You dont have to be sub 15% BF to cycle

RickyBlobby

RickyBlobby

Well-known member
Hey! Just wanted to start some shyte....kinda.

But seriously, a man at 25% BF.......Most would say, cut down to 15%, then do a cycle.......Why would he not cut down with at least some test and var/ tbol/ ANYTHING. Just think of how much more muscle you would have left going from 25% to 15% with steroids vs natty.

I'm being serious
 
People still do it,even though forum folks advise them not to. And their results are seriously awesome. I’ve never understood the reasoning except the assumption that all overweight people must have bad cholesterol and aromatize worse. Both aren’t necessarily true. I’d do it, if I got fat, I know that much.
 
Moving away from the science of whether you amoratize more or not I’d suggest a better reason is that someone at 25% can easily get to 15% with decent diet and nutrition. If they don’t have decent diet and nutrition they wouldn’t get as much from a cycle anyway and the risk reward ratio starts to skew.

My views always been that if your gonna mess with hormones then make sure you get the best possible upside, at 25% something fundamentally isn’t as it should be in nutrition or training and that should be sorted and bedded in first......

Just my view anyway
 
Someone at 25% should learn to diet and exercise before using steroids. Not to mention the risk for side effects is higher.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Hey! Just wanted to start some shyte....kinda.

But seriously, a man at 25% BF.......Most would say, cut down to 15%, then do a cycle.......Why would he not cut down with at least some test and var/ tbol/ ANYTHING. Just think of how much more muscle you would have left going from 25% to 15% with steroids vs natty.

I'm being serious
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I feel that everybody is a ****ing broscientist these days and comes up with the most rediculous ****. I don’t give a **** whether your 5 percent body fat or 20 percent. Anabolics build muscle tissue plain and simple.. Dave palumbo always stresses this fact. I feel like people that say to cut down naturally first before starting anabolics just want people to feel that they are not good enough to cycle plain and simple. Honestly sometimes taking something encourages that person to work harder whether it’s placebo or not..
 
bradleyt1 said:
I feel that everybody is a ****ing broscientist these days and comes up with the most rediculous ****. I don’t give a **** whether your 5 percent body fat or 20 percent. Anabolics build muscle tissue plain and simple.. Dave palumbo always stresses this fact. I feel like people that say to cut down naturally first before starting anabolics just want people to feel that they are not good enough to cycle plain and simple. Honestly sometimes taking something encourages that person to work harder whether it’s placebo or not..
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When you think about it Dave Palumbo would have to be one of the best people to listen to about the topic.
In a time of learning new ways he didn't just learn how to gain muscle and loose fat but he also worked out how to loose muscle and gain visceral fat.
 
bradleyt1 said:
I feel that everybody is a ****ing broscientist these days and comes up with the most rediculous ****. I don’t give a **** whether your 5 percent body fat or 20 percent. Anabolics build muscle tissue plain and simple.. Dave palumbo always stresses this fact. I feel like people that say to cut down naturally first before starting anabolics just want people to feel that they are not good enough to cycle plain and simple. Honestly sometimes taking something encourages that person to work harder whether it’s placebo or not..
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Seriously?

Fat people often have high BP, fugged up blood lipids and left ventricular hypertrophy (due to elevated BP). Taking roids on top of it is asking for trouble.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Seriously?

Fat people often have high BP, fugged up blood lipids and left ventricular hypertrophy (due to elevated BP). Taking roids on top of it is asking for trouble.
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at 15 percent body fat? Dude to the average person that’s still being in really good shape, but in bodybuilding not so much. Ofcourse don’t be obese and take anabolics I agree
 
Newth said:
When you think about it Dave Palumbo would have to be one of the best people to listen to about the topic.
In a time of learning new ways he didn't just learn how to gain muscle and loose fat but he also worked out how to loose muscle and gain visceral fat.
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He was also a monster in his prime almost 300lbs and still lean, so he I’m sure he knew a thing or two.
 
After seeing what anabolics can do when you finally make youself get off your fat ass and work for it ill never cut from anywhere without them again. Ive taken a couple hiatus's from training and let myself go for a bit. The older i get the harder it is to do with just diet alone. Not to mention the fact that my past opiate use wrecked my test levels so before getting on trt it was way harder. These pics are from after my last hiatus. I was disgusted with myself and hated who i had become. So i picked up some treats for a cycle and crushed the gym. If anything being on cycle makes me stick to my diet more to get the most out of my cycle. If you're 25% bf and dont know how to lift or excercise then yeah, learn how to lift and eat right and stick to it for a little bit to make sure you can. Then cycle if you decide you want to. But if you know how to lift, eat right, and be healthy while on anabolics then i dont see any reason you would have to wait and cut 10% bf before going on a cycleInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
 
Yeah, this is an arbitrary rule. Look at so many strongmen and some powerlifters. Most of them are over 25% body fat and they run insane cycles. I’m not seeing them drop dead left and right.

This would be like telling a college kid to learn how to study without adderall first. These are drugs/tools that we’re talking about. As long as somebody is informed about the advantages and risks of using the tool, then they should be mature enough to make a decision about it. Age is the more important factor when determining whether you should or shouldn’t use anabolics.
 
YoungThor said:
Yeah, this is an arbitrary rule. Look at so many strongmen and some powerlifters. Most of them are over 25% body fat and they run insane cycles. I’m not seeing them drop dead left and right.

This would be like telling a college kid to learn how to study without adderall first. These are drugs/tools that we’re talking about. As long as somebody is informed about the advantages and risks of using the tool, then they should be mature enough to make a decision about it. Age is the more important factor when determining whether you should or shouldn’t use anabolics.
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Strongmen are trained lifters. My fear is that a guy like THIS:

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reads this thread and jumps on cycle.
 
bradleyt1 said:
at 15 percent body fat? Dude to the average person that’s still being in really good shape, but in bodybuilding not so much. Ofcourse don’t be obese and take anabolics I agree
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15% is almost half of what we are talking about, so that makes no sense.

The idea is that if someone is asking about basic steroid advice and is 25% bodyfat, they need to figure out diet and training basics before using steroids.

Obviously if someone who has been training for years and already cycled wants to use steroids at 25% it is a completely different story.
 
christ83189 said:
After seeing what anabolics can do when you finally make youself get off your fat ass and work for it ill never cut from anywhere without them again. Ive taken a couple hiatus's from training and let myself go for a bit. The older i get the harder it is to do with just diet alone. Not to mention the fact that my past opiate use wrecked my test levels so before getting on trt it was way harder. These pics are from after my last hiatus. I was disgusted with myself and hated who i had become. So i picked up some treats for a cycle and crushed the gym. If anything being on cycle makes me stick to my diet more to get the most out of my cycle. If you're 25% bf and dont know how to lift or excercise then yeah, learn how to lift and eat right and stick to it for a little bit to make sure you can. Then cycle if you decide you want to. But if you know how to lift, eat right, and be healthy while on anabolics then i dont see any reason you would have to wait and cut 10% bf before going on a cycleInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
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How many cycles later was that bro? Looking swole.
 
bradleyt1 said:
He was also a monster in his prime almost 300lbs and still lean, so he I’m sure he knew a thing or two.
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Exactly my point. He was one of the biggest guys in his day and experimented to a level of perfecting PED use to the opposite end of the scale(Palumboism).
Although this is very unaesthetic it deserves a lot of respect IMO. He proved even at the top it is all a balancing act to fight against what the body wants to do for efficiency.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Strongmen are trained lifters. My fear is that a guy like THIS:

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reads this thread and jumps on cycle.
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The truth is yes they will work but you have a really good point.
It is why I stand on the lipids before liver side of the fence.
I always cringed the first few episodes of Biggest Looser for the cardiac reason also, with medical supervision they have a had a safe run.

If your blood and cardiac health are not good stay away until they are....what ever your size.
 
mikeymike85 said:
Dude that's impressive for one cycle.
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That was one cycle plus a couple months of consistency afterwards. Not just the cycle. But i wasnt much different just right after the cycle. Kept leaning up after cycle going more for aesthetics while keeping strength
 
I tried some basic 1/4 andro at 25% and had major BP issues.....which thank God stopped me from moving forward to gyno which I was sure to get. Anyone that would recommend someone take anything suppressive at more than 15% body fat is a total moron. The difference between in the bodys reaction to the same cycle at 15% vs 25% is unreal.
 
bigsmall said:
I tried some basic 1/4 andro at 25% and had major BP issues.....which thank God stopped me from moving forward to gyno which I was sure to get. Anyone that would recommend someone take anything suppressive at more than 15% body fat is a total moron. The difference between in the bodys reaction to the same cycle at 15% vs 25% is unreal.
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Dude, so many long term juice heads were over 15%. Look at offensive linemen in the NFL. Look at a lot of WWE guys. Are they less healthy then leaner juice heads? Maybe. But you can be really fit and have 25% body fat and use steroids without suffering extreme consequences.
 
YoungThor said:
Dude, so many long term juice heads were over 15%. Look at offensive linemen in the NFL. Look at a lot of WWE guys. Are they less healthy then leaner juice heads? Maybe. But you can be really fit and have 25% body fat and use steroids without suffering extreme consequences.
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It’s so hard for me to give an opinion because again look at powerlifters who are know to take massive doses of test halotestin etc amdbyet they literally have no definition whatsoever!
 
bradleyt1 said:
It’s so hard for me to give an opinion because again look at powerlifters who are know to take massive doses of test halotestin etc amdbyet they literally have no definition whatsoever!
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Doesn't mean they aren't taking huge amounts of an AI everyday in order to combat the estrogen sides, along with countless prescription drugs to counteract increased BP and Cholesterol.
 
I take loads of AI and SERM on cycle and I’m not fat at all. Plus my bp is borderline crappy just from genetics alone. Doesn’t mean I can’t use steroids safely.
 
I think OP’s point is that no matter who you are, lipids, bp, rbc, and sometimes liver enzymes are going to be skewed on drugs. Yet a lot of us seem to think that we are the only one’s who are allowed to benefit from ped’s simply because we stay in better shape. And obese or out of shape aren’t allowed bc it’s somehow sooooo much worse for them then it is for us “elite” few. It’s really not. All the guys that died last year in both sports were extremely low body fat. And imo regardless what we are told, steroids weren’t a big factor in either case anyways.
 
Matthersby said:
I think OP’s point is that no matter who you are, lipids, bp, rbc, and sometimes liver enzymes are going to be skewed on drugs. Yet a lot of us seem to think that we are the only one’s who are allowed to benefit from ped’s simply because we stay in better shape. And obese or out of shape aren’t allowed bc it’s somehow sooooo much worse for them then it is for us “elite” few. It’s really not. All the guys that died last year in both sports were extremely low body fat. And imo regardless what we are told, steroids weren’t a big factor in either case anyways.
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If steroids weren’t the major contributing factor then what do you think was? Recreational drugs?
 
I think, without a doubt, steroids were a major contributor to Rich Piana’s death. If he was a recreational drug user then that obviously played a part too depending on the drug of choice.
 
Just speculation and hearsay. The autopsy showed what anyone doing as much GH/Insulin as those two did would have for a heart.
 
Matthersby said:
Just speculation and hearsay. The autopsy showed what anyone doing as much GH/Insulin as those two did would have for a heart.
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Totally agree.... Piana has speculation over coke use, take a look at Hulk Hogan.
 
No one snorts pre workout. The average guy on one of these forums isn’t going to do 1/20th the amount of long term gear and growth that these professional athletes are doing, and I’m still not seeing even them drop dead due to undisputed steroid use alone.
 
Another fact is that low body fat will improve a cycles outcome. You don't build more muscles being more fat, it just makes most people run more cycles.
 
hairygrandpa said:
I bet he got hypo from Insulin, fainted and hit his head.
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Most likely what I thought and possibly the same with Dallas mccarver. I mean steroids in an insane excess will cause damage but it’s accumualtive over many years. Not like heroin and **** where you can take one bad batch and be your last one
 
I'm just saying, if I was 20-25% BF and I had the choice to cut down for the summer with or without PED's I would choose the PED route. Because I would retain way, way more muscle. Especially if you're cutting very fast, like 2-3lbs per week. You're gonna look much better if you use roids to get in shape. Even if its just 250mg of test + anavar. You'll look so much better in the long run and you should be able to stave off side effects from that mild a combo rather easily.
 
RickyBlobby said:
I'm just saying, if I was 20-25% BF and I had the choice to cut down for the summer with or without PED's I would choose the PED route. Because I would retain way, way more muscle. Especially if you're cutting very fast, like 2-3lbs per week. You're gonna look much better if you use roids to get in shape. Even if its just 250mg of test + anavar. You'll look so much better in the long run and you should be able to stave off side effects from that mild a combo rather easily.
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I do think there is a distinction between someone who knows good nutrition and training and is 25% and someone who is 25% without having ever nailed that stuff down.

To me cutting to 15% or below natty at least demonstrates a decent grasp of the basics which means the user will get nearer to maximum benefits from the cycle.

Someone who is aiming to get down from 25% for the first time probably has some gaps in training or nutrition that will make the cycle less effective......

I just believe in trying to get the best risk reward ratio (in anything, not just ped use). If anyone plays poker its the same as only playing hands with a positive EV
 
That is understandable
 
Whisky said:
I do think there is a distinction between someone who knows good nutrition and training and is 25% and someone who is 25% without having ever nailed that stuff down.

To me cutting to 15% or below natty at least demonstrates a decent grasp of the basics which means the user will get nearer to maximum benefits from the cycle.

Someone who is aiming to get down from 25% for the first time probably has some gaps in training or nutrition that will make the cycle less effective......

I just believe in trying to get the best risk reward ratio (in anything, not just ped use). If anyone plays poker its the same as only playing hands with a positive EV
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Well, when you put it like that....
All logical n shyt.
 
But proper diet + training + PED > proper diet + training. ;)
 
I completely agree with what everyone is saying, I believe anabolics will work at 10% or 20% body fat. But then the latest I’ve heard from Matt porter and other so called “gurus” is that you should be very lean to use anabolics because at a higher body fat your body will be less likely to put on muscle.. I just don’t know where these guys come up with these theories
 
bradleyt1 said:
I completely agree with what everyone is saying, I believe anabolics will work at 10% or 20% body fat. But then the latest I’ve heard from Matt porter and other so called “gurus” is that you should be very lean to use anabolics because at a higher body fat your body will be less likely to put on muscle.. I just don’t know where these guys come up with these theories
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That's not how it works. It makes it harder to actually notice a change in your body. Fat or skinny you still grow as much muscles if you have the same genetics, diet and training
 
At the end of the day, just enjoy making progress and being the best you can be and not stressing out, because I have been tot he point of obsessively weighing my food waiting up later at night to “get in all my meals” I mean honestly.. who the fu I wants to live like that?? Like there is so much more to life than carrying around Tupperware and a ****ing food scale and not eating out fear of not optimizeg muscle gains, but then again I was competing and wanted to be optimal. But that gets old real fast and life passes you by.. sorry about the rant I just would like to hear someone else’s thoughts on that topic
 
Chados said:
That's not how it works. It makes it harder to actually notice a change in your body. Fat or skinny you still grow as much muscles if you have the same genetics, diet and training
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Yes harder as I. You can’t visially see the progress as much because of subcutaneous water and fat accumulation. Whereas when your contest ready any little thing you do shows up right away. But who enjoys walking around shredded? I like to enjoy eating and still having a life, especially if I’m not making money as a model or competitor
 
bradleyt1 said:
Yes harder as I. You can’t visially see the progress as much because of subcutaneous water and fat accumulation. Whereas when your contest ready any little thing you do shows up right away. But who enjoys walking around shredded? I like to enjoy eating and still having a life, especially if I’m not making money as a model or competitor
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I actually do enjoy my diet. I do high fat low carbs and I carb load during the weekend without counting calories. I mean I have an idea but I definitely don't eat the exact same and I stay lean. It's all about getting your own diet to work and that's hard and can take time but I feel you, most people will struggle and I don't blame them for enjoying life the way they want to.
 
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