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Which creatine to buy ?

Auslifter said:
are you joking?

1000mg Arginine Nitrate vs 500mg beet roots
500mg Agmatine
2000mg (L-Citrulline) *stomps pre jym even at 1 scoop* of (3000mg Cit Malate)
AmentoMax (strength / focus)
Hydromax (hydration and pumps, even at 1 scoop theres some in the 1 scoop of ergonine to make up for it)

ergonine = full doses at 1$ (US a day) (32$) (30 serves)
high volume (18 servings at 2, 36 at 1), (32$ ~)
caffiene cheap as chips (5-10$)

total = 69$ ~ (you get way more and better ingridents geared towards performance, compared
to pre jym hands down.)

pre jym (20 servings) * 34$ x2 tubs = 68$ (40 serves)

get off jym's python bro
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Haha calm your tits bro. You compared the two and they are both good products but still didn't say what wasn't dosed properly in pre jym.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Auslifter

1 scoop alphamine, 150mg dmba 1 scoop of conqu3r stim free had me feeling beastly today. Buying moar of this stuff.
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it's legit, i hope it sticks around here for a while and isn't canned for a bit.

Matthandyo said:
Haha calm your tits bro. You compared the two and they are both good products but still didn't say what wasn't dosed properly in pre jym.
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creatine 2g? and at the hcl version lol, beta alanine 2 vs the 3 ;) / the rest of the ingredients won't match up to HV or ergonine's for performance IMO.
 
Auslifter said:
it's legit, i hope it sticks around here for a while and isn't canned for a bit.



creatine 2g? and at the hcl version lol, beta alanine 2 vs the 3 ;) / the rest of the ingredients won't match up to HV or ergonine's for performance IMO.
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...
.
 
Well I'm taking his post so that has me at 4 grams hcl. And beta alanine at 4 gs
 
Matthandyo said:
Haha calm your tits bro. You compared the two and they are both good products but still didn't say what wasn't dosed properly in pre jym.
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Bro my pre workout is better than yours


;)
 
I'm only taking the active matrix nor the 32grams of dextrose. And that cereal looks like it would be disgusting
 
Data on oral COP is almost non-existent (Injectable COP as a Cardio Protective was abandoned actually) - unless you have some data that isn't about Italian flu symptoms. Just finishing up a bottle of Amentoflavone, won't be re-stocking. Peppermint? Fresh breath? 2g of L-Citulline looks a little under dosed. Multiply by 1.76 and that amount of CM is just as good - better actually, as the ONLY study on athletic pre-workout, was Citrulline Malate:

h t t p : / / w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

Trial Design Double Blind
Trial Length 1-7 Days
Number of Subjects 41
Gender Male
Ages 18-29, 30-44
Body-Types Trained, Average

Notes for this Study:
Supplementation with 8g citrulline (as malate, with 10g sugar that was also used in placebo condition) during a weight lifting protocol (perform as many reps as possible until fatigue for multiple sets) noted that citrulline was able to delay fatigue and promote more reps performed per set for all sets except the first two and reduced post-workout muscle soreness.
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Ariel et. Al. (1972) “Anabolic Steroids: The Physiological Effects of Placebos,” Medicine and Science in Sports, vol. 4, 124–26.

Fifteen male lifters were put on a strength training plan, and were told that the ones who made the best progress during the first phase of training on seated shoulder press, military press, and bench press would be chosen to use steroids for four weeks to evaluate their effects.

So, these guys trained as hard as they could for 4 weeks to get free, legal steroids. The 6 guys who made the best progress gained an average of 11kg between the three lifts, and were selected for the “steroid” trial.

They were told they were being given 10 mg/day of Dianabol, but, in fact, they were given a placebo pill.

So, they made similar gains to the first phase, right? Maybe a little extra because of the placebo effect?

Nope.

They gained an average of 45 kg (about 100 pounds) between their three lifts. They didn’t report the breakdown per lift, but that’s probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 pounds on the bench, and 30 apiece on seated and military press. That’s in contrast to 24 pounds TOTAL in the first four weeks between all three lifts.

All because they THOUGHT they were on steroids.
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^ How the supplement industry survives, for the most part ^

No skin in either camp - I make my own PrWO, but at least put the science behind some of these ingredient recommendations.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Data on oral COP is almost non-existent (Injectable COP as a Cardio Protective was abandoned actually) - unless you have some data that isn't about Italian flu symptoms. Just finishing up a bottle of Amentoflavone, won't be re-stocking. Peppermint? Fresh breath? 2g of L-Citulline looks a little under dosed. Multiply by 1.76 and that amount of CM is just as good - better actually, as the ONLY study on athletic pre-workout, was Citrulline Malate:

h t t p : / / w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132



^ How the supplement industry survives, for the most part ^

No skin in either camp - I make my own PrWO, but at least put the science behind some of these ingredient recommendations.
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lol that's a pretty neat study. however what were there stats / lifts prior? sounds like they were beginners making noob gains
 
They were pre-season football players IIRC - not noobs. There's another one from 2000 on Power Lifters - same deal, lemme see if I can find it.

Edit: Got it:

Maganaris et. Al. (2000) “Expectancy effects and strength training: do steroids make a difference?” Sport psychologist, vol. 14, no. 3, 272-278.

Eleven national level powerlifters were given a saccharine pill before they maxed on squat, bench, and deadlift. They were told that it was a fast-acting steroid

(as an aside – this study was conducted in 2000. These guys should have known that, even if they WERE taking steroids, it’s not going to have any major effect that quickly. Oh well. Research can control for a lot of things, but it can’t control for stupid, it seems.)

They immediately beat their old PRs by an average of about 4-5% (and since we’re talking about national level lifters, that means we’re probably talking about at least 50-100 pounds on their total).

They were given more sham “steroids” for the next two weeks of training, after which they maxed again. Except…

Five were informed that they’d been taking a placebo the whole time, while six still believed they were taking legit steroids.

The five who knew the truth regressed back to their old “pre-steroid” maxes. They couldn’t even hit the PRs they’d set two weeks before, even though they knew that they were drug-free for those maxes too! They didn’t just fail to make more placebo gains – they lost their initial gains as well.

This was in spite of the fact that they’d reported lifting heavier weights in the gym or doing more reps with certain weights during the two intervening weeks. They knew their training was going better, they knew they’d hit bigger lifts drug-free before, but they just couldn’t put up as heavy of weights knowing that they didn’t have drugs in their systems.

The six who still thought they were juicing managed to hit new PRs again!
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ITT: Lots of people comparing products that are marketed at a nearly completely different audience.

Also ITT, people repeatedly mocking things like 'creatine hcl' as 'bunk' when creatine hcl is actually higher creatine content by weight than monohydrate, and when hydrochlorides are in fact absorbed better.

Is Pre-Jym the best preworkout? Nah

Is it better than 90% of the dog**** preworkouts that companies shill on that other forum? Absolutely.
 
T-Bone said:
Why not make an informed decision based on your research and intelligence instead of just asking other people what to take?
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I didn't ask them what to take. I asked for their opinion of what would be a better pre workout. I'm open to trying a different pre workout, I just really like pre jym.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Im not here to push products on you. But, a pwo should be something that ACUTELY enhances you workout, what does Jym have caffeine and low dose of alpha-GPC..cool story bro.
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Build HD is another great option that includes Alpha-GPC

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De__eB said:
ITT: Lots of people comparing products that are marketed at a nearly completely different audience.

Also ITT, people repeatedly mocking things like 'creatine hcl' as 'bunk' when creatine hcl is actually higher creatine content by weight than monohydrate, and when hydrochlorides are in fact absorbed better.

Is Pre-Jym the best preworkout? Nah

Is it better than 90% of the dog**** that companies shill on that other forum? Absolutely.
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Lol i don't know if this first comment was aimed at me?? But you are right about the second bit.

I still stand by what i said about a pwo should acutely increase performance vs whats ingredients mostly in Jym.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Lol i don't know if this first comment was aimed at me?? But you are right about the second bit.

I still stand by what i said about a pwo should acutely increase performance vs whats ingredients mostly in Jym.
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A pre-workout also shouldn't just be a bunch of stimulants half-haphazardly thrown together....Like a certain pre that everyone raves about exclusively on one certain message board...
 
T-Bone said:
A pre-workout also shouldn't just be a bunch of stimulants half-haphazardly thrown together....Like a certain pre that everyone raves about exclusively on one certain message board...
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As long as T-Bone has his Stimul8 all is o.k. He LOVES that stuff.:laugh::laugh:
 
De__eB said:
ITT: Lots of people comparing products that are marketed at a nearly completely different audience.

Also ITT, people repeatedly mocking things like 'creatine hcl' as 'bunk' when creatine hcl is actually higher creatine content by weight than monohydrate, and when hydrochlorides are in fact absorbed better.

Is Pre-Jym the best preworkout? Nah

Is it better than 90% of the dog**** preworkouts that companies shill on that other forum? Absolutely.
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ayyyy well i called that one so not afraid to say i was wrong but I think i will stick with mono or anhydrous.
T-Bone said:
A pre-workout also shouldn't just be a bunch of stimulants half-haphazardly thrown together....Like a certain pre that everyone raves about exclusively on one certain message board...
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inb4 Bostin loyd's freak juice
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Data on oral COP is almost non-existent (Injectable COP as a Cardio Protective was abandoned actually) - unless you have some data that isn't about Italian flu symptoms. Just finishing up a bottle of Amentoflavone, won't be re-stocking. Peppermint? Fresh breath? 2g of L-Citulline looks a little under dosed. Multiply by 1.76 and that amount of CM is just as good - better actually, as the ONLY study on athletic pre-workout, was Citrulline Malate:

h t t p : / / w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132






^ How the supplement industry survives, for the most part ^

No skin in either camp - I make my own PrWO, but at least put the science behind some of these ingredient recommendations.
Click to expand...

I can see where you are coming from, however have you ever tried Katana? You can argue that im experiencing placebo all you want but i am very objective in how i go about my training and generally know whether something is placebo or not, particularly when the effects I notice are chronic.

I agree COP has a lack of data however I have tested and used it solo with various dosages and enjoyed its effects. My experiences with Conqu3r have been only positive and it deffinitely has a consistent positive effect on my performance.
 
LOL this thread reminded me of many a moon ago.

CEX

I think VPX made it. I struggled telling people I was taking 'sex' for my creatine....
 
My first ever creatine was creatine phosphate by champion's edge, then liquid aloe suspension by socal sports. I blew probably 10k on socal sports in the 90s
 
NoAddedHmones said:
I can see where you are coming from, however have you ever tried Katana? You can argue that im experiencing placebo all you want but i am very objective in how i go about my training and generally know whether something is placebo or not, particularly when the effects I notice are chronic.

I agree COP has a lack of data however I have tested and used it solo with various dosages and enjoyed its effects. My experiences with Conqu3r have been only positive and it deffinitely has a consistent positive effect on my performance.
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I'm a huge COP fan. How did you dose?
 
Matthandyo said:
I didn't ask them what to take. I asked for their opinion of what would be a better pre workout. I'm open to trying a different pre workout, I just really like pre jym.
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If you like pre gym keep taking it bro. No sense in changing it if you like it. Try to get some samples here and there and try em out. But keep the prejym if it works. Hes got a solid formula there.
 
My new pre workout stack : Pow3rd 2.0 + Myprotein AAKG + Myprotein Beta alanine + Creapure + GMS + BCAA :) my previous pre was mammoth pump with 1500mg beta alanine and i never ever felt tingles even with 3 scoopes, but now omg with 3g ants all over the face :) ok lets go to the gym baby!
 
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