eric
It wouldn’t make a difference on training days IMO.Recognize this 5 on, 2 off micro-cycle from another company's recommendations for what I think is a similar product.
Do we know if 5 on-2 off means exactly what it says or if it is just a total of 5&2, as in the two off days can be separated into two single off days, like, say, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off with equal effect?
Putting that another way, how would you recommend the on days and the off days coincide with training days, off and on?
You wouldn’t want to do this. Sustain is totally maxed out solubility wise.Can I throw some 7-OXO in sustain?
And you should be able to pick up the topical solution at NP pretty soon, but until then :cheers:You wouldn’t want to do this. Sustain is totally maxed out solubility wise.
We sell the topical solution alone for this though...
-Eric
Well I think Dermacrine would be a better option than oral DHEA if your main goal is to increase DHEA.I am on HRT for the past 3 months, I use 75mg of test. cream. I had blood work done and my DHEA level was really low, I did not notice any benefits from the cream to date, but after adding 50mg of oral DHEA, I feel alot better. My question is would adding the new Sustain be a better option that oral DHEA.....
You can try the 3 on, 3 off protocol [6 pumps] as a way to extend the bottle out and still reap positive benefits..... the libido related benefits should be become obvious within a few days.Yea, the libido is one thing thats not really responding to the T cream, any suggestions on how to apply other than the usual 5 on 2 off...
Well it won't hurt your endocrine system (ProHormones and steroids will do that for you ) but the usefulness will be rather limited. Your money would probably be better spent on more staple supplements in my opinion.How old is safe to use sustain aplha? I know it effects the endocryne system but dont really see how it would do harm, just wondering whether its safe to use at 17
s 2 days in a row really long enough for keeping sensitivity high? I wonder what is better - 4 weeks on straight and then switch to something else, or 5 on/2 off indefinately?
I would guess the 2 days off would be sufficient. This is the general recommendation for LH/FSh boosters stimulators with a relatively short half-life.Bump. This is a good question that I never saw an answer to.
Sounds like a good combo for those concerned about hairloss.Whats this about?
Phytoestrogen Resveratrol Suppresses Steroidogenesis by Rat Adrenocortical Cells by Inhibiting Cytochrome P450 c21-Hydroxylase
"Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments"
I never knew Resvertrol increased Progesterone and lowered Cortisol.
Sounds like a good combo for those concerned about hairloss.
You're joking, yes? Virtually everyone you will ever meet, including yourself, is experiencing excessive cortisol secretion from psychological and physiological stress in his or her daily life. Eventually this constant state of high(er) cortisol release overworks the adrenal glands and they tire, producing less adrenal hormone (including cortisol). In other words, almost everyone who has deficient cortisol levels was put there by a long period of excessive cortisol secretion. It is somewhat like Type I diabetes in this regard.That sounds like a disaster to me. People dont need there Cortisol lowered its a very important hormone. People dont walk around with high Cortisol levels constantly, more people have lower levels from stress not high. This Cortisol lowering fad is bad news. Any time ive tried things that lower Cortisol its been a disaster.
Progesterone/pregnenolone are some of the body's best natural anti-inflammatories. In addition, progesterone inhibits 5-alpha reductase, which is a huge for hairloss.Progesterone is also bad news its very hard to get rid of once your levels go up. Its stored in fat tissue are hard to get rid of. It also mimicks Cortisol at the receptor sites and can cause low Cortisol symptoms and also cause bloating and fat gain.
Anytime ive tried anything with Pregnenolone in it ( converts to progesterone ) its been a disaster.
Could you clarify this? 5-AR inhibition correlates with lower expression of DHT, producing a favourable environment for (head) hair growth (and an unfavourable environment for body-hair growth)....Progesterone/pregnenolone are some of the body's best natural anti-inflammatories. In addition, progesterone inhibits 5-alpha reductase, which is a huge for hairloss.
Sorry, "huge" as in "hugely positive." In other words, a substance that inhibits 5-AR, as you point out, would be hugely beneficial for those fighting loss of head hair.Could you clarify this? 5-AR inhibition correlates with lower expression of DHT, producing a favourable environment for (head) hair growth (and an unfavourable environment for body-hair growth).
:thumbsup:Sorry, "huge" as in "hugely positive." In other words, a substance that inhibits 5-AR, as you point out, would be hugely beneficial for those fighting loss of head hair.
This is a good question, and I definitely don't have all the answers. I think the short answer is that, before you have adrenal fatigue, anything that promotes a modest reduction in cortisol (or, if you prefer, does not stimulate its release) is probably a good thing."As such, taking something that lowers cortisol levels, like reducing stress, would be a good way to avoid adrenal fatigue. But I agree, once you got adrenal fatigue, lowering cortisol is probably not a good strategy. It sounds like you have adrenal fatigue."
Hmmmm, this is a very interesting perspective. So it would be better to address adrenal fatigue FIRST before using SA or other supps that lower cortisol?
Then the question becomes, what's the best way to address adrenal fatigue? I would think limiting the negative effects of stress would be part of the solution - this would imply the use of some sort of cortisol reduction supplement.
Ok - now I'm confused.
This is a good question, and I definitely don't have all the answers. I think the short answer is that, before you have adrenal fatigue, anything that promotes a modest reduction in cortisol (or, if you prefer, does not stimulate its release) is probably a good thing.
Our body is, by evolutionary design, a bit oversensitive to the prospect of a famine or other disaster. Stress because we're starving or because we are stuck in traffic and late for a meeting looks the same to the body. The problem is that while cortisol does something helpful in the former scenario (down regulates metabolism, catabolizes metabolically expensive lean tissue for fuel, etc.), it does nothing in the latter.
Obviously, in this day and age, we face much more of the sort of harmless, psychological stress. Blunting the cortisol release in that instance would probably not be a terrible thing, because the cortisol really has nothing to do (no inflammation to quench, no famine to prepare for). You are, in other words, lowering cortisol that is unnecessarily high.
When adrenal fatigue sets in, however, the game changes. In that instance, the body can't supply enough cortisol to meet the requirements for daily activities. As such, suppressing cortisol (with a supplement) would further exacerbate the deficiency. Often times, people with adrenal fatigue are given synthetic cortisol like Cortef. I suspect this has two functions: One, obviously, is to supply the much needed cortisol (i.e., to raise cortisol that is dangerously too low). But the addition of synthetic cortisol may also give the adrenal gland a chance to rest and eventually resume its normal function.
As you can see, though, limiting stress is always a good idea because it is an unnecessary call for cortisol release. Ideally, you would only want your body to call for cortisol when it is really necessary and have adrenals that are able to respond to that call.
I also think that it is useful to avoid things that overly stimulate the adrenals, such as caffeine and other stimulants. Overtraining is also a bad idea. In general, we all endure too much stress, train too much, and use too many stimulants. When adrenal fatigue sets in, I think the answer may simply be a dedicated reduction of stress-inducing activities, stimulants, lots of rest, and in some cases, perhaps a synthetic cortisol preparation.
Whats this about?
Phytoestrogen Resveratrol Suppresses Steroidogenesis by Rat Adrenocortical Cells by Inhibiting Cytochrome P450 c21-Hydroxylase
"Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments"
I never knew Resvertrol increased Progesterone and lowered Cortisol.
I don’t have time to jump into a cortisol requirement argument right now but…
Rats have different cytochromes enzymes than humans, and that was only testing adrenal cell influence, not testicular influence ….you can’t really apply any of this info to humans.
-Eric
Well i know all about Cortisol requirments, Nobody can tell me anything regarding this that i dont know or havent experienced pesonally myself.
We ALL need Cortisol levels in the normal range for optimal health. And testing has to be done with a 4 times per day saliva test.
8am Cortisol levels should be at the top of the normal range, same with noon Cortisol levels. 4-5pm Cortisol levels can be at the middle of normal range same with midnight Cortisol levels. This is for optimal health. Im living breathing experience on how much Cortisol is required to function optimally. Thyroid levels are also important as they go hand in hand with adrenals. Free T4 should be midrange and Free T3 top of the high normal range to slightly over.
As far as the rats, thats cool, i was just curious because im interested in Resveratrol, but i dont want to touch it if its going to lower Cortisol and increase Progesterone. Nobody needs there Cortisol levels lowered unless they test high For Cortisol and something should only be taken at the time of day your Cortisol pattern goes high if all other Cortisol patterns are normal at all other times of the day. If people taking Cortisol lowering products or drugs had normal Cortisol levels in the first place, they wont feel to good after a little while, they will start to feel the negative effects of low Cortisol. Before testing mt levels i assumed i had high Cortisol so i took Cortisol lowering products and got sick and felt the worst ive ever felt.
HC can be used to treat high Cortisol as dosed properly will actually lower Cortisol levels. High Cortisol is the stage before adrenal fatigue and Cortef HC allows the adrenals to rest and repair, supporting them before they burn out.
A cortisol lowering drug is not the same as a dietary nutrient that will lower cortisol. [protein for instance]
I have no doubt you understand the importance of cortisol are are familiar with having side-effects from too low/high cortisol, but your broad spaning fear of “lowing cortisol” stems from a mis-understanding of the function and proper rhythm of cortisol release… as it is for a lot of people.
I’ll be writing a full review on cortisol, insulin and possibly thyroid in the near future.
-Eric
No im fully aware of the function and proper rhythm of Cortisol release.
-Eric
Eating protein will lower cortisol, are you suggesting this is a bad idea?No im fully aware of the function and proper rhythm of Cortisol release.
Thats why i dont think anybody should take anything that lowers Cortisol without checking their Cortisol levels at 8am - 12pm - 4 or 5pm - and midnight first. Its not wise to start messing with these hormones without knowing what your levels are and when. I dont think its wise to start messing with this hormone. When my levels were low i put muscle without even trying but i felt like ****. To protect from stress and high Cortisol levels that can happen anytime after training, when you are stresses,ect, adapagenic herbs are best along with plenty of multi B vitamins, vitamin c,ect.
This gives the proper picture of your daily Cortisol rhythms and along with monring DHEA-S levels to give a picture to how your adrenals are functioning.
Eating protein will lower cortisol, are you suggesting this is a bad idea?
-Eric
You sure? Try not eating protein for a couple weeks and then re-check your cortisol. The point Eric and I are making is that a great many things lower cortisol, yet no reasonable person would consider them a problem (e.g., avoiding psychological stress, getting adequate sleep, eating sufficient nutrients, avoiding too much exercise, avoiding infections). If you have no problem with those, why do you question nutritional things (e.g., resveratrol, PS) which also help lower cortisol levels? Unless you believe that we should all be going around doing everything possible to raise cortisol. . .Not to the extent that will show up a significant difference on a saliva test.
You sure? Try not eating protein for a couple weeks and then re-check your cortisol. The point Eric and I are making is that a great many things lower cortisol, yet no reasonable person would consider them a problem (e.g., avoiding psychological stress, getting adequate sleep, eating sufficient nutrients, avoiding too much exercise, avoiding infections). If you have no problem with those, why do you question nutritional things (e.g., resveratrol, PS) which also help lower cortisol levels? Unless you believe that we should all be going around doing everything possible to raise cortisol. . .
You didn't understand what I'm saying. If you want to see a change in cortisol based on protein, try not eating it AT ALL for a couple weeks and re-test.Yeah im sure, i DO eat protein regularily and i do test my blood pressure here at my house, sitting to standing blood pressure to check if my adrenals are supported and Cortisol levels are good, and even eating 6 scoops per day, 150 grams of protein from this alone, doesnt lower my Cortisol levels enough for it to make a significant differance. I check my blood pressure 3 times per day at the same times everyday. This way i can see what helps or hurts my adrenals.
You didn't understand what I'm saying. If you want to see a change in cortisol based on protein, try not eating it AT ALL for a couple weeks and re-test.
If you knew anything about endocrinology (and it is sufficiently clear from your responses in this thread thus far), you would know that it is impossible to increase testosterone without affecting cortisol levels. So don't hold your breath for something that increases T without lowering cortisol.If Sustain Alpha increased natural Testosterone production without affecting Cortisol or Progesterone levels, and also lowered Estrogen levels then i would be all over it.
If you knew anything about endocrinology (and it is sufficiently clear from your responses in this thread thus far), you would know that it is impossible to increase testosterone without affecting cortisol levels. So don't hold your breath for something that increases T without lowering cortisol.
"Are not!"I know more about Endocrinology than you.
Please stop mis-representing the study from the rat adrenal glands.I know more about Endocrinology than you.
Testosterone may lower total Cortisol levels but it also increases free Cortisol levels so at the end of the day there is not that much difference.
Now lets not get off topic about the whole 400% increase in Progesterone deal now. Testosterone doesnt increase Progesterone levels, so thats just a really bad side effect of Resveratrol. Not to mention that Resveratrol can also act like an Estrogen AGONIST which is also not a good thing.
"Are not!"
"Are too!"
"Are not!"
"Are too!"
. . .
Please stop mis-representing the study from the rat adrenal glands.
This effect does not apply to humans, and Sustain does not raise progesterone 400% in humans. Ive seen enough human blood tests to verify this.
Haven’t you used Sustain before? And didn’t you get blood panels while using it?
-Eric
I'm not a rep; I just don't have much patience for stupidity.Hi Eric, cool, thats why i posted this study and instead of your reps trying to correct this info they get all defensive and start talking about other things than the main issue at hand.
I'm not a rep; I just don't have much patience for stupidity.