My thougths on young usage of AAS/PH

[size]

My thoughts on young usage of AAS/PH

Just to start, these are my feeling at beginning AAS or PH use at a young age. You may disagree or agree with me, but I think this is an important topic to discuss candidly and honestly. Some of this has been cut from a post I made at bb.com so you may have read some of it.

My first thought is that this compounds should not beused by anyone under 21. However, this age is not set in stone and may even be a little low. Teenagers should NOT use them unless under the advice of a doctor. The tale "but I am 19 and finished growing b/c I have not gotten any taller since i was 16" is not a valid reason/excuse for usage. Height is not an end all determining factor in how developed the body is. A good indictation of this is to look at the facial structure of a 25yr. man and a 18yr. man. Personally, I never grew another inch or even half an inch since I was 16, and trust me this is unfortunate. However, the facial development/maturity between 16, 18, 21 and now is obvious. Of course, facial structure is not the best indicator either but I think it helps get my point across.

A commonly stressed idea also is to achieve your full natural potential before moving towards AAS and PH. Now, I feel this is valid but also very obscure. Think about it, the idea of natural potential is very odd. Who really knows what an individuals natrual potential is? A geneticist who has lots of free time and funds/grants for research allocations, and then only maybe.

However, stressing natural potential is a good idea. For one is it a good deterrent for younger bodybuilders from using AAS/PH. The body is continually growing and changing especially in the teen years. I, like many, feel that it is best not to introduce exogenous hormones to the body while it is making these changse. In my opinion, it is wise to allow the body to reach a stage of "homeostasis" before switching to chemical aids. The body tends not to even reach this level of hormonal balance until 21-25(of course this range varies). Consequently premature usage is unwise. With an adult, fully developed hormally and physically, I truly do not see a huge problem with using AAS/PH before reaching full natural potential b/c as I stated who really knows that point. Lets be honest, as the body ages it certainly does not make gains any easier, but you most likely do know what works better.

I also believe that striving for full natural potential is important again as a deterrent from guys who simply want a quick fix. Leaping from 160lbs to 230lbs. may make an individual pleased for a period but when that weight begins to fall off b/c the individual never had a full understanding/grasp on training, nutrition, etc and the idea of what his natural potential may have been, then what is the next step? Proabably a perpetual situation of weight gain from AAS use and weight loss afterwards. Not a pleasant thought. If you start anabolics at a younger age, I am willing to bet that most in the future will fell they need anabolics to make changes. This is setting yourself up for failure. You started too young and have convinced yourself that you will only grow with the aid of AAS.

Most importantly (again for me) is striving to achieve the idea full natural potential before using AAS as to avoid a fall in the future. I believe that many may use AAS as a crutch once they have experienced the changes that AAS can bring forth. This crutch is the idea that they need AAS to make gains. If the individual would have waited, one could have seen the changes that can come w/o AAS but rather thru proper training, nutrition, etc.

I have witnessed many of these events first hand. In high school, I had friends who tried AAS. Whenever, I see them now(at most once a year if I visit) they tell me how they just can't make gains like they did then and they ask me how I have been able to change so much for the better. I want to scream at them "Well of course you can't, years after the fact you still do not know how to train and eat b/c you never learned due to drug usage". Instead, I try to stay positive and give simple pointers that anyone should know. I did not really get introduced to bodybuilding until I reached college. While training/conditioning myself for better athletic performance, I encountered bodybuilding and AAS usage. At the time, I was not going for a bber's body but rather just to increase leg strength for speed. immediately, though, I saw young men literally swell up and walk around like the king of th gym only to either stall out or reduce to their previous size. This is when I realized how these compounds intended to aid growth could be hamrful in the long run, a crutch in a sense.


I am sure some will think I am incorrect, and maybe I am. But I do know that the mental maturity that takes place from you teen years and up changes the way you look at things. Let's face it, most young men think they are indestructable, but the weakest part of them is their minds.

In the end, each individual will do as they see fit. Hopefully, you will look at the bigger picutre and decide what is right for you.

 

[labrad]

I basically agree w/ everything you said.

 

[Longdog]

Great Post. That should be required reading for new members of this site. Although I doubt anything can change the mind of a dumb 150 lb 19 year-old hell bent on getting to 175 by Spring Break.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Excellent read bro, I also agree with Longdog on the mindset of uneducated youngsters. They will usually use gear without reaching their natyral peak. I saw this a lot in my high school football team, but coaches don't mind watching some puny kid grow 20 pounds over the summer. BTW, most of these guys with exception of 2 don't even look big when I see them because they never learned the importance of diet, rest, and proper training.

 

[BMZ]

great post bro.....

yeah I knew a guy on the football team who was on gear too and when I see him now it's just sad he looks so skinny, he never really trained or ate properly.

 

[PC1]

I generally agree with most of what is being said here. The single most important factor is knowing as much as one can about androgens and their known effects on the body.

But does this "taboo" apply equally to every teenager? I don't think so. I would leave in the taboo category, any young, misguided "wannabe", or even serious teen atheletes who have not approached the subject of androgens with the same degree of seriousness as their college prep biology or chemistry class.

But what about a teen who is 17 or 18, has competed in local or even state wide bodybuilding contests, has placed well, and truly has some potential to compete beyond the local level? Assume they're dedicated, disciplined, and exhibit a mental maturity beyond their age, evidenced by their disciplined and committed lifestyle. Assume also they have realistic aspirations to compete in, say a teenage Mr. America contest. Should they fall into the same category?

I don't think it's for any of us to say frankly. Our lives are our own to live as we wish.

Take another high school kid who's equally dedicated and talented as a football player. How about a fullback or tailback, a position where speed and strength combined with developed skills are the prerequisite to success. Yet he's competing with other kids his age who are using PH's or AS. The additional speed and strength may mean the difference in his stats to be eligible for a college scholarship that without, this kid probably won't be going to college.

Are we really going to sit in judgment of teens like this because they're opting for that extra edge?

I don't.

Mind you I don't condone AS or PH for anyone. I just think it's a personal choice. And like everything else in life that potentially has serious repurcussions, I agree it behooves us all to not jump in all stupid and ignorant. And let's face it, some guys will experience that rare side that only affect 1 person in 10,000, and any one of us could unfortunately be that 1 person despite careful reading and researching. But sports like pro football and bodybuilding are full of guys right now who got into taking androgens when they were aspiring teens. Who knows if they'd be where they are now without androgens. And yeah, who knows if they'll still be healthy when they turn 50. But that's everyone's own choice.

On the issue of 'when' to commence using AS or PH when someone is in their 20's:

I have different thoughts than most. I think if a guy gets into bodybuilding late, say in their mid 20's but really has gifted genetics and thinks he may compete someday, I agree that it would probably be best for him to try to achieve as much of his natural potential as he can first before diving into the androgen pool. Because yes, it will allow him/her to get that much more out of androgens if and when they do so.

But most guys are not going to compete. Most guys here are never going to compete and have zero aspirations to do so. Nothing wrong with that at all. Yet many of these same guys genetically have so little to work with that even after 2 or 3 years of dedicated education, training and dieting, no one even realizes they work out when viewed wearing street clothes. Most guys don't want to wait 10 to 15 years to reap the benefit of recognition they're hungry for. In a case like this, within say 2 or 3 years of natural training, and again, assuming they've spent enough time researching androgens to have a good understanding of the risks involved, I feel that's as good a time as any for them to jump in.

For guys like that, the educated use of androgens becomes a tool for them to realize their natural potential MORE QUICKLY. This group ALSO are the guys who tend to keep more of their gains post cycle than guys who have already reached the lion's share of what their endocrine systems can support. The latter group, post cycle, oftentimes doesn't keep as much of their gains. Not that they're not already in great shape, but if your endocrine system naturally can't support the level of strength and size androgens have given you on cycle, you're not going to keep much of it post cycle in spite of a well planned PCT. So if guys with average or below average genetics want to cycle after 2 or 3 years of natural training, they're the ones who are in the best position to keep their gains post cycle and so get the most bang for their buck. And if they don't get too crazy about their expectations, thinking they're going to keep mega muscle mass after doing several cycles, REASONABLE and EDUCATED androgen usage becomes a very effective tool to achieve their natural potential much more quickly.

Once again, I don't condone AS or PH for anyone. But I clearly understand WHY guys want to get into it. And I don't judge anyone one way or another. Legal ramifications aside, to use or not to use androgens should remain the choice of the EDUCATED user.

This board being a valuable resource and means to that end.

Be well guys.

 

[size]

Nice PC1.

I think it is great to have an open and candid discussion on the topic.

I agree with and disagree with some of your statments. Mainly , I disagree with any teens every using AAS, unless under the care of or at the direction of a doctor. For me the circumstances are irrelevant due to the possible negative repercussions.

On the other hand, you point on being EDUCATED on the matter is very important to me and I completely agree. Too many are willing to are willing to dive in head first without checking how deep the water is.

Ultimately though, you and I are correct that it is the decision of the users, and not anyone else.

 

[PC1]

Nice PC1.

I think it is great to have an open and candid discussion on the topic.

I agree with and disagree with some of your statments. Mainly , I disagree with any teens every using AAS, unless under the care of or at the direction of a doctor. For me the circumstances are irrelevant due to the possible negative repercussions.

On the other hand, you point on being EDUCATED on the matter is very important to me and I completely agree. Too many are willing to are willing to dive in head first without checking how deep the water is.

Ultimately though, you and I are correct that it is the decision of the users, and not anyone else.

Size........

Number 1, this is a great forum to have discussions like this. And I very much enjoy sharing experiences and learning the experiences of others here. Much to be learned.

Number 2, I can't imagine a doctor or health care practitioner in their right mind prescribing androgens for an aspiring teen athelete? Any reputable doctor just wouldn't do it. But we're not talking about taking androgens for health reasons, we're talking about androgens for the sake of atheletic performance.

I threw out the example of an aspiring teen bodybuilder with aspirations of competing in a teenage Mr. America because I know someone who, about 15 years ago, did just that. He won the AAU teenage Mr. America at the age of 19. He went on to compete professionally. So he's made a career out of it, continues training today, owns (or did last I knew anyway) his own successful Gold's gym franchise...... you get the picture. He's parlayed his interest in bodybuilding, including AS usage into a successful career.

I say this, NOT to encourage usage by wreckless and irresponsible teens with naive, wild eyed dreams of becoming ripped monsters, leading them to fame and fortune in just a handful of AS cycles.

But in his case, he educated himself, weighed the risks, and accomplished specific goals without any "apparent" adverse affects to his long term health.

Now I realize he's the 1 person in 1,000 or even in 10,000 teenagers who have managed to translate his bobybuilding into a successful career. Nonetheless, it underscores my point that usage is really on a case by case basis. I see no reason to say that "across the board, teens should NOT take androgens under ANY circumstances" simply for "health" reasons. For "health" reasons, no one has any business taking androgens unless under the care of a doctor or health care practitioner. We all take them at the risk and expense of health, rather than to enjoy better health, in order to fulfill our own dreams and desires.

 

[LakeMountD]

i agree with a lot of that.. however there are some times where i think some ph use can come in handy.. for instance my case.. im about to play division 1 football.. yeah thats one step below nfl. they dont play.. when you have a 250 lbs solid muscle linebacker heading you way you want to be as strong as possible.. i mean there are tims where i do think its necessary..

i feel if your 18 or older and you have EVERYTHING down i dont see a problem.. but i have not many people who have a lot of it down.

 

[PC1]

LakeMountD .......

I envy you. Football is a great sport.

When you look at the size of guys playing in the NFL today versus 30-40 years ago, there's no comparison. I don't care what they say about testing for androgens, in the end it's BS. Today's guys are bigger, stronger and faster. If it was possible to put one of today's better NFL teams (say, the Patriots )on the field with, say the Dolphins behind Bob Griese, Larry Csonka and Jim Kick, the Dolphins would be pushed around like a team of Division III college kids. The Dolphins certainly were a phenomenon in their day. And while training and diet have surely raised the bar of performance, it is ANDROGENS that have ushered in a paradigm shift in athletic performance in sports like football. Sure as shite today's pros are taking androgens and then some. And I agree that guys you're playing with and against are also taking them.

We can debate whether or not androgens disrupt the "purity" of athletic competition. But so long as the sport "pretends" to be serious about stopping usage among atheletes, you're a step behind guys who are using androgens. Especially in football, you'd need to be that 1 in 10,000 genetic freak just to be able to recuperate week in and out playing against guys who are using androgens.

Best of luck with everything, make us proud

Keep us updated on how you're doing please.

 

[size]

LakeMount.............good luck with football. College is lots of fun.

Let's be honest though, the step down from professional to D1 is quite a BIG step. I played D1 and I was always humored by how many guys neglected studies b/c they thought they were going to play pro. Big mistake. Not implying you are going to do this, but just a reminder to study up.

An education in life will get you thru more doors than your sports past and/or your physique ever will.


I understand your thought, but I still disagree with it. Size differences are amazing. However, you approach (which I disagree with but does not make it wrong) could make everyone feel that way so all that ulitmately happens is the drug use becomes priority over skill, talent , and hard work.

You should watch Rudy. Hard work pays off.

 

[LakeMountD]

LakeMount.............good luck with football. College is lots of fun.

Let's be honest though, the step down from professional to D1 is quite a BIG step. I played D1 and I was always humored by how many guys neglected studies b/c they thought they were going to play pro. Big mistake. Not implying you are going to do this, but just a reminder to study up.

An education in life will get you thru more doors than your sports past and/or your physique ever will.


I understand your thought, but I still disagree with it. Size differences are amazing. However, you approach (which I disagree with but does not make it wrong) could make everyone feel that way so all that ulitmately happens is the drug use becomes priority over skill, talent , and hard work.

You should watch Rudy. Hard work pays off.

i definitely agree that it is a huge step from D1 to pro.. but it is also a HUGE HUGE step from high school to D1.. hell i weighed 142 lbs as a wide receiver at 5 10 in high school and i was ranked top receiver in three counties.. i could out shake, out run, and make you look absolutely stupid lol.. i also had good hands.. but it is a whole new game at the D1 level.. hell if i was positive no one was on any androgens i wouldnt do them either.. but lets be realistic..

 

[PC1]

Size...........

That's good advice to LakeMountD. I'd also add that education is only the start. It needs to continue throughout one's career. I saw a great billboard once that read:

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll be run over if you're just sitting there."

Androgens will never replace genetics and God given talent that, through hard work, has been honed into on field skills. All androgens do is raise the bar for strength, speed and reactions.

In the end, I don't believe sports like football are really concerned with drug testing over and above putting on a public face to make the average Joe "think" they're doing something about it. There's just too many guys using androgens who never get caught. There are ways of beating the tests, atheletes are taught the tricks to beat whatever particular test is being administered, and the public appearance of drug testing is upheld. In reality, I don't believe sports like football are any more serious about androgen testing than professional wrestling.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Good luck Lake, I had a tough time at San Jose State ( they may suck, but they have fine ass undergrad trainers ). Big difference from JC ball. It just sucks for me cause I was only 5-11 and trying to play D-line, not everyone can play at that level, even some of the guys who work their ass off still won't smell the field.

BTW, I agree with you PC on those who have their stuff down and are competing at an elite level because there's a ton of cash involved in elite sports.

Also, the 1972 Dolphins get on my freakin nerves cause they still celebrate every time the last undefeated team loses. They couldn't even come within 2 touchdowns of beating the Michael Vick-less Falcons cause of the major changes in size and speed. They also have good strength coaches now a day, which I believe can make a difference.