What is a more efficient muscle builder-DMZ or MSten?

[JoePaul39]

For those who have previous experience running DMZ and have also at some time run MSten, which one gave you greater gains or are they about equal? I am guessing DMZ has less sides ?

 

[Noteboom]

DMZ take it at 20 mg a day and you’ll have no sides it blew my PRs out the window.

 

[Noteboom]

On feeling is amazing too

 

[Noteboom]

Make sure to have good liver support

 

[Renew1]

For me, it was DMZ. But I believe it is subjective.

 

[JoePaul39]

DMZ take it at 20 mg a day and you’ll have no sides it blew my PRs out the window.

I’m running DMZ for the first time right now. Loving it. Two weeks in only side was some anxiety, but I have Klonopin as needed for that. I was reading about Msten recently, so was curious.

 

[JoePaul39]

For me, it was DMZ. But I believe it is subjective.

I heard MSten is similar in structure to Superdrol, it give you a lot of sides? I don’t have any high blood pressure on the DMZ at 40 mg which is great. Taking OL Arimicare Pro. Got OL TUdca taking at 1000 mg and no dark pee either even with S23 added.

 

[bigbeaph]

I heard MSten is similar in structure to Superdrol, it give you a lot of sides? I don’t have any high blood pressure on the DMZ at 40 mg which is great. Taking OL Arimicare Pro. Got OL TUdca taking at 1000 mg and no dark pee either even with S23 added.

My understanding is dmz is a double methyl superdrol and msten is a double methyl m1t. Sides on dmz for me were very mild. But I'm 2 weeks into msten at 20mg right now with absolutely zero sides....which is pretty awesome!

 

[JoePaul39]

It treating you better than the DMZ did two weeks in? DMZ has me swole.

 

[Renew1]

I heard MSten is similar in structure to Superdrol, it give you a lot of sides? I don’t have any high blood pressure on the DMZ at 40 mg which is great. Taking OL Arimicare Pro. Got OL TUdca taking at 1000 mg and no dark pee either even with S23 added.

DMZ has a lot of structural similarities to SD. But remember... With these compounds, oftentimes the slightest difference brings about huge changes.
Msten tried to edge up my blood pressure slightly, but not much.

What kind of progress are you making with the DMZ? It's a great compound.

 

[Mathb33]

Imo it’ll be different for everyone. Some ppl will react better on msten and some on dmz. Msten was always great for me and I was excited to try dmz (which I just finished) and I was kind of disapointed. I had to bump it to 60mg and I ran it for 8 weeks. Cycle was good but wasn’t awesome like I thought it would be

 

[JoePaul39]

Mainly increases lifts (added about 40 pounds to my squat) and muscle gain. Picked up 2 pounds in a week without body fat percentage going up which is hard for me at 41. Blows the andros away!

 

[JoePaul39]

Imo it’ll be different for everyone. Some ppl will react better on msten and some on dmz. Msten was always great for me and I was excited to try dmz (which I just finished) and I was kind of disapointed. I had to bump it to 60mg and I ran it for 8 weeks. Cycle was good but wasn’t awesome like I thought it would be

Any sides from the Msten? Eventually I will try it to see which compound my body reacts to better.

 

[Renew1]

Imo it’ll be different for everyone. Some ppl will react better on msten and some on dmz. Msten was always great for me and I was excited to try dmz (which I just finished) and I was kind of disapointed. I had to bump it to 60mg and I ran it for 8 weeks. Cycle was good but wasn’t awesome like I thought it would be

Wow, that's a pretty high dose for 8 weeks. What brand was it?

 

[Mathb33]

Wow, that's a pretty high dose for 8 weeks. What brand was it?

Agressive labz. Same place old witch used a couple months ago and had to stop week 3-4 or something! I had good comments from people I respect but I don’t know after all.

 

[Old Witch]

There seems to be a dichotomy of users with some responding better to DMZ, and others better to MSten.

I would conjecture that overall MSten is still stronger mg for mg by a lot.

 

[Old Witch]

Agressive labz. Same place old witch used a couple months ago and had to stop week 3-4 or something! I had good comments from people I respect but I don’t know after all.

I sure did. The combination of water from the dhea I was taking, the sides from dmz, the reaction I had to arimacare, and the blood pressure and body heat fluctuations from cannabis altogether were causing really strong headaches and pounding in the f ace and hands.

 

[Mathb33]

Any sides from the Msten? Eventually I will try it to see which compound my body reacts to better.

Sides were similar for me.. elevated BP and liver values slightly off too

 

[Mathb33]

I sure did. The combination of water from the dhea I was taking, the sides from dmz, the reaction I had to arimacare, and the blood pressure and body heat fluctuations from cannabis altogether were causing really strong headaches and pounding in the f ace and hands.

Did the dmz from AL give you any significant results from those 3-4 weeks? My first 3 weeks were really ehh

 

[JoePaul39]

Sides were similar for me.. elevated BP and liver values slightly off too

How high blood pressure go?

 

[jrock645]

DMZ seems to be really carb hungry, so a lot of the gains are just glycogen and water. Lethargy was bad for me, which led to me gorging carbs trying to offset it. Definitely looked soft and bloated on DMZ. Felt like absolute garbage. The lethargy was awful, made functioning at work really difficult sometimes.

Msten sounds like it’s much drier, but doesn’t produce the kind of numbers in terms of weight gain that DMZ does. Guess it depends on what you want. I’d rather get dry gains, personally.

 

[JoePaul39]

I think the reason I am not fatigued on DMZ (other than when I was sick) is due to being on trt. Fatigue could also be caused by liver stress.

 

[Old Witch]

Did the dmz from AL give you any significant results from those 3-4 weeks? My first 3 weeks were really ehh

By the end of week 2 I filled up a size large shirt really well and my wife told me I was getting too muscular. Literally 100% of that was water. I shrank in ONE day.

 

[Old Witch]

I think the reason I am not fatigued on DMZ (other than when I was sick) is due to being on trt. Fatigue could also be caused by liver stress.

Yeah the trt is most likely keeping you awake. Liver stress can cause lethargy but dmz isn’t liver toxic enough to do that, I don’t think. It’s definitely very toxic. But I’m talking anadrol/superdrol lethargy. One dose or two and you’re nodding off all day. That’s from the liver.

 

[JoePaul39]

Yeah the trt is most likely keeping you awake. Liver stress can cause lethargy but dmz isn’t liver toxic enough to do that, I don’t think. It’s definitely very toxic. But I’m talking anadrol/superdrol lethargy. One dose or two and you’re nodding off all day. That’s from the liver.

Ya, I don’t think I will ever run Superdrol. I like to enjoy my cycles so feeling like crap for 4 weeks doesn’t sound too appealing even if it gives more gains. You running test with the Superdrol?

 

[JoePaul39]

M Sten more liver toxic than DMZ in your opinion oldwitch?

 

[Old Witch]

M Sten more liver toxic than DMZ in your opinion oldwitch?

For sure.

 

[Old Witch]

You’re not going above 30mg MSten with any kind of comfort whatsoever.

DMZ 30mg is the bare minimum unless it’s stacked.

 

[bobi593]

By the end of week 2 I filled up a size large shirt really well and my wife told me I was getting too muscular. Literally 100% of that was water. I shrank in ONE day.

So DMZ not worth to run ?

 

[JoePaul39]

I love it. Only way to find out if you are a good responder is to run it. It is very popular on the board.

 

[Zvch]

Wow, that's a pretty high dose for 8 weeks. What brand was it?

That’s not a bad dose running it solo. A lot of guys go 60-80mg. I don’t think that’s at all necessary though.

I personally wouldn’t run DMZ under 50mg/day if I was running it solo or with Test.

Based on most reports, Msten seems to be about twice as strong as DMZ mg for mg. Not true in every case but 20mg Msten looks to be about 40mg DMZ, give or take, for a lot of people.

 

[Renew1]

That’s not a bad dose running it solo. A lot of guys go 60-80mg. I don’t think that’s at all necessary though.

I personally wouldn’t run DMZ under 50mg/day if I was running it solo or with Test.

Based on most reports, Msten seems to be about twice as strong as DMZ mg for mg. Not true in every case but 20mg Msten looks to be about 40mg DMZ, give or take, for a lot of people.

I would never run DMZ at that dose for 8 weeks. ... No matter what some other guys do.
I repect Swimfan (just as an example), but I would never run most of the dosages that he runs.

The twice as strong, mg for mg isn't true for me either. ... That's 2 out of 2. ... And many (of course not all) on this board would agree with out assessment.

 

[Mathb33]

I certainly feel msten 20mg would equal dmz 60mg.and about toxicity I mean the sarm runs I did in the past had my liver levels 3 to 4 times more elevated than 8 weeks of tbol + dmz did

 

[Mathb33]

Of course bp and lipids is another story though, won’t lie about that.

 

[JoePaul39]

Of course bp and lipids is another story though, won’t lie about that.

How low your HDL go on DMZ?

 

[Noteboom]

I took 10mg pre workout and 10mg before I slept. I went from 225 in bench to 265. Did 185 in squat due to lower back strength and ended up at 285 x6 at week 4. I kept all my gains but I didn’t mix creatine and DAA with my post workout along with my serms.

 

[Noteboom]

DMZ*

 

[Noteboom]

I did mix*

 

[RickyBlobby]

Like old witch said, MSTEN is obviously the stronger compound mg for mg. And I believe it is more likely to give you keepable gains.

 

[Cheeky Kunt]

Hmmm thread has me thinking as I’ve never ran either. Next year for my bulk if I ran these two a kicker/finisher, do you think it’d make more sense running DMZ as a kicker weeks 1 to 5-6ish then a 4 weeker later with Msten to end the cycle?

Edit: I’m saying as part of a 14 or 16 week test run, not 6 weeks DMZ followed by 4 weeks Msten, just to clarify lol

 

[RickyBlobby]

Hmmm thread has me thinking as I’ve never ran either. Next year for my bulk if I ran these two a kicker/finisher, do you think it’d make more sense running DMZ as a kicker weeks 1 to 5-6ish then a 4 weeker later with Msten to end the cycle?

Edit: I’m saying as part of a 14 or 16 week test run, not 6 weeks DMZ followed by 4 weeks Msten, just to clarify lol

I think that’s a pretty solid plan

 

[ChocolateClen]

I’ve tested DMZ on my monkey and DMZ+Msten on him and he responded super well to both. Better to the combo than to the single but good overall. It’s very user dependent though I’ve noticed and read. Some don’t respond to one or the other well. I tested both on my monkey at 40mg/week

The dmz + msten was a lot harsher for me than the dmz alone. Not sure it’s that’s due to the msten or the combo of the two together compounding sides. Overall running the two together worked out really well I think I put something like 20 lbs on.

 

[Chados]

The mg/mg discussion is fun to talk about but completely pointless. You have to look at effective dosages at all times.

Example, superdrol is much stronger than just about anything at low dosage and is probably safe running up to 50mg. Nobody runs superdrol at 50mg..

Msten is much stronger than dmz per mg but at effective dosage it's not. It's kinda like picking between apples and pears because at 4-6 weeks which everyone seems to be doing you won't build much more with either. In my opinion msten does add a little water but it also leans you out better than other bulking orals.