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Who believes in overtraining ?

getbig1974

New member
So I was looking for a new back workout routine and I found this guy Artemis dolgin based on his routine he is doing 38 sets in total for the back at 12 reps. No I know a lot of people believe in overtraining so I'd like people to input my belief is its too hard to maintain heavy weights with many sets and reps and I've tried similar workouts and they are exhausting you think he's bull****ing ? Just for publicity?

Check out this video on YouTube:

youtu.be/hSoyO0Ovj1Q

You have to add the http to the link
 
Well this counters the argument of progressive overload for weight training. It's impossible to max out on a regular basis to continue to increase weight overtime.
This is why powerlifters are from no one rep to the four bodybuilders are from the four rep range to the 12 reps range
Obviously the 4 to 8 range for bodybuilders is the power range. In theory most bodybuilders want to be lifting with an excess of 85% of your maximum to increased size and strength
I don't feel the 8 to 12 range is sufficient for increasing strength or size always
 
Artemis dolgen is on a ridiculous amount of gear. His advice on this topic is mute and means nothing he probably hasn't been natural in years and years. I have over trained. It happens way easier in a natural state and its not fun
 
He claimed he was natural till 1.5 years ago well that's his claim anyways I personally think he must be running lots of insulin and gh.
 
No he's been using gear way longer than that lol. I always laugh when people say overtraining is a myth. That would mean it's physically impossible to overtrain. So by that logic I could lift everyday for 8 hours a day eating 1000 calories and I couldn't overtrain. Ummm of course overtraining exists! If you can force overtraining to occur then it exists
 
So you're saying muscular development is contributed to central nervous system I may have to disagree on that one

That was the case we will be training till we got fatigued and then we'd all be huge
 
I think the idea is to try to figure out the right amount of training to break down muscle bring it back and get bigger
 
getbig1974 said:
So you're saying muscular development is contributed to central nervous system I may have to disagree on that one

That was the case we will be training till we got fatigued and then we'd all be huge
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No, I'm saying overtraining occurs from CNS fatigue and is not a muscular issue.
 
getbig1974 said:
Clarify what over training would be considered ? Please
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Overtraining has more to do with having a level of intensity beyond your recovery threshold. When I say intensity, I mean % of 1RM and this is, again, a CNS issue and not something that has to do with the volume for "chest."
 
Ok as much as I don't like this site here's a good article but still to my point about overtraining in my personal view is not allowing your muscle fibers to properly heal so you can tear them down and regrow the problem is I think many people believe that tearing the muscle down frequently more than once a week sets you up going catabolic and then losing muscle so my question should have been if going high volume sets once per week make you go catabolic? Or does frequency make you go catabolic? Here's a good read at least they have some studies and not bro science.

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From my understanding in this read they say frequency has been proven to increase hypertrophy and that overtraining is very unlikely for most people. One of the many reasons like most people I have gone to a 5 and 1 because doing a 3 day split is exhausting and not feasible for normal 90% of people so I can manage one muscle group a day with 20-30 sets without killing myself.

Also may I add I have tried almost every program over the last 20 years from HIT to 3 day splits to all of them. So I found every program has some merit but results have been mixed with most of them. I'm just as always with my ocd way trying to work smarter not harder.
 
Your personal view on overtraining is irrelevant; it's still wrong. Have you ever seen the frequency of a strongman, Oly lifter, or powerlifter? You think they're only hitting a group once per week? If you're so horribly out of shape that you can only hit a group once per week, then you need to increase your work capacity.
 
This is all irrelevant as long as you're toning to create long, lean muscles by implementation of muscle confusion methods. Anything else is basically a waste of time.
 
Rodja said:
Your personal view on overtraining is irrelevant; it's still wrong. Have you ever seen the frequency of a strongman, Oly lifter, or powerlifter? You think they're only hitting a group once per week? If you're so horribly out of shape that you can only hit a group once per week, then you need to increase your work capacity.
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Well most power lifts are fat IMO. I usually do a 5 and 1 off or I just skip my off day most of the time I'm not horribly out of shape in fact my sorry program has me looking better than 95% of the guys at the gym plus I have 20 years on them. And to your point I see guys in the gym spending twice as much time looking pretty sad so my point was as to general principles that assist people who are into bodybuilding that would be more effective. So you must be on Arnold's 3 day split and thus must look like him I assume? Or your saying that all guys including the Rock who uses a 1 body part a day for the most part is out of shape? Not really following what your saying here? Again o feel your argument is mostly bro science. Fatiguing your CNS is understandable but I don't see to many guys who break concrete all day fatiguing there CNS looking like bodybuilders again my point was to hypertrophy and overusing muscle fibers effective as to not deteriorate your muscle building. This leading to my question of high volume and frequency for hypertrophy would be a better question than a general "overtraining statement. "
 
Another "over training" thread directed towards muscle soreness ... Interdasting

Edit* does over training exist? Yes. But, you're talking about something that could take months maybe a year to recover from. Over reaching you can recover from in 3-7 days maybe quicker.

But, overtraining a muscle? C'mon...
 
getbig1974 said:
Well most power lifts are fat IMO. I usually do a 5 and 1 off or I just skip my off day most of the time I'm not horribly out of shape in fact my sorry program has me looking better than 95% of the guys at the gym plus I have 20 years on them. And to your point I see guys in the gym spending twice as much time looking pretty sad so my point was as to general principles that assist people who are into bodybuilding that would be more effective. So you must be on Arnold's 3 day split and thus must look like him I assume? Or your saying that all guys including the Rock who uses a 1 body part a day for the most part is out of shape? Not really following what your saying here? Again o feel your argument is mostly bro science. Fatiguing your CNS is understandable but I don't see to many guys who break concrete all day fatiguing there CNS looking like bodybuilders again my point was to hypertrophy and overusing muscle fibers effective as to not deteriorate your muscle building. This leading to my question of high volume and frequency for hypertrophy would be a better question than a general "overtraining statement. "
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Claims someone is using bro science; only cites bodybuilding as evidence.


Bodybuilding has nothing to do with overtraining. It's a central nervous system has from excessive fatigue. I don't see many bodybuilders training at the high end of their 1RM very often and that's why it's not a muscular issue. You think that the myriad of "shaping" exercises used by bodybuilders is really that taxing to the body? C'mon, man....
 
getbig1974 said:
Ok as much as I don't like this site here's a good article but still to my point about overtraining in my personal view is not allowing your muscle fibers to properly heal so you can tear them down and regrow the problem is I think many people believe that tearing the muscle down frequently more than once a week sets you up going catabolic and then losing muscle so my question should have been if going high volume sets once per week make you go catabolic? Or does frequency make you go catabolic? Here's a good read at least they have some studies and not bro science.

From my understanding in this read they say frequency has been proven to increase hypertrophy and that overtraining is very unlikely for most people. One of the many reasons like most people I have gone to a 5 and 1 because doing a 3 day split is exhausting and not feasible for normal 90% of people so I can manage one muscle group a day with 20-30 sets without killing myself.

Your personal view was held for many years by the bodybuilding community.. Problem is there's never been a study to support the point to where a person would train too frequently to the point where they would actually lose muscle mass.. This is why Rodja was saying that overtraining is not a muscular issue.. However, you could train too frequently at a high enough intensity to decrease performance as a whole (what rodja was talking about with the CNS) which would in turn impact the amount of training volume you can accumulate over a given workout/week/ training cycle which would not be optimal for hypertrophy since volume is the most associated training variable with hypertrophy. Frequency doesn't make you go catabolic, according to studies protein synthesis returns to baseline around 36 hours after training that muscle. So, if anything we should be training muscles more frequently than we have traditionally for optimal gains in hypertrophy. Working with a high amount of volume once per week won't be catabolic either, it just wouldn't be as optimal as hitting a muscle group every few days as opposed to having 6 or 7 days off in between hitting that muscle again. If you don't enjoy training like this that is fine but if you're asking what is the best for hypertrophy then training with higher frequency and splitting up the volume is your answer.
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i like a few of the overtraining series that I saw and enjoy the ones I use. I'm getting stronger for sure, but my bf% is still kinda high
 
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