Why Not Clomid All The Time?

JoeBrooklyn

JoeBrooklyn

Well-known member
I have a question. If Clomid helps to bring your natural levels of testosterone back, why not just do Clomid all the time as opposed to AAS?
 
Won't bring your levels up above natural..

It might at first, but most long term lab use I've seen shows an increase by a good amount and then slowly decrease and plateau.. But I'm no expert..
 
Goliath1 said:
Won't bring your levels up above natural..

It might at first, but most long term lab use I've seen shows an increase by a good amount and then slowly decrease and plateau.. But I'm no expert..
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Ok, well then it may not be good for bodybuilders but what if someone wanted to go on TRT to increase Test to normal levels but instead opted for Clomid?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I have a question. If Clomid helps to bring your natural levels of testosterone back, why not just do Clomid all the time as opposed to AAS?
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It's kinda sucks emotionally and doesn't work the same way or with the same level of effectiveness as AAS.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Ok, well then it may not be good for bodybuilders but what if someone wanted to go on TRT to increase Test to normal levels but instead opted for Clomid?
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Some protocols may try this and/or HCG. Whether they stay elevated is a different issue.
 
srblan said:
Some protocols may try this and/or HCG. Whether they stay elevated is a different issue.
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I tried just coasting on HCG and first of all you have to monitor your estrogen so you do have to take some amount of AI. Second HCG is suppressive to the HPTA. As far as I know there are no long term studies on the suppressivness of HCG as opposed to AAS where we know how to jump start our systems again.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I tried just coasting on HCG and first of all you have to monitor your estrogen so you do have to take some amount of AI. Second HCG is suppressive to the HPTA. As far as I know there are no long term studies on the suppressivness of HCG as opposed to AAS where we know how to jump start our systems again.
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Yeah, I think that's why most go the test route, though with test you have to monitor estrogen and potentially take an AI (and hcg to prevent shrinkage).

The side effects of clomid can suuuuuuuuck. It prevents estrogen from bonding, which prevents estrogen from inhibiting some of the feedback loop, which can increase FSH/LH, and potentially test, but if the side effects outweigh the benefits, then it's not effective. It seems like clomid is used off-label for hypogonadism in men (probably similar to how it's used in PCT), so if you are not effected by the sides, it's probably worth a try.
 
srblan said:
Yeah, I think that's why most go the test route, though with test you have to monitor estrogen and potentially take an AI (and hcg to prevent shrinkage).

The side effects of clomid can suuuuuuuuck. It prevents estrogen from bonding, which prevents estrogen from inhibiting some of the feedback loop, which can increase FSH/LH, and potentially test, but if the side effects outweigh the benefits, then it's not effective. It seems like clomid is used off-label for hypogonadism in men (probably similar to how it's used in PCT), so if you are not effected by the sides, it's probably worth a try.
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What are the side affects of Clomid?
 
I do sometimes get moody but I assumed it was because of high estrogen which Novladex is supposed to control. Since the sides seem to be estrogenic would that include lack of libido? And isn't increase SHBG good? That will increase Free Test.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I do sometimes get moody but I assumed it was because of high estrogen which Novladex is supposed to control. Since the sides seem to be estrogenic would that include lack of libido? And isn't increase SHBG good? That will increase Free Test.
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High SHBG means more bound test, less free test. I'm not sure about the lack of libido - once you start messing with the feedback loop, I suppose increased or decreased libido is possible.
 
srblan said:
High SHBG means more bound test, less free test. I'm not sure about the lack of libido - once you start messing with the feedback loop, I suppose increased or decreased libido is possible.
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Well, then that's not the case for me either because my Free Test is 116.35 out of 578.5 Total Test, that's 20%, which is higher than normal.
 
Goliath1 said:
Nolva won't control estrogen..
It will increase circulating estrogen.
High estrogen can lead to low libido..
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So then what's the point of Novladex? If it doesnt control estrogen or one of it's sides (i.e. low libido) what use it at all? And if it increases estrogen should I be taking an AI with Clomid and Novladex?
 
It will KickStart your test again after being suppressed, block estrogen from binding to your boobies, lol That's why you taper off of Nolva and/or run an AI past your serm to avoid estrogen rebound.
 
Goliath1 said:
It will KickStart your test again after being suppressed, block estrogen from binding to your boobies, lol That's why you taper off of Nolva and/or run an AI past your serm to avoid estrogen rebound.
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I thought Clomid kick starts your test. Also, maybe the problem is I havent used an AI during PCT. So I should and how much. On cycle I was using 0.5mg of Adex.
 
Clomid does also, better than Nolva..

Some people don't ever use an AI in pct..
I always do, never will run pct w/o one..

Were all different, gotta find what works for you..
 
Goliath1 said:
Clomid does also, better than Nolva..

Some people don't ever use an AI in pct..
I always do, never will run pct w/o one..

Were all different, gotta find what works for you..
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So is using Nolvedex and Clomid over kill? I am still waiting for my estrogen test results, but Im thinking I should be using an AI on PCT.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
So is using Nolvedex and Clomid over kill? I am still waiting for my estrogen test results, but Im thinking I should be using an AI on PCT.
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Usually people would use one or both of those, plus a suicidal AI (which binds to aromatase and prevents estrogen conversion) like exemestane - coincidentally nolva and exemestane are used to fight estrogen-responsive breast cancer as well which requires estrogen to grow, so there is probably quite a bit more study on these two together. Clomid is used as a fertility drug on label, so probably not as thoroughly tested with those two (clinically at least).
 
1) Mental sides
2) Raises SHBG, thus free test levels (what matters) probably don't change much
3) Reduces IGF-1
 
srblan said:
Usually people would use one or both of those, plus a suicidal AI (which binds to aromatase and prevents estrogen conversion) like exemestane - coincidentally nolva and exemestane are used to fight estrogen-responsive breast cancer as well which requires estrogen to grow, so there is probably quite a bit more study on these two together. Clomid is used as a fertility drug on label, so probably not as thoroughly tested with those two (clinically at least).
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But if they do the same thing, why do both? Right now I dont have any Exemestane (Aromasine) on hand, I only have Adex. I took 0.5mg today after my last post.
 
hewhoisripped said:
1) Mental sides
2) Raises SHBG, thus free test levels (what matters) probably don't change much
3) Reduces IGF-1
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So far the mental sides have been minimal, my Free Test is fine, so Im not worried about SHBG; but I dont know about IGF-1. Would that affect my libido? Can I get it tested?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
So far the mental sides have been minimal, my Free Test is fine, so Im not worried about SHBG; but I dont know about IGF-1. Would that affect my libido? Can I get it tested?
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Yo can sorta get it tested, but without a several month old baseline it's useless. In range ≠ fine. It it's the same at 1000ng/dL as it was at 500ng/dL, then clomid isn't providing any advantage. Did you get SHBG tested?
 
hewhoisripped said:
Yo can sorta get it tested, but without a several month old baseline it's useless. In range ≠ fine. It it's the same at 1000ng/dL as it was at 500ng/dL, then clomid isn't providing any advantage. Did you get SHBG tested?
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Ok, so it's a little more complicated then just one test? No, I didn't get SHBG tested but my Free Test is 116.35 and my Total Test is 578.5, so SHBG should be good.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Ok, so it's a little more complicated then just one test? No, I didn't get SHBG tested but my Free Test is 116.35 and my Total Test is 578.5, so SHBG should be good.
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Decreased IGF 1? No thanks
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Ok, well then it may not be good for bodybuilders but what if someone wanted to go on TRT to increase Test to normal levels but instead opted for Clomid?
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there are some studies that support this.. have a poke around on ergo-log for more deetz, I myself have played with it as a TRT scenario and enjoyed it quite a bit. I started at 50 per day the first couple weeks and then 25 for a month or so and then 25 EOD ... for several months. it did work and I plan to do it again as needed.. feeling like **** cause of low test and libido is no joke.. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
there are some studies that support this.. have a poke around on ergo-log for more deetz, I myself have played with it as a TRT scenario and enjoyed it quite a bit. I started at 50 per day the first couple weeks and then 25 for a month or so and then 25 EOD ... for several months. it did work and I plan to do it again as needed.. feeling like **** cause of low test and libido is no joke.. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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When you were on clomid did you levels peak and them decline and eventually plateau??

Or did they hold steady until lowering your dose?

Just curious on more results, I've seen maybe 3-4 sets of labs only on the subject..
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
But if they do the same thing, why do both? Right now I dont have any Exemestane (Aromasine) on hand, I only have Adex. I took 0.5mg today after my last post.
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If both are taken, it's because clomid can help with the testes a bit more (remember, fertility drug). The S in SERM stands for selective - they don't affect every tissue. Nolva antagonizes estrogen in breast tissue, clomid prevents estrogen from binding in the hypothalamus.
Exemestane can raise test about 60%, lower SHBG up to about 20%, and nolva doesn't affect its levels in the blood (nolva does affect adex and letro, apparently).
 
srblan said:
If both are taken, it's because clomid can help with the testes a bit more (remember, fertility drug). The S in SERM stands for selective - they don't affect every tissue. Nolva antagonizes estrogen in breast tissue, clomid prevents estrogen from binding in the hypothalamus.
Exemestane can raise test about 60%, lower SHBG up to about 20%, and nolva doesn't affect its levels in the blood (nolva does affect adex and letro, apparently).
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So I shouldn't use Novladex if I use Adex?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
So I shouldn't use Novladex if I use Adex?
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You can, it just lowers the level of adex a little. That's fine since most of the effects if estrogen are blocked, and you taper the nolva when you go off it. I've just read in a few places that the best place for adex is on cycle and the best (and maybe only) place for aromasin is PCT.
 
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