First cycle

[hurlockiv]

Decided I'm gonna run a Test E cycle.
My mate has done quite a few cycles and has recommended I run both Test and Decca @ 500/400 or 600/500, 2 shots weekly, both mixed into 1 shot on Mon and Thurs for 10 weeks.
I've used a couple of Superdrol clones in the past but never real sauce, from all the reading it seems the Test is the best way to go for a first cycle. I've heard mixed responses regarding the Decca though, some say hell yeah, some say don't do it. I'd like to know what some of the vet's on here have to say.

I'm currently using Letro to get rid of some gyno from the damn superdrol, I'm @ 2.5mg ed right now, id say its 75% gone and seems to be improving every day, only thing left are some really small bumps under the nip's and the nip's are a tad puffy, I'm hoping that they go back to normal.

That said, I've read quite a few logs where guys running Decca also run Letro or Aromasin or even Nolvadex for the entire cycle in order to keep bloating down. If I choose to go with the Decca and Test would that be a good idea ?

Stats as follows:

Age 29
Height 6ft
Weight 218-220 ( every days different )
years lifting 9
Body fat % 10ish

I'm hoping to reach 235-240lbs and then get down to about 6-7% body fat, been told that's definitely possible, nice to get some opinions there too.

Thanks very much for reading, hope to get some good feedback.

 

[LilPsychotic]

If your having gyno problems, test will likely make it worse. You may want to go with something that doesn't aromatize, but it all depends on what your goals are. Personally I'd go with something like primobolan and var, bu again it depends on your goals and what kind of gains you're looking for.

 

[MF210]

I'm not a vet as you requested, so I want to start with that.

However, a minimal dose of deca should be a great addition to the test as a stack as long as you have the proper ancillaries to cover potential gyno, and post cycle restoration of the testes.

 

[pistonpump]

I'm not a vet as you requested, so I want to start with that.

However, a minimal dose of deca should be a great addition to the test as a stack as long as you have the proper ancillaries to cover potential gyno, and post cycle restoration of the testes.

agreed. ive had gyno problems as well and im on a test deca cycle now, had some problems but dosed 40mg nolva til the symptoms went down then i used 20mg nolva ed, and have done so the whole cycle. I also do 1mg letro e3d. Get some legit nolva to block the breast tissue and get an ai to lower overall estrogen from time to time.

 

[hurlockiv]

OK, so assuming I go with the 500test/400decca what chems would you suggest as a precautionary measure against gyno recurrence and at what dosage?
I have no problem buying whatever I need to run with the sauce in order to maximize the results and minimize unwanted sides.

I was thinking either clomid or nolvadex as the main chem for pct with the possibility of post cycle support from Annabolic Innovations, not sure if this would conflict with the aforementioned chems though as Trans reversatol is a SERM also.

I was also looking to run Cycle Support by the same company while on cycle.

@ Piston Pump, sorry mate, I missed your post above. So it seems you'd probably steer me toward running both Nolvadex and Letro during the whole cycle?

 

[pistonpump]

OK, so assuming I go with the 500test/400decca what chems would you suggest as a precautionary measure against gyno recurrence and at what dosage?
I have no problem buying whatever I need to run with the sauce in order to maximize the results and minimize unwanted sides.

I was thinking either clomid or nolvadex as the main chem for pct with the possibility of post cycle support from Annabolic Innovations, not sure if this would conflict with the aforementioned chems though as Trans reversatol is a SERM also.

I was also looking to run Cycle Support by the same company while on cycle.

@ Piston Pump, sorry mate, I missed your post above. So it seems you'd probably steer me toward running both Nolvadex and Letro during the whole cycle?

good to have nolvadex, letro or aromasin, and cabergoline on hand for this cycle. I havent needed to use the cabergoline thankfully but i have it incase. It would be to lower prolactin levels that could rise from the Deca. I wouldnt use any of these unless you have too. You should be straight the first 4 weeks or so at least but if you want to be safe you can start with 20mg tamox (nolva) eod around week 4 or 5. You may not need it tho its up to you. You can always add it in there if nipps get itch, sore, or sensitive. Then add 40mg tamox ed until it subsides then 20mg thru out.

 

[hurlockiv]

So when im reading about guys using Aromasin or Letro while on Decca to keep down " bloat " im assuming they mean water retention? not for gyno unless it flares up?

Also, im being warned about " Decca 'Johnson' " Is this likely to happen to most people or does it vary like most sides?

 

[nosnmiveins]

So when im reading about guys using Aromasin or Letro while on Decca to keep down " bloat " im assuming they mean water retention? not for gyno unless it flares up?

Also, im being warned about " Decca 'Johnson' " Is this likely to happen to most people or does it vary like most sides?

aromasin keeps estro low along with bloat, letro destroys ALL estro.

Test should counter the effects of "Deca D!ck" so u should be fine

 

[hurlockiv]

So Aromasin would be good to get hold of and start if I notice bloating? What's the general dosage or how often would I take it?

And thank god I wont have to worry about Deca D!ck, my gf would hate me if she went 10 weeks without some " Pistonpump " :toofunny: sorry mate, I just love the name.

Then for PCT, aside from Nolvadex or Clomid, would it be useful to use a natural test booster for a while?
or just lay off and let things level out on their own with a good multi vit and anything else you might have to recommend?

Ive done lots of reading on both Cycle Support and Post Cycle Support, the latter of which I used during PCT after a Pro Hormone cycle last year. Would you suggest using either of these during and after the cycle?

 

[nosnmiveins]

not sure on aromasin dosage, just search. as for PCT u can use nolva and/or clomid for 4 weeks. i dont really see a need for Post Cycle Support.

u can run cycle support throughout, i think its a good idea

 

[hurlockiv]

not sure on aromasin dosage, just search. as for PCT u can use nolva and/or clomid for 4 weeks. i dont really see a need for Post Cycle Support.

u can run cycle support throughout, i think its a good idea

Awesome, thanks mate.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Awesome, thanks mate.

i also suggest having Caber on hand incase prolactin gyno occurs

 

[pistonpump]

aromasin is typically run 12.5mg eod or ed.

 

[hurlockiv]

i also suggest having Caber on hand incase prolactin gyno occurs

I'll have to do some reading up on Caber then.

 

[hurlockiv]

aromasin is typically run 12.5mg eod or ed.

12.5mg? did you by chance mean 1.25mg?

Not saying you were wrong as I have no idea, just the max Letro dose I'm using for the gyno I had was only 2.5mg, 12.5 seems crazy. Again dont take that as an argument I was just shocked at the number.

 

[nosnmiveins]

letro and aromasin are different....aromasin usually comes in 25mg tabs....half of that is 12.5mg

 

[hurlockiv]

I knew they were different meds but wow, thats a high dosage pill. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess thats why people stress how strong Letro is, hence the much smaller dosage.

 

[TheeBC]

Ive seen for Aromasin as a common protocol

10mg ED or 12.5mg EOD.

Tripdog spoke about using letro e3d @ 1mg.


I too am entering my first cycle. Im just deciding on letro or aromasin. 1mg is a low dose, but its a suicide inhibitor. if im not mistaken aromasin is at a 65% success rate of blocking estrogen.

 

[nosnmiveins]

aromasin will AID in preventing gyno....letro will kill gyno and IMO shouldnt be used until gyno occurs

 

[hurlockiv]

Yeah the Letro really is strong stuff, I've noticed since hitting 2.5mg my fuse has been kind of short and I've been feeling more aggressive, losing my temper a bit too often. I guess not having any estrogen in me lets the testosterone rule.
Other bad side is achy joints, I have knee issues already and the Letro definately made them hurt more, hopefully I'll be able to start tapering down soon.
I have Nolvadex at hand to start about half way through my down taper so estro rebound will be in check.

Im just trying to get all this other info straight so I can start the cycle as soon as everythings back to normal.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Yeah the Letro really is strong stuff, I've noticed since hitting 2.5mg my fuse has been kind of short and I've been feeling more aggressive, losing my temper a bit too often. I guess not having any estrogen in me lets the testosterone rule.
Other bad side is achy joints, I have knee issues already and the Letro definately made them hurt more, hopefully I'll be able to start tapering down soon.
I have Nolvadex at hand to start about half way through my down taper so estro rebound will be in check.

Im just trying to get all this other info straight so I can start the cycle as soon as everythings back to normal.

wait im confused, so ur on letro now by itself? and u will begin a AAS cycle in the weeks to come?

 

[TheeBC]

yeah, the achy joints seems like I may not want to play with it. I have joint problems in my elbows, and knees. I might still go with aromasin. However, I got a little gyno flare from a past cycle; I think. anyone know if letro would clear this up in general?

thats what I thought too nosnmiveins

 

[hurlockiv]

wait im confused, so ur on letro now by itself? and u will begin a AAS cycle in the weeks to come?

Yeah, the short of it was...I got some late onset gyno from a Superdrol cycle. In all honesty my PCT was not that great, I learned my lesson. I got the Letro to take care of the gyno which its doing a great job of.

I had spoken to a few fellas, one of which said, "forget the Letro for now, go ahead and run your cycle and take care of the gyno after, it might even be reduced by the steroids"

I was sceptical of this so I went the safe route and set out to kill the gyno first.
So, at this point im gearing up to run the Test E and Deca cycle in the near future once im off the Letro and have spent a couple of weeks running Nolvadex to get everything back to normal.

 

[nosnmiveins]

ok, gotcha

 

[hurlockiv]

yeah, the achy joints seems like I may not want to play with it. I have joint problems in my elbows, and knees. I might still go with aromasin. However, I got a little gyno flare from a past cycle; I think. anyone know if letro would clear this up in general?

thats what I thought too nosnmiveins

I can attest to the efficiency of Letro. Ive been running it for about 2 1/2 weeks now and I'm currently on 2.5mg ed. Within the first 4 days the tenderness was completely gone and over the course of the next 2 weeks the lumps have almost gone completely. All that's left really are slightly puffy nipples which I'm hoping will go away too (fingers crossed)

I waited a while to start taking it too, financial reasons held up the purchase, probably a month and a half, maybe longer after I finished my half arsed PCT. Even so, the stuff has really worked for me.

 

[pistonpump]

Ive seen for Aromasin as a common protocol

10mg ED or 12.5mg EOD.

Tripdog spoke about using letro e3d @ 1mg.


I too am entering my first cycle. Im just deciding on letro or aromasin. 1mg is a low dose, but its a suicide inhibitor. if im not mistaken aromasin is at a 65% success rate of blocking estrogen.

u have to see what works for you, everyone is different. Honestly you just use the recommended dosages as baseline guides but you need to find your sweet spot, dependant on your aromatizing estrogen tolerance and the amount of gear you are using. 1mg letro eod or e3d is a good protocol ime. Arimidex was way to weak for me at 1mg ed.

 

[TheeBC]

u have to see what works for you, everyone is different. Honestly you just use the recommended dosages as baseline guides but you need to find your sweet spot, dependant on your aromatizing estrogen tolerance and the amount of gear you are using. 1mg letro eod or e3d is a good protocol ime. Arimidex was way to weak for me at 1mg ed.

agreed.

I think my gyno came from a SD rebound. I had cortisol issues too. I think I almost broke down when all this **** happened with my hormones being all whacked out plus a girl.

I wont touch SD again. Free bottle anyone. 65pills left! cover shipping and a dollar for my troubles!

 

[hurlockiv]

OK, after some more research and a good chinwag with some other mates Ive decided on a different route, let me know what you think....

Week Test.E: DANABOL: Winstrol :
1) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
2) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
3) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
4) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
5) 500mg/week ------------ 20mg/day
6) 500mg/week ------------ 20mg/day
7) 500mg/week ------------ 20mg/day
8) 500mg/week
9) 500mg/week

Post Cycle Therapy

Clomid: Nolvadex:
10) 100mg/day 20mg/day
11) 50mg/day 20mg/day

Was thinking id use Cycle Support while on, hearing lots of good things about it.

Still planning on 2 test shots weekly, Mon/Thurs = 250mg in the AM.
The Winstrol and Danabol I was gonna split the dose I guess, 1 of each in the AM and another of each late afternoon.

I just broke 220lb's again finally which was my target weight before going on cycle.
The cycle I proposed should give me some nice gains and hopefully keep me lean and solid, assuming I keep my diet in check.
How many Cal's roughly would you recommend?... I'm all complex carbs, fruits, veggies and much chicken and tuna.

My only problem is sleep, or lack of it. I usually get 4-6 hours. I work construction so some days are gruelling while others are easy, I guess I'm gonna have to be more strict and get to bed early.

Also, I hope im allowed to ask but what size syringes should I use for the Test?
I was thinking 23g, 1 1/4", was gonna pin shoulder, shoulder, glute, glute going from right to left.

Thanks fellas.

 

[TheeBC]

You and I are running the exact cycle except my orals are "legal" over the counter ones, but both do kind of the same thing.

winstrol is bar far the MOST toxic oral if im not mistaken.

You should place a gap, and run winstrol at the end.

Im running 2 orals as well like you with test E. even same injection times. except. 8 weeks of continual use of orals esp. winny, is more then DAMAGING. plus winstrol leans you out, use it towards the end. it'll get shed the water, etc. that way you wont be a bloated hippo when coming off.

Maybe....

Test E Wk 1-12 500mg
DB 1-4
Winny 8-12

If you're set on 9 weeks, atleast take it to 10. allow a little gap for rest on the liver. Heres a link to my cycle layout.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pvWN5p_Nm4aAEJzUaZzKDCg&hl=en

Im allowing 2 weeks of orals past injection to allow esters to clear and I have a better idea of where my body will be when clearing the left over test. Plus half lives of orals are hours, so PCT can be started right on time with in hours versus guessing in days or weeks when test is clearing. Some ppl are comfortable with that, me, im not.

 

[thundergod]

You and I are running the exact cycle except my orals are "legal" over the counter ones, but both do kind of the same thing.

winstrol is bar far the MOST toxic oral if im not mistaken.

You should place a gap, and run winstrol at the end.

Im running 2 orals as well like you with test E. even same injection times. except. 8 weeks of continual use of orals esp. winny, is more then DAMAGING. plus winstrol leans you out, use it towards the end. it'll get shed the water, etc. that way you wont be a bloated hippo when coming off.

Maybe....

Test E Wk 1-12 500mg
DB 1-4
Winny 8-12

If you're set on 9 weeks, atleast take it to 10. allow a little gap for rest on the liver. Heres a link to my cycle layout.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pvWN5p_Nm4aAEJzUaZzKDCg&hl=en

Im allowing 2 weeks of orals past injection to allow esters to clear and I have a better idea of where my body will be when clearing the left over test. Plus half lives of orals are hours, so PCT can be started right on time with in hours versus guessing in days or weeks when test is clearing. Some ppl are comfortable with that, me, im not.

I checked out your spreadsheet. I like it man. The Phera is a great substitute for D-Bol. And the Epistane at the end of the cycle would funtion much like Winstrol or Proviron. It would harden and solidify your gains from the previous weeks. Plus, the Epi will function as a SERM and block circulating estrogen from binding to the ER. I think your plan is sound!:thumbsup: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[pistonpump]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pvWN5p_Nm4aAEJzUaZzKDCg&hl=en

Im allowing 2 weeks of orals past injection to allow esters to clear and I have a better idea of where my body will be when clearing the left over test. Plus half lives of orals are hours, so PCT can be started right on time with in hours versus guessing in days or weeks when test is clearing. Some ppl are comfortable with that, me, im not.

nicely down, that looks perfect really nothing to point out there.


to the OP, i would agree with spacing the dbol and winstrol out to different times in the cycle. run the winstrol starting sometime after the dbol but as long as you can go to week 11 with it while the ester is clearing week 10 and 11. I dont have much BF so i get away with 25g needles...this can also depend on the gear as some will have a hard time flowing thru the 25g and itll be a slow process, i still use it anyway. 23g is good too esp for the glutes, youll need the 23g. 23g glutes and 25 shoulders but if i had to pick just one based on your injection sites id say get the 23g cuz you need a longer pin for the glutes and 25g is 1" usually.

 

[hurlockiv]

You and I are running the exact cycle except my orals are "legal" over the counter ones, but both do kind of the same thing.

winstrol is bar far the MOST toxic oral if im not mistaken.

You should place a gap, and run winstrol at the end.

Im running 2 orals as well like you with test E. even same injection times. except. 8 weeks of continual use of orals esp. winny, is more then DAMAGING. plus winstrol leans you out, use it towards the end. it'll get shed the water, etc. that way you wont be a bloated hippo when coming off.

Maybe....

Test E Wk 1-12 500mg
DB 1-4
Winny 8-12

If you're set on 9 weeks, atleast take it to 10. allow a little gap for rest on the liver. Heres a link to my cycle layout.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pvWN5p_Nm4aAEJzUaZzKDCg&hl=en

Im allowing 2 weeks of orals past injection to allow esters to clear and I have a better idea of where my body will be when clearing the left over test. Plus half lives of orals are hours, so PCT can be started right on time with in hours versus guessing in days or weeks when test is clearing. Some ppl are comfortable with that, me, im not.

Nice spreadsheet mate, that's what I call planning.

So the kit I ordered was put together as a 9 week kit, I'm assuming there's only enough Test to run 9 weeks then.

Here's the breakdown of all compounds :

1 x TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE ICN by Galenika (Size: 10 amps)
8 x TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE ICN by Galenika (Size: 1 amp)
4 x CLOMID 50mg by EGIS, GREECE (Size: 12 tabs)
1 x NOLVADEX 10mg by HEXAL (Germany) (Size: 100 tabs)
1 x DANABOL 10 MG by Balkan Pharmaceuticals (Size: 50 tabs)
3 x Winstrol (STROMBAFORT) 50 MG by Balkan Pharmaceuticals (Size: 50 tabs)

I follow what your saying as far as the Winny goes, if I'm only using Test for 9 weeks ( assuming I cant stretch it out ) I guess I could run the Danabol weeks 1-4, then the Winny weeks 5-12 or 6-13 ?

If I alter the cycle length at what point should I start using the Clomid and Nolva?

What else if anything would you suggest for PCT?

I'll be using a really good multi vit and probably Triflex for the old creaky joints.

Cheers.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Nice spreadsheet mate, that's what I call planning.

So the kit I ordered was put together as a 9 week kit, I'm assuming there's only enough Test to run 9 weeks then.

Here's the breakdown of all compounds :

1 x TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE ICN by Galenika (Size: 10 amps)
8 x TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE ICN by Galenika (Size: 1 amp)
4 x CLOMID 50mg by EGIS, GREECE (Size: 12 tabs)
1 x NOLVADEX 10mg by HEXAL (Germany) (Size: 100 tabs)
1 x DANABOL 10 MG by Balkan Pharmaceuticals (Size: 50 tabs)
3 x Winstrol (STROMBAFORT) 50 MG by Balkan Pharmaceuticals (Size: 50 tabs)

I follow what your saying as far as the Winny goes, if I'm only using Test for 9 weeks ( assuming I cant stretch it out ) I guess I could run the Danabol weeks 1-4, then the Winny weeks 5-12 or 6-13 ?

If I alter the cycle length at what point should I start using the Clomid and Nolva?

What else if anything would you suggest for PCT?

I'll be using a really good multi vit and probably Triflex for the old creaky joints.

Cheers.

Test E 1-9
Dbol 1-4
Winny 8-11
Nolva/Clomid 12-16

 

[TheeBC]

Thanks thunder, I put about 10-11 months of research, I was looking right at the dbol and winstrol in my face and thought....Water w/ mass and lean gains w/ anti estro effects right before PCT. and told him, I have a cheaper substitute.

I hate regurgitating this but...the cycle cost me 1300 bucks.

But there isn't one cheap, knockoff,decent supplement in there. Its all TOP NOTCH.

Its a little intense for a first cycle but, oh well, im an intense person

Nos, has got ur back too. Listen to the bra!

 

[hurlockiv]

Test E 1-9
Dbol 1-4
Winny 8-11
Nolva/Clomid 12-16

So your saying dont use all the Winny, just a short 3 week cycle ? or 3 weeks at a higher dose?

 

[TheeBC]

I think 4 weeks would be fine, its not injectable right? its tabs?

 

[hurlockiv]

Yeah it's tabs, 50mg each it says. Get 50 tabs too so I guess I'll have some left for my next cycle :thumbsup:

 

[nosnmiveins]

8 through 11 = 4 weeks ...u can extend it 6 weeks and make it 6-11

 

[hurlockiv]

8 through 11 = 4 weeks ...u can extend it 6 weeks and make it 6-11

Err, yeah sorry:fool2: I have a headache from working in the sun all day, I cant do math right now.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I have a question about the superdrol.

How did you run the superdrol? how much and for how long, how many cycles, what was your post cycle therapy.......

please and thank you.

 

[hurlockiv]

I have a question about the superdrol.

How did you run the superdrol? how much and for how long, how many cycles, what was your post cycle therapy.......

please and thank you.

I used Oxevol, a Pro Hormone, Superdrol clone. I ran 2 boxes which = 8 weeks.

It's not available anymore, they keep changing the names and putting out new products/alternatives.

Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30

Amount Per Serving:
Vitamin B12 12mcg 200%
Vitamin C 60mg 100%
Vanadyl 4mg
2a-Dimethyl-17B-Hydroxy-5a-Ethiocholan-3-one 12mg
Anabolic Multiplier Proprietary Complex 2,500mcg (Bergamottin, Hoelen, Bupleurum)
Gonad Axis Proprietary Complex 2,000mcg (Tribulus 40%, Kudzu, Maca, Dodder Seed)
Liver Assist & Antioxidant Proprietary Blend 4,100mcg (Milk Thistle, Green Tea, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, Ginger)
Red Kidney Bean 100mg

Unfortunately my PCT was ****. I used Nolvadex but didnt have enough, then I used some other over the counter stuff. My hormones finally levelled out but I got some nasty, painful gyno. I was screwed financially for a while so I couldnt get any Letro which sucked because the tits were getting more painful every day.

I learned the hard way.....HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED BEFORE STARTING A CYCLE.

The Letro kicks ass though, gyno's almost gone, about ready to taper off it with Nolvadex and prep for the upcoming cycle.

 

[hurlockiv]

Off topic....68 Camaro super Sport ? that it in the Avy ?

 

[dkkon1]

BTW 3BC Winistrol is far from the most toxic oral... maybe a little more research

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Off topic....68 Camaro super Sport ? that it in the Avy ?

yeah thats a 68,,,,,thats the trifecta that keeps me going.......in life and in the gym.

68 396 5 speed car, no papers, believe to be true big block car though
78 305 original cali turd
05 fatboy softail, FLSTFI not stock.

 

[hurlockiv]

why not,,,,,thats the trifecta that keeps me going.......in life and in the gym.

68 396 5 speed car, no papers, believe to be true big block car though
78 305 original cali turd
05 fatboy softail, FLSTFI not stock.

:woohoo: I love them there old Camaros, monsters.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

damn bro, 8 weeks is a long time for that shite!

were the gains good at least?

 

[hurlockiv]

Thank's for the input so far fellas, really appreciate it.

Now im off to tear my back apart at the Gym !

 

[Kristofer68SS]

:woohoo: I love them there old Camaros, monsters.

yeah me too....... my first camaro was a 78 turd like the one i have now........ bought it just for that reason........

i got the 68 in 04',,,,,,,I got really luck on that one.......

corvette bronze, 5 speed tremec, 12 bolt eaton and the 396 big block, car has around 5000 miles on it since restoration............4000 which are mine.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

you should love the test cycle btw.........

good luck bro.......

 

[hurlockiv]

damn bro, 8 weeks is a long time for that shite!

were the gains good at least?

Yeah 8 weeks was not smart but the gains were great, went from 215lbs to 230lbs and was strong as an ox, then got sick as hell round New Years, was down for about 6 weeks, antibiotics, no appetite, dehydrated. Dropped down to 208lbs.
Wanted to chop my nuts off I was so pissed.

Finally though after some real hard work im back to 220lbs and my strength is higher than when I was @ 230lbs.

Thanks mate, Im stoked for the cycle, hoping to really take it to the next level.