What SARMS don't you like?
- Thread starter Charlesw617
- Start date
muscleupcrohn
Legend
That seems like a pretty optimistic cycle IMO. Of that net 30, how much is muscle and how much is fat, give or take?
I know we haven’t always seen eye to eye, but I’m rooting for you to get back to that shape, and to do well in general. No reason to wish ill on a fellow lifter and martial artist.
Old Witch
Well-known member
If you do it right, what you net is all muscle and what you lose is all fat, or water. I always have tended to use higher dosages in favor of rapid metabolism, then having to eat a lot more, and clean, minimal fat is gained while maximal muscle is also gained.
So what’s kept is probably about 25/5 and the fat is hopefully intramuscular.
It might not work the same now that I’m older, remember I was a teen my first cycle. (As I’ve said before)
Going to try for first real cycle v2.0 soon. Hopefully my hypotheses are still correct. I had great gains every time I switched compounds, gained nearly a hundred pounds in four years.
Supremeone
New member
I am not sure if lgd was always like this or if they are starting to make it at a higher dosage now?Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
Old Witch
Well-known member
Doses have been going up steadily over the past year it looks like.
Companies and customers are finally catching on that if sold in the old doses, they don’t do anything worthwhile.
Also, that’s pretty steep. I’d just buy some raws from overseas. Much cheaper.
Dholmes90
New member
Nice. My dad served in Vietnam. He passed away last year, and I don't really have many things left of him. But I do have his medals. Three purple hearts too. They mean the world to me more than ever now.
Been reading your posts, and you've motivated me to get my sh1t together once and for all. I'm turning 29 next week, about 60lbs overweight from depression of losing him, and falling short of everything I said I'd do. I told him I was going to compete one day in a men's physique competition, but never did because of confidence issues. I think I'm gonna work on pursuing that goal now.
Thanks man. I hope you crush the goals you've set for yourself too!
Charlesw617
New member
That's the best post I've read so far
Hiddengains
New member
Here they are, 5 week cycle of superdrol. Used coq10 when I remembered Torem throughout, and iron labs nutrition cycle support.
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Charlesw617
New member
Lucky bastard lol, i need a liver like yours
Old Witch
Well-known member
Those are some of the lowest liver enzymes I’ve seen on SD. This was how long post final dosage? Did you take ON cycle bloods during week 5? because that’s going to tell a lot, the liver regulates in a very short time.
You need to get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers.
Hiddengains
New member
Those are some of the lowest liver enzymes I’ve seen on SD. This was how long post final dosage? Did you take ON cycle bloods during week 5? because that’s going to tell a lot, the liver regulates in a very short time.
You need to get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers.
Lol bro, that was taken the day after the last dose.
Old Witch
Well-known member
Lol bro, ok so that means it wasn’t in your system anymore. Even a one day break is meaningful to the liver.
Hiddengains
New member
My apologies Daddy, half-life? No way your body eliminates 5weeks worth of superdrol compounded daily within 12hrs.
Old Witch
Well-known member
Half life of SD is eight to nine hours. It was mostly out of your system. you had a quarter of your last dose in there if even.
Hiddengains
New member
That's not how half life works, but ok.
Old Witch
Well-known member
It is actually, when you get up you’ve probably got a quarter dose and that’s all that ends up carrying over, any redose, at all. Unless you were taking it three times a day or more. You end up with a serum level of maybe 1.25 to 1.5 times the daily dosage and holding if you’re lucky. So after 12 hours, now three quarters of that is gonzo, bye bye. Then at best you’ve got half a dose if even. Likely closer to a third or less, especially since it looks like your liver cleared it pretty damn well, which of course has everything to do with it.
Old Witch
Well-known member
I’ve been doing this a long enough time to know what bloods should look like. That’s for damn sure. Yours look probably twice as healthy as the usual 20mg SD user. So either you took less, in which case your point is completely irrelevant, or you cleared it faster, in which case the half life is less than on paper, and it was mostly if not entirely out of your system.
Hiddengains
New member
Calculating biological half life, isn't that simple. Chemistry major? It takes 4-5 half lives before a drug is fully eliminated. Not to mention the accumulation effect of taken something daily.
Old Witch
Well-known member
Well, all I did was a simple calculus equation but hey...
It can’t accumulate if it’s already out of your system.
Also, we aren’t talking about metabolites, remember that. Full clearance takes months. We are talking about bioactive methasterone particles.
If you took two days off a week, your liver enzymes would be lower overall. Fact.
Taking one day off, will lower your liver enzymes by a degree.
Finally as I said in the first place everyone has a different liver. Yours seems to be made of steel. Or you took less than you imply.
Old Witch
Well-known member
In any case the fact stands, superdrol will shred up your liver before ostarine will even touch it unless you’ve got some kind of liver disease in which case either one might put you on a waiting list within a week or two. Not sure what you’re trying to prove, that hyperbole is hyperbolic and that generalizations are general, or that your liver reacts better than most....
JoePaul39
Well-known member
How much Superdrol was taken again?
Old Witch
Well-known member
Ok so, you’re pinning a little test with it, any chance you could use dhb cyp instead of 1-andro? About 200mg of dhb a week (1ml) would blow that 1 andro away so hard it’s laughable.
Jeez man that’s a lot of stuff to go with s23. You actually have me wondering what’s safer. The sarms, in my opinion, for that long, are going to be stronger than most dmz products, or at least the ones I have tried, actual Pharma roxilon from somewhere in the Middle East included.
But the dmz will definitely work faster. In all I still think the sarms will be a bit better, especially on a longer run, making things a bit more solid and keepable.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Already purchased the 1 andro. Sarms run would be for 8 weeks. I really wonder if the DMZ would be less detrimental too my health because lipids would only be tanked for 4 to 5 weeks instead of 8 like the Sarms. Liver would take a hit, but it would recover. I feel cardiovascular health is the thing that will kill you long term, thus is the thing I should base my decision on. On my last S23 , Rad 140 run my HDL dropped to low twenties, I just wonder what the drop might be like on DMZ? Can’t find any posted bloods, but wouldn’t imagine it would be much worse? Prostate health on the other hand makes me consider the Sarms run. My dad had to have his prostate removed in his seventies, so an enlarged prostate is something i have to be on guard for, especially since I am on trt. I know Sarms don’t effect the prostate (S23 is supposed to shrink it), but DMZ would.
Old Witch
Well-known member
All valid concerns. There is not a correct answer here, though either way your HDL is going to tank, how long it takes... I think dmz will do it faster, but maybe not faster than s23. Not sure on that one.
Any time you cycle, it’s a calculated risk. I think since all other things may equate, then err on the side of prostate health and use the sarms.
Zvch
Member
60 mg of Ostarine? I guess you hate your liver.
Laxo and Arimistane = Nope
30 mg of LGD seems a bit high
It would have been better to double the caps and half the (mg) for dosing better.
The price doesn't look right Bob.
The RAD looks good.
Just because you or certain people have experienced elevated liver enzymes with Ostarine doesn’t mean everyone will react that way. Elevated liver enzymes doesn’t always mean toxicity. A slight elevation only indicates your liver working harder. There are also several factors that could contribute to that including intense weight training so unless there’s a controlled study or a ridiculous number, you can’t just attribute that to Ostarine.
Laxogenin is a fantastic nutrient partitioning agent. It has great drying and leaning-out effects for me. So does the Arimistane. I assume that and the Arimistane were added to keep water retention low and help prevent estrogen from having a good environment to thrive.
The Laxogenin and Arimistane are the only two compounds that need to be dosed more than once a day. The dose of LGD and Ostarine are high but other than that and the short half-life of Laxogenin and Arimistane it looks fine to me.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I’m going to take your suggestion and go with the Sarms cycle OW. As long as I am growing on Sarms and andros no need to jump to a steroid until necessary. I will save that for when I no longer get adequate returns from Sarms/andros. I am going to do an 8 week run. If I don’t like my progress four weeks in I can always drop the S23 since it hits the liver like DMZ and replace it with DMZ for the final four weeks (this the S23 would serve as a kicker) , but I don’t think that will be necessary since Rad 140 at 30 mg and S23 at 30 mg have treated me so well in the past and that was on a 1500 calorie cut too.
justhere4comm
Banned
Ostarine is a diminishing returns per sides as you increase the dose. It's not a valid dose in here, and I wouldn't risk it.
LGD is doing the heavy lifting and would be fine solo at this dose ramped up.
I'm not against Laxo, it's just better in a TD formulation.
Laxogenin has a 5% oral bioavailability and is prone to give people headaches. If you want a GDA. Predator by Chaos and Pain. I don't see where this is listed as a nutrient partitioner at this dose even. Invalid Link Removed It was just on BOGO and well respected, so it would have been a great product to stock up on.
Please show me where Arimistane does anything beneficial here, as I see it as more a detriment, and water retention? It reduces your insulin sensitivity, and there's no real benefit here. I see it as a negative. Drink more water, and take something like Dandelion Extract in a non-alcohol base. It tastes good; is a great diuretic; and helps the liver.
This supplement wants to do too much that it cannot do, and for more than a few will cause issues, and that is enough for me to give it a thumbs down for it's formulation. There is not enough flexibility, and it's too pricey. They should just offer a support supp with a stack, or just solo product.
I actually like their offering of RAD140 solo at 90 caps 10mg per is pretty good. A compound that was considered as a TRT substitute. I'm mostly not for some products of this type trying to do it all for all. M-Test is an opposite argument for a nice all in one.
Indiglospaz
New member
I've read stacking sarms is kind of redundant for they compete for the same receptors?
Charlesw617
New member
Well yes and no, sarms like steroids compete for the same receptors, a few of them are more anabolic than androgenic and vice versa. I personally would stack only 2 at a time after solo runs of each. Ive done Lgd4033 solo and Rad140 solo and I felt stronger on both, but my strength went up faster on Lgd, I would have to do Rad140
Mk2866 and Lgd4033 are structurally the same, but mk2866 is much weaker, in my opinion it doesn't make sense to stack these two. Mk2866 is more for small muscle gains while focusing on loosing fat and Lgd4033 is just for focusing on bulking.
Rad140 is similar in results to Lgd4033 but wont add as much water on your, but filling your muscles with water isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on your goals. Rad140 is more for focusing on lean muscle mass with less of a focus on loosing fat
S4 and S23 are both more androgenic than anabolic, with s23 being the stronger of the two. People tend to compare the results of S4 closer to anavar and S23 closer to winstrol, which is why people make lean muscle gains and burn fat. My wife used S4 and maintained her muscle and lost a good amount of fat.
Yk11 is just a steroid labeled as a sarm, its glorified as a myostatin inhibitor but all steroids do that, those results were observed in a petri dish but never got to human trials. With everyone stacking this looking for logs of solo runs are almost impossible.
Zvch
Member
I’ve read some stuff about that idea too but I’m really not convinced that’s how it works with SARMs. Until I see some sort of proof of it, anyway. If that were the case, you’d think that stacking stronger steroids or steroids with higher binding affinities along with weaker ones would be pointless and the weaker ones wouldn’t be able to exhibit their effects, but people do it all the time because it works.
I don’t see what would make SARMs bind any differently than traditional steroids or designer steroids/PHs. Other than the fact that they’re more selective and more anabolic at lower doses, they shouldn’t have a different mechanism of action. There’s only one site at which any of these compounds bind and that is the androgen receptor - all androgens compete for the same receptor. Weaker androgens will find other receptors to bind to and your body will create more androgen receptors one they’re saturated - the only issue there is that the process takes some time so stacking too many things at once right out of the gate might give you diminishing returns. It would have to be a whole TON of gear though.
I could be totally wrong though??*
Old Witch
Well-known member
Receptor competition means almost nothing for androgen-androgen interaction. You will get more binding from one over the other based on its affinity for specific sites. Binding doesn’t happen for real amounts of time. Except in the case of trenbolone and antiandrigens meant to block off receptors. Tren will cause you to create more receptors with how it binds. That’s a whole nother post.
Lgd and mk2866 are structurally as far apart as nonsteroidal sarms can be. LGD is a hydantoin analog, and ostarine is an aryl propionamide analog. S4 and ostarine however are almost identical. Both are aryl propionamides.
There are steroidal sarms. This is a thing. YK11 is a steroidal sarm. “All steroids inhibit myostatin” to a degree, this one is built for selectivity in that purpose. It does perform, as myostatin inhibition will cause joint pain. Thusly misleading some dunces into believing it is a dht derivative. It is not. Its a nandrolone. It’s two main metabolites are dhts. DHNs specifically. You can find anecdotal reports on its solo use as parts of logs or comments all around this forum.
Charlesw617
New member
You are correct about Ostarine and Andarine being structurally similar, thankyou for the correction.
As far as yk11 goes, as far as i know on its own its not very impressive in terms of muscle gains, but stacked it appears to improve other anabolic compounds. During a solo run is it comparable to other lean muscle building sarms such as Ostarine, Rad and S23?
Old Witch
Well-known member
It is best stacked, as it is mainly unusable outside of pre training settings for most. The aggression and blood pressure effects are too strong to deal with all day. It is similar to methyl tren in that regard.
Zvch
Member
Can you elaborate on YK being a nandrolone? I’m genuinely intrigued. I can’t find any info that suggests that.
Old Witch
Well-known member
It’s right in the name, and any and all scholarly articles you can find.
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Old Witch
Well-known member
It’s like a much much milder methyl tren. High aggression and strength, modest gains. So yeah, gains comparable to maybe ostarine solo. Not really much by itself.