What is the best dosing for EP1C unleashed?

[Joshlm69]

Sorry this has probably been asked a thousand times I just can't find the q&a thread on my phone.

2 pwo?

What about days off gym, do you still dose?

Thanks

 

[Burnfire]

Read this he seems to know

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/product-review/267524-ep1c-unleashed-60-a.html

 

[Danes]

Sorry this has probably been asked a thousand times I just can't find the q&a thread on my phone.

2 pwo?

What about days off gym, do you still dose?

Thanks

I have written about Epicatechin and how to dose it before but best way would be to spread it thru the day.
1. 3 caps daily 4 hours apart. (there is a study showing follistatin increase after Epicatechin ingestion. after 6 hours the Levels was back to "normal". So take it each 3-4 hour)
2. Take it on a empty stomach (recently Study proves that Catechin, no matter if its Isomer/StereoIsomer) Works best on empty stomach.
3. Take it everyday ! 3 caps 4 hours apart on empty stomach

Here is something I wrote before about Epicatechin:

I can say it would be best taking Epicatechin on an empty stomach, and it is not just with Epicatechin but generaly catechins (studies shows).

If we look at the epicatechin study from 2015 (Concentration vs. time profile) after just one hour its at the highest concentration and pretty low 6 hours later (after ingestion).
So to make sure the concentration is stable, i would DEFF take multiple doses of Epicatechin daily.
As we can se on the graph, 200mg Epicatechin had MUCH higher peak than 100 or 50mg.(sum of Epi metabolites in plasma)
50mg Epicatechin = about 500 ųg/L (reached after 2 hours)
100mg Epicatechin = about 1300/1400 ųg/L (reached after 1 hours)
200mg Epicatechin = about 3700 ųg/L (reached after one hour).
So it does not stop at 200mg. Higher doses would be even better.
We should NOT forget the half life of epicatechin (and as I said, the study showing the effect on follistatin last max 6 hours. About six 6 hours after ingestion the levels went back to baseline).

This is what a good friend of mine who is very knowledgeable wrote:

"This is because of the half life of (-)epi. It's about ~4 hours and the effects on follistatin appears to disappear a few hours after the last dose, so maybe 6 hours post your last dose, you have probably returned to baseline."

1: It would be best to take on an empty stomach
2: To hold the concentration high thru the day, EPI could be taken each 3-4hours apart thru the day. 3-4 times.
3:since concentation peak is highest 1 hour after ingesting, it could be good idea to take it 1 hour prior workout actually

 

[Joshlm69]

Isn't epic only 2 caps a day?

 

[ELROCK]

Personally, I dose 2 caps 30 minutes before workout. Then, only 1 cap on off days. I am still getting results dosing it this way and it makes the bottle last longer. Since, -epi is a staple for me this keeps the cost down.

 

[Joshlm69]

It's going to be too expensive taking that much. 2 caps a day is £60 a month, don't wanna be going past that

 

[Burnfire]

Personally, I dose 2 caps 30 minutes before workout. Then, only 1 cap on off days. I am still getting results dosing it this way and it makes the bottle last longer. Since, -epi is a staple for me this keeps the cost down.

Mhm might to have to do that when I run mine.

 

[white_lie]

You won't need 3 caps a day with Ep1c Unleashed. Maybe an inferior product but not the stuff we're discussing here.
2 pwo and 1 or 2 on days off will be fine

 

[Danes]

You won't need 3 caps a day with Ep1c Unleashed. Maybe an inferior product but not the stuff we're discussing here.
2 pwo and 1 or 2 on days off will be fine

Wont need 3 caps?
How can you say that?

Ep1c unleashed and other Epicatechin products works best in higher doses.
I bet my life ep1c U. Would deliver much better results (pumps,musclefullness, endurance) at 4caps or more than 2 caps

 

[Danes]

It's going to be too expensive taking that much. 2 caps a day is £60 a month, don't wanna be going past that

One thing is the price but if we are talking about results, then more caps would be better and the studies are proving it.
I have been taking 5 caps of Ep1c Unleashed and I need to admit, it is the best Epicatechin product I have tried.
Musclefullness, pumps, endurance and generaly better work capacity !

 

[LeanEngineer]

Dang I've just ran it at two caps a day and had good results. I cant imagine 5!

 

[Danes]

Dang I've just ran it at two caps a day and had good results. I cant imagine 5!

I believe you will love it

 

[GNO]

One thing is the price but if we are talking about results, then more caps would be better and the studies are proving it.
I have been taking 5 caps of Ep1c Unleashed and I need to admit, it is the best Epicatechin product I have tried.
Musclefullness, pumps, endurance and generaly better work capacity !

I disagree Danes. The studies you are referencing are not utilizing absorption enhancers correct?

I would recommend OP starts EP1C Unleashed at 2 caps per day for min 1-2 weeks to assess his response to it and then if he so chooses he can experiment like you have. More is not always better so I would not recommend mega dosing. Your experience is interesting at greater than 2 caps, but I would assume it is impractical for most in terms of cost benefit.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I have written about Epicatechin and how to dose it before but best way would be to spread it thru the day.
1. 3 caps daily 4 hours apart. (there is a study showing follistatin increase after Epicatechin ingestion. after 6 hours the Levels was back to "normal". So take it each 3-4 hour)
2. Take it on a empty stomach (recently Study proves that Catechin, no matter if its Isomer/StereoIsomer) Works best on empty stomach.
3. Take it everyday ! 3 caps 4 hours apart on empty stomach

Here is something I wrote before about Epicatechin:

I can say it would be best taking Epicatechin on an empty stomach, and it is not just with Epicatechin but generaly catechins (studies shows).

If we look at the epicatechin study from 2015 (Concentration vs. time profile) after just one hour its at the highest concentration and pretty low 6 hours later (after ingestion).
So to make sure the concentration is stable, i would DEFF take multiple doses of Epicatechin daily.
As we can se on the graph, 200mg Epicatechin had MUCH higher peak than 100 or 50mg.(sum of Epi metabolites in plasma)
50mg Epicatechin = about 500 ųg/L (reached after 2 hours)
100mg Epicatechin = about 1300/1400 ųg/L (reached after 1 hours)
200mg Epicatechin = about 3700 ųg/L (reached after one hour).
So it does not stop at 200mg. Higher doses would be even better.
We should NOT forget the half life of epicatechin (and as I said, the study showing the effect on follistatin last max 6 hours. About six 6 hours after ingestion the levels went back to baseline).

This is what a good friend of mine who is very knowledgeable wrote:

"This is because of the half life of (-)epi. It's about ~4 hours and the effects on follistatin appears to disappear a few hours after the last dose, so maybe 6 hours post your last dose, you have probably returned to baseline."

1: It would be best to take on an empty stomach
2: To hold the concentration high thru the day, EPI could be taken each 3-4hours apart thru the day. 3-4 times.
3:since concentation peak is highest 1 hour after ingesting, it could be good idea to take it 1 hour prior workout actually

Could you send me/post up a link to that study?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

It's going to be too expensive taking that much. 2 caps a day is £60 a month, don't wanna be going past that

Where are you paying that much for Ep1c? Or is that a typo...

 

[Danes]

I disagree Danes. The studies you are referencing are not utilizing absorption enhancers correct?

I would recommend OP starts EP1C Unleashed at 2 caps per day for min 1-2 weeks to assess his response to it and then if he so chooses he can experiment like you have. More is not always better so I would not recommend mega dosing. Your experience is interesting at greater than 2 caps, but I would assume it is impractical for most in terms of cost benefit.

1. Higher doses of Epicatechin is better with or without absorption/bioavailability enhancers.
2. No matter if it has absorption enhancers , we respond very differently and I bet , in most cases you would see more pumps, better endurance, work capacity with higher doses.
3. I am not saying Ep1c unleashed is underdosed product. Not at all but I am talking about science combined with my personal experience.
4. Epicatechin is not "toxic" compound and playing with higher doses would actually be a good idea. It would actually give those nonresponders like me a whole new picture of epicatechin

 

[Danes]

Could you send me/post up a link to that study?

Ofcourse. When I get home (30min)

 

[Joshlm69]

I'm from UK so it's very expensive here, if I like it I'll bulk order from America

 

[Joshlm69]

I might consider doing 3 on workout days (before breakfast before lunch before gym) then 1 on off days

 

[Joshlm69]

Just so you guys know, I took it about 30 mins ago, in the gym now, my recovery in between sets is absolutely insane. This stuff works from the 1st dose - I applaud you

 

[GNO]

Just so you guys know, I took it about 30 mins ago, in the gym now, my recovery in between sets is absolutely insane. This stuff works from the 1st dose - I applaud you

Truthfully, I don't think you would see significant endurance effects after one dose ... probably vasodilation effects only the first day.

 

[Joshlm69]

Truthfully, I don't think you would see significant endurance effects after one dose ... probably vasodilation effects only the first day.

Not true, I'm not even out of breath in between sets, I was the exact same on my first dose of follidrone.

Obviously more sensitive to Epi than you, no need to falsely call people out because you respond differently.

 

[GNO]

Not true, I'm not even out of breath in between sets, I was the exact same on my first dose of follidrone.

Obviously more sensitive to Epi than you, no need to falsely call people out because you respond differently.

I meant no offense brother. If that's the case more power to you.

 

[rtmilburn]

1. Higher doses of Epicatechin is better with or without absorption/bioavailability enhancers.
2. No matter if it has absorption enhancers , we respond very differently and I bet , in most cases you would see more pumps, better endurance, work capacity with higher doses.
3. I am not saying Ep1c unleashed is underdosed product. Not at all but I am talking about science combined with my personal experience.
4. Epicatechin is not "toxic" compound and playing with higher doses would actually be a good idea. It would actually give those nonresponders like me a whole new picture of epicatechin

Well from my experience to much ep1c unleahsed can give cause low blood pressure. I was using 2 caps and 2 pumps a day and i had to back off because my bp dropped to 94/55. I just felt bad. So i back off and changed timing and it was fixed. Also on another note it cure my acne. I had really bad acne that not even Accutane(worst medication ever made) could fix. However within weeks of using ep1c unleashed my acne was essentially gone. I would pay that much just for the benefit alone. Then you add the pumps, vascularity, size(all epi product blew my up while on but i seem to "deflate" when i come of), endurance, and strength gains. You might as well just take my pay checks. Because thats were my money is going anyways.

 

[Joshlm69]

I meant no offense brother. If that's the case more power to you.

No worries big guy

 

[Danes]

Well from my experience to much ep1c unleahsed can give cause low blood pressure. I was using 2 caps and 2 pumps a day and i had to back off because my bp dropped to 94/55. I just felt bad. So i back off and changed timing and it was fixed. Also on another note it cure my acne. I had really bad acne that not even Accutane(worst medication ever made) could fix. However within weeks of using ep1c unleashed my acne was essentially gone. I would pay that much just for the benefit alone. Then you add the pumps, vascularity, size(all epi product blew my up while on but i seem to "deflate" when i come of), endurance, and strength gains. You might as well just take my pay checks. Because thats were my money is going anyways.

Sounds good. You was definitely taking higher doses than just 2 caps and TD would work better than caps for some. (It depents on skin types ++++).
I do like increased endurance from Epicatechin and we shall not forget all health benefits (-)Epi

 

[rtmilburn]

Sounds good. You was definitely taking higher doses than just 2 caps and TD would work better than caps for some. (It depents on skin types ++++).
I do like increased endurance from Epicatechin and we shall not forget all health benefits (-)Epi

Ya no kidding. I was just amazed at how it cleared up my skin. I love that part more then the rest to be honest

 

[Danes]

Ya no kidding. I was just amazed at how it cleared up my skin. I love that part more then the rest to be honest

I am glad it worked for you

 

[Danes]

muscleupcrohn, your inbox is full

 

[muscleupcrohn]

muscleupcrohn, your inbox is full

I just cleared some space.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

Well from my experience to much ep1c unleahsed can give cause low blood pressure. I was using 2 caps and 2 pumps a day and i had to back off because my bp dropped to 94/55. I just felt bad. So i back off and changed timing and it was fixed. Also on another note it cure my acne. I had really bad acne that not even Accutane(worst medication ever made) could fix. However within weeks of using ep1c unleashed my acne was essentially gone. I would pay that much just for the benefit alone. Then you add the pumps, vascularity, size(all epi product blew my up while on but i seem to "deflate" when i come of), endurance, and strength gains. You might as well just take my pay checks. Because thats were my money is going anyways.

hmm im curious about this why would that be? why would it cure acne im like a week into the caps and mine has cleared up slightly

 

[Danes]

hmm im curious about this why would that be? why would it cure acne im like a week into the caps and mine has cleared up slightly

I really knew it could not be due to (-)Epi but more due to EGCG found in Ep1c and here is the proof:

Epigallocatechin-3-gallate improves acne in humans by modulating intracellular molecular targets and inhibiting P. acnes.

Epigallocatechin-3-gallate improves acne in humans by modulating intracellular molecular targets and inhibiting P. acnes. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[NoAddedHmones]

OP at your body weight i see no reason to go above two caps pwo. The economic and side effect risk (headaches, light headedness) outweigh the potential benefits.

You will see awesome results in increased workout capacity and recovery between sets etc, i know i did and still do use two caps.
Danes is just a massive unit with many years under his belt which makes excessive dosing of most things necessary, apparently.

 

[Danes]

OP at your body weight i see no reason to go above two caps pwo. The economic and side effect risk (headaches, light headedness) outweigh the potential benefits.

You will see awesome results in increased workout capacity and recovery between sets etc, i know i did and still do use two caps.
Danes is just a massive unit with many years under his belt which makes excessive dosing of most things necessary, apparently.

Hey I am not that old 32 years ! 30s here is the new 20s j/k

I do agree, there is no need to overdo things and many times its not cost effective but people should be playing with doses to see how they react to it.
2 caps at the beginning and 1month later increase to 3 or 4. If the effect is MUCH better with the higher dose, and cash is there, why not

 

[CJNator]

Hey I am not that old 32 years ! 30s here is the new 20s j/k

I do agree, there is no need to overdo things and many times its not cost effective but people should be playing with doses to see how they react to it.
2 caps at the beginning and 1month later increase to 3 or 4. If the effect is MUCH better with the higher dose, and cash is there, why not

Would using the TD and capped EU be as effective as spreading out the dosage? One capped pre and the TD 6 hrs later?

 

[Danes]

Would using the TD and capped EU be as effective as spreading out the dosage? One capped pre and the TD 6 hrs later?

Sure but for the follistatin purpose, dont wait 6 hours but 3-4 hours. After 6 hours the follistatin increase from epicatechin went back to baseline.
So if you want to hold the follistatin concentration high thru the day, take one cap or TD each 3-4 hour .

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Sure but for the follistatin purpose, dont wait 6 hours but 3-4 hours. After 6 hours the follistatin increase from epicatechin went back to baseline.
So if you want to hold the follistatin concentration high thru the day, take one cap or TD each 3-4 hour .

If we are going by the most recent data on pharmacokinetic's for healthy human volunteers, when comparing average Follistain levels on day 5 vs day 1 in participants who received 50mg -epi twice daily the following was found:

On day 5, plasma follistatin at baseline was higher vs. day 1. After (−)-EPI administration, follistatin levels increased following a plasma concentration time profile similar to that of (−)-EPI. Average day 5 follistatin AUC levels (Table 4) were ∼ 2.5 fold higher (5105 pg ml−1 h−1) vs. day 1 AUC levels (1931 pg ml−1 h−1) suggesting a priming effect of long-term (−)-EPI dosing on follistatin production.

So IMO this spread out every 4 hour dosage scheme you are suggesting seems much less relevant after some time supplementing with -epi. And I also think the effects on follistain are only a very minor reason for -epi's beneficial effects, like bottom of the list minor.

 

[Danes]

If we are going by the most recent data on pharmacokinetic's for healthy human volunteers, when comparing average Follistain levels on day 5 vs day 1 in participants who received 50mg -epi twice daily the following was found:

On day 5, plasma follistatin at baseline was higher vs. day 1. After (−)-EPI administration, follistatin levels increased following a plasma concentration time profile similar to that of (−)-EPI. Average day 5 follistatin AUC levels (Table 4) were ∼ 2.5 fold higher (5105 pg ml−1 h−1) vs. day 1 AUC levels (1931 pg ml−1 h−1) suggesting a priming effect of long-term (−)-EPI dosing on follistatin production.

So IMO this spread out every 4 hour dosage scheme you are suggesting seems much less relevant after some time supplementing with -epi. And I also think the effects on follistain are only a very minor reason for -epi's beneficial effects, like bottom of the list minor.

Yes but like i said many times and recent study showing :

50mg Epicatechin = about 500 ųg/L (reached after 2 hours)
100mg Epicatechin = about 1300/1400 ųg/L (reached after 1 hours)
200mg Epicatechin = about 3700 ųg/L (reached after one hour).

This mean 100mg works better than 50mg. 200mg works better than 50mg and 100mg AND it does not stop at 200mg. Higher dose would be even better.

If you look at graph carefully, dosing each 3-4 hour would be the BEST for holding Follistatin concentration peak high.
And this idea was not just my idea but a russian scientist who was recommending this

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Yes but like i said many times and recent study showing :

50mg Epicatechin = about 500 ųg/L (reached after 2 hours)
100mg Epicatechin = about 1300/1400 ųg/L (reached after 1 hours)
200mg Epicatechin = about 3700 ųg/L (reached after one hour).

This mean 100mg works better than 50mg. 200mg works better than 50mg and 100mg AND it does not stop at 200mg. Higher dose would be even better

No you have read the graphs wrong.

Your figures are showing -epi metabolites in plasma, as shown below:

 

[Danes]

No you have read the graphs wrong.

Your figures are showing -epi metabolites in plasma, as shown below:
View attachment 123964

Dont think i have been reading it wrong. Not at all. Just look closely which dose gives highest peak .
I didnt say graphs was follistatin peaks but if you translate those graphs you will know that more epi works better.
I dont want to be rude but I rather trust a russian scientist who had done studies on plenty of compounds.
He said more would be better and studies are proving it.
50mg would not be better than lets say 200mg and it would be wrong to say it does.
My whole point is :
200mg or more of epicatechin taken each 4th hour would be the best deal for the follistatin levels than 1-2 times daily with 50mg.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Dont think i have been reading it wrong. Not at all. Just look closely which dose gives highest peak .
I dont want to be rude but I rather trust a russian scientist who had done studies on plenty of compounds.
He said more would be better and studies are proving it.
50mg would not be better than lets say 200mg and it would be wrong to say it does.
My whole point is :
200mg or more of epicatechin taken each 4th hour would be the best deal for the follistatin levels than 1-2 times daily with 50mg.

Im not sure when or where I have made a call on what dosages are better nor do I think I know better than your Russian friend. I was merely correcting the figures you continuously through around. I am not very well versed on (-)-epi's metabolites effects but it is clear that there is an exponential increase in these metabolites as dosage increases. Hence why it is clear that regular -epi is rapidly metabolised.

 

[Danes]

Im not sure when or where I have made a call on what dosages are better nor do I think I know better than your Russian friend. I was merely correcting the figures you continuously through around. I am not very well versed on (-)-epi's metabolites effects but it is clear that there is an exponential increase in these metabolites as dosage increases. Hence why it is clear that regular -epi is rapidly metabolised.

For the follistatin purpose , more than 200mg in each dose works even better. (It does not stop at 200mg).
I do agree that epicatechin is more than follistatin booster. It has plenty of health benefits, it is a potent N.O booster +++

 

[Danes]

Im not sure when or where I have made a call on what dosages are better nor do I think I know better than your Russian friend. I was merely correcting the figures you continuously through around. I am not very well versed on (-)-epi's metabolites effects but it is clear that there is an exponential increase in these metabolites as dosage increases. Hence why it is clear that regular -epi is rapidly metabolised.

You know, language barrier can be the fact sometimes lol

 

[goodvibes]

Danes good info, I definitely need to try 4 caps a day spaced out. I might buy an extra bottle and run epi double dose next month.

 

[Danes]

Danes good info, I definitely need to try 4 caps a day spaced out. I might buy an extra bottle and run epi double dose next month.

Definitely. You are an experienced Epicatechin user and I bet my life you will find higher doses better for pumps, endurance and musclefullness

 

[ELROCK]

I disagree Danes. The studies you are referencing are not utilizing absorption enhancers correct?

I would recommend OP starts EP1C Unleashed at 2 caps per day for min 1-2 weeks to assess his response to it and then if he so chooses he can experiment like you have. More is not always better so I would not recommend mega dosing. Your experience is interesting at greater than 2 caps, but I would assume it is impractical for most in terms of cost benefit.

I agree. I always love Danes advice, but not on -epi. He is pretty much a non responder and to recommend such high doses is just absurd. At the doses he is recommending the progress made will never out weigh the cost IMO. Love you though Danes lol

 

[Danes]

I agree. I always love Danes advice, but not on -epi. He is pretty much a non responder and to recommend such high doses is just absurd. At the doses he is recommending the progress made will never out weigh the cost IMO. Love you though Danes lol

Haha no problem buddy.
Remember, when I suggest a high dose of something, i am thinking of results and not the cost .
Taking 3 caps of Ep1c unleashed would not hurt anyone at all and actually it could give people better results.
2 caps is a good dose and it has veeery good absorption enhancers but I bet 1000$ that most people would get even better results with higher dose (more than 2 caps)

 

[Danes]

I agree. I always love Danes advice, but not on -epi. He is pretty much a non responder and to recommend such high doses is just absurd. At the doses he is recommending the progress made will never out weigh the cost IMO. Love you though Danes lol

People may think I am OL rep lol.
Suggesting high doses so they buy even more (which is even better for OL).
While OL reps recommend only 2 caps
OL reps are definitely good guys !

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Dont think i have been reading it wrong. Not at all. Just look closely which dose gives highest peak .
I didnt say graphs was follistatin peaks but if you translate those graphs you will know that more epi works better.
I dont want to be rude but I rather trust a russian scientist who had done studies on plenty of compounds.
He said more would be better and studies are proving it.
50mg would not be better than lets say 200mg and it would be wrong to say it does.
My whole point is :
200mg or more of epicatechin taken each 4th hour would be the best deal for the follistatin levels than 1-2 times daily with 50mg.

Okay, Danes look at the Y-axis of the graph. Nobody is saying the graph is showing anything to do with follistatin, the link between -epi and follistatin is shown else where, not here. The Y-axis is showing the total plasma -epi metabolites not -epi in isolation.

 

[white_lie]

I'm from UK so it's very expensive here, if I like it I'll bulk order from America

It's currently 32 quid from strong uk. I find their pricing similar to their US site but with a bigger range of goodies