What sarms?

Billcarter02

New member
What sarms if any completely offset catabolism when un a defecit or whats the best cycle for cutting and preserving muscle mass.
 
I dont have the answer it I'm in to hear it. This is the only reason right now I would use SARMs and that's to protect my acquired gains during a cut/recomp without wanting all the negatives from a full AAS.
 
Ostarine was designed for this, and lgd was designed to accrue new muscle tissues in such a condition. Stacking both is a match made in heaven.

Just gonna go with my experience and say if you’re not going to take 20mg+ of lgd along with 40mg+ osta then you will be wasting both time and money on sarms.
 
Old Witch said:
Ostarine was designed for this, and lgd was designed to accrue new muscle tissues in such a condition. Stacking both is a match made in heaven.

Just gonna go with my experience and say if you’re not going to take 20mg+ of lgd along with 40mg+ osta then you will be wasting both time and money on sarms.
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My lil bro did some sarms runs in the past year. Lgd is 20mg bare minium. I find it funny ppl will regular take 50-100 anadrol or dbol but think that dose of sarms sounds nuts.
 
Osta is very good at it altho I don’t like the sarm that much but that’s personal! GW and SR are very good at it too. As witch said above adding LGD At 20+ mg will help.
 
Smont said:
My lil bro did some sarms runs in the past year. Lgd is 20mg bare minium. I find it funny ppl will regular take 50-100 anadrol or dbol but think that dose of sarms sounds nuts.
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Yeah I find it funny too. And then they get all scared of it and take maybe 10mg instead. That’s a pretty wide cognitive dissonance.

Sarms are undoubtedly less toxic than oral steroids, and far far far less risky. Used correctly they can be easily as powerful as something like anadrol in muscle tissues, without nearly the side effects.

Now that’s not to say there’s zero sides, but a mild acne is likely all that will occur, mainly because youre utilizing less of your free testosterone to bind to skeletal muscle tissue. Compared to anadrol, a little acne is nothing.
 
Old Witch said:
Yeah I find it funny too. And then they get all scared of it and take maybe 10mg instead. That’s a pretty wide cognitive dissonance.

Sarms are undoubtedly less toxic than oral steroids, and far far far less risky. Used correctly they can be easily as powerful as something like anadrol in muscle tissues, without nearly the side effects.

Now that’s not to say there’s zero sides, but a mild acne is likely all that will occur, mainly because youre utilizing less of your free testosterone to bind to skeletal muscle tissue. Compared to anadrol, a little acne is nothing.
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You might be the first senior member that is such a proponent of sarms, kinda refreshing.
 
Davy25 said:
You might be the first senior member that is such a proponent of sarms, kinda refreshing.
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I might be the only one who has been willing to up the doses that high. So far. I swear it’s fantastic. Completely changed my mind. I had tried them earlier this year, at lower doses, solo, for less time. Could definitely notice effects during training but that was all. Seemed like something to stack and high dose, so I thought I’d try that and hope for the best.

I am very happy with my findings and am looking forward to the full commitment of doing this stack again for my original intended length of 20 weeks. I assume after 12weeks I might think about adding hcg, since I made it to week 7 on this before I had to jump off for this abscess tooth, and am not even one iota suppressed. In fact while On that stack I had such extreme nitrogen retention I was getting hardons that wouldn’t go away, my loads got BIGGER, and have remained as such for the past 2.5- three days since stopping. So there’s not a massive crash, though those boners went away after stopping the lgd, staying on osta a couple days at 66mg after and then ceasing, mainly to assess he drop off in effect and test the increase of osta dosage in comparison. Training went back to normal. I don’t expect a sharp downturn to below baseline strength. I did have some gyno symptoms, early this morning/late last night. They’re gone. No ancillary whatsoever. Kind of doing the dirty deed nobody wants to do. Sarms, high dose, long run, no pct.

Why would I do this to myself, risking future health for data? Because I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to further this sport in any way I can do. Especially if it helps beginners.

I’ll know in a few weeks, but so far my official opinion is that sarms lgd4033 and mk2866 in high doses, are firstly far more effective than Andros at any dose, and are even mild enough suitable for beginners to anabolic compounds. Having tried all of the above.

I’d compare the stack I took to high dose 1-AD in effect and possibly even milder in safety. Undoubtedly it works, and quite well. You’re not going to gain 50lbs in a couple of months but you’ll definitely be lifting heavier, tiring less, recovering more, eating more, orgasmic all day pumps guaranteed. It’s really fantastic.
 
I think you can achieve what your looking for with a very low dose of yk11 (5-10mg). It is essentially a mild AAS rather than a sarm. Just a warning though, at only 6mg it raised my blood pressure to very unhealthy levels and also gave me some pretty intense mood swings. On 22mg of lgd I had no side effects but then I’d add only 6mg of yk11 and within hours my blood pressure would skyrocket. But with the side effects came great strength and endurance. Some people can handle yk up to 20+ mg a day though.
 
YoungThor said:
I think you can achieve what your looking for with a very low dose of yk11 (5-10mg). It is essentially a mild AAS rather than a sarm. Just a warning though, at only 6mg it raised my blood pressure to very unhealthy levels and also gave me some pretty intense mood swings. On 22mg of lgd I had no side effects but then I’d add only 6mg of yk11 and within hours my blood pressure would skyrocket. But with the side effects came great strength and endurance. Some people can handle yk up to 20+ mg a day though.
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I would not at all recommend yk11 to someone new to sarms or anabolics, no offense. It’s got way too many mental side effects, first off, and it’s still pretty dangerous regardless of its selectivity. Remember it is a liver toxic methylated 19-nor steroid and you can’t run it past six-eight weeks.

I tried it earlier this year, and to be honest I was impressed but I’m not raving and raving about it the way I am this 2 sarm stack, for good reason.


Oh man, when I go back on that stack I’m going to add some yk11. That would be a suitable kickstart for the first month. As you might have seen me say before the sarms were going to slingshot into a pin cycle of test for another 20 weeks, so I’d have been blasting for 40 weeks total, ten months, in an attempt to make up for about a decade off of gear and training. I’m like the amateur version of Kevin Levrone except not as cool.

That might seem insane by this forum’s standards but in the realm of the sports we enjoy it’s actually not that bad. Especially at the low doses (in my opinion) I’ll be using. And I do plan to compete, so this is a career choice.
 
The only thing they don’t offer is that strong “on” feeling mentally. In fact I found myself remembering “oh yeah, I’m not on steroids” when I didn’t react a certain way or as quickly to something.
 
They all build muscle without shutdown if you run a test base. Yk11 works fine with my LGD Mk677 stack, excited to add in s23 final 4 weeks. I enjoy SARMs for the lean dry gains.
 
Borashi said:
They all build muscle without shutdown if you run a test base. Yk11 works fine with my LGD Mk677 stack, excited to add in s23 final 4 weeks. I enjoy SARMs for the lean dry gains.
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A Test base won't keep you from getting shut down. If anything, it will only increase shutdown. It can help mitigate some of the side effects from shutdown (while running it) however.
 
Lgd and osta won’t fully shut you down during a normal cycle length unless you’re already naturally compromised somehow, they will however suppress your natural production to a degree. That degree of course is time and dosage based. And genetics... everyone is different.
 
Borashi said:
Only mental sides from yk11 for me is increased Aggression. Nothing else notable.
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Yeah, the amount of increase is notable enough I wouldn’t recommend to a new guy.

I also figured out why yk11 is agreeable with me for the most part: it’s a 19-nor so it shouldn’t, but then it’s also 5a reduced, and then there’s a double bond at c1-2...

It’s 17a methyl 1-nandrolone with a selective attachment. It’s pretty damn perfect.
 
Renew1 said:
A Test base won't keep you from getting shut down. If anything, it will only increase shutdown. It can help mitigate some of the side effects from shutdown (while running it) however.
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This thread is getting some bro sarm science.
Thanks for saying this.
 
Borashi said:
They all build muscle without shutdown if you run a test base. Yk11 works fine with my LGD Mk677 stack, excited to add in s23 final 4 weeks. I enjoy SARMs for the lean dry gains.
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Running a test base does not prevent shutdown, it stops you from feeling the shutdown. You still need pct to recover
 
It’s never good to go into a cycle thinking something isn’t going to affect you negatively. You absolutely must just assume everything will mess you up and that you’ll need some form of pct whatever that means to you. And you’ll know what that should be based on blood work and also how you feel, because if you feel like **** obviously you’re not normalized yet.
 
Old Witch said:
I might be the only one who has been willing to up the doses that high. So far. I swear it’s fantastic. Completely changed my mind. I had tried them earlier this year, at lower doses, solo, for less time. Could definitely notice effects during training but that was all. Seemed like something to stack and high dose, so I thought I’d try that and hope for the best.

I am very happy with my findings and am looking forward to the full commitment of doing this stack again for my original intended length of 20 weeks. I assume after 12weeks I might think about adding hcg, since I made it to week 7 on this before I had to jump off for this abscess tooth, and am not even one iota suppressed. In fact while On that stack I had such extreme nitrogen retention I was getting hardons that wouldn’t go away, my loads got BIGGER, and have remained as such for the past 2.5- three days since stopping. So there’s not a massive crash, though those boners went away after stopping the lgd, staying on osta a couple days at 66mg after and then ceasing, mainly to assess he drop off in effect and test the increase of osta dosage in comparison. Training went back to normal. I don’t expect a sharp downturn to below baseline strength. I did have some gyno symptoms, early this morning/late last night. They’re gone. No ancillary whatsoever. Kind of doing the dirty deed nobody wants to do. Sarms, high dose, long run, no pct.

Why would I do this to myself, risking future health for data? Because I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to further this sport in any way I can do. Especially if it helps beginners.

I’ll know in a few weeks, but so far my official opinion is that sarms lgd4033 and mk2866 in high doses, are firstly far more effective than Andros at any dose, and are even mild enough suitable for beginners to anabolic compounds. Having tried all of the above.

I’d compare the stack I took to high dose 1-AD in effect and possibly even milder in safety. Undoubtedly it works, and quite well. You’re not going to gain 50lbs in a couple of months but you’ll definitely be lifting heavier, tiring less, recovering more, eating more, orgasmic all day pumps guaranteed. It’s really fantastic.
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I would be interested in a log of this high dosed long Sarm cycle you currently are on. Is there one? If not, can you start one?
 
Absolutely. This is why I'm running a Serm thru entire 12 week cycle. With the goal of minimizing suppression. Others have successfully maintained test levels thru cycle by doing this. I also drink at least a gallon of water a day, I take 3-4k NAC, 1k tudca, with amiricarepro and rich pianas organ liver defender. I try to be as prepared as possible going into a cycle. Anything could happen and you have to be willing to adapt. My prior cycle only lasted 8 weeks as I started to suffer from signs of suppression, lethargy and mentally it was messing with my head. Two weeks into PCT, I was back to normal. Listen to your body, have realistic expectations, eat clean, lift heavy, keep it simple.
 
JoePaul39 said:
I would be interested in a log of this high dosed long Sarm cycle you currently are on. Is there one? If not, can you start one?
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I had to come off on Sunday. Abscess tooth. I’ll do another one just like it and start a real log of it. Soon.

Remember, I disclaim myself in my signature. Never do exactly what I do, just listen to my advice if I give it. I’m not taking real time off, I will be staying on too long, I will be back to back blasting with several compounds, I will be abusing my health.

Is that what a high dose of these two specific sarms equates to? No. Absolutely not. I am fully confident in the findings of the available studies, and my own experiences correlate to those. They are not significantly liver toxic as would correlate with an oral steroid. They do cause some degree of liver inflammation much like an oral steroid, however it seems to be a lesser degree one might associate with some non methylated steroids. They may or may not change lipid profiles in some individuals, much like steroids.

As far as suppressive ability, obviously test is the gold standard of suppression. It’s not light. It shuts your own test down completely in just a couple of weeks at just about any meaningful dose basically once it’s kicked in. And of course many are worse (deca, tren) as far as both how quickly and how fully they disengage the testes.

These two sarms are shown both in the known studies, in my experience, and in the experiences of so so so many people I’ve talked to now, to be significantly less suppressive than that, comparable to a similar dose of anavar or less. So that’s why I say they will suppress to a degree but it’s not going to be predictable or complete. It could be 90%, could be 40%, could be 0.001%

Now if I can see a study which shows severe and long lasting impairment of the testes much like prolonged atrophy may produce, hell if I can even see a study that shows atrophy at all, I’ll change my tune about that part. Still worth it. They’re stronger than I’d say about 90% of the members here can imagine once you hit the effective dosages.

It’s almost like a practical joke when they kick in, because I really really didn’t expect much at all.

I’m going to stop beating this horse now.
 
But just for the record and for any newbies on this thread that are considering taking sarms they suppress your testosterone production Point Blank. You're going to need a serm afterwards just like you would with steroids. Sarms are legal but have way less study behind them. Steroids are illegal and have about 50 years of study behind them. 30 mg of lgd and 40 mg of ostarine for 12 weeks is going to have you suppressed lots of people will be shut down. I really like the idea of running a serm the whole time that's what I would do if I was going to run a sarm cycle and PCT afterwards.
 
Cgkone said:
But just for the record and for any newbies on this thread that are considering taking sarms they suppress your testosterone production Point Blank. You're going to need a serm afterwards just like you would with steroids. Sarms are legal but have way less study behind them. Steroids are illegal and have about 50 years of study behind them. 30 mg of lgd and 40 mg of ostarine for 12 weeks is going to have you suppressed lots of people will be shut down. I really like the idea of running a serm the whole time that's what I would do if I was going to run a sarm cycle and PCT afterwards.
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Well there’s no way to know whether lots of people would be fully shut down until a majority of users run that and have it happen. So far as we have seen it has not, though cases we can study are few and anecdotal, we have seen some reliable blood work out there. The actual clinical studies when combined with those experiences as I said, show an interesting picture.

I mean hell, chados went through a pct on a low dose of ostarine. Right? Now that’s probably the tenth guy online I’ve seen do that and pct went fine apparently. First guy on this forum I’ve seen do it, though. First guy I trust who did it, as well.

TL;DR: sarms are suppressive, use pct. Don’t use sarms in pct.
 
Besides, your sarm source could just be mixing up a bunch of ancillaries and selling them as sarms. And if you high dose that you WILL be in real trouble.
 
yeah that's why I only use "trusted" sarm sources that use 3rd party testing. I won't go with any questionable company. That's why I don't trust ronix research, I took that for 2 days before my Kong run and my heart was racing, and my bicep broke out with a triangle acne pattern that I STILL have scars from.
 
Old Witch said:
Well there’s no way to know whether lots of people would be fully shut down until a majority of users run that and have it happen. So far as we have seen it has not, though cases we can study are few and anecdotal, we have seen some reliable blood work out there. The actual clinical studies when combined with those experiences as I said, show an interesting picture.

I mean hell, chados went through a pct on a low dose of ostarine. Right? Now that’s probably the tenth guy online I’ve seen do that and pct went fine apparently. First guy on this forum I’ve seen do it, though. First guy I trust who did it, as well.

TL;DR: sarms are suppressive, use pct. Don’t use sarms in pct.
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Chados was never able to get his bloodwork results back because of leaving the country, etc...
 
We have studies of LGD 30mg stacked with mk2866 at 40mg?
Also when we say shut down are we talking no sex drive or test at zero.
My sex drive was tanked from ostarine after 10 weeks.
Rad 140 with ostarine has had 2 people I train unable to get an erection.
Most people on this board would agree just ostarine will have you suppressed
I want people to know SARMs suppress your test production.
The longer and more you take the more suppressed you will be.
 
Old Witch said:
Well there’s no way to know whether lots of people would be fully shut down until a majority of users run that and have it happen. So far as we have seen it has not, though cases we can study are few and anecdotal, we have seen some reliable blood work out there. The actual clinical studies when combined with those experiences as I said, show an interesting picture.

I mean hell, chados went through a pct on a low dose of ostarine. Right? Now that’s probably the tenth guy online I’ve seen do that and pct went fine apparently. First guy on this forum I’ve seen do it, though. First guy I trust who did it, as well.

TL;DR: sarms are suppressive, use pct. Don’t use sarms in pct.
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With a SERM is a different story.
5mg of osta with nolva is a safe bet IMO
30mg of LGD and 40mg osta is going to drop your test big time in 12 weeks.
 
Cgkone said:
We have studies of LGD 30mg stacked with mk2866 at 40mg?
Also when we say shut down are we talking no sex drive or test at zero.
My sex drive was tanked from ostarine after 10 weeks.
Rad 140 with ostarine has had 2 people I train unable to get an erection.
Most people on this board would agree just ostarine will have you suppressed
I want people to know SARMs suppress your test production.
The longer and more you take the more suppressed you will be.
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I did not insinuate such a thing. We have individual cases we can study personally insomuch as they have valid data.

Yes, that is what I mean. Test at zero. Shut down. Shut down. Shut, down.

That’s unfortunate, my sex drive hasn’t ever taken a big hit on any PED. A little deca dick, from deca, that’s all. Still wanted to shove it into anything I could. Just couldn’t bust.

Rad 140 is beyond the scope of my commentary here.

I did not say it will not suppress.

So do I, and I have said as much, but am also better informed than you.

This remains to be proven unequivocally.
 
Old Witch said:
Besides, your sarm source could just be mixing up a bunch of ancillaries and selling them as sarms. And if you high dose that you WILL be in real trouble.
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My source is legit. I've got so many bottles of SARMs I give that sh1t away. I've given 5 people on this site SARMs from my source.
2 people ran logs. I like SARMs. I suggest them often as a first run . I use them for a bridge.
They suppress you period. They can potentially shut you down fully. Thats all I want people to know. Legit quality SARMs will drop your test. The more you do and the longer you do them makes it worse.
 
Cgkone said:
With a SERM is a different story.
5mg of osta with nolva is a safe bet IMO
30mg of LGD and 40mg osta is going to drop your test big time in 12 weeks.
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5mg osta won’t even have an effect in any way meaningful to a bodybuilder. Except to empty pockets.

That is completely possible. And rather unimportant as everything is suppressive to some degree. I was going to try and shut myself down fully with them and go into atrophy if it’s even possible. That’s the important part.
 
SARMs affect all differently. I will tell you there is a lot of misinformation out there. Yk11/LGD stack is amazing for strength gains. Broke a new pr on mid and low rows today. I absolutely attribute it to PEDs ( SARMs) My advice to any newbie wanting to try SARMs is to research and plan your cycle. If you half ass it, expect half ass results.
 
I also value Old Witch and his opinion. He gives a lot of valuable insights on SARMs. I'm grateful we have good peeps on this forum that give useful advice.
 
Old Witch said:
5mg osta won’t even have an effect in any way meaningful to a bodybuilder. Except to empty pockets.

That is completely possible. And rather unimportant as everything is suppressive to some degree. I was going to try and shut myself down fully with them and go into atrophy if it’s even possible. That’s the important part.
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Its possible. Just stay on. S4 will do it at 80 mg .
 
In terms of Ostarine and being shutdown. I ran 25mg in that Kong Stack and my libido was good majority of cycle. I'm sure my test was suppressed, thankfully I've never experienced complete shutdown and hopefully I never will.
 
You keep mentioning things that aren’t lgd or ostarine, which are beyond the scope of my commentary. Meaning they’re the only compounds I’m talking about.
 
Borashi said:
In terms of Ostarine and being shutdown. I ran 25mg in that Kong Stack and my libido was good majority of cycle. I'm sure my test was suppressed, thankfully I've never experienced complete shutdown and hopefully I never will.
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How old are u?
When u say majority, did it weaken at the end?
 
Cgkone said:
My source is legit. I've got so many bottles of SARMs I give that sh1t away. I've given 5 people on this site SARMs from my source.
2 people ran logs. I like SARMs. I suggest them often as a first run . I use them for a bridge.
They suppress you period. They can potentially shut you down fully. Thats all I want people to know. Legit quality SARMs will drop your test. The more you do and the longer you do them makes it worse.
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Miss me with that pissing contest bull****. I said they’re suppressive over and over and over.
 
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