Need some tips for this stagnation

[peakgainz]

Hey ppl,

I want some help firguring what to do for my sitatuation. I'm currently cutting for 12weeks,currently in the eight week.
I started this cut after 4weeks after a pct,wasn't in my best shape lost some size due to some life issues.
I think I started the cut around 190lbs around 15% at max! 4 weeks in the cut, I was going alright, slight progressive deficit. Reached 182.5lbs around 13%. At that point I wanted to add 2 weeks and call it a mini cut to start bulk sooner. But as I reached the sixth week, I reach 180.5lbs but I started noticing definition loss and like if I was gaining fat and water wich is weird even my training partner told me your abs disappeard looks like you added fat.
In my "eightest" week now , (LOL the balance stopped working for last 2 weeks,Now I bought new one) I weigh 180lbs looks like a 13% or even 14% surely muscle is lost too, I upped my calories this week to 1900-200kcal/day was 1700-1800 for last two week in hope of seeing of how things will change.But not unfortunately.

Things to consider:
I do cheat meal each saturday, But seriously last weeks I over ate can be around 4000kcal in the day
Ichanged my workouts around 5th week, due to Heavy sets of 3-5reps hit me hard on recovery, I changed to 8-12 hypertrophy but still lifting "heavy" and I can handle workouts not so awful.
In the cycle I was doing I was around 190lbs 10%. good vascularity and muscle size.
I keep my proteins around 190-200g, Fat 55-60g, Carbs from 200 to 150-100g now

Now I still have 3-4 weeks to go for this cut I'm unsure what I should try, These bad results are starting to annoy me willing to go staightly for a bulk.

I want some professional advice for this situation. Also, Any ideas on how should I proceed with diet after the cut, I'm thinking of bumping Kcals To 2000kcals raising fats to 80g then adding each week 25-50g of carbs each week until surplus.

 

[jrock645]

Drop the carbs and sub with fat, either stop or limit those cheat meals- one meal of something you like but still not too far from your normal cals. How much cardio are you doing?

 

[peakgainz]

Drop the carbs and sub with fat, either stop or limit those cheat meals- one meal of something you like but still not too far from your normal cals. How much cardio are you doing?

I tried and dropped carbs below 100g,t rainning suffered a bit.But I can do it. Yes I'm thinking of not supriassing my Maintenance Calories on cheat days, Around 2600-2800Kcal total.
For cardio this week I do, Tabat 4times/week post workout 4min high intensity circuit. jogs 2-3mins but just as a way of transport not surpassing 20-25min total per jog. 1 30min HIIT cardio on one day. And in the rest day, If I'm feeling alright, I can try to do a cardio depends on recovery.

 

[HIT4ME]

Well, if you were 190 at 15% that means you had 161.5 pounds of lean mass.

If you lost 7.5 pounds and got to 182.5 but were 13% bodyfat then you had about 159 pounds of mass. That means you lost almost 1/3 of your mass as lean mass.

That seems like aggressive muscle loss during a cut, even on an extreme diet. If you are in a reasonable deficit and eating 190-200 grams of protein, that should not be that high.

What does your training and diet look like exactly? Can you lay out your entire plan?

My first guess is that you are losing mass you gained on cycle.

 

[peakgainz]

Well, if you were 190 at 15% that means you had 161.5 pounds of lean mass.

If you lost 7.5 pounds and got to 182.5 but were 13% bodyfat then you had about 159 pounds of mass. That means you lost almost 1/3 of your mass as lean mass.

That seems like aggressive muscle loss during a cut, even on an extreme diet. If you are in a reasonable deficit and eating 190-200 grams of protein, that should not be that high.

What does your training and diet look like exactly? Can you lay out your entire plan?

My first guess is that you are losing mass you gained on cycle.

Yes, there is some noticeable lean mass loss along with water retentoin.

I think so about that mass on cycle.

This is the entire plan for now:

Monday : Chest and tri + Tabata Diet: 1800Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Tuesday: Legs+Abs Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Wednesday:Back and bi + Tabata Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
thursday: Shoulders + Tabata Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Friday: HIIT 30min + Abs Diet Diet: 1700-1800Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Saturday: Total Body High reps circuit workout Cheat Meal day , I don't track Calories
Sunday : Yoga or cardio or full rest depends on recovery Diet around 2000Kcal

This is the plan I'm doing now I switched to it last 3 weeks after higher intensity workouts, I throw jogs here in there for 20-25min max 2days/week.

Here is what I will be doing this week and similar to last 2 weeks but with slightly higher calories.

Thank you !

 

[HIT4ME]

Yes, there is some noticeable lean mass loss along with water retentoin.

I think so about that mass on cycle.

This is the entire plan for now:

Monday : Chest and tri + Tabata Diet: 1800Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Tuesday: Legs+Abs Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Wednesday:Back and bi + Tabata Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
thursday: Shoulders + Tabata Diet: 1900Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Friday: HIIT 30min + Abs Diet Diet: 1700-1800Kcal amining for 190-200g Protein and 55g Fat rest is carbs
Saturday: Total Body High reps circuit workout Cheat Meal day , I don't track Calories
Sunday : Yoga or cardio or full rest depends on recovery Diet around 2000Kcal

This is the plan I'm doing now I switched to it last 3 weeks after higher intensity workouts, I throw jogs here in there for 20-25min max 2days/week.

Here is what I will be doing this week and similar to last 2 weeks but with slightly higher calories.

Thank you !

Ok, so when you say HIIT and Tabata, are these different? In my thought process Tabata is a form of HIIT but maybe you have different workouts/set ups?

I think you are losing muscle at a fast rate if your numbers are accurate - it's not a TON yet, but losing 1/3 of your weight as muscle is unusual, especially at that high a caloric and protein intake. You are doing a lot right, at least according to your plan. Are you sticking to that plan? Are you weighing, measuring and tracking?

The fact that you had abs and no longer do, in spite of losing weight, signals to me that your numbers are supported at least as a sign of direction.

What did you run for your cycle? What was your PCT? I have to believe that most of the issue lies in there...

Also, that's a lot of HIIT/Tabata. Even 3x a week can be brutal even. I don't know what you do for volume on your weight workouts, but it sounds like you may be working out as if you are still on cycle, and you maybe should back off a little on the volume.

When you are lean, and you are relatively lean, you have lower levels of leptin. Dieting can lower leptin. But excessive exercise can really tank leptin. So leanish + excessive exercise on a diet = ranked leptin.

One thing people do not realize is that circulating leptin actually protects muscle mass. This may be a factor for you, but I still think your cycle/PCT info may reveal the most insight. Did you get blood work before/on/after?

 

[peakgainz]

Ok, so when you say HIIT and Tabata, are these different? In my thought process Tabata is a form of HIIT but maybe you have different workouts/set ups?

I think you are losing muscle at a fast rate if your numbers are accurate - it's not a TON yet, but losing 1/3 of your weight as muscle is unusual, especially at that high a caloric and protein intake. You are doing a lot right, at least according to your plan. Are you sticking to that plan? Are you weighing, measuring and tracking?

The fact that you had abs and no longer do, in spite of losing weight, signals to me that your numbers are supported at least as a sign of direction.

What did you run for your cycle? What was your PCT? I have to believe that most of the issue lies in there...

Also, that's a lot of HIIT/Tabata. Even 3x a week can be brutal even. I don't know what you do for volume on your weight workouts, but it sounds like you may be working out as if you are still on cycle, and you maybe should back off a little on the volume.

When you are lean, and you are relatively lean, you have lower levels of leptin. Dieting can lower leptin. But excessive exercise can really tank leptin. So leanish + excessive exercise on a diet = ranked leptin.

One thing people do not realize is that circulating leptin actually protects muscle mass. This may be a factor for you, but I still think your cycle/PCT info may reveal the most insight. Did you get blood work before/on/after?

I think after I adjusted my workout and diet regimen. I feel better and I'm not as tired from working out. Tabata for now is not that hard for me I can handle 4 mins.But that's true,I feel like it might be adding some water bloat to my physique.

for workouts usually 4-5 exercise for big muscles and shoulders 3sets(sometimes dropsets) and 3 exercise for biceps and trcieps 3 sets. Not a big deal.

For the cycle, I run Transdermal Test(last 10weeks),Tbol(8weeks),Lgd(12weeks) AND MK677(in pct also) for 14 weeks total. i didn't do bloods. In pct, I ran only Nolvadex 40/40/40/20. Tbol made me feel amazing. I liked it a lot. After cycle, I lost noticeable "good weight" as I was told I did so for the first 2 weeks. Third to sixth week no big drop in the scale but there was some fat gains. I didn't feel so bad during pct.

The issue might be with the cycle and also the third to sixth week in cut, as I was doing more volume and intensity than now(but That can't justify that thirdlean mass loss.

But, last Saturday I noticed I might be in the right track again, I noticed better definition and I did last week , abs are there but still not as I wanted.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think after I adjusted my workout and diet regimen. I feel better and I'm not as tired from working out. Tabata for now is not that hard for me I can handle 4 mins.But that's true,I feel like it might be adding some water bloat to my physique.

for workouts usually 4-5 exercise for big muscles and shoulders 3sets(sometimes dropsets) and 3 exercise for biceps and trcieps 3 sets. Not a big deal.

For the cycle, I run Transdermal Test(last 10weeks),Tbol(8weeks),Lgd(12weeks) AND MK677(in pct also) for 14 weeks total. i didn't do bloods. In pct, I ran only Nolvadex 40/40/40/20. Tbol made me feel amazing. I liked it a lot. After cycle, I lost noticeable "good weight" as I was told I did so for the first 2 weeks. Third to sixth week no big drop in the scale but there was some fat gains. I didn't feel so bad during pct.

The issue might be with the cycle and also the third to sixth week in cut, as I was doing more volume and intensity than now(but That can't justify that thirdlean mass loss.

But, last Saturday I noticed I might be in the right track again, I noticed better definition and I did last week , abs are there but still not as I wanted.

You ran the Nolva for 4 weeks? Did you start your cut when you started PCT? Was your deficit more extreme in the beginning of the cut?
hairygrandpa may have some thoughts on the cycle. I know relatively little about those things.

 

[Whisky]

Based on all the above (and some personal experience) you may not have been fully recovered from your cycle when you started cutting. Test levels take a hit on a cut and if you weren’t fully recovered that’s a long time to have some suppression - did you notice a strength decline?

The other likely issue is cortisol - cortisol tends to spike in and after pct, combine that with a cut and high cortisol levels would definitely lead to fat gain.

If things are starting to improve then your body has probably adjusted and your hormonal balance come back in line. A cortisol control product may be worth looking at (lean extreme, reduce xt etc)

 

[peakgainz]

HIT4ME I started the cut 4weeks after pct. I read in most places that 4 weeks after pct, One can do a cut. The deficit wasn't extreme but I think the igher intensity and higher volume might have contributed to some lean mass also.

Whisky I think so, cortisol is higher too from training,some almost 7hours sleep nights and cycle. Since I might have gained fat besides water around abdomen and in face . That's mostly due to cortisol I suppose. Right now I have Ashwagandha 1.5% and1g Vit C tabs, Do you know if this might help with cortisol control?

Btw, I noticed some reduce in size in balls size around fourth week in cut, still not fully recovered in size as it was before cycle. I might be looking for a product that will help test boosting too.

Edit: To be honest, My pyshique atm looks like I lost all muscle gained during the cycle.Idk if when I will be on surplus again, The glycogen retention will help the physique looks close to where the cycle left it. I doubt it

 

[Whisky]

HIT4ME I started the cut 4weeks after pct. I read in most places that 4 weeks after pct, One can do a cut. The deficit wasn't extreme but I think the igher intensity and higher volume might have contributed to some lean mass also.

Whisky I think so, cortisol is higher too from training,some almost 7hours sleep nights and cycle. Since I might have gained fat besides water around abdomen and in face . That's mostly due to cortisol I suppose. Right now I have Ashwagandha 1.5% and1g Vit C tabs, Do you know if this might help with cortisol control?

Btw, I noticed some reduce in size in balls size around fourth week in cut, still not fully recovered in size as it was before cycle. I might be looking for a product that will help test boosting too.

Edit: To be honest, My pyshique atm looks like I lost all muscle gained during the cycle.Idk if when I will be on surplus again, The glycogen retention will help the physique looks close to where the cycle left it. I doubt it

Personally I’ll always either cut (or recomp) on cycle and just maintain off or wait 3 months after a cycle if running anything really suppressive (id just finished trest for example).

 

[hairygrandpa]

You ran the Nolva for 4 weeks? Did you start your cut when you started PCT? Was your deficit more extreme in the beginning of the cut?
hairygrandpa may have some thoughts on the cycle. I know relatively little about those things.

My guess: no loss of lean mass but glycogen.

 

[HIT4ME]

Based on all the above (and some personal experience) you may not have been fully recovered from your cycle when you started cutting. Test levels take a hit on a cut and if you weren’t fully recovered that’s a long time to have some suppression - did you notice a strength decline?

The other likely issue is cortisol - cortisol tends to spike in and after pct, combine that with a cut and high cortisol levels would definitely lead to fat gain.

If things are starting to improve then your body has probably adjusted and your hormonal balance come back in line. A cortisol control product may be worth looking at (lean extreme, reduce xt etc)

This is what I am thinking. PCT wasn't long enough, went into a deficit too quickly, etc.

I wonder if additional Nolva may be helpful, but like you said, without blood work and with him seeming to turn a corner, it may be overkill.

HIT4ME I started the cut 4weeks after pct. I read in most places that 4 weeks after pct, One can do a cut. The deficit wasn't extreme but I think the igher intensity and higher volume might have contributed to some lean mass also.

Whisky I think so, cortisol is higher too from training,some almost 7hours sleep nights and cycle. Since I might have gained fat besides water around abdomen and in face . That's mostly due to cortisol I suppose. Right now I have Ashwagandha 1.5% and1g Vit C tabs, Do you know if this might help with cortisol control?

Btw, I noticed some reduce in size in balls size around fourth week in cut, still not fully recovered in size as it was before cycle. I might be looking for a product that will help test boosting too.

Edit: To be honest, My pyshique atm looks like I lost all muscle gained during the cycle.Idk if when I will be on surplus again, The glycogen retention will help the physique looks close to where the cycle left it. I doubt it

Yes, higher volume AND high intensity is not always a great thing.

Vitamin C and Ashwagandha will help control cortisol. I honestly take 5-6 grams of vitamin C again. It won't be the most powerful cortisol control, but I think it is a good start.

Phosphitydlserine and/or reduce xt are good options too.

Evomuse Ammo is honestly the best cortisol control IMO. But.. hard to come by.

My guess: no loss of lean mass but glycogen.

This crossed my mind too...but he has measurements that suggest a loss of lean mass and he has lost weight but lost his abs as well? Glycogen loss would decrease muscle size...but he isn't really going low carb.

What do you think about the PCT angle?

 

[hairygrandpa]

This crossed my mind too...but he has measurements that suggest a loss of lean mass and he has lost weight but lost his abs as well? Glycogen loss would decrease muscle size...but he isn't really going low carb.

What do you think about the PCT angle?

Yes, his PCT was weak -and the cut 4 weeks after may did the rest.

 

[peakgainz]

Thank you all for chiming in. Appreciated the feedbacks.

Things are still not going as I wanted it to be and holding a good amount of water that is hiding definition big time if that's not fat . But I still have 2 weeks to go in it with taking 2g of VIT C and Ashwagandha as I have them in hand. Then, I will rise calories by 200-300Kcals each week to lean bulk and hopefully I will recover some of the muscle lost post cycle quickly.
Anything that could help for that?

I learnt the lesson no cutting until feeling recovered very well. But I really hope I can regain some of the lost size.