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Which would you think inhibits estrogen more, Epiandro high does or 6 oxo high dosed?

JoePaul39

Well-known member
Have recently acquired some 6 oxo and so thinking of selling my oral Epiandro as I believe 100 mg transdermal 6 OXO would inhibit estrogen more and create more dht than 1000 mg oral Epiandro. Opinions? I say this because 6 OXO unlike Epiandro has an actual study behind it showing it does indeed significantly reduce estrogen and raise dht, however I know epiandro is known to do this as well.
 
DHT can act as a weak AI. it can also offset the epitest ratio and thus keep estrogens a bit lower. but that is nothing like a suicidal inhibitor.

think of DHT as more of an antagonist to estrogen receptors. I have always felt this would be the more accurate theory.

if it were that stronk you would hear about everyone using a DHT analogue crashing their estrogen, yet that clearly is not the case. and we dont even need to touch on how many analogues to DHT are out there.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
DHT can act as a weak AI. it can also offset the epitest ratio and thus keep estrogens a bit lower. but that is nothing like a suicidal inhibitor.

think of DHT as more of an antagonist to estrogen receptors. I have always felt this would be the more accurate theory.

if it were that stronk you would hear about everyone using a DHT analogue crashing their estrogen, yet that clearly is not the case. and we dont even need to touch on how many analogues to DHT are out there.
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Thanks for the useful info. Always learning something new on this board which is why I love it!
 
Well I know Apex’s 6 OXO is legit because I am pissing constantly from the DHT elevation enlarging my prostate (I’m 44) even with a full ML of Helios 100 and mg Cialis which usually does the trick to stop that even when on cycle with DHT steroids like Epistane. May have to add some Super Beta ProstAte or try 2 ML Helios 100 which I have never done that high of a dosage before.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
DHT can act as a weak AI. it can also offset the epitest ratio and thus keep estrogens a bit lower. but that is nothing like a suicidal inhibitor.

think of DHT as more of an antagonist to estrogen receptors. I have always felt this would be the more accurate theory.

if it were that stronk you would hear about everyone using a DHT analogue crashing their estrogen, yet that clearly is not the case. and we dont even need to touch on how many analogues to DHT are out there.
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list of suicide inhibitors? i think arimistane is one
 
any aromatase inhibitor would be considered "suicidal"

SERMs occupy an estrogen receptor, allowing estrogen to still circulate in the blood basically waiting to be filtered in piss and excreted.

aromatse inhibitors keep estrogen from being created. thus termed suicidal

from wiki:
In biochemistry, suicide inhibition, also known as suicide inactivation or mechanism-based inhibition
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
any aromatase inhibitor would be considered "suicidal"

SERMs occupy an estrogen receptor, allowing estrogen to still circulate in the blood basically waiting to be filtered in piss and excreted.

aromatse inhibitors keep estrogen from being created. thus termed suicidal

from wiki:
In biochemistry, suicide inhibition, also known as suicide inactivation or mechanism-based inhibition
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I think what we usually mean by suicidal AI is an irreversible AI, where the compound binds to aromatase entzyme and kind of 'kills it off', like 6-oxo, Exemestane does. Not suicidal AI's like Anastrozole, Letrozole bind to aromatase entzyme, but only occupy it for a while, and after the AI leaves the system, the same aromatase entzymes are again 'active'.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
any aromatase inhibitor would be considered "suicidal"

SERMs occupy an estrogen receptor, allowing estrogen to still circulate in the blood basically waiting to be filtered in piss and excreted.

aromatse inhibitors keep estrogen from being created. thus termed suicidal

from wiki:
In biochemistry, suicide inhibition, also known as suicide inactivation or mechanism-based inhibition
Click to expand...

I think some of the confusion with 6 OXO comes in to play because unlike Arimistane and other AI’s it is considered an AI AND a prohormone is it not?
 
KvanH said:
I think what we usually mean by suicidal AI is an irreversible AI, where the compound binds to aromatase entzyme and kind of 'kills it off', like 6-oxo, Exemestane does. Not suicidal AI's like Anastrozole, Letrozole bind to aromatase entzyme, but only occupy it for a while, and after the AI leaves the system, the same aromatase entzymes are again 'active'.
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accurate.
 
JoePaul39 said:
I think some of the confusion with 6 OXO comes in to play because unlike Arimistane and other AI’s it is considered an AI AND a prohormone is it not?
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according to PA It is devoid of any direct hormonal or prohormonal activity (androgenic or estrogenic). Its actions likely are similar to other AIs in that it raises LH and lowers SBGH, just to a higher degree. I think it's probably looked at like a PH because its powerful effects. (the Baylor study showed a 90% increase in free test and significant rises in exogenous DHT/test) I can see why people say that but I'm not sure its an accurate assessment
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
according to PA It is devoid of any direct hormonal or prohormonal activity (androgenic or estrogenic). Its actions likely are similar to other AIs in that it raises LH and lowers SBGH, just to a higher degree. I think it's probably looked at like a PH because its powerful effects. (the Baylor study showed a 90% increase in free test and significant rises in exogenous DHT/test) I can see why people say that but I'm not sure its an accurate assessment
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Do AIs typically increase DHT as the mechanism to reduce the estradiol?
 
JoePaul39 said:
Do AIs typically increase DHT as the mechanism to reduce the estradiol?
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maybe a little after a long hormonal cascade. like we see with use of pretty much any AI, in a direct result of lower estrogen, the body tries to balance the hormonal axis. in basic terms the body sense the higher testosterone and begins to metabolize both it and estrogen. this kind of why we hear of rebound gyno.
sometimes guys use a SERM that has a bunch of estrogen "managed". effectively nullifying its effects at the receptor level. this estrogen is still in circulation in a lot of instances. in particular any methyl-estro. when they quit using the SERM however, all the sudden the body senses the elevated estrogen and again, in an attempt to balance the HTPA, it raises test. test>produces a ton of aromatase to counter the extra testosterone and if the person isn't on top of things the already high estrogen combined with a bunch of test and aromatase, well it just a viscous out of control rollercoaster.

so back to your question, one of the things that happens to test is it conversion to DHT. right? so... after we pieced it all together above, it does in the end cause total hormonal manipulation in the big picture kind of way. does that make any sense?
 
Renew1 said:
I wasn't disagreeing with your post above ... I just didn't have time to read it right now.
:)
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I didnt think you were at all. in fact in the terms of his question we are both on point

your statement is the basix principal: what it does.

mine refers to the entire picture down stream as a result beyond the initial effect of the AI. the effects resulting from its effects ;)
 
Renew1 said:
I wasn't disagreeing with your post above ... I just didn't have time to read it right now.
:)
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OH and my statement on checks and balances was not directed at you~ it was a final statement to the one I said before yours! i was too lazy to edit and your post flew in between the two.

totally hilarious.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
OH and my statement on checks and balances was not directed at you~ it was a final statement to the one I said before yours! i was too lazy to edit and your post flew in between the two.

totally hilarious.
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Thanks.
I still haven't read it.
... On the road....
 
JoePaul39 said:
Well I know Apex’s 6 OXO is legit because I am pissing constantly from the DHT elevation enlarging my prostate (I’m 44) even with a full ML of Helios 100 and mg Cialis which usually does the trick to stop that even when on cycle with DHT steroids like Epistane. May have to add some Super Beta ProstAte or try 2 ML Helios 100 which I have never done that high of a dosage before.
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How many pumps were you using?
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I get what I need from 6 pumps per day. feels just like being on TRT to me.
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We have talked before and I definitely think my estrogen is jacked up from Enclomiphene and dhea…no bloodwork but high blood pressure, always retaining water and hold most my fat in my chest and lower abs. I’m trying tonnyke my estrogen at this point. Haven’t been to doctored in long time but finally got set up with a Primary care in July and will be getting full panel blood work.
 
BillD said:
How much 6-oxo “Arimahex” to control estrogen?
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Ai doses are very specific to each indiviual but 6 oxo is a little more forgiving then adex and the traditional ai's. I would just start at the recommended dose And tweak it up or down as needed.
 
Epi has an anti-estrogen effect thru a completely different mechanism than AIs. It binds to beta estrogen receptors. It's not a replacement for AIs but you should be careful even using it with 6 oxo.

As Smont said 6 oxo is definitely a forgiving AI and didn't cause me joint issues like some of them do. It was the only one that I could use on the front end of pct back when I did that.
 
BillD said:
We have talked before and I definitely think my estrogen is jacked up from Enclomiphene and dhea…no bloodwork but high blood pressure, always retaining water and hold most my fat in my chest and lower abs. I’m trying tonnyke my estrogen at this point. Haven’t been to doctored in long time but finally got set up with a Primary care in July and will be getting full panel blood work.
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I am also running enclo. Was at 12.5mg now bumped to 25 last 2 weeks. I think I’m in the estro boat w you.
 
yea interesting, cause we know how well clomid works for a lot of people. I may have to dig my heels in and see if I can find any info on whats happening with it.
 
If anyone is interested in numbers I just had blood work on 500mg of test/week and 30mg of Exemestane 3x week. I lowered my dose to 15mg 3x week.

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL - 3330
TESTOSTERONE, FREE - 1116.9
ESTRADIOL,ULTRASENSITIVE - 14
 
I would ask what you were preventing gyno from? If you are supplementing with AAS I would save Arimahex for PCT if you're going to run enclo ed. I personally run AIs during my cycles, but if you're already running elco, adding Arimahex might crash your estrogen.
 
ok well that helps. I recommend you run Kronos and Ursa Major, you shouldn't need anything for estrogen on that stack, if you stay light on Kronos dose you can run Enclo or Arimahex after. if you dose high you could deploy both after the cycle.

Kronos is king for recomp~
 
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