Winny or DMZ with Test E

[Jstrong20]

I've kept gains from oral only cycles. S drol is the best muscle builder period imo. Really even if you only keep 4 or 5 lbs after a 4-6 week cycle that is still an insane amount of muscle to build in a short time. It may feel like you didn't keep much after all the glycogen fades. But yeah I'm still sticking with sdrol is the absolute fastest way to build muscle. Haven't ran it for years but used it numerous times. Ha love and hate it at the same time. Feeling like a zombie sucks but you feel like a good for that hour in the gym. Lol

 

[MadStax]

I've kept gains from oral only cycles. S drol is the best muscle builder period imo. Really even if you only keep 4 or 5 lbs after a 4-6 week cycle that is still an insane amount of muscle to build in a short time. It may feel like you didn't keep much after all the glycogen fades. But yeah I'm still sticking with sdrol is the absolute fastest way to build muscle. Haven't ran it for years but used it numerous times. Ha love and hate it at the same time. Feeling like a zombie sucks but you feel like a good for that hour in the gym. Lol

SD is absolutely the fastest way to gain mass aside from Lantus (or any long acting insulin) but it's also the most toxic. Slow and steady is the way imo. I want to live a good long life. Sure, Primo may be a lot more expensive, but I can put on a handful of quality pounds with a 16 week cycle and feel great the whole way! I also think I look better/healthier. Win win imo.

 

[Stopstalking2]

Whoa! That's a heavy dose!
I loved it at 10-20mg.
LOL

It’s good at any dose but I’ve always had a liver that could hold up to whatever I threw at it. I remember stacking it with kilosports trenadrol and strength gains were off the chain.

 

[Renew1]

It’s good at any dose but I’ve always had a liver that could hold up to whatever I threw at it. I remember stacking it with kilosports trenadrol and strength gains were off the chain.

Wow.
Some guys are like that. ... Most of us aren't (sadly).

 

[Rad83]

How’s y’all kidney blood work/creatinine on these orals?

 

[Jstrong20]

SD is absolutely the fastest way to gain mass aside from Lantus (or any long acting insulin) but it's also the most toxic. Slow and steady is the way imo. I want to live a good long life. Sure, Primo may be a lot more expensive, but I can put on a handful of quality pounds with a 16 week cycle and feel great the whole way! I also think I look better/healthier. Win win imo.

Yeah I feel the same and this is why I haven't used it for years. I'll admit the temptation is there though. Lol

 

[Smont]

Whoa! That's a heavy dose!
I loved it at 10-20mg.
LOL

Not joking, outside the forums 40-50 mg is a standard dose. The original testers used 50mg daily, Ive seen protocols from high level coaches that suggest up to.............. Wait for it.......... 100mg a day

 

[Smont]

How’s y’all kidney blood work/creatinine on these orals?

Not that I'm a fan of orals, but they don't do anything significant to my bloodwork, not even SD

 

[LifeNtheFastlane]

May I sidebar my thread for a moment while I have you all..

Adex- 24hrs after each injection or day of injection? .5mg tabs.

 

[Smont]

May I sidebar my thread for a moment while I have you all..

Adex- 24hrs after each injection or day of injection? .5mg tabs.

Estrogen peaks about 12 hrs post injection so in the rare occasion I do need to be on a ai, I take the shot in the morning and ai at night, about 12 hrs later

 

[LifeNtheFastlane]

Thanks @Smont . I've been running it since last weeks first pin. Had bloods for this week but work overwhelmed me so will be getting those next week to see where things stand.

 

[Jstrong20]

Not joking, outside the forums 40-50 mg is a standard dose. The original testers used 50mg daily, Ive seen protocols from high level coaches that suggest up to.............. Wait for it.......... 100mg a day

That's crazy to me. I tried 30 mgs and it was no better then 20mgs. I grew so fast on 20 don't think it would be possible to gain weight any faster. Same with m1. I had some liquid and ran it at 15mgs a day. Same thing. Usually the 10 to 14 day mark you would just wake up one day and would have a massive jump in strength and pumps and gain a **** ton of weight I. What seemed to be overnight. Lol. Now msten I like at 40mgs a day. I posted that awhile ago and people freaked out and acted like I was crazy. Lol

 

[Jstrong20]

And that was back when I was still in the 240 to 250 range. I was actually thinking if I run superdrol again I'll just run a small dose of trest or test as a base because it's so strong anything else added would be a waste. Actually I remember one time I lost a bunch of weight and was absolutely peeled to where I had no energy. I was 200 if I remember right and on superdrol 315 for high reps felt so light. Sure that's not a lot for some but im not a good bencher. So banging out 15 reps for sets with short rest was something. Lol

 

[Smont]

That's crazy to me. I tried 30 mgs and it was no better then 20mgs. I grew so fast on 20 don't think it would be possible to gain weight any faster. Same with m1. I had some liquid and ran it at 15mgs a day. Same thing. Usually the 10 to 14 day mark you would just wake up one day and would have a massive jump in strength and pumps and gain a **** ton of weight I. What seemed to be overnight. Lol. Now msten I like at 40mgs a day. I posted that awhile ago and people freaked out and acted like I was crazy. Lol

So for me personally, 30mg was the sweet spot, a night and day difference from 20. And I also like msten at 40. Ppl freak out because they only know what the internet tells them and I understand, if you don't know better you just don't know.

If you took 20mg or 40mg of SD the difference in your bloodwork would be barely noticeable. At least for me it is.

And I don't understand why ppl think 40mg of msten or SD is nuts but 45mg of dmz is normal or 75-100mg anadrol is normal.

The same guy that says 40mg of xyz is bad has no problem taking 500mg of tren or dhb.

Everyone is a product of there environment and we only know what we know and it's human nature to be scared of what we don't know or understand

 

[Smont]

Sorry I went a little Overkill there with the talk to text and drag that one out lol

 

[Renew1]

So for me personally, 30mg was the sweet spot, a night and day difference from 20. And I also like msten at 40. Ppl freak out because they only know what the internet tells them and I understand, if you don't know better you just don't know.

If you took 20mg or 40mg of SD the difference in your bloodwork would be barely noticeable. At least for me it is.

And I don't understand why ppl think 40mg of msten or SD is nuts but 45mg of dmz is normal or 75-100mg anadrol is normal.

The same guy that says 40mg of xyz is bad has no problem taking 500mg of tren or dhb.

Everyone is a product of there environment and we only know what we know and it's human nature to be scared of what we don't know or understand

Well, that's not true.

I don't base my reality off of "Internet Bro science".
A bunch of bros couldn't tell me my own experiences, or the experiences of guys I know.

I'm glad (in some ways) that you're able to take more orals than the majority of guys.

But your ability doesn't help the guys who can't, any more than their inability to do what you do doesn't negate your own ability.

 

[Smont]

Well, that's not true.

I don't base my reality off of "Internet Bro science".
A bunch of bros couldn't tell me my own experiences, or the experiences of guys I know.

I'm glad (in some ways) that you're able to take more orals than the majority of guys.

But your ability doesn't help the guys who can't, any more than their inability to do what you do doesn't negate your own ability.

I didn't say you based your reality off of anything I didn't mention your name I didn't say a comment about you, not sure why you're quoting me and acting like I pinpointed you in that in my post.

I was talking about people in general and as a generalization everything in my statement is true, in general that is what people do. I'm also not reccomendeing ppl take high doses. If anything I think ppl should avoid orals 90% of the time and use there prior bloodwork and personal experience as a guide to assess what is or isint safe for them.

Also on a side note.

The beta testers for SD ran 50mg a day without liver enzymes going out of the normal range. It was a long time ago but some of them posted that bloodwork here on AM. Back when I saw that I thought they were all nuts because I only know about sd what I had read online, and that's how the majority of ppl base there opinion.

Heck, like 80% of this forum is constantly advising ppl and forming opinions on cycles based solely on what they read and have never even used the compounds. We see that here almost daily

 

[Smont]

I was also just driving on the highway and using talk to text and kind of just thinking out loud. Nothing was directed at anyone

 

[Renew1]

I didn't say you based your reality off of anything I didn't mention your name I didn't say a comment about you, not sure why you're quoting me and acting like I pinpointed you in that in my post.

I was talking about people in general and as a generalization everything in my statement is true, in general that is what people do. I'm also not reccomendeing ppl take high doses. If anything I think ppl should avoid orals 90% of the time and use there prior bloodwork and personal experience as a guide to assess what is or isint safe for them.

Also on a side note.

The beta testers for SD ran 50mg a day without liver enzymes going out of the normal range. It was a long time ago but some of them posted that bloodwork here on AM. Back when I saw that I thought they were all nuts because I only know about sd what I had read online, and that's how the majority of ppl base there opinion.

Heck, like 80% of this forum is constantly advising ppl and forming opinions on cycles based solely on what they read and have never even used the compounds. We see that here almost daily

I wasn't saying you were pinpointing me.
But, in this conversation (and thread), I tend to be more like the group that you were mentioning, rather than more like you.

I've used SD at 10mg, and the results were Outstanding (and the sides strong). I have also bumped it up to 20mg, and there was a small increase in effectiveness.... And a larger increase in sides.
Bumping it higher for a cycle was not an option for me, unless the compound suddenly reduces it's sides, when going over a certain amount (and I certainly don't believe that to be true). And I know guys who have the same experience. So, I wouldn't write off guys who claim to have this experience, just because it is on a forum.

Again (and I've said this on several occasions), I'm happy for you that you are able to run higher amounts of compounds .... In some ways.

Sure, some guys come on this site (and others), and give advice based only upon reading.

Thankfully, I'm not one of those guys, and neither are you.

 

[Smont]

I wasn't saying you were pinpointing me.
But, in this conversation (and thread), I tend to be more like the group that you were mentioning, rather than more like you.

I've used SD at 10mg, and the results were Outstanding (and the sides strong). I have also bumped it up to 20mg, and there was a small increase in effectiveness.... And a larger increase in sides.
Bumping it higher for a cycle was not an option for me, unless the compound suddenly reduces it's sides, when going over a certain amount (and I certainly don't believe that to be true). And I know guys who have the same experience. So, I wouldn't write off guys who claim to have this experience, just because it is on a forum.

Again (and I've said this on several occasions), I'm happy for you that you are able to run higher amounts of compounds .... In some ways.

Sure, some guys come on this site (and others), and give advice based only upon reading.

Thankfully, I'm not one of those guys, and neither are you.

There's so many people like that tho. On a regular basis il see someone make a thread saying there starting there first cycle and it will be someone who has been chiming in every thread giving advice for the past year or 2. Blows my mind.

I'm like, come on dude. Would you read a couple comments ppl made on physics and then try to teach a science class, or go get your blood work done for the first then start a blood letting clinic or something.

That talking parrot syndrome. Sadly, I remember doing it myself like 12 years ago after I ran my first PH cycle.

I was a expert on hdrol and epistane lol. And dermacrine, can't forget about derma

 

[Renew1]

There's so many people like that tho. On a regular basis il see someone make a thread saying there starting there first cycle and it will be someone who has been chiming in every thread giving advice for the past year or 2. Blows my mind.

I'm like, come on dude. Would you read a couple comments ppl made on physics and then try to teach a science class, or go get your blood work done for the first then start a blood letting clinic or something.

That talking parrot syndrome. Sadly, I remember doing it myself like 12 years ago after I ran my first PH cycle.

I was a expert on hdrol and epistane lol. And dermacrine, can't forget about derma

Yep, and we see a similar thing, where guys admit that it is their first cycle, and they ask for advice....
But when they get it, they tell the commenters why they are wrong.

 

[Smont]

Yep, and we see a similar thing, where guys admit that it is their first cycle, and they ask for advice....
But when they get it, they tell the commenters why they are wrong.

Ya dumbass, because my friend told me it works and I seen it. And there was a study in 1978 done on gerbils we're the gained 28lbs in 3 weeks on a cut taking it on a empty stomach with beet juice

 

[Smont]

That's why I'm doing the lean bulk cutting recomp cycle

 

[Renew1]

That's why I'm doing the lean bulk cutting recomp cycle

LOL

 

[MadStax]

The beet juice is real! Bet you didn't try it.

Look at Ukraine. They stomping on Russia with nothing more than a bowl of borscht a day.

 

[matt21irby21]

DMZ I usually run at 20-60mg it makes my veins pop the very first day I take it. By the end of the week, I can already tell I’ve put on dry mass even after eating like a pig (I do have a really fast metabolism so that helps) dmz makes me look almost like when I used to do tren. But tren makes me want to kill everyone around me while also wishing I were dead myself so I quit using it. I usually run dmz for 6-8 weeks with Tudca. The lethargy does t kick in until about week 5-6. I start feeling like I’m going to fall asleep standing up. My urine gets darker. And my eyes start to get a cloudy look. I run test at 500mg with the cycle. Once I come off the DMZ, I usually lose about 50 percent of the size within a few weeks. The test keeps some of it but not enough to keep my happy. That’s just the way orals are. They make you look great for a short period of time.

SD I run at 10-20mg. I get bigger results than with DMZ but I don’t look as defined which is what I’m usually after. But man the size it great and comes in quick! Unfortunately I only make it a couple weeks before my liver won’t even allow me to stay awake for more than a few hours. The sides are WAY worse than with DMZ in my opinion. I wouldn’t run orals anymore personally. I feel much better using test E and throwing a couple sarms
In the mix. My body doesn’t look as good as with DMZ or SD, but I’m also getting older and so is my kid so I want to live long enough to watch her grow up.