water/ carb manipulation

[pistol345]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, but it is a bodybuilding contest preparation technique.

Anyways, I just finished my pre-bulk cut today and wanted to cap it off with some water weight loss. I'm far from an expert when it comes to this, but I was eager to give it a try. So here's what I did...

Before changing anything, I measured my bodyfat a few times to get a consistent reading. It said 9.02% and I think that's pretty accurate.

Here's the before pics

Starting on Sunday morning, I went high water, almost no carbs (under 20g). I lifted pretty hard and did some cardio.
On Monday I continued with high water, no carbs. I didn't lift this day, but went played basketball for like 3 hours. I left the gym exhausted. I'm pretty sure I burned up all my glycogen because by Tuesday I felt like a zombie.
I felt so tired I could hardly get myself to the gym. I grinded through a full body workout and headed home. I continued the high water, no carbs til 5pm. Then I ate 2 cans of sliced pears to restore liver glycogen. I cut out all liquid after that. I went to waffle house and got some chocolate chip pancakes with syrup and hashbrowns.
Followed that up a few hours later with some sun chips and homemade burritos (lean turkey meat, refried beans, whole wheat tortillas, taco sauce). Since I stopped drinking water, I pissed like 4 more times that night. I was hella thirsty when I tried to go to sleep so I took a couple baby sips of diet green tea.
Woke up today, pissed again. Throat was crazy dry, took another baby sip of tea. Went and got a chicken biscuit from Jack in the Box, and 2 cinnamon and raisin biscuits from hardees (covered in glaze).
Ate some dry cereal before I went to class at 2pm. Got out at 4:30 pm and ate a whole pack of lifesaver gummies and drank a can of mountain dew (first real liquid in 24 hours). Popped some nitrates with it so I could get a pump before taking pics.
Got home, started with some push ups, curls, sit ups. Got a little pump going and took some pics. I also re measured my bodyfat a few times to get a consistent reading.
It said 8.09%. I really tried to get accurate meaurements because I'm not trying to fool myself. Ive read that it doesn't make a huge difference at my bodyfat level, but that it makes a huge difference if ur already at 6% or below before doing it.

 

[pistol345]

I'll let you be the judge, but I think I look a tad leaner... nothing drastic tho.

After pictures

I probably made the comparison a little unfair by taking such a variety of After pics, but I thought I looked good and wanted to capture it before bulking made me soft again. Haha.

So basically I was hoping you guys could critique what I did.
If I did it again, I would have started low carbs high water for like 5 days instead of 2.5. Probably could have benefited from some cardio today to sweat more, maybe an epsom salt bath.
So what do you guys think? (And please don't be a douche about it)

Thanks!

 

[AlexPowell]

learn to pose man
jesus

 

[Sean1332]

Why did you cut water? You're just going to gain it back.

 

[Driven2lift]

Why did you cut water? You're just going to gain it back.

For temporary extra leaning/definition. The goal is a plan for a show/event, after which of course there will be rebound

 

[Sean1332]

For temporary extra leaning/definition. The goal is a plan for a show/event, after which of course there will be rebound

I get that part. I've cut water as well. Weighed 214 one night, 200 the next. I was wondering why he did it just to "cap it off" or practice for an event or what have you. Was curious is all.

 

[pistol345]

Didn't realize the posing police were here. Wtf? Haha. But yea, I just did it for practice. Not necessarily planning to step on stage one day, but practicing for it doesn't hurt anything

 

[pistol345]

Btw, any advice from you guys that have cut water before? Think I should include diaretics next time?

 

[Magdalena]

R u thinking about doing men's physique?
First u need to build, not worry about cutting water etc...
Get those shoulders wider,
Build up ur chest
Back ... etc...
And posing is another story..
It's nice to have a coach right there correcting ur pose for ya... But just look up some bb shows and learn some poses..
Good luck with everything..
U r on the right track , keep training hard..

 

[pistol345]

R u thinking about doing men's physique?
First u need to build, not worry about cutting water etc...
Get those shoulders wider,
Build up ur chest
Back ... etc...
And posing is another story..
It's nice to have a coach right there correcting ur pose for ya... But just look up some bb shows and learn some poses..
Good luck with everything..
U r on the right track , keep training hard..

If I did compete, it would certainly be for the physique class. Yea, I'm not fooling myself. I know I need to put on some more muscle first, but I look amazing compared to when I started. I've gained 20lbs and lost like 3%bf, and I'm not done yet.
Thanks for the support tho. Repped!

 

[Magdalena]

Good job!! U look great!!
20lbs is a lot.
I think u would do very well in men's physique!!
Keep training hard my friend

 

[JD261985]

If you stay as lean as you are and put on more muscle your bodyfat will definitely go down even further even if you gained some fat. Abs look a bit thicker and arms have definitely increased in size so keep it up. Make sure you're hitting legs hard as hell

 

[pistol345]

Thanks a lot. This world is full of haters (especially these forums), so its nice to get some genuine support.

 

[pistol345]

If you stay as lean as you are and put on more muscle your bodyfat will definitely go down even further even if you gained some fat. Abs look a bit thicker and arms have definitely increased in size so keep it up. Make sure you're hitting legs hard as hell

Good advice. And yea, I hit legs hard as hell. I play basketball and I'm a dunker, so I'm always tryin to top my last dunks

 

[pistol345]

Hey guys. Just started an osta/ S4 log if you want to check it out/ give input.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/241440-pistol-osta-s4.html

 

[Hansel]

Looking ripped as fark, son. I'd recommend putting on some mass tho before you step on the stage. Not hatin' just recommending.

 

[pistol345]

Looking ripped as fark, son. I'd recommend putting on some mass tho before you step on the stage. Not hatin' just recommending.

Thank you! Yea, I definitely don't wanna step on stage and look all scrawney, so I'm lean bulking now

 

[EWolfe08]

Cutting Water

There are a lot of different ways (and theories) to run your "peak weak" which including manipulating carbs and water.

I'll just stick to your question and tell you what has worked for me, and what seems to be the norm among competitors.

Water:
Mon 2 gallons
Tu 2 gallons
Wed 2 gallons
Th 2 gallons
Fri 16oz (throughout day)
Sat sips with morning meals and after prejudging, depending on call outs of course.

MOST people do use a diuretic, some just herbal, some use more powerful (prescription) diuretics. I would start with an OTC herbal.

Hope that helps.

 

[tinytony]

There are a lot of different ways (and theories) to run your "peak weak" which including manipulating carbs and water.

I'll just stick to your question and tell you what has worked for me, and what seems to be the norm among competitors.

Water:
Mon 2 gallons
Tu 2 gallons
Wed 2 gallons
Th 2 gallons
Fri 16oz (throughout day)
Sat sips with morning meals and after prejudging, depending on call outs of course.

MOST people do use a diuretic, some just herbal, some use more powerful (prescription) diuretics. I would start with an OTC herbal.

Hope that helps.

Ephedrine and caffeine is powerful diuretic and fat burner to keep in mind

 

[fueledpassion]

Danelion Root works well for me.

If u use a prescription grade, I recommend running it Tuesday and Wednesday, but to give urself a full 48hrs to replenish vitamins and minerals to the muscle, otherwise you'll come out flat looking day of.

 

[tinytony]

Danelion Root works well for me.

If u use a prescription grade, I recommend running it Tuesday and Wednesday, but to give urself a full 48hrs to replenish vitamins and minerals to the muscle, otherwise you'll come out flat looking day of.

Yeah I used dandelion root along with Uva Ursi and you get dry as a bone. Especially sipping a bit if alcohol and low dose ephedrine

 

[fueledpassion]

Yeah I used dandelion root along with Uva Ursi and you get dry as a bone. Especially sipping a bit if alcohol and low dose ephedrine

What's low dose? 12.5mg? 6.25mg?

Too much raises my cortisol levels and then makes me hold water. Kinda like Yohimbine.

 

[tinytony]

What's low dose? 12.5mg? 6.25mg?

Too much raises my cortisol levels and then makes me hold water. Kinda like Yohimbine.

No me. It dries me out no matter what. I'm talking 25. That's low for me as I run it at 50 when just cutting

 

[tinytony]

Fats seem to be the "F-word" when it comes to bodybuilding dieting.

Why you say this? I lost approximately 3% in 4 weeks consuming quite a bit of fat and not necessarily good fats, but while low carbs, and I call that good results.. the combination of carbs and fats can cause fat storage tho. Fat alone? Not so much. Carbs alone? Yeah you can store fat that way too if you eat enough carbs

 

[fueledpassion]

Fats seem to be the "F-word" when it comes to bodybuilding dieting.

Yeah because they dont serve near as much purpose as natty folks.

U need SOME fats, but just exactly what the body "needs" rather than excessive amounts, which for normal bodily function u can get away with less than 20% for weeks at a time before u need to load up again.

Another reason, and a BIG one, is because of insulin use. When using insulin, u dont want to combine fats with carbs, because the fats get stowed away as more body fat and carbs get plunged into the muscle. And since most bb'rs really abuse insulin doses, going way past the effective range of 5-7iu's, (most go between 10-20, which is nuts IMO) they have to eat stupendous amounts of carbs to keep BG normal. So fats have no place in a meal with 100+g of carbs.

And to the post above, fats always get stored as body fat FIRST. Carbs dont. They go to muscle, then to liver storage, THEN they go thru a complex conversion which uses energy to convert them to fatty acids for storage.

High fat/low carb diets work because ur body is shifting its insulin- glucagon axis more heavily toward glucagon, which induces lipolysis. But it also triggers hunger as well since the body recognizes a deficit in calories. So yes, fats store as fats but the body stays in fat burning mode for more hours of the day because of this.

This is fine and dandy, but in this approach you MUST have a fairly decent deficit of calories to wind up in the negative net fat for the day. U gotta make sure u burn more than u take in. Always.

With low fat diets, u can channel carbs and protein exclusively to muscle cells while targeting fat burning at certain times of the day without contributing to more fat stores. In the process, u may also increase ur BMR due to plentiful levels of glucose, which are muscle-sparing. I find that MCT's make this an even greater reality for muscle-sparing fat loss. Couple these with fat burners and/OR T3, u have a potent and relatively easy proces to follow.

Wake up, do cardio fasted, remain fasted for another 3 hours afterwards, take insulin, eat low fat meals and several meals over the course of the day, weight train (sometimes they take insulin here too) and eat low fat meals afterwards. Do some cardio before bed and hut the sack with a large GHRP/GH dose. Wake up and do it again.

Aint even considering the androgens and fat burners. U figure all that and u can burn 2-4lbs of fat off per week. Not weight, BUT FAT.

Insulin use is also why the traditional bodybuilders always eat "small frequent meals". This stabilizes the blood glucose levels.

 

[tinytony]

Yeah because they dont serve near as much purpose as natty folks.

U need SOME fats, but just exactly what the body "needs" rather than excessive amounts, which for normal bodily function u can get away with less than 20% for weeks at a time before u need to load up again.

Another reason, and a BIG one, is because of insulin use. When using insulin, u dont want to combine fats with carbs, because the fats get stowed away as more body fat and carbs get plunged into the muscle. And since most bb'rs really abuse insulin doses, going way past the effective range of 5-7iu's, (most go between 10-20, which is nuts IMO) they have to eat stupendous amounts of carbs to keep BG normal. So fats have no place in a meal with 100+g of carbs.

When it comes to insulin and carbs, more carbs isn't always the answer. The idea of 100 grams in the first shake 30 minutes after doing insulin sounds nice but I personally feel like ****. I just keep carbs close and drink them as I I need and I find you definitely don't need 10 grams per IU of insulin.. I've been feeling best at 150 total carbs consumed in the 4-5 hour window after pinning insulin. And yes I've ran it as high as 13 IU and I feel completely normal and lots of energy.. definitely wouldn't run it that high for long. Just saying. I'm sure I'll bet bashed now but I'm just a few days into my refeed post comp and I decided that if I'm running huge carbs in this rebound why not use insulin. I was up 17 pounds yesterday from Saturday night due to insulin and more vascular and no extra fat storage. Just a bit of water but not much. In the mornings it's gone. I'm just throwing this all in here now because I've always been under the impression that you had to have so many carbs after insulin you could barely choke them down.. but at lower amounts it's clean mass for the most part and you feel better. I felt like puking when I did this amount of carbs on 4 IUs

 

[fueledpassion]

I agree here about carb use. Diabetics sure as heck don't follow 10g per iu!

 

[tinytony]

I agree here about carb use. Diabetics sure as heck don't follow 10g per iu!

I've had hypo episodes when I wasn't using insulin, sometimes loss of vision partially.. not for a few years now but this makes me wonder.. I run 13 IU and feel better than 5 IU at same carbs

 

[Gutterpump]

One of the best ways to manipulate water is through carb depletion/sodium loading | carb loading/sodium depletion. Research this method and best of luck. One of the best methods, for a full yet dry look. Many people stepping onto a stage follow this protocol. Lots of info out there on it.

 

[tinytony]

One of the best ways to manipulate water is through carb depletion/sodium loading | carb loading/sodium depletion. Research this method and best of luck. One of the best methods, for a full yet dry look. Many people stepping onto a stage follow this protocol. Lots of info out there on it.

Yeah I just used this method and dropped like 6 lbs of water over night before a comp

 

[Dulce]

Looking good! Like other posters said, I think if you put on some more mass, you would do great. Keep up with hard work and training. It looks like you are coming along nicely. As someone else mentioned, I think getting a professional coach would be very helpful. Most people tend to get a coach around the 2-4 month mark prior to their competition date.

 

[pistol345]

Looking good! Like other posters said, I think if you put on some more mass, you would do great. Keep up with hard work and training. It looks like you are coming along nicely. As someone else mentioned, I think getting a professional coach would be very helpful. Most people tend to get a coach around the 2-4 month mark prior to their competition date.

Well thank you very much. I'm actually in my bulk right now and am up about 15lbs, 3%bf since these pics. Really been eating like a monster lately to gain some size. Hoping to be about 10lbs heavier next time I finish cutting