What could I add to my fat loss stack?

Em3

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I know what I take is already more than necessary but I fucking hate dieting with a passion. So I don't mind spending a little extra if there is a legitimate product that can help. Already running an extreme caloric deficit (1650-1850 cal deficit depending on mood) hitting 60g fat/210g prot per day with the tiny little bit of left over calories going to carbs based on that days activity level. With that being said are there any ingredients that I may not realize that may be useful?

Here is my current stack at max dosage(twice daily) (I don't go into a diet straight into this).

Thermagize XT - 1 pill, New Formula (I preferred the old with hig/hord and more Alpha Y though)
Higenamine - 30mg
Garcinia Cambogia - 1,000mg (50% HCA)
Capsimax - 50mg (+Apple cider vinegar combo)
Paradoxine - 100mg
Yohimbine Hcl - 10mg
Green Coffee Bean 1,200mg (50% ChlAcid)
Reduce XT

I take this entire dose, twice per day. Once upon waking, I then eat 2 hours afterwards(~50g protein, ~8 fat, no carbs except Psy husk pills). 2 hours after eating, I then take the 2nd dose.

I just ordered raspberry ketones 500mg which I plan on adding in at 1g and potentially moving it up to 2g per dose(4g total per day).

One interesting item I've run across was African Mango extract, but I can't not find much information or feed back on it. Few random companies selling it in varying "extract ratios" aka 4:1,5:1,10:1 with Life extension selling what seems to be a patented version of it at what would be about $18 for a 1 month supply. A bit pricey for a stand alone ingredient.

Feel free to discuss some options.
 
cheftepesh1

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African mango did nothing for me personally. I would look at thermoamp from Iconic. It’s non stim and works well. I personally take it 3 times a day instead of 2 and it helps a lot.
 

Em3

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African mango did nothing for me personally. I would look at thermoamp from Iconic. It’s non stim and works well. I personally take it 3 times a day instead of 2 and it helps a lot.
Would basically only be providing me one ingredient. Already take paradoxine which I listed, though I guess I should of listed as well that I have forskolin as well I take with meals. Not sure it would be worth the price. No knowledge of what that compound is in it.
 
sns8778

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I know what I take is already more than necessary but I fucking hate dieting with a passion. So I don't mind spending a little extra if there is a legitimate product that can help. Already running an extreme caloric deficit (1650-1850 cal deficit depending on mood) hitting 60g fat/210g prot per day with the tiny little bit of left over calories going to carbs based on that days activity level. With that being said are there any ingredients that I may not realize that may be useful?

Here is my current stack at max dosage(twice daily) (I don't go into a diet straight into this).

Thermagize XT - 1 pill, New Formula (I preferred the old with hig/hord and more Alpha Y though)
Higenamine - 30mg
Garcinia Cambogia - 1,000mg (50% HCA)
Capsimax - 50mg (+Apple cider vinegar combo)
Paradoxine - 100mg
Yohimbine Hcl - 10mg
Green Coffee Bean 1,200mg (50% ChlAcid)
Reduce XT

I take this entire dose, twice per day. Once upon waking, I then eat 2 hours afterwards(~50g protein, ~8 fat, no carbs except Psy husk pills). 2 hours after eating, I then take the 2nd dose.

I just ordered raspberry ketones 500mg which I plan on adding in at 1g and potentially moving it up to 2g per dose(4g total per day).

One interesting item I've run across was African Mango extract, but I can't not find much information or feed back on it. Few random companies selling it in varying "extract ratios" aka 4:1,5:1,10:1 with Life extension selling what seems to be a patented version of it at what would be about $18 for a 1 month supply. A bit pricey for a stand alone ingredient.

Feel free to discuss some options.
You have a great stack going.

I really like Lean Edge and think it would be a great addition to your stack. It does have 150 mg. Paradoxine and 50 mg. Capsimax in it so it would either give you higher dosing or allow you to bump your dose back slightly.

I think the Raspberry Ketones will be a good addition for you. It isn't popular here on AM but its a great ingredient and I think very underrated. Basically, everyone liked it and then Dr. Oz overhyped it and then everyone hated it either because Dr. Oz mentioned it and the cool thing to do on the forums at the time was hate everything Dr. Oz said or some of the people that tried it that watched Dr. Oz didn't like it bc they didn't get to sit on their couch and eat donuts and lose 20 lbs. like they thought haha. But I think its a great ingredient and I use it myself.

I'm not impressed personally with African Mango so I would pass on that one. But everyone's different.

Ab-Solved by Xtreme Performance Gels is another product that I really like and that gets great feedback.
 
thebigt

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African mango did nothing for me personally. I would look at thermoamp from Iconic. It’s non stim and works well. I personally take it 3 times a day instead of 2 and it helps a lot.
thermoamp works well for me also
 
thebigt

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iron legion invictus is another good one i would recommend...tons of info, feedback and reviews.
 

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I really wouldn’t add more pills to your stack. 20 mg yohimbine plus the alpha Y from Thermagize plus more stims is a lot! You hate dieting because your deficit is too extreme, potentially. If that deficit and that stack of stims isn’t causing measurable weight loss then something is grossly wrong with the diet/exercise tracking
 
sns8778

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I really wouldn’t add more pills to your stack. 20 mg yohimbine plus the alpha Y from Thermagize plus more stims is a lot! You hate dieting because your deficit is too extreme, potentially. If that deficit and that stack of stims isn’t causing measurable weight loss then something is grossly wrong with the diet/exercise tracking
I agree that he shouldn't add more stims but I think you misunderstood him. I don't think its that he's not seeing measurable weight loss; I think he's actually getting great results. I think he's just asking for suggestions for other options.

I can relate to what he's saying about hating dieting. I know for some like you were saying, that may be a sign the deficit is too extreme. But for me, nope, I'm with him - I hate dieting period. Haha.

My personal favorite cutting stack is Lean Edge + Thermagize XT + Ab-Solved + Reduce XT and I get great results from that stack. Fantastic results. But that doesn't make me hate dieting any less. The only thing that would make me hate dieting less is to never diet haha :ROFLMAO:😇
 
LeanEngineer

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iron legion invictus is another good one i would recommend...tons of info, feedback and reviews.
Agreed here. Can't go wrong with Invictus for stacking and great results!
 

Em3

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I really wouldn’t add more pills to your stack. 20 mg yohimbine plus the alpha Y from Thermagize plus more stims is a lot! You hate dieting because your deficit is too extreme, potentially. If that deficit and that stack of stims isn’t causing measurable weight loss then something is grossly wrong with the diet/exercise tracking
I mainly hate dieting because I enjoy eating WAY more than even most of us big eaters can imagine. I've set eating records at restraunts not even pushing past my normal hunger levels. When I leak bulk (250~ cal surplus) at about 3,600 calories I still feel like I'm dieting. Thats why I hate dislike it. So in a sense yes the deficit is extreme and part of why I hate it but even if an extra 500 calories per day would make maybe a marginal 5% difference in happiness and just delay the the reaching of my goal.

But I am indeed having success, but as with I'm sure many of us I/we always want to push ourselves if it is feasible. The stims are a moderate amount and I never begin dieting at max dosage, I work my way up and don't reach peak dosage till about 3-4 weeks and like to cap diets at 8-9 weeks. But the yohimbine it self I can't push it any higher than the 23mg per day or I get bad overall body feels.
 

Em3

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You have a great stack going.

I really like Lean Edge and think it would be a great addition to your stack. It does have 150 mg. Paradoxine and 50 mg. Capsimax in it so it would either give you higher dosing or allow you to bump your dose back slightly.

I think the Raspberry Ketones will be a good addition for you. It isn't popular here on AM but its a great ingredient and I think very underrated. Basically, everyone liked it and then Dr. Oz overhyped it and then everyone hated it either because Dr. Oz mentioned it and the cool thing to do on the forums at the time was hate everything Dr. Oz said or some of the people that tried it that watched Dr. Oz didn't like it bc they didn't get to sit on their couch and eat donuts and lose 20 lbs. like they thought haha. But I think its a great ingredient and I use it myself.

I'm not impressed personally with African Mango so I would pass on that one. But everyone's different.

Ab-Solved by Xtreme Performance Gels is another product that I really like and that gets great feedback.
Any recommendations on the Raspberry Ketone dosage and or timing of it? I've read people say higher doses are needed for it, 1-2g.

Since I dose fat burners twice daily I wonder if 2g dosed twice for a total of 4g daily is reasonable.

I also read a few instances of people using it almost like a GDA style supplement but instead of before heavy carb meals using it before a heavy fat meal to prevent fat gain. Still trying to find more on this scenario as well and a dosage for such occasion.
 
sns8778

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I mainly hate dieting because I enjoy eating WAY more than even most of us big eaters can imagine. I've set eating records at restraunts not even pushing past my normal hunger levels. When I leak bulk (250~ cal surplus) at about 3,600 calories I still feel like I'm dieting. Thats why I hate dislike it. So in a sense yes the deficit is extreme and part of why I hate it but even if an extra 500 calories per day would make maybe a marginal 5% difference in happiness and just delay the the reaching of my goal.

But I am indeed having success, but as with I'm sure many of us I/we always want to push ourselves if it is feasible. The stims are a moderate amount and I never begin dieting at max dosage, I work my way up and don't reach peak dosage till about 3-4 weeks and like to cap diets at 8-9 weeks. But the yohimbine it self I can't push it any higher than the 23mg per day or I get bad overall body feels.
Ha. You remind me of me. That's the same for me - I hate dieting because I love eating. And like you, I can eat ridiculous amounts without much effort.

Back in the days before I was allergic to gluten I won a pizza eating contest without even knowing I was going to enter and had just eaten a full lunch less than an hour before. And on another occasion won a rib eating contest and continued eating because I liked the ribs and ate until they made me stop haha :)
 
sns8778

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Any recommendations on the Raspberry Ketone dosage and or timing of it? I've read people say higher doses are needed for it, 1-2g.

Since I dose fat burners twice daily I wonder if 2g dosed twice for a total of 4g daily is reasonable.

I also read a few instances of people using it almost like a GDA style supplement but instead of before heavy carb meals using it before a heavy fat meal to prevent fat gain. Still trying to find more on this scenario as well and a dosage for such occasion.
I have read of people using it like a GDA style supplement but have never actually known anyone to and never done that myself.

The way I take it personally is 500 mg. 2 to 3 times per day.

Since you go with twice daily dosing, start out the first couple days at 500 mg. twice per day and then go to 1000 mg. twice per day. I've never dosed it at higher than 2 grams per day myself but you just gave me an idea and I might try going higher myself haha.
 
thebigt

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Agreed here. Can't go wrong with Invictus for stacking and great results!
when i was training for 7k race i wanted to cut around 7lbs to improve time. invictus, thermoamp, all out sweat and ultra hard took the weight off really fast-had to increase cals to keep from losing weight too fast. muscle toned was improved greatly as was vascularity.

as you can tell i am a fan of iconic formulations-i am a rep and get supps as rep compensation but also spend much of my own money buying iconic formulations products...i am not only a rep but huge fan of the products...by the way iron legion and iconic are under same umbrella....my code THEBIGT can be used at both sites to save 20% off.
 

Em3

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iron legion invictus is another good one i would recommend...tons of info, feedback and reviews.
Agreed here. Can't go wrong with Invictus for stacking and great results!
Wouldn't stacking Invictus be unneeded and/or possibly detrimental if I am already taking Reduce XT? It seems Invictus is a cortisol control type product already like Reduce XT.
 

Em3

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when i was training for 7k race i wanted to cut around 7lbs to improve time. invictus, thermoamp, all out sweat and ultra hard took the weight off really fast-had to increase cals to keep from losing weight too fast. muscle toned was improved greatly as was vascularity.

as you can tell i am a fan of iconic formulations-i am a rep and get supps as rep compensation but also spend much of my own money buying iconic formulations products...i am not only a rep but huge fan of the products...by the way iron legion and iconic are under same umbrella....my code THEBIGT can be used at both sites to save 20% off.
I'm actually currently looking into Thermoamp, or more specifically the Mitoburn ingredient as that seems to be the main selling point/ingredient of the product. Googling for literature/info on it. While the Paradoxine dose is small/not a huge value in my opinion given the ability to purchase SNS Paradoxine in a high dose/value, the Forskolin isn't a cheap ingredient and adds a nice value to the overall product.
 
sns8778

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Wouldn't stacking Invictus be unneeded and/or possibly detrimental if I am already taking Reduce XT? It seems Invictus is a cortisol control type product already like Reduce XT.
In my opinion, yes, that could be unneeded. That's why when I suggested Ab-Solved, I didn't suggest Suppress-C (same ingredient as Invictus). They are sold at great stack prices but I wouldn't suggest stacking it with Reduce XT.

You mentioned MitoBurn in another post so I wanted to let you know that we will have MitoBurn XT out soon which will be MitoBurn capsules and then we also have another fat loss product coming out that will be a formula with MitoBurn in it that will stack perfect with Lean Edge and Thermagize XT.
 

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In my opinion, yes, that could be unneeded. That's why when I suggested Ab-Solved, I didn't suggest Suppress-C (same ingredient as Invictus). They are sold at great stack prices but I wouldn't suggest stacking it with Reduce XT.

You mentioned MitoBurn in another post so I wanted to let you know that we will have MitoBurn XT out soon which will be MitoBurn capsules and then we also have another fat loss product coming out that will be a formula with MitoBurn in it that will stack perfect with Lean Edge and Thermagize XT.
I was actually about to reply to one of your messages saying I was looking up the Ab-solved product lol. I noticed it was some sort of topical product which I’ve never used before, only pills. I was trying to recall from memory about DHEA in which I though it was potentially something that could affect hormones. Though the product description says the version in it isn’t supposed to do so. Haven’t had enough time yet though to fully investigate it but I do like the ingredients in it don’t overlap anything I currently use.

The Mitoburn XT does sound amazing though. I ran across another brand I don’t know much of called Alpha Lion “Gains Candy” which had it as a stand alone. Obviously I prefer brands I am familiar with and SNS is that the top.

*edit* I actually haven’t seen you speak of the mitoburn xt before anywhere on the forum. Is there a discussion for it I may have missed?
 
thebigt

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I'm actually currently looking into Thermoamp, or more specifically the Mitoburn ingredient as that seems to be the main selling point/ingredient of the product. Googling for literature/info on it. While the Paradoxine dose is small/not a huge value in my opinion given the ability to purchase SNS Paradoxine in a high dose/value, the Forskolin isn't a cheap ingredient and adds a nice value to the overall product.
the amount of quality, well dosed ingredients in thermoamp makes it a bargain over buying individual ingredients and the ingredients in thermoamp are designed to have synergy...personally i've had great success with thermoamp....

code THEBIGT saves 20% at iconic formulations.
 
sns8778

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I was actually about to reply to one of your messages saying I was looking up the Ab-solved product lol. I noticed it was some sort of topical product which I’ve never used before, only pills. I was trying to recall from memory about DHEA in which I though it was potentially something that could affect hormones. Though the product description says the version in it isn’t supposed to do so. Haven’t had enough time yet though to fully investigate it but I do like the ingredients in it don’t overlap anything I currently use.

The Mitoburn XT does sound amazing though. I ran across another brand I don’t know much of called Alpha Lion “Gains Candy” which had it as a stand alone. Obviously I prefer brands I am familiar with and SNS is that the top.

*edit* I actually haven’t seen you speak of the mitoburn xt before anywhere on the forum. Is there a discussion for it I may have missed?
Ab-Solved is a great product and is very unique, even for topical products. Most topical products are systemic meaning that they use a td delivery system to help deliver the active ingredients through the skin into the blood stream for better absorption. In the case of Ab-Solved, it is localized, not systemic. (Now to be clear - its impossible for a product to be completely localized and not systemic at all; so with any localized product there will be some systemic effect, just minimized).

The type of DHEA in Ab-Solved is 7-OXO DHEA. 7-OXO DHEA is also known as 7-Keto DHEA and is very different than regular DHEA. You would not need to take anything with 7-OXO DHEA in it orally or systemically because you're taking Reduce XT, which in simple terms, is a very advanced or better version of it. BUT because Ab-Solved is localized, its makes it an awesome product to go with your stack because it targets visceral fat.

I'm copy and pasting this part from the Ab-Solved write up for anyone that doesn't understand Visceral Fat that may be following along or reading this in the future:
What is Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT)?

Visceral fat is the body fat stored around the abdominal area around the organs, under the abdominal muscles and is commonly referred to as the most unhealthy type of body-fat. It is both unsightly and unhealthy and is linked to inflammation and a large variety of other health issues including insulin resistance, metabolic syndromes, cardiovascular issues, and more.

Visceral fat is sometimes described as the ‘beer belly' appearance although that isn't a completely fair comparison. Although many people that do drink alcohol in excess tend to store fat in this area, many people that don't drink store it there as well and in many people it's the last stubborn are of fat that just doesn't seem to want to come off.


So, Ab-Solved compliments what you are using perfectly and it also targets a type of fat that other supplements don't typically target as much.

And thank you, I really appreciate your support. I really do.

I have mentioned that we were doing a Mitoburn stand alone but I may not have actually called it MitoBurn XT which will be the product name. I've mentioned it but haven't really discussed it in detail anywhere. It's in not the current production block but in the next one or two at the latest so I'd hope we'll have it out within the next 6 weeks.

The other product that we are doing with MitoBurn in it is a great formula and the formula is done. Ironically, the only thing holding us back is trying to figure out a name for it. With fat loss products, having a good name is super important and so many are taken; we haven't decided 100% on the product name but we hope to make that decision in the next couple days.
 

Em3

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Just a random note for others who may be using this thread to browse options as well. I went down a rabbit hole and ran into a product I've never seen called "Glaxon Thermal V2". Seems to have the Mitoburn in a hefty dose and also a patented GBB in a hefty dose as well plus 2 other ingredients that I need to research more but seem promising. I prefer capsules and this is a powdered product so that may interest some people. I love how powders are more versatile in their dosing but they seem inconvenient when needing to "dose on the go". Maybe invest in "dime bags" and dump your powder in it and take when ready? Just hope no cops get suspicious lol.
 
LeanEngineer

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Wouldn't stacking Invictus be unneeded and/or possibly detrimental if I am already taking Reduce XT? It seems Invictus is a cortisol control type product already like Reduce XT.
I agree. Reduce XT and Invictus both wouldn't be needed. One or the other can be used for cortisol control.
 
booneman77

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Wow it really looks like you have most every angle covered. I agree with Steve though, Lean Edge (non stim) would be the one thing that I personally would add (or swap as mentioned).

If you can do transdermals, those can definitely help with a bit more "targeted" fat loss too in those hard to lose areas (for me, love handles and lower abs are always the last to go and where I would use something topical)
 
sns8778

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Just a random note for others who may be using this thread to browse options as well. I went down a rabbit hole and ran into a product I've never seen called "Glaxon Thermal V2". Seems to have the Mitoburn in a hefty dose and also a patented GBB in a hefty dose as well plus 2 other ingredients that I need to research more but seem promising. I prefer capsules and this is a powdered product so that may interest some people. I love how powders are more versatile in their dosing but they seem inconvenient when needing to "dose on the go". Maybe invest in "dime bags" and dump your powder in it and take when ready? Just hope no cops get suspicious lol.
We have been considering doing a power fat burner ourselves where we would basically take Lean Edge and add a few more ingredients to it that capsule constraints really don't allow for. Besides MitoBurn being in there, I'm really not very impressed with their formula but they do have great marketing.

I wanted to explain one thing about the GBB that's in there in that its more trademarked than patented. GBB is not a hard ingredient to make and it is what it is, so there is no special process or anything needed. So in the case of LeanGBB, ProGBB, or there are several others, they are just putting a trademark catchy name to theirs for branding purposes. It's not that theirs is any better than others, its just for marketing and branding. There's nothing at all wrong with that, I just wanted to explain it for anyone reading that didn't know that.
 

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I wanted to explain one thing about the GBB that's in there in that its more trademarked than patented. GBB is not a hard ingredient to make and it is what it is, so there is no special process or anything needed. So in the case of LeanGBB, ProGBB, or there are several others, they are just putting a trademark catchy name to theirs for branding purposes. It's not that theirs is any better than others, its just for marketing and branding. There's nothing at all wrong with that, I just wanted to explain it for anyone reading that didn't know that.
Count me as one of those you have now educated, I thought the trademarked ones had some sort of different process.
 
sns8778

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Count me as one of those you have now educated, I thought the trademarked ones had some sort of different process.
No worries at all. It's a big misconception in the industry. In cases like that, its more about them trying to build their own 'brand' than it being about anything different.

Here's a good example - we are going to be doing a HICA product. We will be using Cornerstone HICA which is a branded version (similar to LeanGBB, ProGBB, etc.). There's nothing special about Cornerstone HICA compared to any other 98%+ HICA; the only real advantage in this case is that HICA raws do have some quality variances with them so going with Cornerstone HICA just reassures we're getting good quality. But in the case of GBB, there are really no quality issues anyway that I've ever seen. So there's nothing wrong with PeoGBB, LeanGBB, etc. but they just aren't any better than their non branded counterparts if the quality is the same.
 

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I just wanted to update this for those that may read in the future what I decided to do.

I of course added in the Raspberry Ketones.

I ended up ordering two tubs of Glaxon Thermal V2 because I found what I determined to be a good value/deal. Got two tubs for $48 shipped. I wanted to add in the Mitoburn and this gave me 42 servings total of 500mg or 84 servings of 250. It also included a reasonable amounnt of GBB which I am a fan of and included an ingredient I was intrigued by called Innoslim. I was use the Glaxon for the time being and there is a high probability of either switching to SNS' upcoming Mitoburn standalone or their new fat burner including Mitoburn based on the product's formula.

I also ordered for myself and my fiance a bottle to share of the XPG Ab-solved. I've never used a transdermal before and intrigued to try it out.

Both of these products seem to have ingredients not already in my super potent "stack". I it will be hard to notice the effects of these products added in to my stack by themselves by my fiance will be "guinea pig-ing" them solo. On my next diet I might spend some time testing them soloo as well.

One other product I was highly considering but I already have too much stuff is Evomuse's Epitome. Hunger spikes are REAL when you get lean and this seemed as something that may have balance that out along with many other helpful effects.
 
sns8778

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I just wanted to update this for those that may read in the future what I decided to do.

I of course added in the Raspberry Ketones.

I ended up ordering two tubs of Glaxon Thermal V2 because I found what I determined to be a good value/deal. Got two tubs for $48 shipped. I wanted to add in the Mitoburn and this gave me 42 servings total of 500mg or 84 servings of 250. It also included a reasonable amounnt of GBB which I am a fan of and included an ingredient I was intrigued by called Innoslim. I was use the Glaxon for the time being and there is a high probability of either switching to SNS' upcoming Mitoburn standalone or their new fat burner including Mitoburn based on the product's formula.

I also ordered for myself and my fiance a bottle to share of the XPG Ab-solved. I've never used a transdermal before and intrigued to try it out.

Both of these products seem to have ingredients not already in my super potent "stack". I it will be hard to notice the effects of these products added in to my stack by themselves by my fiance will be "guinea pig-ing" them solo. On my next diet I might spend some time testing them soloo as well.

One other product I was highly considering but I already have too much stuff is Evomuse's Epitome. Hunger spikes are REAL when you get lean and this seemed as something that may have balance that out along with many other helpful effects.
I get a good amount of appetite control myself from Lean Edge and Raspberry Ketones also work great for appetite control for me.

I think and hope that you and her both will be very pleased with Ab-Solved.
 
Whisky

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Sorry to be the boring cnut who doesn’t talk about extra supps but your calorie deficit is way way too high (even if you were on a load of tren it would be too high).

the body can only lose fat at a certain rate. You’ll just be losing muscle at this point bro 🤷 plus your metabolism will be slowing down so that deficit won’t be a deficit by the end but you’ll be stuck on poverty calories just to avoid fat regain.

the aim of any cut is to lose fat at the optimal rate whilst eating as many calories as possible. Very few supps actually assist in losing fat other than by increasing your calorie burn (clen is the best example of this). Hgh will activity make fat more readily available to be used but most other stuff (whilst legit and good) simply helps create the deficit needed.

just wanted to highlight it for future reference as that deficit is not needed and will most likely cause you issues when you finish 🤷
 

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Sorry to be the boring cnut who doesn’t talk about extra supps but your calorie deficit is way way too high (even if you were on a load of tren it would be too high).

the body can only lose fat at a certain rate. You’ll just be losing muscle at this point bro 🤷 plus your metabolism will be slowing down so that deficit won’t be a deficit by the end but you’ll be stuck on poverty calories just to avoid fat regain.

the aim of any cut is to lose fat at the optimal rate whilst eating as many calories as possible. Very few supps actually assist in losing fat other than by increasing your calorie burn (clen is the best example of this). Hgh will activity make fat more readily available to be used but most other stuff (whilst legit and good) simply helps create the deficit needed.

just wanted to highlight it for future reference as that deficit is not needed and will most likely cause you issues when you finish 🤷
Not to necesarilly disagree or say you are wrong, because I personally do not know nor have proof of what I'm about to say but only theorizing and hoping to engage and gain knowledge.

Do we/is there actually any scientific proof, studies, and/or theories showing that losing X amount of "weight" in a given time frame versus loses a lesser "weight" in the same time frame causes more muscle loss? One issue I've always believed was that most people that employ a large caloric deficit meet that deficit thru too much high intensity cardio, in which to my knowledge has been shown to risk using a greater % of muscle for energy rather than fat.

I try to my best to optimize my weight loss regimen by still maximizing MPS thru protein dosing every 4 hours and still maintaining a high (210~g) protein diet while still getting adequate fats. I also do, while very time consuming, a lot of Low Intensity exercise such as walking outdoors and incorporate a little bit of "moderate/light" intensity with weight lifting and elliptical use at the gym. I of course like to supplement with a 3g HMB & 25mg Forskolin dose preworkout.

I feel as though maybe I should of made a new thread for this post as it is something I've indeed been curious about. Whether or not we truely lose that much more of muscle when dieting when following high calorie deficits when optimized for muscle preservation.
 
thebigt

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Not to necesarilly disagree or say you are wrong, because I personally do not know nor have proof of what I'm about to say but only theorizing and hoping to engage and gain knowledge.

Do we/is there actually any scientific proof, studies, and/or theories showing that losing X amount of "weight" in a given time frame versus loses a lesser "weight" in the same time frame causes more muscle loss? One issue I've always believed was that most people that employ a large caloric deficit meet that deficit thru too much high intensity cardio, in which to my knowledge has been shown to risk using a greater % of muscle for energy rather than fat.

I try to my best to optimize my weight loss regimen by still maximizing MPS thru protein dosing every 4 hours and still maintaining a high (210~g) protein diet while still getting adequate fats. I also do, while very time consuming, a lot of Low Intensity exercise such as walking outdoors and incorporate a little bit of "moderate/light" intensity with weight lifting and elliptical use at the gym. I of course like to supplement with a 3g HMB & 25mg Forskolin dose preworkout.

I feel as though maybe I should of made a new thread for this post as it is something I've indeed been curious about. Whether or not we truely lose that much more of muscle when dieting when following high calorie deficits when optimized for muscle preservation.
i've got nothing to add after reading this post other than---GOOD LUCK
 
Whisky

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Not to necesarilly disagree or say you are wrong, because I personally do not know nor have proof of what I'm about to say but only theorizing and hoping to engage and gain knowledge.

Do we/is there actually any scientific proof, studies, and/or theories showing that losing X amount of "weight" in a given time frame versus loses a lesser "weight" in the same time frame causes more muscle loss? One issue I've always believed was that most people that employ a large caloric deficit meet that deficit thru too much high intensity cardio, in which to my knowledge has been shown to risk using a greater % of muscle for energy rather than fat.

I try to my best to optimize my weight loss regimen by still maximizing MPS thru protein dosing every 4 hours and still maintaining a high (210~g) protein diet while still getting adequate fats. I also do, while very time consuming, a lot of Low Intensity exercise such as walking outdoors and incorporate a little bit of "moderate/light" intensity with weight lifting and elliptical use at the gym. I of course like to supplement with a 3g HMB & 25mg Forskolin dose preworkout.

I feel as though maybe I should of made a new thread for this post as it is something I've indeed been curious about. Whether or not we truely lose that much more of muscle when dieting when following high calorie deficits when optimized for muscle preservation.
i mean for the ultimate in large calorie deficits you can look at POW’s…..none of them poor guys came out maintaining muscle.

I can personally tell you it happens from my own experience as well.

and you’ll find countless studies etc supporting the fact that a large deficit like yours leaves the body with no choice but to utilise muscle (with that deficit glycogen is obviously gone quick). Remember, the rate limiting factor is the bodies ability to mobilise fat for useage (why hgh has such good fat loss results). It’s also the reason those who advocate a keto diet for fat loss gain traction (because keto aids the body in becoming more efficient in mobilising stored fat)

So when you can only mobilise a certain amount of fat but your body needs more fuel and glycogen is long gone there isn’t any other option.

regarding your exercise regime I do agree that LISS is preferable in this scenario as it doesn’t create such a big demand for fuel (which could only be met through glycogen or muscle) but in the grand scheme of things we know that BMR accounts for over half your calorie expenditure and is nothing to do with exercise so regardless of how optimal your training regime is you simply won’t overcome the fuel demands your body has to simply exist.

literally the only way to feasibly come close to maintaining muscle with that deficit (and I still don’t think you would) is running a cycle including something like tren. That would minimise the muscle loss (hence why those of us that use anabolics always do so on a cut, and we still don’t run a deficit as high as you) 🤷
 

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i mean for the ultimate in large calorie deficits you can look at POW’s…..none of them poor guys came out maintaining muscle.

I can personally tell you it happens from my own experience as well.

and you’ll find countless studies etc supporting the fact that a large deficit like yours leaves the body with no choice but to utilise muscle (with that deficit glycogen is obviously gone quick). Remember, the rate limiting factor is the bodies ability to mobilise fat for useage (why hgh has such good fat loss results). It’s also the reason those who advocate a keto diet for fat loss gain traction (because keto aids the body in becoming more efficient in mobilising stored fat)

So when you can only mobilise a certain amount of fat but your body needs more fuel and glycogen is long gone there isn’t any other option.

regarding your exercise regime I do agree that LISS is preferable in this scenario as it doesn’t create such a big demand for fuel (which could only be met through glycogen or muscle) but in the grand scheme of things we know that BMR accounts for over half your calorie expenditure and is nothing to do with exercise so regardless of how optimal your training regime is you simply won’t overcome the fuel demands your body has to simply exist.

literally the only way to feasibly come close to maintaining muscle with that deficit (and I still don’t think you would) is running a cycle including something like tren. That would minimise the muscle loss (hence why those of us that use anabolics always do so on a cut, and we still don’t run a deficit as high as you) 🤷
Thank you for your input on the subject.

I will try and search for some studies to try and make a more informed decision next cut and reconsider upping calories if it will help. I do not take anything "un-natural"(trt, steroids, prohormones, sarms, etc) so sadly the options that would help aren't in what I feel comfortable doing.
 
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Thank you for your input on the subject.

I will try and search for some studies to try and make a more informed decision next cut and reconsider upping calories if it will help. I do not take anything "un-natural"(trt, steroids, prohormones, sarms, etc) so sadly the options that would help aren't in what I feel comfortable doing.
no problem at all, years of getting it wrong before I started to get it somewhat right help 😂

and please don’t think I was suggesting you take anabolics by the way, I was just using that to make the point that even with the most extreme of measures it would still probably not be enough to prevent muscle loss. If you can achieve your personal goals naturally then 100% that is the right move. There are a lot of downsides to anabolics.
 
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Not to necesarilly disagree or say you are wrong, because I personally do not know nor have proof of what I'm about to say but only theorizing and hoping to engage and gain knowledge.

Do we/is there actually any scientific proof, studies, and/or theories showing that losing X amount of "weight" in a given time frame versus loses a lesser "weight" in the same time frame causes more muscle loss? One issue I've always believed was that most people that employ a large caloric deficit meet that deficit thru too much high intensity cardio, in which to my knowledge has been shown to risk using a greater % of muscle for energy rather than fat.

I try to my best to optimize my weight loss regimen by still maximizing MPS thru protein dosing every 4 hours and still maintaining a high (210~g) protein diet while still getting adequate fats. I also do, while very time consuming, a lot of Low Intensity exercise such as walking outdoors and incorporate a little bit of "moderate/light" intensity with weight lifting and elliptical use at the gym. I of course like to supplement with a 3g HMB & 25mg Forskolin dose preworkout.

I feel as though maybe I should of made a new thread for this post as it is something I've indeed been curious about. Whether or not we truely lose that much more of muscle when dieting when following high calorie deficits when optimized for muscle preservation.
I am a big believer in that different things and diets work different for different people and its about finding what's right for you. I think a lot of times when discussing dieting and dieting strategies that people get so caught up in what they think or what they believe or what works best for them that they lose sight of that just because something works best for them or most people that they know doesn't mean it will work best for you. And I think that one of the worst mistakes people make is letting others tell them that something shouldn't be working and to change it; because to me, if its working, don't change it. Maybe optimize it or tweak it, but don't change something you respond well to because others think it shouldn't be working.

I for one have always had a lot of success with maintaining muscle while dieting by as you said, optimizing my diet for muscle preservation. I think the key though is for people to realize and respect that that may mean different things to different people. And also like you, I HATE dieting so when I do, I try to do it right for me do it and get it done and over with as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm not saying that's right for others, but it works for me and from what you've said, it works for you as well. I think its very individualized and what works best for one person may not work best for the other. And I've never used Tren or any other AAS to do so.

One reason I don't comment a lot on dieting is because some of the most popular things that people often say to do don't work well for me at all. In fact, a lot of them work completely opposite for me. Fasting = feel like crap, brain fog, decreased strength, autoimmune flareups more common, etc. Keto = feel like walking death, brain fog; and yes, I've waited it out and I don't adapt haha. BUT you'll notice I never tell people these things aren't good, they just don't work for me. But also, there are things that do work for me that greatly accelerate my fat loss that I would never tell anyone else to do because a lot of it I've learned through trial and error and I know it works for me but have no idea if it would work for you or anyone else. So that's why when people ask me about my diet, I just normally avoid the question bc I'm not going to get into a science debate about what works or doesn't work for me when all I care about when it comes to my dieting is that it works for me haha.

There's a couple people on here that I have discussed my diet with that if they read this are probably laughing bc of some of the things that do work for me because some of it is so far out of the norm and a lot has been learned by accident over the years. Some of the best things I've ever learned about dieting strategies for me have actually came when I cheated on my diet or screwed up on it and then my body reacted in a certain way and I experimented with little tweaks to it the next go round.

Another great example of this is one of my best friends is 56 years old and has a physique that most people would kill for and he has never touched a steroid, prohormone, etc. He's 6'1 and 235 when he leans down for summer on average. People think he competes when they see him and he never has and has never had any interest in doing so. But all the time people ask him how he trains and how he eats and he always tells them that instead of asking him, they need to learn how they need to eat and how they need to train to work best for him. For example, he takes so long between sets that it would be useless for me to even train and doesn't train that heavy yet has endurance forever for no logical reason. And for diet, you'd think he'd count every calorie he took in when he doesn't count calories at all. His diet is 6 meals a day - a serving of protein and complex carbs at each of the first 4 meals and not at the last 2 when dieting; and when not dieting adds in complex carbs to each meal and a pint of ice cream before bedtime :ROFLMAO:
(When people ask him about steroids, he always replies that he's all natural and it must be the ice cream haha)
 

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I am a big believer in that different things and diets work different for different people and its about finding what's right for you. I think a lot of times when discussing dieting and dieting strategies that people get so caught up in what they think or what they believe or what works best for them that they lose sight of that just because something works best for them or most people that they know doesn't mean it will work best for you. And I think that one of the worst mistakes people make is letting others tell them that something shouldn't be working and to change it; because to me, if its working, don't change it. Maybe optimize it or tweak it, but don't change something you respond well to because others think it shouldn't be working.

I for one have always had a lot of success with maintaining muscle while dieting by as you said, optimizing my diet for muscle preservation. I think the key though is for people to realize and respect that that may mean different things to different people. And also like you, I HATE dieting so when I do, I try to do it right for me do it and get it done and over with as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm not saying that's right for others, but it works for me and from what you've said, it works for you as well. I think its very individualized and what works best for one person may not work best for the other. And I've never used Tren or any other AAS to do so.

One reason I don't comment a lot on dieting is because some of the most popular things that people often say to do don't work well for me at all. In fact, a lot of them work completely opposite for me. Fasting = feel like crap, brain fog, decreased strength, autoimmune flareups more common, etc. Keto = feel like walking death, brain fog; and yes, I've waited it out and I don't adapt haha. BUT you'll notice I never tell people these things aren't good, they just don't work for me. But also, there are things that do work for me that greatly accelerate my fat loss that I would never tell anyone else to do because a lot of it I've learned through trial and error and I know it works for me but have no idea if it would work for you or anyone else. So that's why when people ask me about my diet, I just normally avoid the question bc I'm not going to get into a science debate about what works or doesn't work for me when all I care about when it comes to my dieting is that it works for me haha.

There's a couple people on here that I have discussed my diet with that if they read this are probably laughing bc of some of the things that do work for me because some of it is so far out of the norm and a lot has been learned by accident over the years. Some of the best things I've ever learned about dieting strategies for me have actually came when I cheated on my diet or screwed up on it and then my body reacted in a certain way and I experimented with little tweaks to it the next go round.

Another great example of this is one of my best friends is 56 years old and has a physique that most people would kill for and he has never touched a steroid, prohormone, etc. He's 6'1 and 235 when he leans down for summer on average. People think he competes when they see him and he never has and has never had any interest in doing so. But all the time people ask him how he trains and how he eats and he always tells them that instead of asking him, they need to learn how they need to eat and how they need to train to work best for him. For example, he takes so long between sets that it would be useless for me to even train and doesn't train that heavy yet has endurance forever for no logical reason. And for diet, you'd think he'd count every calorie he took in when he doesn't count calories at all. His diet is 6 meals a day - a serving of protein and complex carbs at each of the first 4 meals and not at the last 2 when dieting; and when not dieting adds in complex carbs to each meal and a pint of ice cream before bedtime :ROFLMAO:
(When people ask him about steroids, he always replies that he's all natural and it must be the ice cream haha)
pic of this guy?
 
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pic of this guy?
I can't do that to him haha. He doesn't even have social media. That's part of what makes it so funny with him is you would think he would stay up to date on all the different diets and training routines and he absolutely doesn't, just does his own thing that he knows works for him. I've got a decent metabolism myself but if I ate like he does, I'd be getting ready for sumo within a year haha
 
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It's in the Glaxon Thermal V2 powder I ordered that should be arriving today. SNS' has a standalone coming in the future and also part of a new fat burner.
Thank you. And you are absolutely correct, we have MitoBurn XT due out soon and a fat burner containing it if I can ever figure out a dang name for it haha.
 
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ThermoShred XT
That is a great name suggestion but unfortunately the name ThermoShred is taken by an Amazon brand/product that I'd never heard of before I had searched the name and the formula is one that I would not want anyone to confuse with us and think we would do a formula like that lol.
 
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That is a great name suggestion but unfortunately the name ThermoShred is taken by an Amazon brand/product that I'd never heard of before I had searched the name and the formula is one that I would not want anyone to confuse with us and think we would do a formula like that lol.
This calls for a naming contest :)
 
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That is a great name suggestion but unfortunately the name ThermoShred is taken by an Amazon brand/product that I'd never heard of before I had searched the name and the formula is one that I would not want anyone to confuse with us and think we would do a formula like that lol.
ThermoSpark ?
 
Cheeky Monkey

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Too many Thermos out there. We need some unique name....

HellFire XT
 
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