what do you think of this supp for healthy energy and focus?

Serving Size: 4 Capsules

Servings Per Container: 30 Servings

Amount per Serving

Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate Dihydrochloride 1500mg

P-5-P 100mg

Purenergy 200mg

Methylcobalamin 1mg

Methylfolate 1mg
 
It would depend of the price for me haha. But most of the time if I want pure energy I will just buy cheap caffeine pills and that works for me. But I've been stuck on mesomorph for awhile and it's hard to find a product that gives me more energy and focus than it.
 
purenergy is patented caffeine-pterostilbene by chromadex. also the doses of acetyl-l-carnitine-arginate and the active b vitamins have never been used in a formula combined. its not a preworkout but an everyday supplement for energy, focus and neurologicl health as well as many other health benefits. the ingredients are extremely expensive.
 
redman24 said:
purenergy is patented caffeine-pterostilbene by chromadex. also the doses of acetyl-l-carnitine-arginate and the active b vitamins have never been used in a formula combined. its not a preworkout but an everyday supplement for energy, focus and neurologicl health as well as many other health benefits. the ingredients are extremely expensive.
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You sound like a salesman
 
and i am certain that no other company uses ingredients of such cost for the price the product sells for.
have you ever seen a product contain 200mg purenergy? yeah, 2 or 3. did they have alcar-arginate at 1500mg? no, maybe 1g lclt or 500mg alcar.
actually methylfolat is insanely expensive, have you seen it at this dose? i often see methylcobalamin but mostly folic acid, not methylfolat.

i am going in the direction of life extension. only i use higher doses and think i can also make better formulas. this product also contains over 100mg pterostilbene, which might get overlooked as it is in the purenergy complex.
in the UK it sells for less than HPN M(6), which i think is a good product. i am only using the comparison as you will see that the ingredients are very costly and the product very cheap in relation.

you get:
200mg purenergy which is about 95mg caffeine and 105mg pterostilbene
1.5grams acetyl-l-carnitine arginate
100mg p-5-p
1mg or 1000mcg methylcobalamin
1mg or 1000mcg methylfolate

i barely make any money off of my formulas. i make them because i want to create better supplements and i feel happy about seeing my creation, as i think this is a very very good product to improve quality of life.
 
Is it only available in the UK? I see it priced at 39.99 pounds, or just over $50 I think. That's pretty pricey. Also, what do you like about ALCAR Arginate etc. over plain old ALCAR that's very affordable and has a ton of research on it? Yeah, the B-Vitamins are nice for general/cognitive health, but aren't going to really be that potent for "energy" or "cognitive enhancement" unless you're treating a deficiency IMO. If you really wanted the B-Vitamins for overall/general/cognitive health, you can get them all separately at the same doses (capped) for about $11/month. Of course, you have to make money on the supplement, but since I'm not sold on this form of ALCAR, I personally can't justify the cost. Could you perhaps expand on why you chose this form of ALCAR over normal ALCAR, preferably in regards to its effects/benefits in healthy individuals as far as energy and focus are concerned?
 
no, it improves energy, focus and mood, improves insulin sensitivity and has many beneficial effects on brain health and prevention of other health problems. it is an everyday product for people to feel better and improve health. double dosed it would make a good preworkout too. i would make sure to take with some carbs as pterostilben can lower blood sugar.
 
redman24 said:
no, it improves energy, focus and mood, improves insulin sensitivity and has many beneficial effects on brain health and prevention of other health problems. it is an everyday product for people to feel better and improve health. double dosed it would make a good preworkout too. i would make sure to take with some carbs as pterostilben can lower blood sugar.
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I know you'll probably get to it, and I'm just being impatient, but "could you perhaps expand on why you chose this form of ALCAR over normal ALCAR, preferably in regards to its effects/benefits in healthy individuals as far as energy and focus are concerned?"
 
redman24 said:
no, it improves energy, focus and mood, improves insulin sensitivity and has many beneficial effects on brain health and prevention of other health problems. it is an everyday product for people to feel better and improve health. double dosed it would make a good preworkout too. i would make sure to take with some carbs as pterostilben can lower blood sugar.
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For 50 bucks I will pass lol
 
i chose this form of alcar as it has beneficial effects on the brain that normal alcar does not. supplements are always more expensive in the UK. the purenergy is very expensive and much more than caffeine and pterostilbene separately. dont forget what an incredible supplement pterostilbene is.
also did you know that 70% of people with clinical depression are deficient in methylfolate and that antidepressants cannot work in case of a methylfolat deficieency? that means 70% of clinically depressed people are taking medicine with absolutely no purpose as it can not work. once methylfolat is supplemened the antidepressant can take effect. higher doses of methylfolate are also used for depression.
still, dr. throw ADs at patints without checking thei methylfolate blood levels. i was shocked too. thats why i thought it has to be in a product for mood.
its the combination of ingredients that will give acute energy that cant be compared to coffee with alcar and have long term benefits on mental and physical well being where i am convinced it will really improve many peoples quality of life. you can read about the methylfolate/depression connection, there are studies, read about pterstilbene and then about purenergy by chromadex and how it differs from taking caffeine and pteerostilbene separately.

this is for people who want to take it for years, not weeks. people who use products by aor, life extension, jarrows etc.
i really think i made something great and hope people benefit from it. i barely make money off of it and thats the truth, sadly.
 
as for just energy/mood, it is slightly more effective than normal alcar in healthy people but it has longterm benefits normal alcar does not, however it is not responsible for the price. purenergy is very expensive and methylfolat may not be that much at 1mg but you have to buy a kg which is about 10k GBP. the company does not have a million dollar budget.
 
redman24 said:
i chose this form of alcar as it has beneficial effects on the brain that normal alcar does not. supplements are always more expensive in the UK. the purenergy is very expensive and much more than caffeine and pterostilbene separately. dont forget what an incredible supplement pterostilbene is.
also did you know that 70% of people with clinical depression are deficient in methylfolate and that antidepressants cannot work in case of a methylfolat deficieency? that means 70% of clinically depressed people are taking medicine with absolutely no purpose as it can not work. once methylfolat is supplemened the antidepressant can take effect. higher doses of methylfolate are also used for depression.
still, dr. throw ADs at patints without checking thei methylfolate blood levels. i was shocked too. thats why i thought it has to be in a product for mood.
its the combination of ingredients that will give acute energy that cant be compared to coffee with alcar and have long term benefits on mental and physical well being where i am convinced it will really improve many peoples quality of life. you can read about the methylfolate/depression connection, there are studies, read about pterstilbene and then about purenergy by chromadex and how it differs from taking caffeine and pteerostilbene separately.

this is for people who want to take it for years, not weeks. people who use products by aor, life extension, jarrows etc.
i really think i made something great and hope people benefit from it. i barely make money off of it and thats the truth, sadly.
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Ok, I know what is going on. It is the end of the month and you have a quota to fill. How many units do you have to sell to meet your sales goal and bonus.
 
redman24 said:
i chose this form of alcar as it has beneficial effects on the brain that normal alcar does not. supplements are always more expensive in the UK. the purenergy is very expensive and much more than caffeine and pterostilbene separately. dont forget what an incredible supplement pterostilbene is.
also did you know that 70% of people with clinical depression are deficient in methylfolate and that antidepressants cannot work in case of a methylfolat deficieency? that means 70% of clinically depressed people are taking medicine with absolutely no purpose as it can not work. once methylfolat is supplemened the antidepressant can take effect. higher doses of methylfolate are also used for depression.
still, dr. throw ADs at patints without checking thei methylfolate blood levels. i was shocked too. thats why i thought it has to be in a product for mood.
its the combination of ingredients that will give acute energy that cant be compared to coffee with alcar and have long term benefits on mental and physical well being where i am convinced it will really improve many peoples quality of life. you can read about the methylfolate/depression connection, there are studies, read about pterstilbene and then about purenergy by chromadex and how it differs from taking caffeine and pteerostilbene separately.

this is for people who want to take it for years, not weeks. people who use products by aor, life extension, jarrows etc.
i really think i made something great and hope people benefit from it. i barely make money off of it and thats the truth, sadly.
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Could you post up relevant studies on these supposed benefits of this form of ALCAR? Helping with clinical depression is nice, but, like I said, that's treating a deficiency state, not inherently improving mood in healthy subjects with normal levels. Granted, it's not unhealthy or a bad idea to supplement with it anyway "just in case" or if you suspect something, but for a lot of people, it's not worth the premium, and that's fine. Also, what's so special about the "combination of ingredients?" Is there demonstrated synergy between these ingredients in regards to acute energy/focus/etc? I have read about purenergy, and it's interesting, but, again, I personally can't justify the premium over several other forms of caffeine and/or caffeine with some other synergistic ingredients.

Keep in mind all of this is just my $0.02, and I know I sound like I'm being critical, but I'm legitimately interested in hearing your explanation and perhaps learning something new, and you did ask us what we think?
 
redman24 said:
as for just energy/mood, it is slightly more effective than normal alcar in healthy people but it has longterm benefits normal alcar does not, however it is not responsible for the price. purenergy is very expensive and methylfolat may not be that much at 1mg but you have to buy a kg which is about 10k GBP. the company does not have a million dollar budget.
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Source(s) for that first part please?
 
you misunderstood. it is the methylfolat that 70% of clinically depressed people are deficient in. also i said that its not the form of alcar that makes it more expensive. acutely you may not feel much of a difference but this is a product for the long run. alcar-arginate for example can help with recovery from strokes and improves neurite growth by up to slightly above 21%.
as for studies, please google them yourself so you can form your own opinion rather than me posting a study that makes it look especially good for me.
as for purenergy there are significant improvements measurable in cognitive improvement 6 hours post ingestion when caffeine has long stopped working.
look, some companies use normal caffeine, a substance similar to pterostilbene and charge more for that. even if they used alcar, people seem to think its a great product so i used the most effective forms of all ingredients available at rarely seen dosages and the profit margin is a lot less than other products.
it does not cost 10 dollars to make or 5 or whatever most supp companies these days produce for. i did not save a cent in terms of ingredients.

i am interested, what do you think of life extension, their products, approach, prices etc.? for example they use max 675mg arginocarn in one of their premium products and i think that is a bit low so i went for 1500mg. as i didnt use the patented form it did not blow up the price.
 
are you only interested in the comparison of normal alcar to alcar-arginate in terms of energy and mood? im not sure i could give you anything beyond anecdotal evidence. but as using normal alcar would have not made a significant price difference i don't see the issue. of course if you only want acute benefits you could use caffeine and alcar but it wont be comparable as caffeine does not compare to purenergy which i don't think is available solo.
so i could have put in alcar and the product may be 2-3 pounds less but lose tons of its long term potential.
 
redman24 said:
you misunderstood. it is the methylfolat that 70% of clinically depressed people are deficient in. also i said that its not the form of alcar that makes it more expensive. acutely you may not feel much of a difference but this is a product for the long run. alcar-arginate for example can help with recovery from strokes and improves neurite growth by up to slightly above 21%.
as for studies, please google them yourself so you can form your own opinion rather than me posting a study that makes it look especially good for me.
as for purenergy there are significant improvements measurable in cognitive improvement 6 hours post ingestion when caffeine has long stopped working.
look, some companies use normal caffeine, a substance similar to pterostilbene and charge more for that. even if they used alcar, people seem to think its a great product so i used the most effective forms of all ingredients available at rarely seen dosages and the profit margin is a lot less than other products.
it does not cost 10 dollars to make or 5 or whatever most supp companies these days produce for. i did not save a cent in terms of ingredients.

i am interested, what do you think of life extension, their products, approach, prices etc.? for example they use max 675mg arginocarn in one of their premium products and i think that is a bit low so i went for 1500mg. as i didnt use the patented form it did not blow up the price.
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I did not misunderstand, I am aware that you were referring to the methylfolate in regards to clinical depression. I wasn't suggesting that it's the form of ALCAR that makes the product expensive, just that I'm not even convinced that it's more effective than normal ALCAR for energy/focus in healthy individuals. As for the purenergy, I agree that it's a solid ingredient, but, again, not everyone wants to pay a premium for it, as there are other ways of extending the effects of caffeine that are likely more affordable.

As for what I think of Life Extension, I think that they're rather expensive. They're typically not bad formulas, but you can usually find a cheaper alternative that is as effective, or VERY close, for a better price. Also, they tend to target more of a preventative audience, or people with health conditions, the elderly, etc, not so much targeting cognitive enhancement or nootropic effects in healthy young individuals, which, as I'm sure you know, can be VERY different than restoring cognition to baseline in the elderly or people with cognitive impairment etc. A common mistake is extrapolating effects in elderly and/or disease states to a healthy young population, as this often doesn't pan out.

Also, you're asking me to do my own research on this form of ALCAR? Really? You formulated it, so I assume you should have the research on hand, or at least be able to direct me towards it with minimal effort. You're the one who started the thread about your product, praising and defending it, but somehow you're drawing the line at actually supporting your claims with research?
 
redman24 said:
are you only interested in the comparison of normal alcar to alcar-arginate in terms of energy and mood? im not sure i could give you anything beyond anecdotal evidence. but as using normal alcar would have not made a significant price difference i don't see the issue. of course if you only want acute benefits you could use caffeine and alcar but it wont be comparable as caffeine does not compare to purenergy which i don't think is available solo.
so i could have put in alcar and the product may be 2-3 pounds less but lose tons of its long term potential.
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Yes, for the most part anyway. As I said, while the B-Vitamins are nice, generally healthy, and useful if treating a deficiency, I don't think that they'll provide any real energy/focus, especially acutely, in healthy individuals, which leaves people looking for energy and focus, like the description says, with the ALCAR form and the purenergy. As for why I want to know how this ALCAR compares to normal ALCAR, there's a ton of research on ALCAR showing that it works, while I'm not aware of this research on this other form of ALCAR, although I'm not saying it doesn't exist. That's why I'm asking you about it; you formulated it, so it should be easier for you to just point me towards some studies than for me to start from scratch. Also, new/novel forms of proven ingredients don't always pan out, see l-tyrosine vs NALT for example. Basically, I'd just like to know that this form of ALCAR even performs as well as normal ALCAR, based on research, not anecdotal reports, as I've read anecdotal reports go both ways with it, as well as for many ingredients.
 
im really busy but this is interesting: "healthy young individuals, which, as I'm sure you know, can be VERY different than restoring cognition to baseline in the elderly or people with cognitive impairment etc. A common mistake is extrapolating effects in elderly and/or disease states to a healthy young population, as this often doesn't pan out."

nobody has an optimally balanced brain, the human brain by nature is in a state of imbalance unless what you call baseline is stress, frustration, loneliness, anger, fatigue...these are all related to deficiencies or imbalances of neurotransmitters which everyone has. nobody brain is in a balanced state. this is the reason people respond different to drugs and prefer completely different effects. people who get addicted to heroin or meth, too completely different substances are unconsciously doing something that is related to a chemical imbalance. they are self medicating. that is the true purpose of my product. to achieve neurotransmitter balance and remove the symtoms that lead people to use stims, downers, alcohol, drugs, preworkouts, call it whatever, a balanced brain yields a state of inner calm and well, balance. i have yet to meet someone who did not feel like they were lacking something or felt overwhelmed by something. if my product can create balanced neurochemistry for which methylfolate for example is extremely important then it should improve peoples quality of life a lot. me for example am endorphin deficient, have high cortisol and excess glutamate, just some things that lead me to suffer from unbelievable chronic pain, fatigue and immune deficiency. fortunately i found medication that helps eventhough its inconsistent and needs to be switched around. i hope smart focus will allow me to reduce the absurd dosages of opioids and benzodiazepines i have to be on. i recently did 2 weeks withdrawal from extreme opioid dosages but after years the illness is still there so i had to go back on. withdrawal wasn't that hard as the pain it causes is nowhere near the pain my endorphin deficiency causes me. of course im an extreme case but everyones brain has imbalances and i am convinced smart focus can help eliminate them. of course it can only help endogenously, if one hates their life it wont make them happy...lol
 
redman24 said:
im really busy but this is interesting: "healthy young individuals, which, as I'm sure you know, can be VERY different than restoring cognition to baseline in the elderly or people with cognitive impairment etc. A common mistake is extrapolating effects in elderly and/or disease states to a healthy young population, as this often doesn't pan out."

nobody has an optimally balanced brain, the human brain by nature is in a state of imbalance unless what you call baseline is stress, frustration, loneliness, anger, fatigue...these are all related to deficiencies or imbalances of neurotransmitters which everyone has. nobody brain is in a balanced state. this is the reason people respond different to drugs and prefer completely different effects. people who get addicted to heroin or meth, too completely different substances are unconsciously doing something that is related to a chemical imbalance. they are self medicating. that is the true purpose of my product. to achieve neurotransmitter balance and remove the symtoms that lead people to use stims, downers, alcohol, drugs, preworkouts, call it whatever, a balanced brain yields a state of inner calm and well, balance. i have yet to meet someone who did not feel like they were lacking something or felt overwhelmed by something. if my product can create balanced neurochemistry for which methylfolate for example is extremely important then it should improve peoples quality of life a lot. me for example am endorphin deficient, have high cortisol and excess glutamate, just some things that lead me to suffer from unbelievable chronic pain, fatigue and immune deficiency. fortunately i found medication that helps eventhough its inconsistent and needs to be switched around. i hope smart focus will allow me to reduce the absurd dosages of opioids and benzodiazepines i have to be on. i recently did 2 weeks withdrawal from extreme opioid dosages but after years the illness is still there so i had to go back on. withdrawal wasn't that hard as the pain it causes is nowhere near the pain my endorphin deficiency causes me. of course im an extreme case but everyones brain has imbalances and i am convinced smart focus can help eliminate them. of course it can only help endogenously, if one hates their life it wont make them happy...lol
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I believe that you are intentionally perverting my comments and intentions, as well as my definition of various terms, including baseline, deficiency, impairment, etc. I stand by my assertion; many ingredients are only effective in treating/normalizing/restoring something to baseline or "normal" levels, but are not effective in improving these same things beyond "normal," or what can be referred to as a healthy "baseline." For example, some herbal extracts can increase testosterone in people with low-T, effectively "normalizing" it, or returning it to a "healthy baseline" level, but won't increase testosterone in people with normal T-levels. Similarly, many cognitive/nootropic ingredients are able to improve cognition/memory/etc in elderly, people with cognitive impairment, etc, but not in healthy young individuals. I don't see how there's any arguing with this, as there are a plethora of studies supporting these claims. Saying that "nobody has an optimally balanced brain" does not change this fact, or the applications/implications of my statements. I'm not arguing that your product isn't healthy, or is ineffective, just that it seems to be more catered as a "preventative" or "general health" type energy supplement, as opposed to something that's going to really provide more profound effects in healthy young individuals. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different population/audience, and these people may be willing to pay a premium for it, but other people may not be, especially since many of the ingredients are intended more to treat deficiencies (hence restoring 'x' to baseline) than improving on an already healthy baseline of 'x.'

Again, I'm only asking these questions since you asked for feedback/thoughts on the product. Also, could you please direct me towards some of the studies on this form of ALCAR in healthy individuals in regards to cognition/memory/energy/focus/fatigue/etc? I did a bit of searching, and couldn't find anything on it, or even anything on it in elderly individuals, animals, etc, only in vitro studies, which don't always pan out.
 
Also, the reason people turn to drugs isn't inherently a chemical imbalance, at least not on a practically relevant level. You say:
that is the true purpose of my product. to achieve neurotransmitter balance and remove the symtoms that lead people to use stims, downers, alcohol, drugs, preworkouts, call it whatever, a balanced brain yields a state of inner calm and well, balance
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But I don't think that paints the whole picture. Some people, myself included, use stimulants to improve some aspect of performance, above my baseline. Caffeine doesn't provide benefits solely from normalizing or balancing a chemical imbalance; it can improve energy/focus/etc, as well as even power output above a normal/healthy baseline. Similarly, people don't only drink or use other recreational drugs as the result of some chemical imbalance; some people just like the way it makes them feel, and provide effects that cannot be provided simply by optimizing or normalizing neurotransmitters and chemical imbalances; you're not going to get drunk/buzzed/high/etc from having balanced neurotransmitters. Granted, you'll feel better and be better equipped to handle stress, perhaps leading you to drink less, but not everyone drinks to cope with stress or in other unhealthy ways, but as a recreational substance because they enjoy the effects when hanging out or socializing.
 
but could you imagine that with an ideally balanced brain chemistry you would have no desire to increase your baseline? i think if you have ever been really ill then you would understand that feeling content and simply healthy physically and mentally surpasses any high in the world. i know this from bot being chronically ill and having done almost all drugs that exist. feeling balanced and truly healthy feels better than any drug. to know this one would have to know what true health feels like which i think these days is incredibly rare.

i will look for some studies for you. if you want to look yourself, the patented form is called arginocarn and made by sigma-tau, you should find studies googling that.
 
btw, the benefits of this supplement i am proud of are not what i was asked to create it for. it is an all-day everday energy and focus product for anyone, athlete or the elderly. other than nootropics, it does not radically release or increase the reuptake of a certain neurotransmitter and therefore may be great for one person but horrible for another but it works in a way to optimize brain function. especially methylfolat is very important in order to have balanced neurochemistry but it would not work properly without p-5-p and methylcobalamin. most companies who use vitamin blends dont know these things. adding folic acid for example would ruin the product.

as for acute effects, do you consume caffeine and in which form? i mean on a regular basis in the morning and not pre-performance etc.
if so, you would probably agree that if you get benefits they will be gone after 6 hours. with purenergy they are still constant. this avoids the afternoon, sorry this is my 2nd language, there is a word for it. it's the point where you get tired in the afternoon before you get an increase in energy again in the evening.
also blueberries are known for great cognitive benefis and health. pterostilbene is contained in blueberries. 1000kg contain about 100mg pterostilben. o course this is synthesized but bioequivalent. ideally, but this would further drive up the cost, i would add a source of blueberries, aurora blue, similar to adding green tea to epicatechin. anyway, pterostilben has significant cognitive benefits.
this product has the advantage that it won't have completely different effects from person to person. i would be surprised if not most people would feel energetic, focused, fit and in a good mood and free of stress all day. physical performance would also be enhanced. double dosed with a few additions one could have an incredible preworkout thats not only healthy but provides real performance gains and not fake neurochemical strenght increases through increased eletrical impulses improving contractions, which is damaging to the cns.
i won't reveal too much but stimsm pump ingredients and all the stuff in todays pres doesnt really increase performance. you get 10 ingredients and after the bottle how much stronger are you really? how much do b-a, lclt, citrulline really do? tartaric acid is harmful to mitochondria btw.

unfortunately for whatever reason the company i formulate for doesnt sell in the US as i would like to provide samples to people,especially the skeptics.
 
redman24 said:
but could you imagine that with an ideally balanced brain chemistry you would have no desire to increase your baseline? i think if you have ever been really ill then you would understand that feeling content and simply healthy physically and mentally surpasses any high in the world. i know this from bot being chronically ill and having done almost all drugs that exist. feeling balanced and truly healthy feels better than any drug. to know this one would have to know what true health feels like which i think these days is incredibly rare.

i will look for some studies for you. if you want to look yourself, the patented form is called arginocarn and made by sigma-tau, you should find studies googling that.
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Really, you're saying I "would understand" if I "have every been really ill?" Way to make sweeping generalizations about someone you know nothing about. I have been very sick physically, in the hospital, had major surgery, etc, and it does feel great, incredible, to just be healthy, but it's in many of our nature to always want to improve, to get better; bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, etc. Even with balanced brain chemistry, how can you say that there'd never be any desire to improve cognition/memory/etc above that healthy baseline? Maybe you're pursuing a difficult degree, working a difficult and intellectually challenging job, etc, and want a little edge above your baseline (hence the demand for nootropics and cognitive enchancement), or want a little bit more to beat out the competition, or get the job done faster, etc. Also, another similar situation would be "ideal" or "balanced" testosterone levels. Yeah, it's healthy, good for you, etc, but some people still want more, and take steroids to increase their T to supraphysiological levels. For some people, just being "healthy" isn't enough, they want to be the "best" that they possibly can in some way, either the biggest and strongest, or the smartest, etc. Hell, you even included caffeine, which actually takes you beyond your baseline in terms of energy/focus/strength/etc; caffeine isn't something that works by optimizing your brain chemistry. If, as you said, with optimal brain chemistry you'd never want to increase your baseline, why would you need caffeine?

As for the study that you linked in your last post, I'm aware of that one and I think two others, but, as I said, they're all in vitro studies. You said that "it is slightly more effective than normal alcar in healthy people," but I don't know what you're basing that on, as I have yet to even see a single human study on it, let alone anything comparing it to ALCAR. How do we know that this will pan out in vivo, yet alone in humans, particularly healthy humans without some form of cognitive impairment or defficiency. Since the ALCAR-thing and caffeine are the only things that will actually provide real benefits independent of addressing a deficiency IMO, I'd really like to be sure that the ALCAR-thing is actually effective. It doesn't even have to be more effective than regular ALCAR, but at least there's a ton of research on ALCAR so I know it works, where I don't know if this does or not. Not every new/novel form of a proven ingredient turns out to be better than the older form (see l-tyrosine vs NALT), or even ends up working at all (see CEE vs creatine monohydrate).

redman24 said:
btw, the benefits of this supplement i am proud of are not what i was asked to create it for. it is an all-day everday energy and focus product for anyone, athlete or the elderly. other than nootropics, it does not radically release or increase the reuptake of a certain neurotransmitter and therefore may be great for one person but horrible for another but it works in a way to optimize brain function. especially methylfolat is very important in order to have balanced neurochemistry but it would not work properly without p-5-p and methylcobalamin. most companies who use vitamin blends dont know these things. adding folic acid for example would ruin the product.

as for acute effects, do you consume caffeine and in which form? i mean on a regular basis in the morning and not pre-performance etc.
if so, you would probably agree that if you get benefits they will be gone after 6 hours. with purenergy they are still constant. this avoids the afternoon, sorry this is my 2nd language, there is a word for it. it's the point where you get tired in the afternoon before you get an increase in energy again in the evening.
also blueberries are known for great cognitive benefis and health. pterostilbene is contained in blueberries. 1000kg contain about 100mg pterostilben. o course this is synthesized but bioequivalent. ideally, but this would further drive up the cost, i would add a source of blueberries, aurora blue, similar to adding green tea to epicatechin. anyway, pterostilben has significant cognitive benefits.
this product has the advantage that it won't have completely different effects from person to person. i would be surprised if not most people would feel energetic, focused, fit and in a good mood and free of stress all day. physical performance would also be enhanced. double dosed with a few additions one could have an incredible preworkout thats not only healthy but provides real performance gains and not fake neurochemical strenght increases through increased eletrical impulses improving contractions, which is damaging to the cns.
i won't reveal too much but stimsm pump ingredients and all the stuff in todays pres doesnt really increase performance. you get 10 ingredients and after the bottle how much stronger are you really? how much do b-a, lclt, citrulline really do? tartaric acid is harmful to mitochondria btw.

unfortunately for whatever reason the company i formulate for doesnt sell in the US as i would like to provide samples to people,especially the skeptics.
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I consume caffeine regularly. I will sometimes have a cup or two of coffee, but typically get my caffeine from my nootropic supplement, which, since you asked, contains caffeine anhydrous, dicaffeine malate, theacrine (not technically caffeine, I know), l-theanine, and l-ornithine HCL. As for purenergy helping the caffeine last longer, you mentioned 6 hours, that's great, but it's by no means "constant" like you said, as it inevitably wears off eventually. Since you asked what I use, note the the synergistic combination of caffeine and l-ornithine HCL has actually been shown to be more effective than caffeine alone at 8 hours. That's even longer than 6 hours my friend, and it's not expensive to add some l-ornithine HCL to caffeine. Dicaffeine malate also has a somewhat longer half-life than caffeine anhydrous, which helps extend/prolong the effects as well.

What on God's green earth are you talking about saying that things like LCLT and citrulline don't actually increase performance, but B-vitamins do? Come on my friend, don't spit in the face of science to sell your product. Caffeine and citrulline are some of the most tried-and true, proven acute performance enhancing pre-workout ingredients out there, and neither of them break the bank. What on earth is "fake neurochemical strength (sp) increases?" Are you talking about caffeine's effect on power output, because your product also contains caffeine, and by lifting more weight after using caffeine, you build more muscle and more strength, as you lifted heavier than you could have otherwise. This is a good thing, obviously, and isn't "fake" by any means. Damaging to the CNS, what? You won't reveal too much, because there's nothing to reveal...
 
you, for example have high dopamine levels. and you like to argue it seems. tartaric acid damages mitochondria.
pterostilbene is one of the most incredible compounds occuring in blueberries and 100mg are the content of 1000kg of blueberries.
have you read the purenergy results. vs. caffeine? it is not only about 6 hours. there are many differences and the molecule is not caffeine and pterostilben stacked but it is a different compound that has different effects than combining caffeine and pterostilben.

i make barely any money off of this and nobody from the US will buy it anyway so i am surprised as i think all supps on the market are currently flawed but it seems when i post a formula that people probably would not buy it despite it being something that is on a level with or above LEF products which are truly based on science and more expensive (in the UK everything costs more, most US supps are in this price range).

a performance increase to me is increasing mitochondrial energy production by over 100% and not getting maybe a rep or so more. which preworkouts, if you remove the stims, really cause a significant immediate and long term performance increase?

l-carnitine fumarate combined with ubiquinol and shilajit at 3g, 200mgs, 200mgs would yield something that can't be attributed to placebo.
strangely whenever something looks unusual people get sceptical and sooner or later make accusations about trying to advertise or making money, which is sad as i try to make products that actually work. i think the best looking pre currently is core fury but there are some things that are unnecessary and some could be replaced by more effective ingredients.
 
i am saying that stimulants which act as strong releasers or reuptake inhibitors of certain neurotransmitters are damaging to the cns. small amounts of caffeine are not.
 
redman24 said:
you, for example have high dopamine levels. and you like to argue it seems. tartaric acid damages mitochondria.
pterostilbene is one of the most incredible compounds occuring in blueberries and 100mg are the content of 1000kg of blueberries.
have you read the purenergy results. vs. caffeine? it is not only about 6 hours. there are many differences and the molecule is not caffeine and pterostilben stacked but it is a different compound that has different effects than combining caffeine and pterostilben.

i make barely any money off of this and nobody from the US will buy it anyway so i am surprised as i think all supps on the market are currently flawed but it seems when i post a formula that people probably would not buy it despite it being something that is on a level with or above LEF products which are truly based on science and more expensive (in the UK everything costs more, most US supps are in this price range).

a performance increase to me is increasing mitochondrial energy production by over 100% and not getting maybe a rep or so more. which preworkouts, if you remove the stims, really cause a significant immediate and long term performance increase?

l-carnitine fumarate combined with ubiquinol and shilajit at 3g, 200mgs, 200mgs would yield something that can't be attributed to placebo.
strangely whenever something looks unusual people get sceptical and sooner or later make accusations about trying to advertise or making money, which is sad as i try to make products that actually work. i think the best looking pre currently is core fury but there are some things that are unnecessary and some could be replaced by more effective ingredients.
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Thanks for the diagnosis, Dr. Google. How much do I owe you? As I've said, I don't think that LEF is the "gold standard" for effectiveness of supplements for the target demographic of AM (see healthy individuals interested in maximizing physical and/or mental performance and capabilities), but that's not their goal; they're more interested in general health, especially as we age. You're saying that the only way to have a "performance increase" is to "increase mitochondrial energy production?" That's leaving out a bunch of MoAs, no? Also, are you saying that citrulline, nitrates, PeakO2, rhodiola, etc, don't actually increase performance? How can you say that and still claim to care about science? Please, show me studies where pterostilbene or B-Vitamins improve exercise performance more than citrulline, nitrates, rhodiola, etc. You say that ALL supplements on the market are flawed, but you've created the perfect formula that is beyond reproach? Ok...
 
Also, are you saying that citrulline, nitrates, PeakO2, rhodiola, etc, don't actually increase performance? How can you say that and still claim to care about science? Please, show me studies where pterostilbene or B-Vitamins improve exercise performance more than citrulline, nitrates, rhodiola, etc. You say that ALL supplements on the market are flawed, but you've created the perfect formula that is beyond reproach? Ok...

those substances are stone age man. they are herbs, supps...its time fo nutraceuticals o call them whatever, products occuring in nature with pharmacological action but no or insignificant sides. better than supps and medicine.
rhodiola? if herbal extracts then ashwaghanda, preferably ksm-66, aurora blue, bsm-95 curcumin, pomegranate extract.
well, lc-fumarate increases performance drastically, citrulline honestly is the useles part of CM. malic acid improves performance much more than citrulline. ubiquinol and shilajit, pyruvate (only when bound to a specific molecule) enhance performance and pureneregy in high doses is a stimulant which will not damage the cns yet give plenty of energy pwo. core knows purenergy is great, they are a good company. but using 400mg makes the product costly, thats why they combine it with normal caffeine.
before you ask for studies. i used these substances while cutting to 6%bf, training full body twice daily and incresing my strength by 1-2 reps on every exercise every workout. i wont mention numbers because you wont believe me when i tell you i moved more wight than ronnie coleman on back exercises while weighiing 190 lbs. only matt kroc was slightly stronger.
 
btw, LEF makes things like amp-k activator. then we see it in BB supplements. LEF may be more expensive which is due to the patented ingredients, advertising, magazines, lawsuits etc.
but a lot of innovation comes from there, i am sure they knew about pterostilben before BB companies started using it.

btw, regardless of marketing, what do you think of M(6) by HPN? comparing the formula to mine. keep in mind, M(6) is more expensive in the UK. c3g is also underdosed and can be found blackberries in decent amounts. c3g is supposed to improve insulin sensitivity, pterostilbene does this very effectively.
so i could now say i made a better non-stim fatburner. or would you prefer caffeine and underdosed c3g and pay more than getting caffeine-pterostilbene, alcar-arginate and high doses of active b vits. you say they are just vitamins but who uses these doses of active forms? i have another product that is only these vits in huge dosages plus some niacinamide. in massive doses they can heal depression, heal nerve damage, reduce anxiety and so on and so forth...
 
redman24 said:
Also, are you saying that citrulline, nitrates, PeakO2, rhodiola, etc, don't actually increase performance? How can you say that and still claim to care about science? Please, show me studies where pterostilbene or B-Vitamins improve exercise performance more than citrulline, nitrates, rhodiola, etc. You say that ALL supplements on the market are flawed, but you've created the perfect formula that is beyond reproach? Ok...

those substances are stone age man. they are herbs, supps...its time fo nutraceuticals o call them whatever, products occuring in nature with pharmacological action but no or insignificant sides. better than supps and medicine.
rhodiola? if herbal extracts then ashwaghanda, preferably ksm-66, aurora blue, bsm-95 curcumin, pomegranate extract.
well, lc-fumarate increases performance drastically, citrulline honestly is the useles part of CM. malic acid improves performance much more than citrulline. ubiquinol and shilajit, pyruvate (only when bound to a specific molecule) enhance performance and pureneregy in high doses is a stimulant which will not damage the cns yet give plenty of energy pwo. core knows purenergy is great, they are a good company. but using 400mg makes the product costly, thats why they combine it with normal caffeine.
before you ask for studies. i used these substances while cutting to 6%bf, training full body twice daily and incresing my strength by 1-2 reps on every exercise every workout. i wont mention numbers because you wont believe me when i tell you i moved more wight than ronnie coleman on back exercises while weighiing 190 lbs. only matt kroc was slightly stronger.
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Surely you're aware that it's fallacious logic to insist that 'ingredient(s) x' work simply because you were strong/lean when you used them. Frankly, it doesn't matter if I believe that you were stronger than Ronnie Coleman or not, as it's entirely irrelevant. Some of the best scientists and most knowledgeable researchers aren't bodybuilders/powerlifters, and some huge/strong guys know nothing about supplements, despite what they'd have you think. I know monsters who swore by CEE? Are you going to tell me that CEE works now?

Stone age supplements? How does it matter how old they are? Does a supplement stop working 10 years after it becomes popular? You're saying rhodiola doesn't work? There are a plethora of studies showing it's effective for many uses, from endurance to reducing fatigue and improving cognitive performance and reducing stress. I agree ashwagandha is great, so at least we can agree on something. You really expect me to care more about a random forum bro's "trust me, I got huge from this, so it must work" over peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies? What sort of a fool do you take me for?
redman24 said:
btw, LEF makes things like amp-k activator. then we see it in BB supplements. LEF may be more expensive which is due to the patented ingredients, advertising, magazines, lawsuits etc.
but a lot of innovation comes from there, i am sure they knew about pterostilben before BB companies started using it.

btw, regardless of marketing, what do you think of M(6) by HPN? comparing the formula to mine. keep in mind, M(6) is more expensive in the UK. c3g is also underdosed and can be found blackberries in decent amounts. c3g is supposed to improve insulin sensitivity, pterostilbene does this very effectively.
so i could now say i made a better non-stim fatburner. or would you prefer caffeine and underdosed c3g and pay more than getting caffeine-pterostilbene, alcar-arginate and high doses of active b vits. you say they are just vitamins but who uses these doses of active forms? i have another product that is only these vits in huge dosages plus some niacinamide. in massive doses they can heal depression, heal nerve damage, reduce anxiety and so on and so forth...
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Now you're claiming that your combination of ALCAR, a novel form of caffeine, and B-vitamins is a great fat burner? And how is it stim-free with caffeine? Like I said, compare it to some other formulas/supplements that are popular around here, not LEF, as I have already said I do not consdier LEF to be the holy grail or gold standard of supplements for the target demographic of AM, and the same goes for HPN...
 
Gamer Up would be far superior
 
Powercage said:
Gamer Up would be far superior
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True, as would several Nootropic-type supplements from quality companies on AM, and that's one point I was trying to make; if you're on AM and you're saying how great your supplement is, why compare it to LEF? I'd take several supplements for energy/focus/cognition/etc over this formula, including but not limited to NootropiMax, Clear Edge, Elixir, Gamer Up, and Nootrol.
 
I am actually picking up OL elixir as I have heard good things about the effects. I will run alternating with Focus by SizeSlim which works well for me
 
Also, Mr. Stronger Than Ronnie Coleman, are you really attributing your results to carnitine and B-Vitamins when you admit to taking AAS? Are you suffering from amnesia, or are you just trying to trick people into thinking that you got "stronger than Ronnie Coleman" from using your supplement?

Edit: I'll also humor you by asking what back exercises you lifted more than Ronnie on? I've seen a video of him doing full ROM bent over rows with 405 for reps like it was just the bar, and do several reps with 495.
 
Woody said:
lol at stim free with caffeine.
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Lol at this entire thread, but especially lol at the part where he creates a thread to promote/hype a supplement that he formulated, continues to praise and proclaim the immense benefits of the formula and its ingredients, but then decides to draw the line of promoting/shilling at providing/referencing studies on the ingredients he's making his bold claims on when asked for them, and then later says that I shouldn't ask for studies because he used these ingredients and was "stronger than Ronnie Coleman," all while saying how he cares about and formulates based on science. You can't make this stuff up!
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you take things out of context. i did not mention the ingredients in this supp in regards to performance. i mentioned which ingredients caused significant performance increases pre-workout, which occured when the ingredients where introduced as whatever aas where a constant and therefore did not provide any out of the ordinary strength gains anymore. you dont keep gaining several reps per workout when you have been on aas for for months or years.

the ingredients i mentioned were lc-fumarate, ubiquinol, shilajit and some others. also you keep talking about alcar, caffeine and b vits but forget the pterostilben which is at least as potent as a nutrient patitioner as c3g which is even underdosed.

all the nootropics and stims you mention have two problems. nootropics might work for one but make another feel ****. some love choline forms and others get brainfog. you cannot predict an effect and you will never know what is going on at which receptor with which neurotransmitter and what results or consequences this may have in the long run. there is great potential for long term-sides. stimulants like j.regia, eria jarensis or ampiberry burn out the cns and are therefore bad for brain function long term. you are comparing acute effects which may be stronger of unhealthy supplements to something that will have countless longterm benefits.

i bench rowed 410lbs. it means lying on a bench with the barbell underrneath and pulling it towards you, like reverse bench press. i also dumbbell rowed 220lbs for reps easily and once did a set with 260 pounds. i did pullups with 140 pounds added weight.
 
btw slinmax is so obviously copied off of recompagen. na-r-ala and agmatine in one supp was never done before recompagen. weeks later there it is...
 
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