wanting to run a PH cycle, but been out of the research for a long time...lots of Qs

imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
Hi, guys hope I am in the right forum.

history: 31 and have been lifting for about 10 years. first to loose weight, which I lost 50lb. then to look better and gain muscle. I know the gym well and I know health pretty well, as far as good diets and supplementation. About 5 years ago I ran a few cycles of some stuff. Epi, andro 1 and 4, some other stuff, did some Sarms couple years after that. I give you this info so you know I am not just jumping the deep end.

Goal: I need to loose abdominal fat. Yes, I know PH cycles are not idea for fat loss, please keep reading to understand.

I am in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the abs down. as a side effect of my injury natural testosterone goes down much quicker then normal. right now I am in the mid 400's, 3 years ago I was in the mid 600's. I am pretty confident that prior to my injury I was around 700-800 course I was also 19 at the time and age is a factor. I eat healthy and workout regularly. TRT Doc's just don't understand my injury and are to stuck in the past to be willing to put me on anything.

Issue: life happens you gain weight, and then you have to clean up. been a normal part of life. being in a wheelchair I am on a diet more often then not to try and keep my body from gaining.
however this past time I lost the 15lb I set out to but next to nothing came off my belly and chest. back, shoulder, arms all look good. you can clearly see a disproportion in fat accumulation in my torso vs other parts of the body. I am convinced this is because of the lower testosterone, that in combination with sex drive, how hard it has become to even lose weight vs a couple years ago.


so. I have been thinking about running a cycle. away back when I ran some kind of Epi (I think ) and the belly fat melted off. best I ever looked after my injury. I have no idea what is legal? what is the best out there? what the best PCT process is now? nothing. just taking DHEA and DIM right now.

from my back knowledge was thinking something like Epi, support, and DIM for 6 weeks, followed by Ostarine, DHEA, DIM for 4 weeks, and natural booster with DIM for another 4 weeks.
but really want to hear what is a new ideal cycle plan for this goal with anything that's new out there.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
What you took was epistane. Not legal, still available. You need clomid and nolva or else toremifene for pct. also not legal.
 
gspark05

gspark05

Member
Awards
0
There are things you could research for to give your rats - at least provide them a good pct - clomiphene or tamoxifen. Sarms and Andros are legal along with DMZ and msten
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
so is there anything out that is legal?
Well you can’t get around using prescription drugs off label for pct. it is an absolute necessity.

You can “legally” get a lot of technically banned stuff. Especially by ordering from the UK. HAVOC is an epistane product found on Predator Nutrition. You will need toremifene for pct and you should go to either MA research or Pure Rawz for that.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
There are things you could research for to give your rats - at least provide them a good pct - clomiphene or tamoxifen. Sarms and Andros are legal along with DMZ and msten
DMZ, MSten, M1AD, DNOL/DDROL, Methyldiazirinol, Max LMG, Androisoxazole, Trestolone, Hexadrone, all still legal and available in the US easily.

M1T, Superdrol, Epistane, 1-T, 1-AD, 19-NORAD, Halodrol, Oxyguno, Furuzadrol, 18 Methyl Nandrolone, Trestdione, Trendione, Boldione, all still legal in the UK and still available to ship to US.
 

Jeremyk1

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
so is there anything out that is legal?
Sort of. The only stuff truly “legal” is the andros, which are just DHEA analogues. SARMs aren’t illegal, but are not legally allowed to be sold as dietary supplements. Most of the actual PHs/DSs that are still around (see what Old Witch mentioned) basically just weren’t explicitly named in legislation, so they’re “legal” through a loophole. That’s my understanding at least.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Sort of. The only stuff truly “legal” is the andros, which are just DHEA analogues. SARMs aren’t illegal, but are not legally allowed to be sold as dietary supplements. Most of the actual PHs/DSs that are still around (see what Old Witch mentioned) basically just weren’t explicitly named in legislation, so they’re “legal” through a loophole. That’s my understanding at least.
Bingo.
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
thanks for all the replies guys. spent all night reading.

as far as fat lose, do you think a Sarm stack such as ostraine and S4 has the same results as something like Eipandro?
 
gspark05

gspark05

Member
Awards
0
I’d argue the sarm route will be more effective. Use epi for boners and energy or something like dermacrine. If you are okay with a little tiredness just stick to the sarms. You should be able to get clomid from the same source as the ost and s4
 
gspark05

gspark05

Member
Awards
0
I’d honestly do all 3. The S4 will do most of the work imo
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
do you need to run something as strong as clomid with Sarms? if you did all three, would you run them together? or start with epiandro for two weeks and add sarms ? to do a taper type method?
 
gspark05

gspark05

Member
Awards
0
If I were you I’d run them together for 12 weeks, but others are more knowledgeable than me.

Clomid .... if I told you that I baked some cookies and there was a 5% chance it contains dog crap would you eat it? Better safe than sorry take the clomid
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I’d honestly do all 3. The S4 will do most of the work imo
Totally agree with this, ostarine on its own is very ineffective but stacked with S4 it works a treat. I used clomid for pct. I do however have strange sight glitches going on now though which could be related to the S4 I took last year as I had the yellow tint and night blindness side effects.
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
really you can run epiandro for 12 weeks? I was under the impression not to go longer than 6? maybe that was with the old epistane
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
really you can run epiandro for 12 weeks? I was under the impression not to go longer than 6? maybe that was with the old epistane
Epistane and epiandro are two completely different things, epiandro is already in your body, like all the andros you need to dose very high to notice effects and try and fool your body into not creating homeostasis as it just converts all the andros into other stuff and you ruin the effects. Epistane is an active steroid.
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
oh right. that was something I was wondering. does for an andro? let say 12 weeks. do you keep uping it every 2 weeks or just go solid for all 12?
 
nubioso

nubioso

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'd suggest S23 over S4 mainly because of the vision impact of S4...but that's just me. S23 seems to be pretty damn liver toxis though so TUDCA and NAC are a must.

S23 provides some pretty nice strength gains and muscle hardness. You won't see it add a ton of size though. DMZ would be better for size gains in addition to strength.
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
epi-andro, some say its suppressive some say its not? is it just subjective like a sarm? some see suppression some don't, or its easier to reset because a PCT is basically simulating the use of DHT again and epi convers to DHT?

if it is suppressive like the rest, would 1-andro just be better and more effective
 
Renew1

Renew1

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
epi-andro, some say its suppressive some say its not? is it just subjective like a sarm? some see suppression some don't, or its easier to reset because a PCT is basically simulating the use of DHT again and epi convers to DHT?

if it is suppressive like the rest, would 1-andro just be better and more effective
Andros are suppressive. SARMS (for the most part) are suppressive.

I'm not entirely familiar with your situation, but your medical situation is different from most. I would speak with a Dr. about your concerns.
 
Chados

Chados

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Epistane sure or Msten is one that you probably won't experience sides with and you won't be disappointed with
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
I am gonna run epistan probably but not until March, because I got a huge exam end of Feb. I don't want to do any serious research before them with that type of thing.

however, I am gonna run Ostarine and S4 in January I think. what is an ideal cycle length? 6 weeks?
 
imjosiah

imjosiah

New member
Awards
0
well maybe I should run ostarine and epiandro… sounds like epiandro might be effective for me since I have not run anything in 5 plus years, and its sounds like its easy to recover faster from.
 

Top