What addition have you added (Anabolic) without issues?

[bell1986]

Hey folks.

I'm 37 and am past the stage of just hammering any sort of compounds. I'm currently on trt and this is ideal in terms of maintaining my muscle mass.

I wanted to add something in to add some mass. I don't want anything that's too harsh. Hopefully also side effect or minimally side effect free.

Any suggestions?

I do have a few SARMS sitting but never really played around with them.

What else has people played with and got decent results without too much issues?

Thanks

 

[EpiStrong]

Primo var test seems the safe route... headed there muself.

 

[bell1986]

Primo var test seems the safe route... headed there muself.

You run Primo yet?

Any sides and or hair loss?

I'm prone to balding and the primo gives me the fear lol

 

[Uncle_E]

Primo var test seems the safe route... headed there muself.

I’d agree with all of that. But if you’ve never used anything other than TRT, you don’t necessarily need to jump right into the deep end. If you jump right into an intermediate level cycle, you’ll find mild ones underwhelming. If you have sarms on hand, run them for 6-8 weeks with a dialed work out and diet and see how they treat you. I’d say try LGD or RAD-140 while you continue to research the next steps. If you get any sides like hair shredding just drop it immediately.

 

[Smont]

If you can handling pinning very often I highly suggest 500mg of INJECTABLE l-carnitine 5-7x week or even in smaller doses in specific situations. Low risk and high reward. Increased fat loss and longer time to fatigue, better insulin sensitivity and better pumps, makes you more responsive to other gear (or so they say) but the evidence is pretty solid and the first hand experiences are very solid!

 

[Stacks1]

I try to avoid this section as to not remind myself of my age.... but anyways here I am.

I think there are a variety of different options out there. I think the key to avoid the "harsh" sides is really in the dose and whether or not you're stacking too many different compounds. Some people couldn't care less about the sides and just run as much gear as possible. I always approach it with the mindset of how much do I need for gains but simultaneously limit as many sides as possible.

 

[CTB4444]

If you can handling pinning very often I highly suggest 500mg of INJECTABLE l-carnitine 5-7x week or even in smaller doses in specific situations. Low risk and high reward. Increased fat loss and longer time to fatigue, better insulin sensitivity and better pumps, makes you more responsive to other gear (or so they say) but the evidence is pretty solid and the first hand experiences are very solid!

What's your routine with the l-carnitine? Theres so much info out there and it gets confusing. Do you take the shot after you eat fast acting carbs or just anytime of day?

 

[bell1986]

If you can handling pinning very often I highly suggest 500mg of INJECTABLE l-carnitine 5-7x week or even in smaller doses in specific situations. Low risk and high reward. Increased fat loss and longer time to fatigue, better insulin sensitivity and better pumps, makes you more responsive to other gear (or so they say) but the evidence is pretty solid and the first hand experiences are very solid!

I pin twice a week so pinning is zero issues for me. I've pinned 4 times a week before (Was trying to see what my shbg and estrogen would do with more pinning)

I have seen injectable carnitine on a site. I've heard it stings like a beeetch?

I've took oral carnitine prior due to the androgen receptor sensitivity studies. I will be honest and saw no benefits. I think I was taking around 2 grams.

What you currently running?

We're never happy eh? Lol. I'm 37 now and the last 3 years I've seen myself age pretty quick. I work in the sun a lot and I'm sure this isn't helping my face. Nice tan but taking its toll on my skin. I do use tretonoin though which has worked a treat.

 

[bell1986]

I try to avoid this section as to not remind myself of my age.... but anyways here I am.

I think there are a variety of different options out there. I think the key to avoid the "harsh" sides is really in the dose and whether or not you're stacking too many different compounds. Some people couldn't care less about the sides and just run as much gear as possible. I always approach it with the mindset of how much do I need for gains but simultaneously limit as many sides as possible.

What age are you?

I would be lying if I said that age didn't bother me I use to go on holiday a lot and I use to be able to pull fairly easily or would get comments. After 35 I noticed that I got no pulls or I had to work for it. I mind chatting to a chick one night and she was chatting away happily and i thought. Jackpot. She says. What age are you? I says 35. After that her tone completely changed. She eventually slipped away and that was that. Honestly that hurt!

So age sucks. If I get asked on holiday now I knock a few years off


I can't change my age or my 'looks' in terms of my face. Age wise that is. I can improve my body though. I would say I'm in good shape. I don't gain muscle easily. I have to really hammer my muscles and then eat 4000 calories a day to try and gain. Trt was a god send though and has made gaining a little easier. Not drastic but better.

I might just try the LGD I have. Will run a low dose and see how I feel. With me getting older I've noticed that I really don't tolerate supplements as well as my 20's. Even if I take rhodiola rosea I get some anxiety? Drives me crazy.

What you running?

 

[Smont]

I pin twice a week so pinning is zero issues for me. I've pinned 4 times a week before (Was trying to see what my shbg and estrogen would do with more pinning)

I have seen injectable carnitine on a site. I've heard it stings like a beeetch?

I've took oral carnitine prior due to the androgen receptor sensitivity studies. I will be honest and saw no benefits. I think I was taking around 2 grams.

What you currently running?

We're never happy eh? Lol. I'm 37 now and the last 3 years I've seen myself age pretty quick. I work in the sun a lot and I'm sure this isn't helping my face. Nice tan but taking its toll on my skin. I do use tretonoin though which has worked a treat.

I'm currently running trt and carnatine, I can't use gear for the next few (maybe up to 6 more months) because of moral reasons and I have to downsize 40lbs which is impossible on steroids lol.

Carnitine I use on and off year round, oral carnatine compared to injectable carnatine is like comparing a grain of sand to a boulder

 

[Stacks1]

What age are you?

I would be lying if I said that age didn't bother me I use to go on holiday a lot and I use to be able to pull fairly easily or would get comments. After 35 I noticed that I got no pulls or I had to work for it. I mind chatting to a chick one night and she was chatting away happily and i thought. Jackpot. She says. What age are you? I says 35. After that her tone completely changed. She eventually slipped away and that was that. Honestly that hurt!

So age sucks. If I get asked on holiday now I knock a few years off


I can't change my age or my 'looks' in terms of my face. Age wise that is. I can improve my body though. I would say I'm in good shape. I don't gain muscle easily. I have to really hammer my muscles and then eat 4000 calories a day to try and gain. Trt was a god send though and has made gaining a little easier. Not drastic but better.

I might just try the LGD I have. Will run a low dose and see how I feel. With me getting older I've noticed that I really don't tolerate supplements as well as my 20's. Even if I take rhodiola rosea I get some anxiety? Drives me crazy.

What you running?

Let's just say I'm the same generation as you lol. I haven't committed to the TRT route though. My test is in the 700s and I personally just don't feel a need for it right now. I am sure that day will come but I am not rushing it right now. I continue to do 2 small cycles per year and PCT. I've done a variety of different things. Most commonly I would run test for 12 weeks and just finish it with an oral. Or sometimes I won't run test and just run TD 4-andro for 6 - 9 weeks with an oral. To be honest, I want to finish up what I have stashed away and then try to make a push towards going natural (yeah... I know... heard that before). Problem is, I have so much stashed away lol. But I am no hardcore user. I don't compete so there is less motivation to look at hardcore cycles. No interest in jumping on tren or anything like that. I'm done with deca too. I might run EQ again... I don't know. Always said I would try primo but never have.

You can give primo or EQ a shot. If you're open to running an oral maybe anavar or tbol should do the trick. Tbol might be good as I find it has very few sides for an oral and I feel great on it.

 

[Stacks1]

I'm currently running trt and carnatine, I can't use gear for the next few (maybe up to 6 more months) because of moral reasons and I have to downsize 40lbs which is impossible on steroids lol.

Carnitine I use on and off year round, oral carnatine compared to injectable carnatine is like comparing a grain of sand to a boulder

Moral reasons? If you don't mind me asking, is it related to competing in some kind of sports event and doing it naturally or something else?

 

[Smont]

Moral reasons? If you don't mind me asking, is it related to competing in some kind of sports event and doing it naturally or something else?

Couple boxing matches @178lbs. It's actually not drug tested but it's still not legal to use ped's

So the fact I was 218 and not terribly fat or outvof shape at one point earlier this yearand needed to cut 40lbs and the guys I'm fighting are probably not on steroids outside of trt I figured I'm taking a break from gear

 

[Smont]

And hopefully I explode when I hop back on lol

 

[EpiStrong]

You run Primo yet?

Any sides and or hair loss?

I'm prone to balding and the primo gives me the fear lol

No sir won't run primo for a few months, still on the mast portion of the experiment. I do not think any other site will recommend sarms as steps toward healthier cycling, but just my opinion.

 

[Smont]

No sir won't run primo for a few months, still on the mast portion of the experiment. I do not think any other site will recommend sarms as steps toward healthier cycling, but just my opinion.

Here's the problem with the 700 threads like this, there is no healthier way to cycle without having bloodwork done on everything you take. Some guys run primo and there hair falls out snd cholesterol goes through the roof and bloodwork is trashed, others get zero sides. If I ran anadrol and anavar back to back at 50mg someone might say the var is the healthier option. And the answer is Maybe, maybe not. Bloodwork will give the real answer.

Nobody else's personal experience with a drug is universal, we all kinda know which ones should be lower risks, now all each individual person needs to do is get bloodwork and take note

 

[Stacks1]

Couple boxing matches @178lbs. It's actually not drug tested but it's still not legal to use ped's

So the fact I was 218 and not terribly fat or outvof shape at one point earlier this yearand needed to cut 40lbs and the guys I'm fighting are probably not on steroids outside of trt I figured I'm taking a break from gear

Do you feel anabolics help in boxing since there are weight classes? I would think that someone walking around naturally at 218 lbs would have a better chance at beating someone who is enhanced at 218 lbs. I always felt like sports with weight classes are built around maximizing your natural potential because once you step up in weight unnaturally, you're at a disadvantage compared to the guys at that weight who are natural. I could be wrong though.

 

[EpiStrong]

Here's the problem with the 700 threads like this, there is no healthier way to cycle without having bloodwork done on everything you take. Some guys run primo and there hair falls out snd cholesterol goes through the roof and bloodwork is trashed, others get zero sides. If I ran anadrol and anavar back to back at 50mg someone might say the var is the healthier option. And the answer is Maybe, maybe not. Bloodwork will give the real answer.

Nobody else's personal experience with a drug is universal, we all kinda know which ones should be lower risks, now all each individual person needs to do is get bloodwork and take note

I agree on bloodwork but general consensus is a decent way to first gauge harm reduction. Of the 700 threads I'd bet 90 plus percent will have the trio of var primo and test, 100 percent have test of course. Only reason I'm leaning that way is because it's been mentioned in the plus age forums I'm part of as the usual stuff older guys will only run after being in the game a bit, but true bloodwork is very important. I may be an outlier in the end.

 

[Smont]

Do you feel anabolics help in boxing since there are weight classes? I would think that someone walking around naturally at 218 lbs would have a better chance at beating someone who is enhanced at 218 lbs. I always felt like sports with weight classes are built around maximizing your natural potential because once you step up in weight unnaturally, you're at a disadvantage compared to the guys at that weight who are natural. I could be wrong though.

I feel like steroids above maybe 300 test have been 100% counter productive in boxing because I used steroids over the years to build muscle, it hinders my mobility, it hinders my endurance, you can't train boxing and conditioning for 2 hours carrying 30+lbs over yiur natty weight

Your comparison in the enhanced 218 vs natty 218 is WWAAAAAYYYYY to vague. Take a heavyweight that's 265 and put him on test, Mast and whatever else and by the time he gets to 218 he's going to destroy the natural 218.

But I'm naturally about 170lbs, me on steroids at 218 is counter productive. If it was an advantage I'd just fight heavyweight which is completely foolish for me.

Now once I'm down to 180lbs or so if I used some dhts alongside my trt it would give me a massive advantage over the 178 natty if all other skills were equal

 

[Stacks1]

Your comparison in the enhanced 218 vs natty 218 is WWAAAAAYYYYY to vague. Take a heavyweight that's 265 and put him on test, Mast and whatever else and by the time he gets to 218 he's going to destroy the natural 218.

But I'm naturally about 170lbs, me on steroids at 218 is counter productive. If it was an advantage I'd just fight heavyweight which is completely foolish for me.

My comparison was to the bold part. Essentially, if you take 2 people and one is at his peak at 218 naturally, I would think they would fair better than someone who is only a 218lbs heavyweight because they are on PEDs and is really only 170 naturally. I would put my money on the guy who walks around 218lbs naturally rather than the guy who walks around at 218lbs because he is enhanced.

If you're adding size via PEDs, then you're putting yourself in a higher weight class where you put yourself at disadvantages against the natural guys at that weight class - height, speed/mobility, etc. Those are huge in boxing.

 

[bell1986]

Just ordered some tbol. I read it's very mild and usually causes no issues. The growth will be small but I will just see how my body responds.

Anyone else run tbol and had any success?

 

[Stacks1]

Just ordered some tbol. I read it's very mild and usually causes no issues. The growth will be small but I will just see how my body responds.

Anyone else run tbol and had any success?

Yeah tbol is a good mild one. I feel great on it, good performance in the gym, definitely a good choice for what you're looking for.

 

[Uncle_E]

Just ordered some tbol. I read it's very mild and usually causes no issues. The growth will be small but I will just see how my body responds.

Anyone else run tbol and had any success?

Yes, tbol was nice to me and I’ll use it again. Mild gains of quality lean tissue and minimal sides. I like tbol for an oral and primo as an oil because they are frequently used by athletes for lean tissue gains. I’m not interested in blowing up to look huge and juicy just to roll back.

 

[bell1986]

Yeah tbol is a good mild one. I feel great on it, good performance in the gym, definitely a good choice for what you're looking for.

Took 20mg yesterday. I just started with 10mg and waited a couple hours just to see if any anxiety etc started. An hour later I felt a slight mood boost. I dropped another 10mg and I'm gonna run this dose for a week and then bump it to 30mg. I will see just what effects it has.

One thing about tbol is. That libido boost is almost uncomfortable lol. I've been on trt for years and never felt a libido boost like this. Not even proviron had this effect.

It feels a very nice compound tbh. Whenever I use a dht base I always feel a slight irritability. I actually hate dht compounds. Soon as I take them I just watch my hair all fall out.

I will wait a few weeks and do some bloodwork and see what the tbol is doing.

 

[bell1986]

Yes, tbol was nice to me and I’ll use it again. Mild gains of quality lean tissue and minimal sides. I like tbol for an oral and primo as an oil because they are frequently used by athletes for lean tissue gains. I’m not interested in blowing up to look huge and juicy just to roll back.

This is very true. If you use compounds that just blow you up you then feel depressed once all that weight starts to fall off. Your better with slow steady gains that stay. Dbol is notorious for that quick swelling but honestly every gram of weight falls off once you drop the dbol. Also. Those estrogen sides on dbol are horrendous. No A.I can keep up with that estrogen conversion.

 

[Stacks1]

Took 20mg yesterday. I just started with 10mg and waited a couple hours just to see if any anxiety etc started. An hour later I felt a slight mood boost. I dropped another 10mg and I'm gonna run this dose for a week and then bump it to 30mg. I will see just what effects it has.

One thing about tbol is. That libido boost is almost uncomfortable lol. I've been on trt for years and never felt a libido boost like this. Not even proviron had this effect.

It feels a very nice compound tbh. Whenever I use a dht base I always feel a slight irritability. I actually hate dht compounds. Soon as I take them I just watch my hair all fall out.

I will wait a few weeks and do some bloodwork and see what the tbol is doing.

You respond very similarly to me to it. I always feel great on tbol and always get the same libido boost. It's nice because it allows me to train longer and harder in the gym which equals better gains. And I always said the same thing - test derivatives just seem to be better "feel good" compounds compared to DHT derivatives. Obviously this doesn't apply 100% of the time and not to everyone but it does apply to me.

You really have to put in the work to get quality results out of tbol... maybe that's not why it's as popular. I feel like people always expect their orals to just blow them up and make them super strong. After reading/writing this thread I'm tempted to buy some tbol as I don't have any in my stash lol

How long are you planning on running it for? I'd run it for at least 6 weeks... could do 8 in my opinion... and with blood work in check I would even consider 10 weeks. I'm sure I'll get some sh!t for mentioning running an oral that long but if your markers are good...

 

[bell1986]

You respond very similarly to me to it. I always feel great on tbol and always get the same libido boost. It's nice because it allows me to train longer and harder in the gym which equals better gains. And I always said the same thing - test derivatives just seem to be better "feel good" compounds compared to DHT derivatives. Obviously this doesn't apply 100% of the time and not to everyone but it does apply to me.

You really have to put in the work to get quality results out of tbol... maybe that's not why it's as popular. I feel like people always expect their orals to just blow them up and make them super strong. After reading/writing this thread I'm tempted to buy some tbol as I don't have any in my stash lol

How long are you planning on running it for? I'd run it for at least 6 weeks... could do 8 in my opinion... and with blood work in check I would even consider 10 weeks. I'm sure I'll get some sh!t for mentioning running an oral that long but if your markers are good...

Yeh I would say test derivatives are much nicer in terms of the mental impact. Dht based all make me feel very off. You ever tried Anadrol? Honestly I thought I was gonna projectile vomit on those lol. Made me hellishly nauseous. I actually felt weaker on those as I just felt so off.

I reckon I will keep it running for 6 weeks and do bloodwork to see if anything looks off. I do run Tudca 365 days a year so in terms of liver etc I don't see an issue.

Are you currently on TRT? I've been on it for years now. My body has just adjusted to higher test levels that I can't gain as much from it anymore. Also. I've read hundreds of posts/comments that people's libidos completely flat line on trt and this happened to me. I done a full bloodwork a few months ago and noticed that all the neuro steroids were absolutely tanked. DHEA' Pregnenolone etc. This is never talked about before people get put on trt. Kind of annoys me. Leutinising hormone is needed to stimulate this neuro steroid production. We don't product LH anymore so our levels tank and we lose our libidos.

Dhea + Pregnenolone supplemented brings this back. It took a few weeks but I mind waking up one day and just felt much better. I knew it was the dhea etc. My libido returned. You can use hcg to replace LH but it spikes estrogen like crazy and I hate touching A'I's. They make me feel like mould.

I will keep posting here on how results fair. I'm not expecting huge increases in weight etc.

When you ran tbol what do you reckon you got out of it?

 

[Smont]

Tbol is very good at improving strength and athletic performance while not adding bodyweight. It's the main reason mma fighters like it.

As for the comments on adjusted to higher testosterone and can't grow on it anymore. That's absolutely is NOT a real thing, unless your saying you can't grow on your trt dose anymore, most of us cant. You could always increase testosterone dose for more muscle gains then tbol in every situation tho

 

[Stacks1]

Yeh I would say test derivatives are much nicer in terms of the mental impact. Dht based all make me feel very off. You ever tried Anadrol? Honestly I thought I was gonna projectile vomit on those lol. Made me hellishly nauseous. I actually felt weaker on those as I just felt so off.

I reckon I will keep it running for 6 weeks and do bloodwork to see if anything looks off. I do run Tudca 365 days a year so in terms of liver etc I don't see an issue.

Are you currently on TRT? I've been on it for years now. My body has just adjusted to higher test levels that I can't gain as much from it anymore. Also. I've read hundreds of posts/comments that people's libidos completely flat line on trt and this happened to me. I done a full bloodwork a few months ago and noticed that all the neuro steroids were absolutely tanked. DHEA' Pregnenolone etc. This is never talked about before people get put on trt. Kind of annoys me. Leutinising hormone is needed to stimulate this neuro steroid production. We don't product LH anymore so our levels tank and we lose our libidos.

Dhea + Pregnenolone supplemented brings this back. It took a few weeks but I mind waking up one day and just felt much better. I knew it was the dhea etc. My libido returned. You can use hcg to replace LH but it spikes estrogen like crazy and I hate touching A'I's. They make me feel like mould.

I will keep posting here on how results fair. I'm not expecting huge increases in weight etc.

When you ran tbol what do you reckon you got out of it?

I can't say I've ever felt weaker on anadrol.... but I agree that I definitely don't feel great on it like I do with tbol. Like I said, I agree that there is something about test derivatives that just feel better.

I'm not on TRT. My natural test is still in the 700s so I continue to cycle and PCT so I can't comment. Eventually the time will come where I'll be on the TRT bandwagon but it's not something I've personally felt the need to rush and probably won't until my natural test falls lower.

Tbol I got good strength gains on. I remember hitting a new PR on bench the first time I took it. I also felt like my endurance was much better. I was able to spend far more time in the gym (especially when compared to some of those heavy DHT derivatives). Like I said, it doesn't just blow you up like some orals but it gives you the boost you need to increase the volume, intensity, etc in the gym and create more real gains... not the bloated gains where you're athletic performance declines to a point where you can't even walk up the stairs like some orals cause.

I was really hoping to avoid buying more AAS but all this talk about tbol is going to lead to me buying more to put in my stash for a cut.

I'd be interested to see what your blood work looks like after 6 weeks. I believe I've ran it for 8 weeks and had no noticeable issues. Unfortunately I didn't get my blood work done until after my PCT but everything was in check.

 

[bell1986]

I can't say I've ever felt weaker on anadrol.... but I agree that I definitely don't feel great on it like I do with tbol. Like I said, I agree that there is something about test derivatives that just feel better.

I'm not on TRT. My natural test is still in the 700s so I continue to cycle and PCT so I can't comment. Eventually the time will come where I'll be on the TRT bandwagon but it's not something I've personally felt the need to rush and probably won't until my natural test falls lower.

Tbol I got good strength gains on. I remember hitting a new PR on bench the first time I took it. I also felt like my endurance was much better. I was able to spend far more time in the gym (especially when compared to some of those heavy DHT derivatives). Like I said, it doesn't just blow you up like some orals but it gives you the boost you need to increase the volume, intensity, etc in the gym and create more real gains... not the bloated gains where you're athletic performance declines to a point where you can't even walk up the stairs like some orals cause.

I was really hoping to avoid buying more AAS but all this talk about tbol is going to lead to me buying more to put in my stash for a cut.

I'd be interested to see what your blood work looks like after 6 weeks. I believe I've ran it for 8 weeks and had no noticeable issues. Unfortunately I didn't get my blood work done until after my PCT but everything was in check.

If im being honest. I honestly would stay natural as long as possible. I haven't had a good trt experience. My body aromatises fairly quick and it's an absolute nightmare keeping estrogen in control. I've had so many high and low estrogen periods that it's genuinely messed up parts of my life.

Their are also parts that no one on trt likes to admit also. Dhea/Pregnenolone drop drastically. It's a feedback mechanism from LH leutinising hormone. You can add in both the hormones but it's just more pills and more costs.

Trt at first feels great and then everything does a 180. My libido is garbage now compared to prior. My mood is up abd down.

I genuinely wish I never had to start to trt. I want to come off but I've been pinning for years and know I won't kick-start again. Well I think I won't.

Stay natural as long as you possibly can

I will post bloodwork after 6 weeks. I actually have bloods been looked at right now. Hoping for the results some time today.

 

[Stacks1]

If im being honest. I honestly would stay natural as long as possible. I haven't had a good trt experience. My body aromatises fairly quick and it's an absolute nightmare keeping estrogen in control. I've had so many high and low estrogen periods that it's genuinely messed up parts of my life.

Their are also parts that no one on trt likes to admit also. Dhea/Pregnenolone drop drastically. It's a feedback mechanism from LH leutinising hormone. You can add in both the hormones but it's just more pills and more costs.

Trt at first feels great and then everything does a 180. My libido is garbage now compared to prior. My mood is up abd down.

I genuinely wish I never had to start to trt. I want to come off but I've been pinning for years and know I won't kick-start again. Well I think I won't.

Stay natural as long as you possibly can

I will post bloodwork after 6 weeks. I actually have bloods been looked at right now. Hoping for the results some time today.

I feel like there is an unnecessary rush for a lot of people to go on TRT. It's not something I really understand. If you need it, that's one thing. But a lot of people are purposefully tanking their test levels and then going to TRT clinics so they can get on it. If that's what people want to do then fine. I've never done the "blasting and cruising" thing because I think that's pretty much a direct line to TRT. And a lot of people say "go on TRT now because you'll end up on it eventually" which I think is another odd way of reasoning it.

Like I said, it's very possible I will end up on TRT but I have tried to mitigate the risk as much as possible; keeping cycles mild or short, and what I believe to be the real key - taking sufficient time off between cycles.