On cycle heart support

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Been looking at supps for maintaining cv health while on cycle.
What is the consensus on:
DIM (balancing estrogen as well)
Talos v2
Toco 8
Grape seed extract
Niacin

All at the same time or as part of pct?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Been looking at supps for maintaining cv health while on cycle.
What is the consensus on:
DIM (balancing estrogen as well)
Talos v2
Toco 8
Grape seed extract
Niacin

All at the same time or as part of pct?
Talos V2 is amazing used it many times, have bloods with and without, it's a god send.
 

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Actually it was one of your posts that led me to it . Cheers
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Talos V2 is amazing used it many times, have bloods with and without, it's a god send.
Haha glad to hear it I don't rep for anyone so no hidden agenda just try to help with my anecdotes since I'm one of the rare few that gets bloods very consistently
 

criticalbench

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Terminalia Arjuna
Nitrates
Celery Seed Extract
L-Theanine
 
pogue

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I take Source Naturals Heart Science which has a lot of good ingredients in it that are clinically dosed (for the most part)

You can see a full list here

I also take 4g of garlic a day and around 300mg of potassium. I try and watch my salt intake, as well as caffeine and stim intake. Loading up on magnesium can also help a great deal.

Effects of Oral Magnesium Supplementation on Blood Pressure Among Healthy or Hypertensive Adults: A Meta-analysis of Randomized Double-blinded Placebo-controlled Trials

Results: In total, 33 eligible trials involving 2,500 participants were included. Mg supplementation at a median dose of 368 mg/day elemental Mg for a median duration of 3 months led to significantly reduced supine BPs by 2.08 mmHg (95% CI: 0.49, 3.68) for systolic BP and 1.83 mmHg (95% CI: 0.77, 2.90) for diastolic BP compared with the placebo. Overall, Mg supplementation significantly increased serum Mg concentrations by 0.05 mmol/L (95% CI: 0.03, 0.07 mmol/L). Our time- and dose-response analyses showed that Mg supplementation with 200 mg/day for 1 month was sufficient to significantly raise serum Mg and lower supine BPs (all P-values < 0.0001). However, higher doses (≥ 300 mg/day) and longer durations (≥ 2 months) were needed to achieve maximal effects. On average, per 0.1 mmol/L increment in serum Mg was associated with a supine DBP reduction of 2.26 mmHg (95% CI: 0.27, 4.26 mmHg), while the linear or curvilinear relationship with supine SBP was non-significant. In addition, there were non-significant changes in standing BPs (all P-values > 0.05).

Conclusions: Our meta-analysis showed that Mg supplementation significantly lowered supine BPs which were significantly related with elevated serum Mg levels. Our findings support an antihypertensive effect of Mg, although future large well-designed randomized controlled trials with longer follow-up, selection of participants with low Mg levels, and ambulatory BP monitoring are warranted.


Talos V2 is amazing used it many times, have bloods with and without, it's a god send.
What's Talos V2?

Low dose aspirin
Cialis
Hawthorne Berry
Everything I've read about low dose aspirin has been negative for young people who haven't had previous heart conditions. Definitely talk to your doctor before that one. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/daily-aspirin-therapy/art-20046797

How is Cialis supposed to help? I checked Wikipedia and it says they sell it in another form called Adcirca for pulmonary arterial hypertension. But, like low dose aspirin, I would talk to a doctor first before adding that to your regiment. Seems a bit pricey though, unless you can get it as a generic, but still there are probably cheaper options,

Clinical Pharmacology (method of action) of Adcirca

Everyone using AAS, PHs, DSs, or SARMs, should have a blood pressure monitor

I try to take my pulse rate on regularly and my Omron 10 Series Wireless Upper Arm Blood Pressure Monitor (Model #BP786) which is a very nice monitor, incidentally. (It was rated #1 by Consumer Reports) It will sync all your reading with your phone and then store them on the cloud where you can send them to your doctor. I'd highly recommend anyone using AAS to have a BP monitor because androgens are known to raise BP to a large degree.
Without knowing if you have high or low BP, you shouldn't be taking drugs to treat it.

Terminalia Arjuna
Nitrates
Celery Seed Extract
L-Theanine
Terminalia Arjuna is another one I've heard a lot of good things about. A friend as taking this *I think* (will confirm later) and said his BP had dropped significantly.

https://examine.com/supplements/terminalia-arjuna/

Nitrates are going to be hard to come by OTC now that everyone is sueing each other over them and the FDA is cracking down them, Theanine, and any sort of relaxing agent is also going to help, like phenibut, kava, etc should lower BP.

Celerary seed seems to be more of a diuretic and I don't see any info on examine.com showing it's helpful for cardiovascular problems.
https://examine.com/supplements/Celery+seed+extract/






(I didn't watch these all the way through, so I can't endorse everything said in the videos)

Life Extension also has some good overviews of conventional and natural methods to treat HPB

The American Heart Association also has some how to read blood pressure readings, what they mean and what to do about them

And again, there a bunch more on Google: https://www.google.com/#q=american+heart+association+blood+pressure

I wanted to update this post with some quotations from William Llewellyn's Anabolics E-Book Edition on cardiovascular health during cycles. This is a great book, btw, and anyone who uses or is thinking of using AAS, PHs/DSs or SARMs should pick up a copy. The Kindle version is only $10, but you can buy a hardcover book for a little more.

Cardiovascular System

The use of anabolic/androgenic steroids in supratherapeutic (and often therapeutic) doses can have a number of adverse effects on the cardiovascular system. This may be noticed in several areas including unfavorable
alterations in serum cholesterol, a thickening of ventricular walls, increased blood pressure, and changes in vascular reactivity. In an acute sense these drugs are admittedly very safe. The risk of an otherwise healthy
person suffering a heart attack from an isolated steroid cycle is extremely remote. The risk of stroke is also extremely low. When these drugs are abused for long periods, however, their adverse effects on the
cardiovascular system are given time to accumulate. An increased chance of early death due to heart attack or stroke is, likewise, a valid risk with long-term steroid abuse. In order to better understand this risk, we must look specifically at how anabolic/androgenic steroids affect the cardiovascular system in several key ways.

Cholesterol/Lipids

Anabolic/androgenic steroids use can adversely affect both HDL (good) and LDL (bad) cholesterol values. The ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol fractions provides a rough snapshot of the ongoing disposition of plaque in the arteries, either favoring atherogenic or anti-atherogenic actions. The general pattern seen during steroid use is a lowering of HDL concentrations, which is often combined with stable or increased LDL levels.Triglyceride levels may also increase.The shift can be unfavorable in all directions. Note that in some cases, the total cholesterol count will not change significantly. The total cholesterol level can, therefore, give a false representation of uncompromised
lipid health. Almost invariably the underlying HDL/LDL ratio will decrease.While this ratio should return to normal following the cessation of steroid intake, plaque deposits in the arteries are more permanent. If unfavorable shifts in
lipids are exacerbated by the long-term use of steroidal compounds, significant damage to the cardiovascular
system can result. Over time, plaque deposits may begin to narrow and
clog arteries. Anabolic/androgenic steroids are most consistent in their lowering of HDL levels. This adverse effect is mediated through the androgenic stimulation of hepatic lipase, a liver enzyme responsible for the breakdown of HDL
(good) cholesterol. With more hepatic lipase activity in the body, the favorable (anti-atherogenic) HDL cholesterol particles are cleared from circulation more quickly, and their levels drop. This is an effect that seems to be very pronounced at even modest supratherapeutic dosage levels. For example, studies with testosterone cypionate
noted a 21 % drop in HDL cholesterol with a dosage of 300 mg per week. Increasing this dosage to 600 mg did not
have any significant additional effect, suggesting that the dosage threshold for strong HDL suppression is fairly low.
Oral steroids, especially c-17 alpha alkylated compounds, are particularly potent at stimulating hepatic lipase and
suppressing HDL levels. This is due to first pass concentration and metabolism in the liver. A drug like stanozolol may, therefore, be milder than testosterone with regard to androgenic side effects, but not when it comes to cardiovascular strain. A study comparing the effects of a weekly injection of 200 mg testosterone enanthate to only a 6mg daily oral dose of stanozolol demonstrates the strong difference between these two types of drugs very wel1. After only six weeks, 6mg of stanozolol was shown to reduce HDL and HDL-2 cholesterol levels by an average of 33 and 71 %
respectively. HDL levels (mainly the HDL-3 subfraction) were reduced by only 9% in the testosterone group. LDL
cholesterol levels also rose 29% with stanozolol, while they dropped 16% with testosterone. Esterified injectable
steroids are generally less stressful to the cardiovascular system than oral agents. * It is also important to note that estrogens can have a favorable impact on cholesterol profiles. The aromatization of testosterone to estradiol may, therefore, prevent a more dramatic change in serum cholesterol. A study examined this effect by comparing the lipid
changes caused by 280 mg of testosterone enanthate per week, with and without the aromatase inhibitor testolactone. Methyltestosterone was also tested in a third group, at a dose of 20 mg daily, to judge the comparative effect of an oral alkylated steroid. The group using only testosterone enanthate in this study showed a small but not significant decrease in HDL cholesterol values over the course of the 12-week investigation. After only four weeks, however, the group using testosterone plus the aromatase inhibitor displayed an HDL reduction of an average of 25%. The group taking methyltestosterone experienced the strongest HDL reduction in the study, which dropped 35% after four weeks. This group also noticed an unfavorable rise in LDL cholesterol levels.
The potential positive effect of estrogen on cholesterol values also makes the issue of estrogen maintenance something to consider when it comes to health risks. To begin with, one may want to consider whether or not estrogen maintenance drugs are actually necessary in any given circumstance. Are side effects apparent, or is their
use a preventative step and perhaps unnecessary? The maintenance drug of choice can also have a measurable
impact on cholesterol outcomes. For example, the estrogen receptor antagonist tamoxifen citrate does not
seem to exhibit anti-estrogenic effects on cholesterol values, and in fact tends to increase HDL levels in some
patients. Many individuals decide to use tamoxifen to combat estrogenic side effects instead of an aromatase inhibitor for this reason, particularly when they are using steroids for longer periods of time, and are concerned
about their cumulative cardiovascular side effects.
There are about 5 pages on the cardiovascular side effects in the first few chapters alone, so I don't want to infringe Bill's copyright and copy and paste the whole thing in here, so I recommend picking up a copy of the book for more information. I will, however, copy the other short paragraph he has on BP.

Blood Pressure

Anabolic/androgenic steroids may elevate blood pressure. Studies of bodybuilders taking these drugs in supratherapeutic doses have demonstrated increases in both systolic and diastolic blood pressure readings.
Another study measured the average blood pressure reading in a group of steroid users to be 140/85, which was compared to 125/80 in weight lifting controls not taking steroids. Hypertension, or consistently high blood pressure at or above 140/90 for either systolic or diastolic measures, has been reported in steroid users/113 although in most cases the elevations are more modest. Increased blood pressure may be caused by a number of factors, including increased water retention, increased vascular stiffness, and increased hematocrit. Aromatizing or highly estrogenic steroids tend to cause the greatest influences over blood pressure, although elevations cannot be excluded with non-estrogenic anabolic/androgenic steroids. Blood pressure tends to normalize once anabolic/androgenic steroids have been discontinued.
 
Dma378

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Long term aspirin supplementation should definitely consult a Dr. For short-term cycle support, the thinning effects are definitely beneficial for when RBC count is high.

Cialis lowers BP. Again, short-term use at a low dose for a cycle isn't very risky.

Recommending actual BP meds is not something to mess with. I would have left that link out.

Long-term hypertension concerns and cycle support are very different discussions.
 
pogue

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Long term aspirin supplementation should definitely consult a Dr. For short-term cycle support, the thinning effects are definitely beneficial for when RBC count is high.

Cialis lowers BP. Again, short-term use at a low dose for a cycle isn't very risky.

Recommending actual BP meds is not something to mess with. I would have left that link out.

Long-term hypertension concerns and cycle support are very different discussions.
Unless you have a source for short term low dose aspirin therapy being beneficial in people without previous cardiovascular problems, or are using AAS, I'm going to have to call that out as broscience. Low dose aspirin therapy can have a rebound effect that can increase risk of blood clotting if you stop abruptly.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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cadence is my go to for heart health. its pretty cheap, and lowers my bp quite well
 

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