who uses pro hormones

[CROW 4D]

Dude it’s not that hard

It’s not necessarily hard but being out of the game for so long means that I’ve no idea what brands are good and where to get them anymore without research. I used to get all my Olympus labs gear from a website that’s gone. Olympus doesn’t even do PH anymore. It’s been that long lmao. That’s what I’ve been doing this week. I came across a few posts on here and now I’m Looking at Ironman labs for my next cycle.

 

[CROW 4D]

All of those things are still on the market and never have left... You can find one Andro, 4 Andro and epi Andro everywhere. Just make sure you pick a brand that's dosed properly

That’s my plan. At the time I stopped, Olympus labs was no longer making PH because of some shortage , I remember I couldn’t even find anything from hi-tech at the time.

Been searching and reading through this app looking at what’s relevant and what people have liked. Ran across ironmag labs and they have everything I used to use

 

[Hyde]

Interesting .

I never heard many people giving positive reviews about 19-DHEA although its quite available. How did you find it?

I just recommended that because nandrolone is more suppressive than testosterone or DHT derivatives. The idea was to buy something “safe” that is otc, legal, a precursor bio-identical hormone that should suppress a guy enough with one bottle or so to hopefully get levels that would qualify him for TRT at a clinic.

You could use any steroids or SARMs in sufficient quantity or duration to shut yourself down. Someone could just go get a bottle of LGD too. Don’t read too far into it.

I used a bunch of 19-Nor DHEA from AMS and Androfactory back in the day but it’s not as strong as 1-Andro. It is more female friendly though (pregnant women produce nandrolone naturally).

 

[Smont]

That’s my plan. At the time I stopped, Olympus labs was no longer making PH because of some shortage , I remember I couldn’t even find anything from hi-tech at the time.

Been searching and reading through this app looking at what’s relevant and what people have liked. Ran across ironmag labs and they have everything I used to use

Don't quote me on this because it's been awhile but I think ironmag Labs has the lowest dosed products on the market, at least they used to so I would be hesitant about buying that product

 

[Smont]

So I just double checked, iml has 4andro, 100ml bttl at 50mg/ml
Even tho the suggestion is 2 pumps or 100mg per day, the effective dose for 4 Andro is 300mg per day and that's usually the starting point. So you would need 6 pumps per day to get 300mg. Making 1 bottle last 16 days, at bare minimum you would need 3 bottles for a cycle and the same goes for there other products I believe.

 

[Smont]

So your looking at 3 bottles of each to do a 1/4/epi cycle for 6-7weeks . Pretty expensive cycle to maybe add 3-4lbs of muscle if your lucky

 

[KvanH]

That’s my plan. At the time I stopped, Olympus labs was no longer making PH because of some shortage , I remember I couldn’t even find anything from hi-tech at the time.

Been searching and reading through this app looking at what’s relevant and what people have liked. Ran across ironmag labs and they have everything I used to use

Some thoughts;

Andros have a short half life, so many choose transdermal products due to the sustained release. With orals, dosing three times a day at minimun is recommended (I think). If looking at TD's, they are estimated to be about twice as effective as oral versions, due to enzymes in specific areas in skin allowing better conversion, so keep that in mind. But it's still just an estimation and I'd assume to be a bit individual too. With Epiandro theres a little added benefit in oral version, as it gives bit of a kick. When I use it I like to dose TD in the AM and then oral preWO.

My recommendations for products (Not really in any particular order, other than TD/oral):

1-Andro TD:

If you can still find Iconic Formulations Icon One somewhere. It also has DHEA and Pregnenolone in it. The production has been stopped recently.

If you can still find Alpha Gainz 1-Andro. The production has been stopped recently.


1-Andro oral:

Hard Rock Supplements Super Mandro


4-Andro TD:

If you can still find Iconic Alpha Four. It also has Androsterone in it.

If you can still find Aplha Gainz 4-Andro.


4-Andro oral:

Hard rock supps Andro the giant.


Epiandro TD:

Iconic Ultra Epi.

Apex Aplchemy Stanogen.


Epiandro oral:

Competitive Edge Labs Stano-Plex 300. It also has Vaso-6 in it.


Extra:

Iconic Ultra Hard is TD Epiandro+Androsterone.


I have used some of them, but not nearly all. But I did do quite a lot of research before purchasing any. Still these are just the impressions I've got of the better Andro products on the market. Ironmag is a sponsor here and I believe it to be a solid brand too. For some reason I don't see/hear much about it

I know Strong Supplement Store has some of these products on their catalog.

 

[CROW 4D]

So your looking at 3 bottles of each to do a 1/4/epi cycle for 6-7weeks . Pretty expensive cycle to maybe add 3-4lbs of muscle if your lucky

Ouch. I get what you mean though. I found the bottles of what I took last from Olympus and they were 110mg each. 3x a day and they weren’t nearly as expensive. I’ve been reading so much Into this that I’m going crossed eyed trying to find the right supps and then from the right place! My head hurts….. I guess that’s what I get from taking such a long break

 

[Smont]

I think I remember Derek saying Nolvadex acts like a ph. You never know how much it will convert per individual

A ph to what?

 

[Hyde]

A ph to what?

Titty-Be-Gone

 

[KvanH]

Titty-Be-Gone

By my n=1 trial, it didn't convert much.

 

[jim2509]

Ouch. I get what you mean though. I found the bottles of what I took last from Olympus and they were 110mg each. 3x a day and they weren’t nearly as expensive. I’ve been reading so much Into this that I’m going crossed eyed trying to find the right supps and then from the right place! My head hurts….. I guess that’s what I get from taking such a long break

How did you rate the cycle? Did a check of what supplements I have left in cupboard at weekend and I've got Icon 1 andro, some super mandro, Nano 1-T, OL 1 Andro along with Androtest (4 Diol) OL 4 andro, epi andro and a fair amount of Sarms (Lgd/Rad/Osta/Mk677).

The andros are pretty much near or past their sell by date.....considering working out using them on a 8 week or just using the Sarms as not overly sure which is more effective to be honest. Opinions vary alot on this.

 

[bouldershoulders]

I’ve used them a lot. Now I prefer injectables. But I’m all for using them for 3-4 weeks to kickstart a cycle.

 

[CROW 4D]

How did you rate the cycle? Did a check of what supplements I have left in cupboard at weekend and I've got Icon 1 andro, some super mandro, Nano 1-T, OL 1 Andro along with Androtest (4 Diol) OL 4 andro, epi andro and a fair amount of Sarms (Lgd/Rad/Osta/Mk677).

The andros are pretty much near or past their sell by date.....considering working out using them on a 8 week or just using the Sarms as not overly sure which is more effective to be honest. Opinions vary alot on this.

I did an 8 week cycle of 1, 4, and epi and then a 12 week cycle of 1, 19, and epi and they both worked well for me. I’ve nothing to base off of as those two cycles are the only time I’ve used anything other than typical natty supps. I don’t have any real data from my cycles but I know they helped me out a lot compared to trying to workout without them. I was coming off an injury and physical therapy and working out was very difficult before PH’s

 

[jim2509]

I did an 8 week cycle of 1, 4, and epi and then a 12 week cycle of 1, 19, and epi and they both worked well for me. I’ve nothing to base off of as those two cycles are the only time I’ve used anything other than typical natty supps. I don’t have any real data from my cycles but I know they helped me out a lot compared to trying to workout without them. I was coming off an injury and physical therapy and working out was very difficult before PH’s

Glad to see they helped you push on from injury and get back into the gym. Did you notice much physical change? Did you run them at 300mg? How was the sides anything noticable?

 

[cheftepesh1]

I’ve run several over the last few years. Several different combinations, but my favorite was topicals. Seemed to be more effective for me, plus I personally had less sides.

 

[CROW 4D]

Glad to see they helped you push on from injury and get back into the gym. Did you notice much physical change? Did you run them at 300mg? How was the sides anything noticable?

Biggest side for me was dry joint running 330mg a day 1 and 4 and 1000 of the epi. Other big side was skin allergy with the first topical. After 3 weeks I noticed a decent strength increase

 

[jim2509]

Biggest side for me was dry joint running 330mg a day 1 and 4 and 1000 of the epi. Other big side was skin allergy with the first topical. After 3 weeks I noticed a decent strength increase

Yeah the joint drying seems to be one of the most regularly reported sides. How much weight did you put on I those 8 weeks??

 

[CROW 4D]

Yeah the joint drying seems to be one of the most regularly reported sides. How much weight did you put on I those 8 weeks??

I honestly can’t remember. It was my first ever cycle and the biggest change wasn’t how much weight I gained but where I gained it. I also lost weight in other areas. And remember this was coming off an injury (motorcycle accident) so I wasn’t exactly in tip topshape to begin with.

 

[Quest]

A ph to what?

If I remember correctly, he said that the amount of the drug can vary a lot depending upon after you take it. I think it needs something from your liver? That's one of the reasons he suggests raloxofine.
I can't remember which video, probably a gyno video

 

[Smont]

If I remember correctly, he said that the amount of the drug can vary a lot depending upon after you take it. I think it needs something from your liver? That's one of the reasons he suggests raloxofine.
I can't remember which video, probably a gyno video

The amount of what drug tho, your liver breaks down these hormones and then they're converted into other hormones. But if there saying nolvadex is a ph then that would mean it converts into another hormone or something.

Example, halodrol is active on its own and some of it converts into tbol.

So nolvadex converts to what? In order to be a pro hormone it would have to convert into something else

 

[Quest]

I think what I'm trying to say is that whatever drug Nolvadex is before you ingest it is different and the amount it becomes after it passes can vary.

 

[Smont]

I think what I'm trying to say is that whatever drug Nolvadex is before you ingest it is different and the amount it becomes after it passes can vary.

I understand that, I'm asking if you know what they said nolvadex "turns into" after it's ingested and broken down. Il look up the nolvadex pharmacology stuff after work and see what I can find.

 

[Hyde]

I think what I'm trying to say is that whatever drug Nolvadex is before you ingest it is different and the amount it becomes after it passes can vary.

Who cares? It’s not significant enough in the doses you’ll use Tamoxifen to be relevant for anabolism in men, same as Clenbuterol. Both tamoxifen and raloxifene work well to prevent and treat gyno. Raloxifene works better (at much higher mg, mind you) and tamoxifen has strong LH-promoting effects making it a potent PCT option.

Both lower IGF-1 some, tamoxifen a little worse as I recall. Raloxifene does have positive effects on bone density. It just costs a lot more.

And if using tamoxifen in women, it’s in a bodybuilding contest prep to be drier & harder, so any possible ph conversion, if there was one, would be a positive in that context.

 

[Smont]

I understand that, I'm asking if you know what they said nolvadex "turns into" after it's ingested and broken down. Il look up the nolvadex pharmacology stuff after work and see what I can find.

Who cares? It’s not significant enough in the doses you’ll use Tamoxifen to be relevant for anabolism in men, same as Clenbuterol. Both tamoxifen and raloxifene work well to prevent and treat gyno. Raloxifene works better (at much higher mg, mind you) and tamoxifen has strong LH-promoting effects making it a potent PCT option.

Both lower IGF-1 some, tamoxifen a little worse as I recall. Raloxifene does have positive effects on bone density. It just costs a lot more.

And if using tamoxifen in women, it’s in a bodybuilding contest prep to be drier & harder, so any possible ph conversion, if there was one, would be a positive in that context.

I'm more just interested in what it converts to because I had no clue what converted to anything. I'm not looking to use it for what it converts to I'm just curious

 

[Hyde]

I'm more just interested in what it converts to because I had no clue what converted to anything. I'm not looking to use it for what it converts to I'm just curious

I’ve never heard anything about any conversion, but all kinds of things have funky metabolites so I wouldn’t dismiss the idea - I just also realize it doesn’t make a darn bit of difference, on a practical application front.

Like, nobody got jacked on 6-oxo solo, ya know?

 

[Smont]

I’ve never heard anything about any conversion, but all kinds of things have funky metabolites so I wouldn’t dismiss the idea - I just also realize it doesn’t make a darn bit of difference, on a practical application front.

Like, nobody got jacked on 6-oxo solo, ya know?

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. One of the problems with YouTube and the social Media stuff is they draw too much attention to the stuff that doesn't matter most of the time in too many people take it literal. Or get their hopes up on something that's not going to produce results

Cough, turkesteron, cough cough

 

[Quest]

I found the video

Go to 22:11.
Mmm general tsao chicken

 

[Quest]

A pro drug, it has to be metabolized into the active drug is what he said.

 

[Hyde]

A pro drug, it has to be metabolized into the active drug is what he said.

Well that’s many things that are useful. You don’t take NAC for NAC - you eat it because it contributes to glutathione levels.

 

[Smont]

A pro drug, it has to be metabolized into the active drug is what he said.

Ok that's different then a prohormone. Lots of things fall into the prodrug category. Aspirin is a prodrug, so is heroin lol

 

[Quest]

Ok that's different then a prohormone. Lots of things fall into the prodrug category. Aspirin is a prodrug, so is heroin lol

Yes I understand the difference. I should have said pro drug.

 

[joe123!]

Just slapped on a pump of Gear Cream lol so yes, I use PHs.

 

[Smont]

Just slapped on a pump of Gear Cream lol so yes, I use PHs.

You need about 4 pumps a day, 3 at bare minimum. anything less and your pretty much wasting your money, and negatively affecting your hormones without making any gains

 

[Ironpirate]

You need about 4 pumps a day, 3 at bare minimum. anything less and your pretty much wasting your money, and negatively affecting your hormones without making any gains

I was going to say 4 pumps every 12hrs would be decent, less than that would not be worth the shutdown.

 

[Smont]

I was going to say 4 pumps every 12hrs would be decent, less than that would not be worth the shutdown.

Those products are very misleading. Ppl see the 2 pump suggestion and think cool, it's gonna last 50 days. But they don't read how much hormone is in each pump, or what the effective doses actually are. You need like 4 bottles of that stuff to run a effective cycle

 

[Smont]

Andro cycles are expensive as fuk to make them worth while and even then they give small results. The only Andro that's really worth while in my opinion is epiandro. 300-600 TD or 900-1200 oral is some kick ass stuff

 

[Smont]

Andro cycles are expensive as fuk to make them worth while and even then they give small results. The only Andro that's really worth while in my opinion is epiandro. 300-600 TD or 900-1200 oral is some kick ass stuff

Gear cream has 75mg per pump lol

 

[jim2509]

Andro cycles are expensive as fuk to make them worth while and even then they give small results. The only Andro that's really worth while in my opinion is epiandro. 300-600 TD or 900-1200 oral is some kick ass stuff

Doesn't seem cost effective at all. Shame really as I've a stash of 1/4 in various guises but am probably better off just running sarms or lower dosed/range test cycle.

 

[Smont]

Doesn't seem cost effective at all. Shame really as I've a stash of 1/4 in various guises but am probably better off just running sarms or lower dosed/range test cycle.

Honestly, sarms are not cost effective either if you do them right and get real results, at least not the oral sarms. Lgd is probably the best sarm for putting on muscle, but how much do you really think 10-20mg of lgd will produce, not much. At 30-40mg it's decently strong but now your running 2 bottles a month for 2 months for a decent cycle. That's like $160, now if you want that cycle to be more effective and not potentially crush your estrogen you need 2 bttls of 4 Andro or 2 bottles of dermacrine, that's another $120. Now we're up to $280. If you ever run a cycle without some kind of ai on hand (unless you have already ran the cycle previously and know how you react) but if not you deserve a pair of tits. Exemestane $40 and clomid for pct $40.

Your properly ran 8 week sarm cycle just cost you about $360.

A bottle of test 300mg/ml $60
Exemestane $40
Clomid $40

Now you have a 10 week testosterone cycle for $140 that will give you similar yet slightly better results.
add in 50mg anadrol or dbol and you got a way stronger cycle and your still only at about $200-220

 

[KvanH]

Doesn't seem cost effective at all. Shame really as I've a stash of 1/4 in various guises but am probably better off just running sarms or lower dosed/range test cycle.

But if you already have a stash, then the cost effectiveness isn't really an issue (anymore). I have a decent stash of Andros too and I don't think it'll be a problem to find a use for them = )

 

[Smont]

But if you already have a stash, then the cost effectiveness isn't really an issue (anymore). I have a decent stash of Andros too and I don't think it'll be a problem to find a use for them = )

Ya if you already got them why not, I still pick up transdermal epiandro from time to time and use a little alongside my trt. I will occasionally do the same thing with sarms. Bump my trt up a little and add some lgd.

I just think sarm only and Andro cycles ppl think there just gonna buy this 1 bottle for $40-60 and it's gonna do something. At that point your just using a hormone for little to no results and messing with your hormones for no reason.

Too many ppl go about there sarm and prohormone cycles like there supplements. ( Oh dmz cost $69.99, I'm gonna buy a bottle and get huge) they gain 10-15lbs of water in 4 weeks and they think it's muscle just to watch it dissapear after pct. Most ppl will be lucky to add 10-15lbs of real muscle in a year blasting and cruising.

If the 4 week cycles added solid muscle weight then we all could just run superdrol 2x a year and in in 3 years we would look like a pro bodybuilder

 

[jim2509]

Honestly, sarms are not cost effective either if you do them right and get real results, at least not the oral sarms. Lgd is probably the best sarm for putting on muscle, but how much do you really think 10-20mg of lgd will produce, not much. At 30-40mg it's decently strong but now your running 2 bottles a month for 2 months for a decent cycle. That's like $160, now if you want that cycle to be more effective and not potentially crush your estrogen you need 2 bttls of 4 Andro or 2 bottles of dermacrine, that's another $120. Now we're up to $280. If you ever run a cycle without some kind of ai on hand (unless you have already ran the cycle previously and know how you react) but if not you deserve a pair of tits. Exemestane $40 and clomid for pct $40.

Your properly ran 8 week sarm cycle just cost you about $360.

A bottle of test 300mg/ml $60
Exemestane $40
Clomid $40

Now you have a 10 week testosterone cycle for $140 that will give you similar yet slightly better results.
add in 50mg anadrol or dbol and you got a way stronger cycle and your still only at about $200-220

Yeah I totally agree from the financial perspective let alone gains a test cycle is alot cheaper that's for sure.

I bought the stuff over last few years but was plagued with injuries so they have been gathering dust:

ICON One
Nano 1-T
Super Mandro
Androtest 4 Diol
OL Super 4

I suppose like KvanH says I could make use of them...maybe whack up the dose range for 8 weeks.
Got some Lgd/Rad kicking around too but at higher doses the sides are pretty much same as PH's.

 

[Smont]

Yeah I totally agree from the financial perspective let alone gains a test cycle is alot cheaper that's for sure.

I bought the stuff over last few years but was plagued with injuries so they have been gathering dust:

ICON One
Nano 1-T
Super Mandro
Androtest 4 Diol
OL Super 4

I suppose like KvanH says I could make use of them...maybe whack up the dose range for 8 weeks.
Got some Lgd/Rad kicking around too but at higher doses the sides are pretty much same as PH's.

Yep, sarms do work. But at the doses to see steroid like results you get steroid like side effects at 2-3x the price tag.

It's like that with everything. My first test cycle at 300mg I gained like 12lbs or something and looked much leaner too, now I can go from my trt dose of test to 300mg and add a sarm or something and it's cheap. But the results are small, il gain like 2-3lbs.

If I wanted to blast hard and try to put on 10-15lbs of actual muscle tissue next year I'd probably need about a gram of gear and some gh for 2 big blasts and that's 2 fairly expensive cycles. And even with those doses diet and training and everything's got to be perfect still.

I've got a few friends that are big as ****. Like when they walk in the room everyone's head turns. Well those guys probably spend 10k a year on gear and gh. And they live that bodybuilding lifestyle.

Unless you got Phil heath genetics, if someone wants to look like a legit heavyweight bodybuilder then they need to prepare themselves for that lifestyle with no screwing around and spending thousands on cycles 2-3 times a year. And the higher the doses get the more stuff you need to have on hand for possible side effects, you got $200 a week grocery bills just to feed your yourself.


It's not a poor man's lifestyle, but it might make you go poor lol

 

[jim2509]

Yep, sarms do work. But at the doses to see steroid like results you get steroid like side effects at 2-3x the price tag.

It's like that with everything. My first test cycle at 300mg I gained like 12lbs or something and looked much leaner too, now I can go from my trt dose of test to 300mg and add a sarm or something and it's cheap. But the results are small, il gain like 2-3lbs.

If I wanted to blast hard and try to put on 10-15lbs of actual muscle tissue next year I'd probably need about a gram of gear and some gh for 2 big blasts and that's 2 fairly expensive cycles. And even with those doses diet and training and everything's got to be perfect still.

I've got a few friends that are big as ****. Like when they walk in the room everyone's head turns. Well those guys probably spend 10k a year on gear and gh. And they live that bodybuilding lifestyle.

Unless you got Phil heath genetics, if someone wants to look like a legit heavyweight bodybuilder then they need to prepare themselves for that lifestyle with no screwing around and spending thousands on cycles 2-3 times a year. And the higher the doses get the more stuff you need to have on hand for possible side effects, you got $200 a week grocery bills just to feed your yourself.


It's not a poor man's lifestyle, but it might make you go poor lol

Ha that's so true. Friend of mine is the same....an absolute monster but he's paid the price with his health as well unfortunately. You can get some small keepable gains from the andros/sarms at the usual dosages but yeah financially it makes more sense to get maximised gains for your $.

I don't have Phil Heath genetics unfortunately

 

[Smont]

Ha that's so true. Friend of mine is the same....an absolute monster but he's paid the price with his health as well unfortunately. You can get some small keepable gains from the andros/sarms at the usual dosages but yeah financially it makes more sense to get maximised gains for your $.

I don't have Phil Heath genetics unfortunately

Me neither, the truth of the matter is that is you can use small doses of things to make small steady improvements. That's enough for most ppl. But large gains take large amounts of time with large amounts of drugs and food.

I'm not a big guy but I'm definitely not small in comparison to the the general public. I'm 5'9 190-200 lbs most of the time to have abs and 17in arm. If I wanna be 220+ with abs and 20in arms that means adding 20-30lbs of actual muscle tissue. A couple hundred milligrams of test and some sarms aren't going to get me there any time soon lol. I would have to spend a solid 2-4 years blasting some real cycles

 

[joe123!]

You need about 4 pumps a day, 3 at bare minimum. anything less and your pretty much wasting your money, and negatively affecting your hormones without making any gains

I just hit week three today and I've been using two pumps, I'm going to bump it to three. I'm only 180lbs.

 

[Smont]

I just hit week three today and I've been using two pumps, I'm going to bump it to three. I'm only 180lbs.

Your body weight has nothing to do with the dose, all these compounds have effective doses to make them work. At 2 pumps your getting 150 4andro and 150 epiandro. Those doses are not high enough to build muscle but they are high enough to start shutting down/suppressing your natural hormones. So your negatively affecting your natural hormones without supplying enough artificial hormones to do their job, understand what I'm getting at?

 

[Smont]

It's like if you wanted to start a cycle of testosterone and your body naturally produces say 900 levels, now you start injecting 50mg per week. That's going to leave you with lower than natural hormone levels even though you're taking a steroid. So you're actually going to lose muscle over time

 

[Smont]

Another example would be say you bought a sports car, and you took out the motor and put a smaller weaker motor inside of it. You took away with that sports car could already do and gave it something less to work with