who uses pro hormones

Smont said:
Another example would be say you bought a sports car, and you took out the motor and put a smaller weaker motor inside of it. You took away with that sports car could already do and gave it something less to work with
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****, maybe I'll bump it to four!
 
Smont said:
Your body weight has nothing to do with the dose, all these compounds have effective doses to make them work. At 2 pumps your getting 150 4andro and 150 epiandro. Those doses are not high enough to build muscle but they are high enough to start shutting down/suppressing your natural hormones.
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2 pumps is only 75mg each of them. Even on 35 percent sales I don't see it as worth it. I'm still sad about pre.
 
Ironpirate said:
2 pumps is only 75mg each of them. Even on 35 percent sales I don't see it as worth it. I'm still sad about pre.
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Oh wow, I thought it was 75mg per pump. That's rediculous. In that case 2 pumps a day is going to be completely counterproductive
 
You want about 300mg of each for them to do there job. I didn't take into consideration that transdermal is slightly more effective but even then I would say 200mg of each is probably the minimum I would see someone using to make progress
 
Smont said:
You want about 300mg of each for them to do there job. I didn't take into consideration that transdermal is slightly more effective but even then I would say 200mg of each is probably the minimum I would see someone using to make progress
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When we're talking pills, 300 mg of andro 1 Is a sweet spot. However, when we're talking transdermals that drops well below 200 due to the bioavailability factor. For example, the beloved icon 1 is only 112 for 5 pumps. In order to get what you're recommending above you would need 9 pumps of icon 1 per day. You tryin to get people swollen around here 😆🙂
 
However, to your original point it would take four pumps of gear cream to equal five pumps of icon one formula.

Andro 1 in gear cream
2 pumps 50
3 pumps 75
4 pumps 100
 
joe123! said:
However, to your original point it would take four pumps of gear cream to equal five pumps of icon one formula.

Andro 1 in gear cream
2 pumps 50
3 pumps 75
4 pumps 100
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So what is in Gear cream? Previously there was talk about 4-Andro and Epiandro. Now 1-Andro? I did 150 mg td 1-Andro the last time I used it and I'm going to do more next time I decide to use it.. I think 300 mg oral is the minimum, not sweet spot (slightly individual, I admit). And td is said to be about twice as effective, give or take.
 
KvanH said:
So what is in Gear cream? Previously there was talk about 4-Andro and Epiandro. Now 1-Andro? I did 150 mg td 1-Andro the last time I used it and I'm going to do more next time I decide to use it.. I think 300 mg oral is the minimum, not sweet spot (slightly individual, I admit). And td is said to be about twice as effective, give or take.
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4 pumps a day is where I'd suggest someone to start if they want to make progress with this product
 

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I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here, I'm not trying to bash anyone or argue. I'm just trying to help people get the most out of what they're doing and not do things that are counterproductive
 
Smont said:
4 pumps a day is where I'd suggest someone to start if they want to make progress with this product
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Thanks for the pic. That's an interesting stack and while a decent combination of ingridients, it faces the difficulty that you'll have with stacks like these. I personally can manage with pretty low 4-Andro td dose for a base, but need more 1-Andro.

So solely based on 1-Andro I would start from 6 pumps and go up if needed. I bet 7 or 8 pumps would be really good for me, but might have to add in some AI.
 
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Smont said:
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here, I'm not trying to bash anyone or argue. I'm just trying to help people get the most out of what they're doing and not do things that are counterproductive
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Some of the information provided is quality especially for those experimenting with lower doses and it could actually end up being counter productive.
 
Smont said:
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here, I'm not trying to bash anyone or argue. I'm just trying to help people get the most out of what they're doing and not do things that are counterproductive
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I'm not even doing that, lol. Just having a convo on a topic that interest me, heh.
 
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What I would actually personally do with that product, is I'd apply 3 to 4 pumps and add oral 1-Andro 100 - 200 mg and Epiandro 300 - 600 mg. That would be kewl
 
KvanH said:
What I would actually personally do with that product, is I'd apply 3 to 4 pumps and add oral 1-Andro 100 - 200 mg and Epiandro 300 - 600 mg. That would be kewl
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Well that's another problem all in itself with these all-in-one products, you can't control the doses you're stuck with what they give you.
 
Smont said:
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here, I'm not trying to bash anyone or argue. I'm just trying to help people get the most out of what they're doing and not do things that are counterproductive
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Didn't take it out with at all, I thought we were just bouncing off ideas. You raised a lot of solid points which is caused me to bump up my pumps. I definitely won't run this again, way too damn costly
 
Smont said:
Well that's another problem all in itself with these all-in-one products, you can't control the doses you're stuck with what they give you.
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I’m going to log it on top of 240mg test for a month as soon as I get back from vacation, basically a hot cruise/very low cycle for a month to see what kind of strength and composition changes I can get out of it with a solid base under it.
 
Hyde said:
I’m going to log it on top of 240mg test for a month as soon as I get back from vacation, basically a hot cruise/very low cycle for a month to see what kind of strength and composition changes I can get out of it with a solid base under it.
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Tag me in on that, see this is a much better way to go about using these products. You got your 240 test to put you a little above the natural range and add other androgens on top of it for a little kick in the ass. That's pretty much what I do when I mess around with epi Andro and sarms
 
joe123! said:
Didn't take it out with at all, I thought we were just bouncing off ideas. You raised a lot of solid points which is caused me to bump up my pumps. I definitely won't run this again, way too damn costly
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That's kinda how the OTC game works, it's more expensive. But you could always buy 1 more bottle and still make it worth while. If you got another bottle plus half of the one you got now you would have 150 pumps at 6 pumps a day making the last 25 days of your cycle decent
 
Smont said:
Tag me in on that, see this is a much better way to go about using these products. You got your 240 test to put you a little above the natural range and add other androgens on top of it for a little kick in the ass. That's pretty much what I do when I mess around with epi Andro and sarms
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Exactly; I’m actually excited for the DHEA in it now that I cruise because 100mg transdermal is going to be a stout amount, way way more than I’m getting endogenously now shut down, even with a little bit of HCG here and there. I am expecting to need a little exemestane and to feel some good well-being and drive in the gym with this. Oral 1-Andro used to give me the absolute worst lethargy, but I suspect the transdermal application and using a lower amount, coupled with the epiandro at the same time, will take care of that fine. And the 7-Keto will be tempering cortisol and upregulating thyroid health slightly too.
 
Hyde said:
Exactly; I’m actually excited for the DHEA in it now that I cruise because 100mg transdermal is going to be a stout amount, way way more than I’m getting endogenously now shut down, even with a little bit of HCG here and there. I am expecting to need a little exemestane and to feel some good well-being and drive in the gym with this. Oral 1-Andro used to give me the absolute worst lethargy, but I suspect the transdermal application and using a lower amount, coupled with the epiandro at the same time, will take care of that fine. And the 7-Keto will be tempering cortisol and upregulating thyroid health slightly too.
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Do you have any specific goals for this run body comp wise? To me it looks like a nice cutting stack.
 
KvanH said:
Do you have any specific goals for this run body comp wise? To me it looks like a nice cutting stack.
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Recomp slightly, or small lean gains. I am not worried about the scale weight; dietary focus will be to eat enough to sustain training that will allow me progress again on my squat and deadlift. I am returning to them after some months off spinal loading to focus on healing my back.

Basically, become a better powerlifter.
 
Hyde said:
Recomp slightly, or small lean gains. I am not worried about the scale weight; dietary focus will be to eat enough to sustain training that will allow me progress again on my squat and deadlift. I am returning to them after some months off spinal loading to focus on healing my back.

Basically, become a better powerlifter.
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I thought we agreed to transition over to more Pilates and yoga type stuff? I just spent all this money on pink resistance bands and a shake weight!
 
Hyde said:
Recomp slightly, or small lean gains. I am not worried about the scale weight; dietary focus will be to eat enough to sustain training that will allow me progress again on my squat and deadlift. I am returning to them after some months off spinal loading to focus on healing my back.

Basically, become a better powerlifter.
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Ok, sounds good. I'll be interested to follow your log aswell. You know you've probably 'grown' an inch in height while you've been staying away from spinal loading, lol.
 
KvanH said:
Ok, sounds good. I'll be interested to follow your log aswell. You know you've probably 'grown' an inch in height while you've been staying away from spinal loading, lol.
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I thought my neck was starting to look a little scrawny and un-impacted!
 
Also for you guys looking to go purely OTC with your cycles, I'm logging Apex alchemy product eclipse. And Hyde used there original version.

It's too early for me to judge estrogen levels and at some point twords the end I will get my estrogen checked to see how much lower it's gotten. But within 3 days I feel like it's drying me out a little and I'm pissing out some water weight so it might be a option for the OTC crowd. Honestly if it works good enough I may use it in the future as well to avoid the typical negative effects of a Pharmaceutical AI
 
Smont said:
Also for you guys looking to go purely OTC with your cycles, I'm logging Apex alchemy product eclipse. And Hyde used there original version.

It's too early for me to judge estrogen levels and at some point twords the end I will get my estrogen checked to see how much lower it's gotten. But within 3 days I feel like it's drying me out a little and I'm pissing out some water weight so it might be a option for the OTC crowd. Honestly if it works good enough I may use it in the future as well to avoid the typical negative effects of a Pharmaceutical AI
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Going to have to stalk your posts from now on! Wish I would’ve come across this thread before starting an andro “cycle” but I’m glad to see that there are some uses still for this OTC gear. I just need to figure out the other side of the counter. And to your earlier post, I don’t think your bashing anyone, just making sure your experience helps others. Just wish I would’ve come across it sooner!
 
CROW 4D said:
Going to have to stalk your posts from now on! Wish I would’ve come across this thread before starting an andro “cycle” but I’m glad to see that there are some uses still for this OTC gear. I just need to figure out the other side of the counter. And to your earlier post, I don’t think your bashing anyone, just making sure your experience helps others. Just wish I would’ve come across it sooner!
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I know, I just feel like everyone thinks they're getting attacked these days when someone doesn't agree with them. I wasn't saying that anyone in here might have felt that way I was just making it clear that I wasn't trying to attack anyone.

You can make a argument for anything OTC to have a place. But the truth of the matter is that the traditional steroids that have been around all these years work the best, are usually the cheapest and you can even make an argument that they're safer than some of the over-the-counter things simply for the fact that we know the long-term data, and some of these sarms we don't. The Andros seem generally safe and non toxic, but they provide a quarter of the gains at three times the price.

So logically you gotta stick with the old school stuff. But you can still make use of anything. There all tools in a toolbox, sometimes you need an impact gun and other times you might just need a screwdriver
 
Smont said:
I know, I just feel like everyone thinks they're getting attacked these days when someone doesn't agree with them. I wasn't saying that anyone in here might have felt that way I was just making it clear that I wasn't trying to attack anyone.

You can make a argument for anything OTC to have a place. But the truth of the matter is that the traditional steroids that have been around all these years work the best, are usually the cheapest and you can even make an argument that they're safer than some of the over-the-counter things simply for the fact that we know the long-term data, and some of these sarms we don't. The Andros seem generally safe and non toxic, but they provide a quarter of the gains at three times the price.

So logically you gotta stick with the old school stuff. But you can still make use of anything. There all tools in a toolbox, sometimes you need an impact gun and other times you might just need a screwdriver
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I agree and totally get what your saying. I’m not speaking for everyone but I’m guessing a lot of guys are in the same boat as I am where I only know how and where to get the otc stuff like sarms and ph’s. I’ve been trying to find something somewhere that explains how to get some of the stronger gear but either I’m blind or I have no idea what to search to find the right answers
 
CROW 4D said:
I agree and totally get what your saying. I’m not speaking for everyone but I’m guessing a lot of guys are in the same boat as I am where I only know how and where to get the otc stuff like sarms and ph’s. I’ve been trying to find something somewhere that explains how to get some of the stronger gear but either I’m blind or I have no idea what to search to find the right answers
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We can't openly talk sources here but finding gear online is not super complicated, you find sites that sell it, then you start researching there history to see how long they have been around look up reviews of there products. You can also join a forum where source talk is allowed and look to see who sponcers them ect. Still all of those routes have potential to get bunk stuff or burned, but I guess that's part of the game. Just don't join a forum and immediately start asking for sources or no1 will help you. You need to get involved in threads and follow people's logs and make your presence known without actually asking for anything. Sooner or later someone will point you in the right direction.

Or you can just walk up to the biggest guy in the gym and ask him. But that could turn south pretty quick lol.

Keep looking it's not super complicated. If you really want it you will find it
 
Smont said:
We can't openly talk sources here but finding gear online is not super complicated, you find sites that sell it, then you start researching there history to see how long they have been around look up reviews of there products. You can also join a forum where source talk is allowed and look to see who sponcers them ect. Still all of those routes have potential to get bunk stuff or burned, but I guess that's part of the game. Just don't join a forum and immediately start asking for sources or no1 will help you. You need to get involved in threads and follow people's logs and make your presence known without actually asking for anything. Sooner or later someone will point you in the right direction.

Or you can just walk up to the biggest guy in the gym and ask him. But that could turn south pretty quick lol.

Keep looking it's not super complicated. If you really want it you will find it
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Fair enough. I’ve been a long time lurker just to try and get informed. But I’m beginning to notice that sometimes the best way to learn is to interact. And now that I’m in a place with recovering from injuries, I think I actually have some experience that may help others when it comes to trying to stay fit with multiple injuries.

I have my own gym right now so I’m the biggest guy around (more like schmedium) I work a lot and at weird hours and the nearest gym is a 30 minute drive one way which is why I invested a lot into my home gym.

Again, thanks for your information and experience. Definitely helped me out a lot
 
brofessorx said:
I’m all natty bro. Dat der cell tech.
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looking at those arms .. def cell tech is working its magic .. adding +10lbs a month along with an inch in every bi ceps lol
 
Your cover will be blown, when your pic's appear on Ironhands fake natty thread.
 
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Because most PHs like DMZ,Msten,M1A,etc are still widely available and easier and faster to get than a lot of orals, could have a bottle of DMZ in two days if I wanted. Although much more liver toxic, they blow every sarm out the water IMO and experience. They also give you that crazy “on” look. Although you lose most of what you gained since it’s mostly glycogen retention, it’s still a fun 4-6 weeks.
 
Bigmatt57 said:
Because most PHs like DMZ,Msten,M1A,etc are still widely available and easier and faster to get than a lot of orals, could have a bottle of DMZ in two days if I wanted. Although much more liver toxic, they blow every sarm out the water IMO and experience. They also give you that crazy “on” look. Although you lose most of what you gained since it’s mostly glycogen retention, it’s still a fun 4-6 weeks.
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This reply question could be it’s own thread and I’m sure it has lol…But would you say in your experience…That you’ve typically kept enough from a dmz cycle for example, to have made the 4-6 weeks worth it, overall? (I know you don’t keep everything or the “on look”)…Thanks
 
Rad83 said:
This reply question could be it’s own thread and I’m sure it has lol…But would you say in your experience…That you’ve typically kept enough from a dmz cycle for example, to have made the 4-6 weeks worth it, overall? (I know you don’t keep everything or the “on look”)…Thanks
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Honestly no, unless you are on you running it along with a test cycle or are on TRT. I feel as if suppressing your natural testosterone for the 4-6 weeks your on for, is simply not worth it. Others may disagree, however I was once that guy who would run 4-5 Sarm/PH cycles every year, and it’s almost as if by the time your natural testosterone is back within your normal range, your back on another cycle.
 
Smont said:
So I just double checked, iml has 4andro, 100ml bttl at 50mg/ml
Even tho the suggestion is 2 pumps or 100mg per day, the effective dose for 4 Andro is 300mg per day and that's usually the starting point. So you would need 6 pumps per day to get 300mg. Making 1 bottle last 16 days, at bare minimum you would need 3 bottles for a cycle and the same goes for there other products I believe.
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I tried that IML 4andro out running 4 pumps a day (200mg) for a month and got noticeably bigger, more vascular, strength gains similar to sarms/PH. Worked well enough for me to buy 2 more bottles. 300mg seems more like the minimum oral dose
 
I am now in search, but I am constantly advised Invalid Link Removed as a reliable and good option that you can choose for yourself, and I am increasingly inclined to choose it. If there is something against it, tell me, I will be glad of new information!
 
Ducatti said:
I am now in search, but I am constantly advised Invalid Link Removed as a reliable and good option that you can choose for yourself, and I am increasingly inclined to choose it. If there is something against it, tell me, I will be glad of new information!
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KvanH said:

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Hey! I have bad English because I use an online translator and it was only after your comment that I noticed how my message looks in translation! I wanted to get other people's opinions to get information from different sources!
 
Ducatti said:
Hey! I have bad English because I use an online translator and it was only after your comment that I noticed how my message looks in translation! I wanted to get other people's opinions to get information from different sources!
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Okey, I understand. But we are not allowed to talk about sources here, that sell illegal drugs. And sharing the link in your post is against the forum rules. There are other forums, where talking about sources is ok, but I don't know those forums. Maybe you can find them with Google.

Other than the source talk, you are welcome here in Anabolic Minds.
 
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