Unanswered Winstrol/Anavar cycle (And Cardarine GW)

Harishusain

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Alright guys, I've decided, now that I've found a pharma grade source, to do my first hardcore cycle. I have experience with milder compounds like 1-Andro, Epiandro, 4-Andro. Now I'm looking to use some real gear. Here's my proposed cycle :

Winstrol: 0/30/30/40/40/40
Anavar : 30/30/40/40/50/50
GW : 20/20/30/30/30/30

(No test base because no plans of pinning, it won't be convenient for me, but please recommend something effective like Dermacrine!)

PCT:

Nolva: 20/20/20/20
Clomid: 25/25/0/0
Aromasin: 0/0/25/25/12.5/12.6

Let me know what you guys think! I have a few questions as well :

1. Winstrol and Anavar, worth stacking? Both are orals.
2. If I do, should I be working up to running full doses for both (i.e. 50mg each) or try and keep them on the lower side (eg. 30mg each)?

3. I've seen literature on Cardarine improving cholesterol values, would this be helpful on cycle? Also, would it enhance fat loss, or be rendered useless as the gear is already attaching directly to the receptors?

4. Is Ralox preferred over Nolva to break up any gyno on cycle? Is gyno even possible with such dry compounds?

5. Thoughts on starting SERM in the last two weeks of the cycle to stimulate LH/FSH and bridge into PCT and taper off ?

6. Will have it on hand , but do I need an AI for this cycle? For instance to regulate E2 levels if i get a gyno flare up and end up taking nolva on cycle ?

Any other advice or guidance would be highly appreciated!
Cheers !
 
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Harishusain

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Bumping because I only have a few days to ask someone travelling back home to carry my ancillaries etc with them !
 

Nac

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Ive run winstrol and var together before, only for 3 weeks though (not due to any health concerns, thats just how long my kcal deficit happened to last). Really liked it. Prefer sdrol, though.
 

Jeremyk1

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Wow you have a lot here.

1. Shouldn’t be an issue if you tolerate both okay. I’ve heard of people doing it, but it’s not common. Obviously with stacking orals, you’ll need to keep an extra close eye on liver and kidney values and such.

2. Typically when you stack compounds, you can get away with taking less of each. If possible, I’d start a bit low and work up, see how it treats you.

3. I’ve seen some guys recommend Cardarine specifically for this purpose. Also, some gear can tend to have a negative impact on endurance, Cardarine can offset that. It can enhance fat loss, but most reports I’ve seen on it say the effect is usually pretty small. It works differently from androgens, so while the effects may be overshadowed, it won’t be competing for receptors.

4. I see lots of guys like Ralox over Nolva for gyno. Nolva knocked out a tiny flare up I had, so either should do fine if you get from a good source.

5. It won’t hurt, but you probably won’t see much benefit either. While still dosing androgens, the LH boost won’t be huge. That said, I usually start up my SERM before finishing a cycle to give it a few days or a week to start building up before I stop the compounds. I can’t really say if that helps that much, but it’s what I do.

6. I wouldn’t do an AI on this cycle. It’s already dry, you could mess up joints or something. I’d definitely have it on hand though, in case of a rebound effect.

If you haven’t run either compound before, it would probably be best to try each individually first. Especially being new to real gear, a single compound should do plenty for you.

If you do want a test base you don’t have to pin, you can find trest transdermally. I wouldn’t mess with that until you’re ready to deal with some estrogen sides. I hear Max LMG works well also, you can take that orally and it’s not methylated, so it works well as a stacker.
 
Renew1

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Wow you have a lot here.

1. Shouldn’t be an issue if you tolerate both okay. I’ve heard of people doing it, but it’s not common. Obviously with stacking orals, you’ll need to keep an extra close eye on liver and kidney values and such.

2. Typically when you stack compounds, you can get away with taking less of each. If possible, I’d start a bit low and work up, see how it treats you.

3. I’ve seen some guys recommend Cardarine specifically for this purpose. Also, some gear can tend to have a negative impact on endurance, Cardarine can offset that. It can enhance fat loss, but most reports I’ve seen on it say the effect is usually pretty small. It works differently from androgens, so while the effects may be overshadowed, it won’t be competing for receptors.

4. I see lots of guys like Ralox over Nolva for gyno. Nolva knocked out a tiny flare up I had, so either should do fine if you get from a good source.

5. It won’t hurt, but you probably won’t see much benefit either. While still dosing androgens, the LH boost won’t be huge. That said, I usually start up my SERM before finishing a cycle to give it a few days or a week to start building up before I stop the compounds. I can’t really say if that helps that much, but it’s what I do.

6. I wouldn’t do an AI on this cycle. It’s already dry, you could mess up joints or something. I’d definitely have it on hand though, in case of a rebound effect.

If you haven’t run either compound before, it would probably be best to try each individually first. Especially being new to real gear, a single compound should do plenty for you.

If you do want a test base you don’t have to pin, you can find trest transdermally. I wouldn’t mess with that until you’re ready to deal with some estrogen sides. I hear Max LMG works well also, you can take that orally and it’s not methylated, so it works well as a stacker.
Max LMG also has a high possibility of Estro sides.
 
Harishusain

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Ive run winstrol and var together before, only for 3 weeks though (not due to any health concerns, thats just how long my kcal deficit happened to last). Really liked it. Prefer sdrol, though.
SD for recomp? How does it compare to winstrol? Var takes 2/3 weeks to kick in though if I'm not wrong
 
Harishusain

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Wow you have a lot here.

1. Shouldn’t be an issue if you tolerate both okay. I’ve heard of people doing it, but it’s not common. Obviously with stacking orals, you’ll need to keep an extra close eye on liver and kidney values and such.

2. Typically when you stack compounds, you can get away with taking less of each. If possible, I’d start a bit low and work up, see how it treats you.

3. I’ve seen some guys recommend Cardarine specifically for this purpose. Also, some gear can tend to have a negative impact on endurance, Cardarine can offset that. It can enhance fat loss, but most reports I’ve seen on it say the effect is usually pretty small. It works differently from androgens, so while the effects may be overshadowed, it won’t be competing for receptors.

4. I see lots of guys like Ralox over Nolva for gyno. Nolva knocked out a tiny flare up I had, so either should do fine if you get from a good source.

5. It won’t hurt, but you probably won’t see much benefit either. While still dosing androgens, the LH boost won’t be huge. That said, I usually start up my SERM before finishing a cycle to give it a few days or a week to start building up before I stop the compounds. I can’t really say if that helps that much, but it’s what I do.

6. I wouldn’t do an AI on this cycle. It’s already dry, you could mess up joints or something. I’d definitely have it on hand though, in case of a rebound effect.

If you haven’t run either compound before, it would probably be best to try each individually first. Especially being new to real gear, a single compound should do plenty for you.

If you do want a test base you don’t have to pin, you can find trest transdermally. I wouldn’t mess with that until you’re ready to deal with some estrogen sides. I hear Max LMG works well also, you can take that orally and it’s not methylated, so it works well as a stacker.
Thanks for such a detailed response bro !


With reference to 1, Since Var isn't methylated and it apparently takes longer to kick in, I figured I can't frontload it two weeks before adding in the winny. But I also don't want to overdo it if it doesn't substantially affect results.

And 5, interesting article on this, apparently serum levels in the testes are much lower but still present while suppressed, so using a SERM on cycle is supposed to stimulate it enough to avoid total shut down and enable a quicker recovery.


Glad to finally hear someone who doesn't say I NEED a test base. I'm guessing I would need to run an AI on cycle with trest?
 
Smont

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If your anavar is real pharma anavar that dose is fine. If it's ugl and still real it's most likely under dosed. You may need to double the dose. I think 10mg of gw per day is plenty. And I see no benifit going over 20 other then to waste money. That's a good cycle for a little boost. Adding 250mg of test would double your results but your against it so... Dermacrine at like 5 pumps, 4andro at 3to500mg or some td trest will help. Doses are quite low and I see zero concern for liver problems. Even at double those doses I wouldn't be worried as long as your not partying outside the gym
 
Renew1

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Thanks for such a detailed response bro !


With reference to 1, Since Var isn't methylated and it apparently takes longer to kick in, I figured I can't frontload it two weeks before adding in the winny. But I also don't want to overdo it if it doesn't substantially affect results.

And 5, interesting article on this, apparently serum levels in the testes are much lower but still present while suppressed, so using a SERM on cycle is supposed to stimulate it enough to avoid total shut down and enable a quicker recovery.


Glad to finally hear someone who doesn't say I NEED a test base. I'm guessing I would need to run an AI on cycle with trest?
Anavar is Methylated.
 
Harishusain

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Orals start working day 1. They don't take time to kick in.
If your anavar is real pharma anavar that dose is fine. If it's ugl and still real it's most likely under dosed. You may need to double the dose. I think 10mg of gw per day is plenty. And I see no benifit going over 20 other then to waste money. That's a good cycle for a little boost. Adding 250mg of test would double your results but your against it so... Dermacrine at like 5 pumps, 4andro at 3to500mg or some td trest will help. Doses are quite low and I see zero concern for liver problems. Even at double those doses I wouldn't be worried as long as your not partying outside the gym
Sorry you're right, more appropriate to say that the effects are more pronounced at week 3?

All of it is legit pharma grade stuff. I've heard 4-Andro makes for a very weak test base. Maybe better to run Dermacrine or TD Trest, any brands you would recommend for the latter ?

I might have a couple drinks on weekends but just social drinking really, not looking to get wasted.

Thanks for the advice bro
 
Harishusain

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Anavar is Methylated.
My bad, I thought since it is 17-a-alkylated it wasn't. However it should still be much easier on the liver than winstrol from what I'm seeing. Just wondering if I should stick to winstrol for my first real gear run, or bite the bullet and stack them (which I'll only do if the reward is worth the risk really).
 

Nac

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SD for recomp? How does it compare to winstrol? Var takes 2/3 weeks to kick in though if I'm not wrong
Well, I was using the combo in a kcal deficit, the anticatabolic properties would be present within a couple of days. It took a bit longer for some effects to manifest but that is not surprising, and it doesnt necessarily indicate that the drugs are finally starting to work (again, its just when some of their effects become obvious to the eye etc).
 
chem.jr.

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How about Androgel as a test base ?
It would certainly work but how you gonna get it? Gotta have a script. If possible get testim. Much better. But if you end up w androgel then I would highly recommend pumping it all into another container and then adding 10% dmso by volume so if theres 60ml then put in 6ml dmso so it pentrates well.
 
Harishusain

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It would certainly work but how you gonna get it? Gotta have a script. If possible get testim. Much better. But if you end up w androgel then I would highly recommend pumping it all into another container and then adding 10% dmso by volume so if theres 60ml then put in 6ml dmso so it pentrates well.
Where I live getting Rx medication is a cakewalk if you know where to look. I'll look into testim, how would you suggest dosing with Winny ? And Aromasin OE3D I guess? Or should I go by feel, since winny would be killing estro anyway
 
Harishusain

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Well, I was using the combo in a kcal deficit, the anticatabolic properties would be present within a couple of days. It took a bit longer for some effects to manifest but that is not surprising, and it doesnt necessarily indicate that the drugs are finally starting to work (again, its just when some of their effects become obvious to the eye etc).
What combo, sorry?
From what I've seen you need to eat big on SD as a lot of that fullness comes from glycogen, wouldn't appear to be ideal for a cut, though any steroid is bound to help shed some fat in the process anyway I believe. I chose winstrol because it appears to interact directly with the receptors in the fat tissue . But I'm still on the fence as to whether I should just run Winny solo or with Var .
 
Smont

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Winny seems to give a boost in sex drive for most ppl. I also feel good mentally on it. Those are the 2 things ppl seem to look for in a test base. My purpose for 4 andro would be the estrogen conversion. Same with dermacrine and trest. Altho trest is not a first timer drug in my opinion. It has the possibility for bad sides. Estrogen is needed for muscle growth and for functioning properly. My thinking is the deeper you get into this cycle the less estrogen your going to have and you dont wanna kill it. I also would not use a ai on this cycle unless trest was added in. Just my 2 cents
 
Harishusain

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Winny seems to give a boost in sex drive for most ppl. I also feel good mentally on it. Those are the 2 things ppl seem to look for in a test base. My purpose for 4 andro would be the estrogen conversion. Same with dermacrine and trest. Altho trest is not a first timer drug in my opinion. It has the possibility for bad sides. Estrogen is needed for muscle growth and for functioning properly. My thinking is the deeper you get into this cycle the less estrogen your going to have and you dont wanna kill it. I also would not use a ai on this cycle unless trest was added in. Just my 2 cents
Have you ever run Winny without a test base? So you think 4Andro is weak enough not to cause estro issues stacked with Winny but strong enough to prevent it from crashing my estro levels?

Some people also use Epiandro as a test base, how do you think the two compare as a base?
 
Renew1

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Have you ever run Winny without a test base? So you think 4Andro is weak enough not to cause estro issues stacked with Winny but strong enough to prevent it from crashing my estro levels?

Some people also use Epiandro as a test base, how do you think the two compare as a base?
You'd be better off with the 4 Andro instead of Epiandro. Like he said, you'll likely need the Estro.
 
buakaw93

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I used Winny last year and loved it. As a test base I had used Trest and I recommend using it, 4-Andro is too weak
 
Renew1

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Trest is a side-heavy steroid. OP, I wouldn't get into that right now, if I were you. (Like Smont also recommended).
 
Rocket3015

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Good Read !
 
Harishusain

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Trest is a side-heavy steroid. OP, I wouldn't get into that right now, if I were you. (Like Smont also recommended).
From what I've seen I honestly wouldn't touch it right now, I'm not ready for it. How do you think Max LMG compares to 4 Andro and Trest as a base?
 
Renew1

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From what I've seen I honestly wouldn't touch it right now, I'm not ready for it. How do you think Max LMG compares to 4 Andro and Trest as a base?
I wouldn't use it as a Base personally. ... And it can bring Estro sides
 
Smont

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Have you ever run Winny without a test base? So you think 4Andro is weak enough not to cause estro issues stacked with Winny but strong enough to prevent it from crashing my estro levels?

Some people also use Epiandro as a test base, how do you think the two compare as a base?
Do not use epiandro with winny. Your just adding another super dry dht
 
Rocket3015

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How come a side effect is never Increased Penis Size ??
 
Harishusain

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Alright that's Max LMG and Trest ruled out. The more I read about winstrol only cycles, the more confused I am as to whether I should run it or not. I'm not looking for huge gains, I'd be very happy with a few pounds gained and a 4-5% drop in BF. Also being my first real AAS cycle I want to keep it simple. Im 6'0, 215lb at 12-13% BF.

Masteron is more of a cosmetic enhancer from what I see and Anavar is weaker than Winny. Some guys suggested S4 with Winny as a good stack?

And yes I will be logging here.
 
Harishusain

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Does anyone have experience stacking this compound with Primobolan? Thoughts/Experiences?
 
Cmseabee24

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Alright that's Max LMG and Trest ruled out. The more I read about winstrol only cycles, the more confused I am as to whether I should run it or not. I'm not looking for huge gains, I'd be very happy with a few pounds gained and a 4-5% drop in BF. Also being my first real AAS cycle I want to keep it simple. Im 6'0, 215lb at 12-13% BF.

Masteron is more of a cosmetic enhancer from what I see and Anavar is weaker than Winny. Some guys suggested S4 with Winny as a good stack?

And yes I will be logging here.
Anavar alone I personally think would be better than winstrol your not competing so why put your joints through all that stress. You can run anavar high and longer. The pumps are ridiculous. I think people underestimate Anavar or they aren’t getting legit anavar.
 
Harishusain

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Anavar alone I personally think would be better than winstrol your not competing so why put your joints through all that stress. You can run anavar high and longer. The pumps are ridiculous. I think people underestimate Anavar or they aren’t getting legit anavar.
How does it compare to winstrol in terms of fat loss? I was more attracted to winstrol for higher anabolic properties to go with.
 
Cmseabee24

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How does it compare to winstrol in terms of fat loss? I was more attracted to winstrol for higher anabolic properties to go with.
Anavar is great for pump and also maintaining muscle in a color if deficit. Personall I use to love winstrol until I tried legit var.
 
Smont

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Alright that's Max LMG and Trest ruled out. The more I read about winstrol only cycles, the more confused I am as to whether I should run it or not. I'm not looking for huge gains, I'd be very happy with a few pounds gained and a 4-5% drop in BF. Also being my first real AAS cycle I want to keep it simple. Im 6'0, 215lb at 12-13% BF.

Masteron is more of a cosmetic enhancer from what I see and Anavar is weaker than Winny. Some guys suggested S4 with Winny as a good stack?

And yes I will be logging here.
Your not dropping 5% body fat in 6 weeks while gaining muscle. That's a rediculous expectation
 

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Your not dropping 5% body fat in 6 weeks while gaining muscle. That's a rediculous expectation
Thats what I thought, too. But, but, if he were to maintain his current bodyfat weight (not %) whilst putting on lean tissue, its possible. Well, more possible. Otherwise nah, he aint losing pounds of bfat AND gaining lean tissue, at least not with winny.
 
Harishusain

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Unless you were completely new to bodybuilding or really fat
The focus is almost entirely on getting diced. Nutrition will be in slight deficit, any added muscle is a bonus really. Assuming training nutrition sleep are 100% what kind of results can be expected then in your opinion?

My intentions are to stack with GW and either Lipodrol or Clen if I can get my hands on some. Considering that i don't think 5% is WAY out there as an achievable goal.
 
Cmseabee24

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If your nutrition is spot on and at a deficit with almost any compound you shouldnt need Clen. Clen has negative possible lasting effects on the heart. It seems like your dead set on what you wanna run. Only way to learn is trial and error.
 
Harishusain

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If your nutrition is spot on and at a deficit with almost any compound you shouldnt need Clen. Clen has negative possible lasting effects on the heart. It seems like your dead set on what you wanna run. Only way to learn is trial and error.
I'm actually quite open to any and all information and appreciate it. Might be coming off as stubborn or headstrong on running this cycle, but I'm actually trying to understand the ins and outs of it and possible alternatives. Anavar is still on my radar. Regarding Clen is also noted, trying to devise an optimal strategy before getting into a cycle. Again, all input is really appreciated .
 
Cmseabee24

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I understand I suggest starting with least harsh AAS before trying to jump into something that might not be needed.
 
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