Which Of Today's Andros Are Even Useful?

210LBS

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This is a bit embarrassing. I haven't used an real PHs yet, but when I saw that they were being discontinued I started to buy them up because I planned on running a cycle in the future. They seemed to fit what I was looking for in the sense that they are mild (not interested in the stronger stuff) and good to get my feet wet. In hindsight, I may have went overboard when stocking up. I ordered 2 bottles of 1-andro (backed by a study, so figured I couldn't go wrong), 2 bottles of 4-andro (figured had to run with the 1-andro as test base), 2 bottles of 1,4-andro (don't know what I was thinking, can't find any reviews on it), and 2 bottles of 19nor-andro (don't know what I was thinking, can't find any reviews on it).

Combine all this with the fact that I have Halo and Pmag on the way and you can see my predicament. I am not cancelling Halo and Pmag, but I was considering cancelling some of the andros. Does anyone have any experience with 1,4-andro or 19nor-andro? I can't seem to find anything on them. I did read somewhere that oral 19nor is not effective.

Any ideas or comments for people who are looking to stock up last minute?
 
Whisky

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1 and 4 andro is a pretty standard mild stack mate. Epiandro is often added as well (im runming this at the moment for my first cycle)

Are you planning a first cycle?
 

210LBS

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1 and 4 andro is a pretty standard mild stack mate. Epiandro is often added as well (im runming this at the moment for my first cycle)

Are you planning a first cycle?
Yep planning a first cycle. I'm not interested in epiandro (fear of hair loss) and was actually thinking of just running a straight Halo cycle for my first cycle. I'm not sure if I need a test base for Halo and Pmag if I run them at reasonable doses. It seems like the lethargy is often user dependent from what I've seen.
 
Whisky

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Yep planning a first cycle. I'm not interested in epiandro (fear of hair loss) and was actually thinking of just running a straight Halo cycle for my first cycle. I'm not sure if I need a test base for Halo and Pmag if I run them at reasonable doses. It seems like the lethargy is often user dependent from what I've seen.
Unless you are pre disposed to male pattern baldness then I don’t think epiandro would be an issue re hair loss but obviously I can’t be 100% on that. Not used halo (assuming you mean proper halodrol and not the gaspari mix?) so cant comment on lethargy but you’ll find loads of threads on here with comment on it.....
 

210LBS

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Unless you are pre disposed to male pattern baldness then I don’t think epiandro would be an issue re hair loss but obviously I can’t be 100% on that. Not used halo (assuming you mean proper halodrol and not the gaspari mix?) so cant comment on lethargy but you’ll find loads of threads on here with comment on it.....
You're right about being predisposed, but unfortunately I am. I know hair loss is always a risk no matter what PH you take, but I'm just looking to minimize the effects as much as possible. And yes, I'm talking about the real Halodrol.
 
Whisky

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You're right about being predisposed, but unfortunately I am. I know hair loss is always a risk no matter what PH you take, but I'm just looking to minimize the effects as much as possible. And yes, I'm talking about the real Halodrol.
I guess you could take propecia to block the dht conversion.....i tbought that anything converting to test had the capacity to convert to dht so you may just have to fight through the lethargy....others can probably advise better though
 

210LBS

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I guess you could take propecia to block the dht conversion.....i tbought that anything converting to test had the capacity to convert to dht so you may just have to fight through the lethargy....others can probably advise better though
That's true. That's why a test base is also a problem if you're trying to save the hairline. That's why if I run 4-andro I want to run it low. Anything that converts to DHT and is highly androgenic presents a problem. Stupid genetics.
 
The_Old_Guy

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That's true. That's why a test base is also a problem if you're trying to save the hairline. That's why if I run 4-andro I want to run it low. Anything that converts to DHT and is highly androgenic presents a problem. Stupid genetics.
Yes, but if you think about it - when you were 20 with levels through the roof, you had much more 5aReductase to DHT than what 4-DHEA is going to reduce to, after whatever converts to T (two steps for that) and then DHT. That's my guess anyway :D You going to try 110mg of 4-DHEA?
 

210LBS

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Yes, but if you think about it - when you were 20 with levels through the roof, you had much more 5aReductase to DHT than what 4-DHEA is going to reduce to, after whatever converts to T (two steps for that) and then DHT. That's my guess anyway :D You going to try 110mg of 4-DHEA?
That's actually a good point and I've wondered about that in regards to hair loss as we get older. I've also thought about using some natural stuff like saw palmetto, stinging nettle, etc. at high doses while on cycle and PCT but a lot of people do not like the idea of blocking DHT (although they aren't usually afraid of hair loss and I'm sure the natural stuff is far less potent than anything you'd get from something like propecia anyway).

It's not easy to really gauge which PHs have caused hair loss in users based on reviews because most people don't seem to know how hair loss works. I've seen people complain of hair loss from 1-andro after losing 10 hairs per day after 4 days of use - that's just not how it works. So, unfortunately you just have to go by the science and put your best foot forward.

As for 4-andro, I was thinking about dosing it at 230mgs per day, which is actually far less than the people who use it up to 600mgs and even higher as a test base. But I may use just 1 pill at 115mgs, or maybe not even use it at all. Either way I'll have it on hand, but the original plan was to run it alongside 1-andro which I'd have dosed at 330mgs. I've also thought about throwing the 19nor and 1,4 andros into it, but I've found so few reviews on them that I may end up not even bothering with them. Or maybe I could run them alongside the Halo or Pmag. Either way, I definitely overbought for someone hasn't used PHs - haha.
 
irishiron300

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Run the 1/4 Andros at 330+ ed. Stay under 500 as I feel you’ll see diminishing returns. Epi Andro 750-1000ed. 8 wks.

I would not take the 4 at 115 for test base...leave the nor andro behind too.

The andro cycle for a first run should yield some keepable gains.

Pura Dor for natural hairline help. Nizoral 2% for the win.

Having your PCT lined up goes without saying.
 

210LBS

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Run the 1/4 Andros at 330+ ed. Stay under 500 as I feel you’ll see diminishing returns. Epi Andro 750-1000ed. 8 wks.

I would not take the 4 at 115 for test base...leave the nor andro behind too.

The andro cycle for a first run should yield some keepable gains.

Pura Dor for natural hairline help. Nizoral 2% for the win.

Having your PCT lined up goes without saying.
I'm not sure I really want to bother with the epiandro because of hair loss fears. Already using Rogaine. Do these shampoos really work?
 

210LBS

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1-Andro is really good and if you can find it Trenavol (6-KP)
You are really high on 6-KP. There is just something about a PH with no side effects that's fishy, but I'm running a 6 bottle cycle anyway.
 
AdelV

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Keep us updated, especially in-regards to hair loss.

Honestly I'd say SARMS are safer. LGD plus RAD or something. Yk-11 looks interesting aswell.
 
murman89

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SARMS have literally no long term health studies...and Yes I know the andros don't either. I get triggered when people call them "safe", since it will give a lot of noobs/youngins the wrong idea.
 
irishiron300

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I'm not sure I really want to bother with the epiandro because of hair loss fears. Already using Rogaine. Do these shampoos really work?
Gotcha. Then I’d stick with the 1/4 combo.

I feel the shampoos work, but everyone is different. Good luck!
 
AdelV

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SARMS have literally no long term health studies...and Yes I know the andros don't either. I get triggered when people call them "safe", since it will give a lot of noobs/youngins the wrong idea.
I meant safer in the hairline.
 
Mtaveras14

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I've tried liquid Sarms before , and it's just kinda scary buying them from research companies , because you don't know what they are really putting Sarms in those liquids. But what I got was supposedly LGD and I gained a lot of mass I looked amazing with S4 in the mix. but man they suppress your test levels cuz I had no Sex drive on them. Prohormones I've never tried but if you do them , just make sure you do them safely because I heard they r hard on the liver
 
Whisky

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Depends on the prohormone bro, 1 and 4 andro (and epiandro if you run the classic tri andro stack) aren’t methylated so no impact on liver. Methylated ones would need proper liver support though.

A 1/4/epiandro stack has absolutely destroyed my sex drive on cycle (which was always very high), been staggering how that’s dropped off. Missus probably enjoying the break from me pestering her though lol
 

Peanutbutterj

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Depends on the prohormone bro, 1 and 4 andro (and epiandro if you run the classic tri andro stack) aren’t methylated so no impact on liver. Methylated ones would need proper liver support though.

A 1/4/epiandro stack has absolutely destroyed my sex drive on cycle (which was always very high), been staggering how that’s dropped off. Missus probably enjoying the break from me pestering her though lol
I thought the point of 4-andro and epi-andro were to be a base of some sort and relieve the sides of 1Andro.
Is lethargy an issue for you too?
 
Whisky

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I thought the point of 4-andro and epi-andro were to be a base of some sort and relieve the sides of 1Andro.
Is lethargy an issue for you too?
Yeah they are so god only knows what it would be like without. In 7 weeks I’ve had about 2 weeks where I could feel the lethargy but only about 2 days where it was affecting me doing other stuff.

Generally speaking no sides have been that bad overall, noticeable but easily bearable imo.
 

Peanutbutterj

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Yeah they are so god only knows what it would be like without. In 7 weeks I’ve had about 2 weeks where I could feel the lethargy but only about 2 days where it was affecting me doing other stuff.

Generally speaking no sides have been that bad overall, noticeable but easily bearable imo.
Nice
 

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