Is tren gyno permament like estro gyno?

[Heybros1]

If one starts lactating on a 19 nor like tren or deca and doesnt use caber and just deals with the sides does this form of gyno go away after the cycle ends or is a surgery kinda thing like estro related gyno?

 

[Renew1]

Are you lactating?

 

[Heybros1]

Nope

 

[Renew1]

Nope

Hey, Hey!
That's a plus!

Then....aspire to NOT lactate. And if you do lactate, try to handle it appropriately..... Instead of just getting by.

The scenario you mentioned never has to happen to you.

 

[Heybros1]

I know about caber im just curious if it would subside after the cycle? It seems some dudes just deal with it

 

[Renew1]

I know about caber im just curious if it would subside after the cycle? It seems some dudes just deal with it

Ohhh.
My understanding is.... Once you get real gyno, it's there to stay.
Signs of the gyno can sometimes be reduced. And the condition leading to gyno can be treated.

But to rid yourself of true gyno, surgery is required.

 

[Heybros1]

Well thats the question becsuse tren is a different type of gyno

 

[Renew1]

Well thats the question becsuse tren is a different type of gyno

I'll be watching for other reponses, but no matter what causes the gyno.... If it is really gyno, that's a bad situation.

Maybe somebody with first hand gyno experience will chime in.

 

[Old Witch]

Well I’ve had some slight fluid if I squeezed the nipple after using a couple of things but it went away by the next day. That wasn’t tren or 19nor related though, that was dht related. Specifically, rebound related.

 

[Whisky]

If one starts lactating on a 19 nor like tren or deca and doesnt use caber and just deals with the sides does this form of gyno go away after the cycle ends or is a surgery kinda thing like estro related gyno?

If one is lacating on a 19nor it’s due to high prolactin......

High prolactin can cause estrogen to increase (I think by decreasing androgen receptors but you’d have to check that) which can lead to gyno but by far more likely is that lactation is just down to prolactin and fcuk all to do with gyno.....best I know anyway

 

[Thejoggernot]

Well I’ve had some slight fluid if I squeezed the nipple after using a couple of things but it went away by the next day. That wasn’t tren or 19nor related though, that was dht related. Specifically, rebound related.

Can you comment a little more on this ? I am guessing your E was just crashed from the cycle ? What were you running, what was your PCT and what advice would you give us to avoid? Thanks

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

sorry friends.. gyno is gyno.. you may show signs of lactation on 19 nors and puffy nips ect, however if you develope actual gyno it is what it is.. there is no difference in outcome, only what caused it to start.

 

[Heybros1]

Ok lets put this another way.. I dont get gyno if on high test and dbol no ai needed but if i start lactating off a nor does that go away when 19 nors are stopped?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Ok lets put this another way.. I dont get gyno if on high test and dbol no ai needed but if i start lactating off a nor does that go away when 19 nors are stopped?

The milk glands will reduce to normal after stopping -but gyno may already have developed.
I lactated twice on 19-nors and got gyno once. Ralox took care of of the gyno after the cycle. My last trest-ace cycle was with caber and that went well. Now I'm on NPP without caber -but 75mg/d proviron instead. No lactating. DHT curbs prolactin, use Masteron or Proviron and have caber on hand.

 

[Old Witch]

Can you comment a little more on this ? I am guessing your E was just crashed from the cycle ? What were you running, what was your PCT and what advice would you give us to avoid? Thanks

Well when you take strong dht based drugs, yes, your estrogen is lowered, then when ceasing the drug it rebounds, and side effects can develop.

 

[Old Witch]

Well when you take strong dht based drugs, yes, your estrogen is lowered, then when ceasing the drug it rebounds, and side effects can develop.

I’ve had it happen a couple of times after superdrol, dmz and even ostarine. Always went away after a day, didn’t add anything to pct to fix it, because it went away. No puffiness. Nothing, just itchy nips, and if I squeezed them hard there was just a tiny amount of clear fluid. That’s it. On cycle I’ve only ever had some slight itching.

 

[BarryScott]

Would aromasin prevent rebound gyno? I've heard of people using it for PCT anyway, either in addition to - or instead of - SERMs because it supposedly increases testosterone production similarly to SERMs, which other AIs do not.

 

[Renew1]

The milk glands will reduce to normal after stopping -but gyno may already have developed.
I lactated twice on 19-nors and got gyno once. Ralox took care of of the gyno after the cycle. My last trest-ace cycle was with caber and that went well. Now I'm on NPP without caber -but 75mg/d proviron instead. No lactating. DHT curbs prolactin, use Masteron or Proviron and have caber on hand.

hairygrandpa, would you say that your gyno is now completely gone, or that it is just reduced to the extent that it appears to be gone?

I've seen Dr's statements that it is impossible to get rid of (matured) gyno without surgery.
But I've never had to try a gyno reduction protocol, so I'm really interested in your answer.
Dr's statements and scientific papers hold a lot of weight, but first hand accounts are (of course) very convincing when they come from someone respected in the community (such as yourself).

 

[hairygrandpa]

hairygrandpa, would you say that your gyno is now completely gone, or that it is just reduced to the extent that it appears to be gone?

I've seen Dr's statements that it is impossible to get rid of (matured) gyno without surgery.
But I've never had to try a gyno reduction protocol, so I'm really interested in your answer.
Dr's statements and scientific papers hold a lot of weight, but first hand accounts are (of course) very convincing when they come from someone respected in the community (such as yourself).

There are studies showing that even with childhood acquired gyno, Ralox could in some cases reverse it to a certain degree.
It is "gone" as long as I watch my e2 and prolactin. I guess once you had gyno, it comes back rather quickly when you do another cycle without precaution. You also get a bit paranoid not knowing if its boob fat or gyno, when you are not as lean (me, damn). This paranoia leads me to crash my estrogen fairly often.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Would aromasin prevent rebound gyno? I've heard of people using it for PCT anyway, either in addition to - or instead of - SERMs because it supposedly increases testosterone production similarly to SERMs, which other AIs do not.

Yes. Rebound gyno is due to e2, aromasin for the win.

We were talking prolactin, don't assume it does anything when tits start lactating. There is no prolactin rebound, as prolactin leaves the body fairly quick after cessation of a short estered 19-nor.

 

[Renew1]

There are studies showing that even with childhood acquired gyno, Ralox could in some cases reverse it to a certain degree.
It is "gone" as long as I watch my e2 and prolactin. I guess once you had gyno, it comes back rather quickly when you do another cycle without precaution. You also get a bit paranoid not knowing if its boob fat or gyno, when you are not as lean (me, damn). This paranoia leads me to crash my estrogen fairly often.

Thanks for the info.

I have (for the most part) preferred to be a bit bulkier (so less lean). However, I recently fell in Love with a (much younger) young lady, who seems to prefer a little leaner look (although she does appreciate my "muscles" LOL).
It will be interesting for me to see how I look in leaner form, and also how much of my bulk is there by choice (versus being difficult to lean down).

 

[BarryScott]

Yes. Rebound gyno is due to e2, aromasin for the win.

We were talking prolactin, don't assume it does anything when tits start lactating. There is no prolactin rebound, as prolactin leaves the body fairly quick after cessation of a short estered 19-nor.

Yes, I'm still trying to get to grips with how prolactin sides work. I think I've got a good grip of estrogen, but wasn't entirely sure on how best to deal with rebound, post cycle. Seems like there's conflicting ideas on prolactin and 19nors, some people say you need caber, others DHT and then some people say you just need to keep estrogen in check and prolactin won't be an issue.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Yes, I'm still trying to get to grips with how prolactin sides work. I think I've got a good grip of estrogen, but wasn't entirely sure on how best to deal with rebound, post cycle. Seems like there's conflicting ideas on prolactin and 19nors, some people say you need caber, others DHT and then some people say you just need to keep estrogen in check and prolactin won't be an issue.

From my experience:
-few people are sensitive to 19-nor induced prolactin sides
-IF you are sensitive to prolactin, AI does not do much, even high dosed letro did not prevent anything in my case
-There is the bro-science, that if you control e2, you also control prolactin = not true (My guess is, people not sensitive to prolactin assumed this)
-DHT and also Caber (bromo, prami) works -but, I'm sure you can't supplement enough DHT in a higher dosed 19-nor cycle, you would to have to deal with sides of high dosed androgens.
-a combo of high estro, high prolactin and high progesterone is a sure way to tits -but lowering only one -or two of them, does not mean you are safe.
(besides, lowering progesterone/progestin is tricky, winstrol supposedly can)

 

[hairygrandpa]

Just to add: If you are lactating and glands are swollen, don't get the idea to take a serm like nolva. It will not work!
It taps the e2 receptors -but does nothing for prolactin.
Taking proviron/masteron while already lactating is also no good idea. Start it with the 19-nor.
Also, don't worry about prolactin, if you are not taking a 19-nor -or a PH that converts to one -or was derived from.

 

[BarryScott]

Any indicators that prolactin is getting out of control rather other than lactating or getting bloods done?

Seems like it would be easy to mess up on a 19nor cycle by thinking your sides were estro related and upping your AI when you actually need to take caber.

 

[Old Witch]

Any indicators that prolactin is getting out of control rather other than lactating or getting bloods done?

Seems like it would be easy to mess up on a 19nor cycle by thinking your sides were estro related and upping your AI when you actually need to take caber.

Loss of erections and lactation.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Any indicators that prolactin is getting out of control rather other than lactating or getting bloods done?

Seems like it would be easy to mess up on a 19nor cycle by thinking your sides were estro related and upping your AI when you actually need to take caber.

In my case:
Nipples do not enlarge and get puffy, because I used an AI too. They start to get sensitive first, little later they ache and get hard. They start to hurt pretty bad. A week later you can feel the milk glands swell up behind the nipples. Squeeze a little bit -and milk shoots out against the mirror, its a WTF moment! Later on surrounding tissue fills up, giving the appearance of teenager techno tits.

 

[Old Witch]

In my case:
Nipples do not enlarge and get puffy, because I used an AI too. They start to get sensitive first, little later they ache and get hard. They start to hurt pretty bad. A week later you can feel the milk glands swell up behind the nipples. Squeeze a little bit -and milk shoots out against the mirror, its a WTF moment! Later on surrounding tissue fills up, giving the appearance of teenager techno tits.

Wow that’s some pretty intense gyno.

In my case it was itchiness, no swelling, no puffiness, hardness, and then the slightest leaking... then nothing, all symptoms just vanished. No itch, no leak, nothing.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Wow that’s some pretty intense gyno.

In my case it was itchiness, no swelling, no puffiness, hardness, and then the slightest leaking... then nothing, all symptoms just vanished. No itch, no leak, nothing.

Sounds like a sudden spike of prolactin -not like prolonged elevated values.

 

[Old Witch]

Sounds like a sudden spike of prolactin -not like prolonged elevated values.

I would figure that’s about right. Though I did have the classic prolactin related sexual malfunction for several weeks before that. And, at least for me, that’s the only thing that does that. Even high estrogen for me makes my boners and orgasms crazy strong. But prolactin going up, and it’s like right when I should be busting it all goes limp....

 

[Old Witch]

I would imagine my levels of prolactin were slightly elevated and then upon cessation of exogenous dht there was an extremely high spike which lasted a short time.

 

[RickyBlobby]

A legit bewb it there to stay

 

[Higz1998]

The milk glands will reduce to normal after stopping -but gyno may already have developed.
I lactated twice on 19-nors and got gyno once. Ralox took care of of the gyno after the cycle. My last trest-ace cycle was with caber and that went well. Now I'm on NPP without caber -but 75mg/d proviron instead. No lactating. DHT curbs prolactin, use Masteron or Proviron and have caber on hand.

Did the raloxifene help while on the 19-nors or do you have to come of them for it to be effective?