who is telling the truth? so much conflicting advice.

[mrgeeky]

regarding comming off TRT I keep hearing conflicting advice.

I was always of the understanding that it was for life.. Once on, you have to stay on as after X amount of time (different time frame for different people) you will be shut down for life.

I was of the understanding that bodybuilders on test will stop a cycle/cruise after 4 months first time around.
Possibly 6 months second time around just to see how far out they can push their cycles before being shut down permanently from producing their own test.

But then I hear of people who have been on TRT for years talking about coming off it.

Whats the go.. Is it just more risky for bodybuilders due to the large amount of test they use compared to oldies just needing a top up?

How long can some one stay on TRT for before deciding to come off it? Is it possible to come off TRT after 5 years as an example or would that be way too late? Does any one know for sure, rather than just guessing?

 

[lboston]

Anyone could quit the TRT program. They would more than likely just return to their prior levels. Some are able to do a restart with Clomid and other things which can bring levels back to normal. However, for the hypogonadal male, normal is below the average or treatment would have never been applied.

Bodybuilders do "cycle" and go through post cycle therapy to bring their natural production back. Most all steroids will shut someone down to some degree-the severity differs.

TRT is typically for life as you have been shown to NEED supplemental T for quality of life/ medical purposes.

 

[kisaj]

Like what was said, there is nothing forcing you to stay on TRT, but if you are on it for true low test and not other symptoms being masked by low test, then you will go back to low test once you stop. Your quality of life is going to suffer because you know what it is like to have normal-high test. I think the comments about being "for life" simply mean that if you want your quality of life to exist as you know it today on TRT, you have to stay on it.

 

[lboston]

Like what was said, there is nothing forcing you to stay on TRT, but if you are on it for true low test and not other symptoms being masked by low test, then you will go back to low test once you stop. Your quality of life is going to suffer because you know what it is like to have normal-high test. I think the comments about being "for life" simply mean that if you want your quality of life to exist as you know it today on TRT, you have to stay on it.

Exactly!

 

[The Matrix]

Reason they may have been put on TRT in the beginning was due to uneducated Dr's who are just doing what they learned in med school. The new generation of Drs who are looking at the whole picture rather then just hormones (make up about 20-25% of the equation). As many are finding out TRT may be masking deeper issues which may or have reared their ugly head as time goes on. Many people are now waking up to the idea of they where never given an explanation of why they where put on TRT in the first place. The main reason was your hormones are low. Now people are starting to wise up and be more proactive about their health as a results there are asking "Why are my hormones low in the first place why not look for the source of the problem rather then using a bandaid effect similar to antidepressant (which is another story). As a person who has been dealing with these issues on a personal levels and know in a clinical setting for over 6 years, it is easy to see how these complex scenerios often have a simple solution if the medical professionals looks at the system as a whole. I use a system called PNEI which has been a huge asset in helping people along with their Dr's help to look for deeper issues which may have lead them to low levels in the first place. Some times it may take 4 months to prep a person for coming off on to a restart. My job along with the Dr is to create the optimal environment for that to occur. Remember not all cases are the same and age will play a factor, but a young person being put on TRT when greater then vast majority of cases I found never needed it in the first place. As mentioned before do not blame it on the dr's its what they are NOT being taught in school which is the issue.

 

[mrgeeky]

TRT

Reason they may have been put on TRT in the beginning was due to uneducated Dr's who are just doing what they learned in med school. The new generation of Drs who are looking at the whole picture rather then just hormones (make up about 20-25% of the equation). As many are finding out TRT may be masking deeper issues which may or have reared their ugly head as time goes on. Many people are now waking up to the idea of they where never given an explanation of why they where put on TRT in the first place. The main reason was your hormones are low. Now people are starting to wise up and be more proactive about their health as a results there are asking "Why are my hormones low in the first place why not look for the source of the problem rather then using a bandaid effect similar to antidepressant (which is another story). As a person who has been dealing with these issues on a personal levels and know in a clinical setting for over 6 years, it is easy to see how these complex scenerios often have a simple solution if the medical professionals looks at the system as a whole. I use a system called PNEI which has been a huge asset in helping people along with their Dr's help to look for deeper issues which may have lead them to low levels in the first place. Some times it may take 4 months to prep a person for coming off on to a restart. My job along with the Dr is to create the optimal environment for that to occur. Remember not all cases are the same and age will play a factor, but a young person being put on TRT when greater then vast majority of cases I found never needed it in the first place. As mentioned before do not blame it on the dr's its what they are NOT being taught in school which is the issue.

so if I understand what your saying. If some one is on TRT for say 3 or 4 years and want to come off, its entirely possible?
Heres' my problem, Im on trt and feel much better for it.
But Im not 100% sure that I need to be on it. I dont want to commit to being on it for life. As for now I am really enjoying the benefit of it so am happy to stay on. But not at the risk of being stuck on TRT for life.

I really need to know if I can stick with TRT for a while until I sort out whats going on. Get my diet right etc.

If there is a risk that my own test making abilities will be shut down for life then I need to get off this stuff asap..

I think its a fairly simple question but no one seems to be able to give me a definitive answer other than it differs from person to person.

If after a couple of years I have found that it was a mineral deficiency or if it was food allergies or my diet or something else that made me so lethargic and I decided ok, I'll go off the test and try out other alternatives, is it possible to come off it?
Or after a year or so are you stuck on TRT for the rest of your life.
Does your own piturity gland shut down and loose its TESTOSTERONE producing ability for ever when your on TRT for too long?

And yes I do know I should have looked at all options first, hey, just call me naive! Its been a learning curve for me.
Im on test now so cant change that. I dont want to just stop now if I dont have to as I dont want to go back to feeling like ****! But while Im feeling good, now is a chance to try to do some homework and see if there are other options for me... Are you able to give me your thoughts Matrix?

Can I stay on for a long length and still come off if I need too?

 

[DetroitHammer]

so if I understand what your saying. If some one is on TRT for say 3 or 4 years and want to come off, its entirely possible?
Heres' my problem, Im on trt and feel much better for it.
But Im not 100% sure that I need to be on it. I dont want to commit to being on it for life. As for now I am really enjoying the benefit of it so am happy to stay on. But not at the risk of being stuck on TRT for life.

I really need to know if I can stick with TRT for a while until I sort out whats going on. Get my diet right etc.

If there is a risk that my own test making abilities will be shut down for life then I need to get off this stuff asap..

I think its a fairly simple question but no one seems to be able to give me a definitive answer other than it differs from person to person.

If after a couple of years I have found that it was a mineral deficiency or if it was food allergies or my diet or something else that made me so lethargic and I decided ok, I'll go off the test and try out other alternatives, is it possible to come off it?
Or after a year or so are you stuck on TRT for the rest of your life.
Does your own piturity gland shut down and loose its TESTOSTERONE producing ability for ever when your on TRT for too long?

And yes I do know I should have looked at all options first, hey, just call me naive! Its been a learning curve for me.
Im on test now so cant change that. I dont want to just stop now if I dont have to as I dont want to go back to feeling like ****! But while Im feeling good, now is a chance to try to do some homework and see if there are other options for me... Are you able to give me your thoughts Matrix?

Can I stay on for a long length and still come off if I need too?

What came first, the chicken or the egg? That's a fairly simple question that will elicit millions of varying responses. Your question is very similar. You want to know if everything will be ok if you decide to come off TRT or will you be damaged for life? No one can answer that with 100% certainty. You should be able to re-start your natural production, which was low to begin with and will remain low if all you do is get off TRT and recover.

The risk of permanent shut down is real, but not likely. The longer you remain on TRT, in theory, the harder it will be to re-start. But no one knows how your body will respond to quitting TRT, no one.

Can you stay on it for a long time then come off like nothing happened? Probably. Any answer more definitive than "probably" is pure conjecture.

 

[mrgeeky]

thank you so much for that reply detroit hammer..
Its what i keep hearing and I think you have drummed it in to me.. Its finally sunk in.
If I understand you then yes, its possible to come off after a long time frame, but with no guarantees...
I do appreciate your help...

 

[The Matrix]

thank you so much for that reply detroit hammer..
Its what i keep hearing and I think you have drummed it in to me.. Its finally sunk in.
If I understand you then yes, its possible to come off after a long time frame, but with no guarantees...
I do appreciate your help...

One would have to look at the variables in the case in order to give a better explaination. As Fanspwr1 is finding out, you need to take care of the problem before trying to come off other wise most people are going to crash or not end up getting the proper response. I would prefer a person to run on LH analog or even clomid longer term because of the LH effect through out the body rather then endogenous of TRT if possible. The key is to look at the underlying issues which majority of top HRT Dr neglect. Many just focus on hormones, but as explained hormones are mainly expressions of deeper root issues which in some cases as many guys are finding out are being masked.

 

[mrgeeky]

not sure what you are saying.. Are you saying take clomid for longer when going through PCT?

 

[v4lu3s]

not sure what you are saying.. Are you saying take clomid for longer when going through PCT?

he is saying when you are actually addressing the underlying issue of why your test is low clomid can be used to stimulate testosterone as well as other hormones in the cascade that the clomid starts. working with a dr that can and will approach your health in its totality rather than as a list of symptoms you will find many other treatments that can work for you that are not as recognized by the main stream world of medicine where the focus is on instant gratification through pharmaceuticals.

for some people TRT is the only option, many others need to address the problems, whether it is dietary, lifestyle, GI issues, mineral/vitamin problems, or even disease or parasites. some people do actually have physical problems that make it impossible for them to produce enough hormones on their own to have quality of life. you got to find out which group you are in. TRT is just treatment of a symptom, its just like taking a tylenol for a headache every day but never finding out why you have headaches all day every day.

 

[mrgeeky]

he is saying when you are actually addressing the underlying issue of why your test is low clomid can be used to stimulate testosterone as well as other hormones in the cascade that the clomid starts. working with a dr that can and will approach your health in its totality rather than as a list of symptoms you will find many other treatments that can work for you that are not as recognized by the main stream world of medicine where the focus is on instant gratification through pharmaceuticals.

for some people TRT is the only option, many others need to address the problems, whether it is dietary, lifestyle, GI issues, mineral/vitamin problems, or even disease or parasites. some people do actually have physical problems that make it impossible for them to produce enough hormones on their own to have quality of life. you got to find out which group you are in. TRT is just treatment of a symptom, its just like taking a tylenol for a headache every day but never finding out why you have headaches all day every day.

So Clomid can be used SHORT TERM to kick start your own testosterone and possibly fix other underlying issues rather than using Testosterone LONG TERM?

 

[v4lu3s]

Clomid doesnt fix anything its just another medication that can be beneficial as it impacts your system at a different point and depending on what is going on may be of better benefit

 

[mrgeeky]

ok, you guys have got me totally confused.. Lets say Im just not bright enough to understand..
clomid sorts you out if you going on to PCT.
Test is to replace your own test which may have issues or be low..
Each has its place for a different reason..
Why would I want to take Clomid if my test is not functioning properly?
And whats the pro's and con's of taking clomid instead of test anyway..
And are you talking taking clomid short term to fix your ills or are you saying long term..
If its long term then whats the difference.. Just swapping one med for another..
Sorry, i just dont get what you guys are on about.

 

[kisaj]

I don't see how you are missing this. Test is used when you have ruled out all other variables and still cannot produce enough test to live a healthy life. It replaces what you are not producing naturally. Clomid can be used to "kick start" your own natural production if you are actually capable of producing enough test naturally but it is suppressed for some reason. This could be other issues, or it could be because you are on TRT and want to stop, but you body has stopped producing it's own natural test.

Some people get put on test prematurely because they didn't find out if there was something else causing low test that they could have addressed. If they had addressed this, then they may have been able to bring their own test up to normal levels rather than replacing it with external test.

 

[The Matrix]

not sure what you are saying.. Are you saying take clomid for longer when going through PCT?

I'm talking about people who are on hrt not the juice there is a difference.

 

[mrgeeky]

awesome post guys..
something I never knew or ever would have considered..
If that being the case, I wonder if its worth coming off hrt and trying to see what clomid will do for me?

 

[The Matrix]

awesome post guys..
something I never knew or ever would have considered..
If that being the case, I wonder if its worth coming off hrt and trying to see what clomid will do for me?

I prefer to look at other areas which need addressing before stopping hrt,

 

[mrgeeky]

Hi Matix, can I ask what areas in particular would that be?
Something I havent done was checked to see if I was deficient in zinc or iron etc..
My test level was 13 nmol/L but my doc thinks my test may not have been working so well.
So what other areas should I be looking at if I can ask?

 

[The Matrix]

Hi Matix, can I ask what areas in particular would that be?
Something I havent done was checked to see if I was deficient in zinc or iron etc..
My test level was 13 nmol/L but my doc thinks my test may not have been working so well.
So what other areas should I be looking at if I can ask?

Adrenal, thyroid, immune , environment , lifestyles, psychological/emotional, structural. neurological, biochemical, epigenetic are area where I explore. It is not an easy task and is very tedious and mind wrenching some times.

 

[mrgeeky]

ok well theres no way I can work that lot out then..
Looks like TRT is still high on my priority lol

cheers for the info matrix..