What detrimental sides accompany TRT?

Whacked

Whacked

Well-known member
By completely shutting down the endogenous production after being on TRT for years, what hormones and natural processes are lost or NOT being produced as a result of exogenous/TRT administration.

Would DHEA be wise to add?
 
I've wondered that as well, never got a reply. My DHEA came back below normal range, so I took 10mg and became very irritable. Not sure about other hormones which could be affected, I'm sure there are.
 
lexmuscle said:
I've wondered that as well, never got a reply. My DHEA came back below normal range, so I took 10mg and became very irritable. Not sure about other hormones which could be affected, I'm sure there are.
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Same here. I've always felt that DHEA helped my energy levels but it also seemed like it went straight to my nipples too. Maybe instead of 25mgs I should take a much lower dose.
 
I would take hcg while on trt... 5mg dhea is what I usually took when on trt also. I quit the trt, & started 6mg clo eod & 25mg 7keto now with zma & d3...
 
I think I'm going to try splitting the 25mg and do 12.5mg a day for a bit to see if I notice any positive effect.
 
Maybe try Pregnenalone instead? More of an upstream parent hormone? If your body needs DHEA, it will get it from or force this pathway?

lexmuscle said:
I've wondered that as well, never got a reply. My DHEA came back below normal range, so I took 10mg and became very irritable. Not sure about other hormones which could be affected, I'm sure there are.
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How long were you on TRT?

PS: Clomid makses me suicidal It's BAD! LOL

justmechillin said:
I would take hcg while on trt... 5mg dhea is what I usually took when on trt also. I quit the trt, & started 6mg clo eod & 25mg 7keto now with zma & d3...
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5+ years of TRT .... Recovery ain't gonna happen for this guy. Lol

justmechillin said:
3mo on trt. You should try clo e3d or e4d then. I get stronger than he!! on low dose clo.
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You self prescribed yourself lifelong TRT? LOL- damn. Why not keep self medicating and just add things in until you feel right?
 
Juiced for years (conservatively), quit, went on test in low doses to stabilize things (I was definitely LOW T pre-juice and certain post-juice and needed it).....never looked back

Felt great ever since. 100mg 2x/week + Erase

kisaj said:
You self prescribed yourself lifelong TRT? LOL- damn. Why not keep self medicating and just add things in until you feel right?
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I am trying not to throw gas on this, but there are several threads going on with folks upset because people are getting labs and finding that Erase never had an effect on e2 and now they have changed the formula telling people to use the new one. It is just rubbing people wrong.
 
At 200mg you need to watch your RBC and Hematocrit! Donate blood regularly. Additionally if you drop your dies to the physiological range you may likely get by without an AI. There is nothing that impressive if at all different between being at 1400 on 200 and 800-900 at 100-125...except aromatization and increased RBC and hematocrit. Not healthy longevity wise IMO

I wouldnt bother with DHEA as it can elevate estrogen and cause acne and a host of other issues.
 
David Dunn said:
At 200mg you need to watch your RBC and Hematocrit! Donate blood regularly. Additionally if you drop your dies to the physiological range you may likely get by without an AI. There is nothing that impressive if at all different between being at 1400 on 200 and 800-900 at 100-125...except aromatization and increased RBC and hematocrit. Not healthy longevity wise IMO

I wouldnt bother with DHEA as it can elevate estrogen and cause acne and a host of other issues.
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^^^ This 100%
 
Ooooo. Thanks for the heads up!!
I missed that! ;)

kisaj said:
I am trying not to throw gas on this, but there are several threads going on with folks upset because people are getting labs and finding that Erase never had an effect on e2 and now they have changed the formula telling people to use the new one. It is just rubbing people wrong.
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Thanks Brutha!

David Dunn said:
At 200mg you need to watch your RBC and Hematocrit! Donate blood regularly. Additionally if you drop your dies to the physiological range you may likely get by without an AI. There is nothing that impressive if at all different between being at 1400 on 200 and 800-900 at 100-125...except aromatization and increased RBC and hematocrit. Not healthy longevity wise IMO I wouldnt bother with DHEA as it can elevate estrogen and cause acne and a host of other issues.
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Is this also purported to be true of pregnenolone as well????

FireRescue said:
Oral DHEA is not very effective for purposes other than raising estrogen.
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For what it's worth. 200
Mg of trt only gets me into the 600's. age and genetics play a factor in correct testosterone doseage for TRT. Older men don't metabolize test as fast as younger men. Older can get by with less test and still have higher test levels than younger men on same doseage. I get bloodwork done as does my father - both on hrt. His prescribed dose is less than mine also.
 
Where did you get that? That is a pretty false general statement to just lay out there regarding test levels. In fact, if you poke around here, you'll see the older gentlemen needing more test than those of us in our 30s to get the same results. 200mg puts me off the charts and when I was starting out years ago, I'd be around 1200 6 days out.
 
Whacked said:
By completely shutting down the endogenous production after being on TRT for years, what hormones and natural processes are lost or NOT being produced as a result of exogenous/TRT administration.

Would DHEA be wise to add?
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Intra testicular testosterone (ITT) levels drop over time. This will lower sperm production, cause decreased mobility in sperm, increased % of deformed sperm, etc.

ITT can be increased by periodic use of HCG to stimulate the pituitary to produce FSH which is needed for production of ITT.
 
kisaj said:
Where did you get that? That is a pretty false general statement to just lay out there regarding test levels. In fact, if you poke around here, you'll see the older gentlemen needing more test than those of us in our 30s to get the same results. 200mg puts me off the charts and when I was starting out years ago, I'd be around 1200 6 days out.
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Ill find where I read that kisaj. Of course i wouldn't just spout off a false general statement based on nothing. What have you read that indicates otherwise....besides forum posts...
 
What difference would it make? If a user posts his numbers and age, how is that any less valid than some study that you may point to? Not to mention, my own labs.
 
Lol ok kisaj your labs trump my labs and my fathers labs, and the scientific study I was going to post. . My bad. Thanks for the educational input.
 
If you're not using a SERM as TRT or HCG with your test injections, you most likely need to supplement pregnenolone and DHEA.

If you're using a SERM, then your HPTA is intact.

If you're using testosterone, you should also be using HCG. HCG as a LH analog increases the activity of the P450scc enzyme, converting CHOL to PREG. Even if you're using HCG, I'd still recommend testing pregnenolone and DHEA-S.

IMO, if you're not primary, low dose SERM with low dose AI should be first line.
 
soma said:
Lol ok kisaj your labs trump my labs and my fathers labs, and the scientific study I was going to post. . My bad. Thanks for the educational input.
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So this has come down to "oh yeah, well mine's better..." So stupid.

Anyway, good that everything is working out for you and I wish you happy living and continued success.
 
pacificmd said:
If you're not using a SERM as TRT or HCG with your test injections, you most likely need to supplement pregnenolone and DHEA.

If you're using a SERM, then your HPTA is intact.

If you're using testosterone, you should also be using HCG. HCG as a LH analog increases the activity of the P450scc enzyme, converting CHOL to PREG. Even if you're using HCG, I'd still recommend testing pregnenolone and DHEA-S.

IMO, if you're not primary, low dose SERM with low dose AI should be first line.
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I've tried both oral DHEA and Pregnenolone, and they made me irritable. Preg made my heart pound. Should I try transdermal DHEA and Preg? My endo said low DHEA doesn't matter for someone on TRT. I've tried HCG and it didn't do sh-t, pretty sure it was bad HCG though. I was diagnosed primary, but TRT still shriveled my nuts and keeps my sack tight to where it looks like I have a babies scrotum.
 
Your endo is misinformed. I believe he may consider dhea as simply a precursor to test (if that's true, that's pretty bad especially for an endo). When in fact dhea has several positive roles independent of testosterone. This is why I consider low dose serm first line. Axis intact, so have much less to worry about in regards to shutting the hpta down. There's a lot more to consider than just replacing test and LH (HCG). A lot more gets disturbed than just test and LH.

Don't get me wrong, test, AI, hcg is a phenomenal protocol and magnitudes better than t alone. However, I just don't think it's the best. I believe everyone should be supplementing preg and dhea with a compromised hpta. Pregnenolone most importantly. However, under physician supervision and based on blood work and symptoms.
 
lexmuscle said:
I've tried both oral DHEA and Pregnenolone, and they made me irritable. Preg made my heart pound. Should I try transdermal DHEA and Preg? My endo said low DHEA doesn't matter for someone on TRT. I've tried HCG and it didn't do sh-t, pretty sure it was bad HCG though. I was diagnosed primary, but TRT still shriveled my nuts and keeps my sack tight to where it looks like I have a babies scrotum.
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Do you have preg and dhea-s levels? What dosages? Actually, nm. This is getting too close to crossing the line of establishing dr-patient relationship. Nothing I say should constitute medical advice.

You should ask your doc these questions and report any and all side effects you experience, even if he didn't prescribe the medication or supplement. He should also know about all supplements and other meds you are taking.

Even though you're primary, exogenous test will still drop your lh and lead to testicular atrophy in many cases. You may want to ask your physician about another trial of hcg. With prolonged atrophy, hcg may take much longer to reverse it. Of course I don't have nor want more info about your case. You should clearly express all of your concerns with your doc. If they are unwilling or unable to address your concerns...
 
Doc. What is your speciality?
 
pacificmd said:
Don't get me wrong, test, AI, hcg is a phenomenal protocol and magnitudes better than t alone.
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I am curious what you feel is good timing/dosing for HCG administration for both
-a once per week IM T injeciton
-a twice per week subQ T injections

It seems the standard with a 1/week T administration is to use 500iu of HCG the 2 days prior to the next weekly T injection. However I have seen some suggest 250iu every other day throughout treatment.

With a twice per weeks subQ administration of T do you think 500iu the day before the T injection would be best?

Thanks for your opinion :)
 
FireRescue said:
I am curious what you feel is good timing/dosing for HCG administration for both
-a once per week IM T injeciton
-a twice per week subQ T injections

It seems the standard with a 1/week T administration is to use 500iu of HCG the 2 days prior to the next weekly T injection. However I have seen some suggest 250iu every other day throughout treatment.

With a twice per weeks subQ administration of T do you think 500iu the day before the T injection would be best?

Thanks for your opinion :)
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Wow. Your biweekly protocol IS our standard protocol. If E is elevated prior to starting protocol, we will add AI day of T injection and titrate to E of 20-30. Also add preg and dhea
 
David Dunn said:
I wouldnt bother with DHEA as it can elevate estrogen and cause acne and a host of other issues.
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Why not test, see if you're low, try it and test again? I used oral DHEA quite a bit in the past. I don't take it anymore because I'm near the top of the range without it, but I don't see much harm in trying it if you're low.

Edit : I went back and looked at my lab work and I guess I did see a bump in E2. It was a little low without it, so not a big deal. If E2 control is not an issue but low DHEA-s, I don't see much harm in trying it. I might try transdermal at some point to see if also bumps E2.
 
pacificmd said:
Wow. Your biweekly protocol IS our standard protocol. If E is elevated prior to starting protocol, we will add AI day of T injection and titrate to E of 20-30. Also add preg and dhea
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It's interesting that your practice sees a need to add so many other items to patient's protocol.
 
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