Wake up in middle of night/Cortisol?

[thegodfather]

I have been plagued with bad sleep for years. I have no problem falling asleep, but several days a week I will wake up in the early morning hours and feel like my nervous system is on overdrive. It's like I have the uncontrollable urge to flex my arms and legs and I have to get up and walk around for a few. Eventually I'll lay back down and fall asleep again. I've always suspected that I have some kind of adrenal fatigue from partying so much in my 20's and burning the candle at both ends. Everything that I read says that cortisol should be low at night, and that high cortisol levels are stimulating and could affect sleep. However when I take supplements at night that reduce cortisol (such as Cissus or Phosphatydlserine), it seems to make it worse. Are my cortisol levels getting too low at night, to the point that I am having low blood sugar fits? I've done a sleep study before and they said I have very mild sleep apnea, and that I could benefit from a CPAP but it's not life-threatening or anything. I just feel like it is hormone related and that is what is messing with my nervous system. Anybody else ever have anything like that occur to them as well?

 

[aaronuconn]

Did you try out the CPAP machine to see if it benefits you?

Hormonally, you could get blood work to see. Work with a doc and explain your issue. There is also a 24-hr urine same cortisol test. No idea if doc’s are quick to go to this, but they’re available.

 

[Resolve10]

I have been plagued with bad sleep for years. I have no problem falling asleep, but several days a week I will wake up in the early morning hours and feel like my nervous system is on overdrive. It's like I have the uncontrollable urge to flex my arms and legs and I have to get up and walk around for a few. Eventually I'll lay back down and fall asleep again. I've always suspected that I have some kind of adrenal fatigue from partying so much in my 20's and burning the candle at both ends. Everything that I read says that cortisol should be low at night, and that high cortisol levels are stimulating and could affect sleep. However when I take supplements at night that reduce cortisol (such as Cissus or Phosphatydlserine), it seems to make it worse. Are my cortisol levels getting too low at night, to the point that I am having low blood sugar fits? I've done a sleep study before and they said I have very mild sleep apnea, and that I could benefit from a CPAP but it's not life-threatening or anything. I just feel like it is hormone related and that is what is messing with my nervous system. Anybody else ever have anything like that occur to them as well?

I feel like you have your answer but you want it to be hormone related instead. Just because it isn't life threatening doesn't mean it isn't causing problems (like you are dealing with).

 

[thegodfather]

Did you try out the CPAP machine to see if it benefits you?

Hormonally, you could get blood work to see. Work with a doc and explain your issue. There is also a 24-hr urine same cortisol test. No idea if doc’s are quick to go to this, but they’re available.

I did try it for a couple nights and I couldn't get used to it. It forces air into you and makes you feel like you're choking a little. The facemask and hose is a whole other issue. I've had lots of bloodwork done over the years and nothing seems to jump out, except iron. I tend to get low iron saturation levels and fairly lower ferritin. I take an iron supplement per doctor's request and it seems to fix the issue of low iron for awhile. I've been prescribed Ambien, Trazadone, Gabapentin, and another sleep aid that I forgot the name, all in attempts to help me sleep. I'll ask about the cortisol test. I might just get one myself.

 

[thegodfather]

I feel like you have your answer but you want it to be hormone related instead. Just because it isn't life threatening doesn't mean it isn't causing problems (like you are dealing with).

I don't put a lot of faith in those types of things. I feel like they would tell me to pay the money for the machine (just in case) even if I could get by without it. Maybe that's my skepticism in traditional medicine and big pharmacy.

 

[thebigt]

I have been plagued with bad sleep for years. I have no problem falling asleep, but several days a week I will wake up in the early morning hours and feel like my nervous system is on overdrive. It's like I have the uncontrollable urge to flex my arms and legs and I have to get up and walk around for a few. Eventually I'll lay back down and fall asleep again. I've always suspected that I have some kind of adrenal fatigue from partying so much in my 20's and burning the candle at both ends. Everything that I read says that cortisol should be low at night, and that high cortisol levels are stimulating and could affect sleep. However when I take supplements at night that reduce cortisol (such as Cissus or Phosphatydlserine), it seems to make it worse. Are my cortisol levels getting too low at night, to the point that I am having low blood sugar fits? I've done a sleep study before and they said I have very mild sleep apnea, and that I could benefit from a CPAP but it's not life-threatening or anything. I just feel like it is hormone related and that is what is messing with my nervous system. Anybody else ever have anything like that occur to them as well?

when you went to sleep clinic did they test you for rls-restless leg syndrome?

 

[thegodfather]

when you went to sleep clinic did they test you for rls-restless leg syndrome?

No they didn't, or at least they didn't tell me they did. I definitely have that though because my wife says my legs are always moving and kicking when I sleep. My doctor said low iron is a cause of restless leg syndrome. I've also seen where low dopamine levels in the brain can cause this too.

 

[thebigt]

No they didn't, or at least they didn't tell me they did. I definitely have that though because my wife says my legs are always moving and kicking when I sleep. My doctor said low iron is a cause of restless leg syndrome. I've also seen where low dopamine levels in the brain can cause this too.

ropinirole is something widely prescribed for rls, it restores dopamine and is also used to treat parkinsons...or you could just order some good quality macuna and see how it treats you.

 

[thegodfather]

ropinirole is something widely prescribed for rls, it restores dopamine and is also used to treat parkinsons...or you could just order some good quality macuna and see how it treats you.

Thanks man. I've been actually taking mucuna a few days a week alongside EGCG and it seems to work very well for motivation and clarity. I never really took notice whether it has helped with sleep though. I'll let you know in a few days.

 

[Beau]

When you wake in the middle of the night (something I do frequently) are you sweaty? Frequently, I notice that I am sweaty, even when it is not hot in the room.

Subbed, regardless.

 

[thebigt]

Thanks man. I've been actually taking mucuna a few days a week alongside EGCG and it seems to work very well for motivation and clarity. I never really took notice whether it has helped with sleep though. I'll let you know in a few days.

a nice simple fix if it takes care of your issue...but you might want to discuss long term macuna use with your doc, it might be that for long term use ropinirole is actually the safer option?

 

[thegodfather]

When you wake in the middle of the night (something I do frequently) are you sweaty? Frequently, I notice that I am sweaty, even when it is not hot in the room.

Subbed, regardless.

Sometimes yes, but not always. I've also read that it is around this time (0100-0300) that your liver goes into overdrive cleansing your blood. This is such a perplexing thing because it seems like it could be any number of different things.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@thegodfather
I’ve been having a similar issue for about 4 years. My sleep is very fragile and I have to do everything right to sleep well. All adaptogens and anything close to it cause me to wake up at 1am and be awake for hours, even supposedly relaxing ones like ashwagandha. Overtraining in a single session will cause me to wake up several times and feel like absolute trash the next day as well. But for me, overtraining is as simple as doing 2 sets of 4 deadlifts at 405, followed by 4-5 sets of 300 lb sled drags. To give perspective, my 1RM is 455. I’m still figuring out how much more to pull back to not do that, but apparently I can’t work to failure at all.

I’ve had all kinds of blood/saliva tests over the Years, and I have low-ish cortisol saliva tests, and very deficient levels of pregnenolone and DHEA-s. I haven’t tried supplementing pregnenolone yet because DHEA made me feel so bad. It might be the salvation I need, but I’ve had such poor reactions to everything over the year, I’m hesitant to try it. I will be soon though. I’m also prescribed testosterone but that does not help.

 

[thegodfather]

@thegodfather
I’ve been having a similar issue for about 4 years. My sleep is very fragile and I have to do everything right to sleep well. All adaptogens and anything close to it cause me to wake up at 1am and be awake for hours, even supposedly relaxing ones like ashwagandha. Overtraining in a single session will cause me to wake up several times and feel like absolute trash the next day as well. But for me, overtraining is as simple as doing 2 sets of 4 deadlifts at 405, followed by 4-5 sets of 300 lb sled drags. To give perspective, my 1RM is 455. I’m still figuring out how much more to pull back to not do that, but apparently I can’t work to failure at all.

I’ve had all kinds of blood/saliva tests over the Years, and I have low-ish cortisol saliva tests, and very deficient levels of pregnenolone and DHEA-s. I haven’t tried supplementing pregnenolone yet because DHEA made me feel so bad. It might be the salvation I need, but I’ve had such poor reactions to everything over the year, I’m hesitant to try it. I will be soon though. I’m also prescribed testosterone but that does not help.

Thanks for your reply man. I never even considered it being an issue with DHEA/Preg levels, although I remember having trouble with this all the way back to when I dabbled with recreational drugs. To me it seems like it's an imbalance of neurotransmitters and or stress hormones, but I just can't get it dialed in as to what. I might just have to fork over the cash and have a saliva test done to see if it reveals anything.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks for your reply man. I never even considered it being an issue with DHEA/Preg levels, although I remember having trouble with this all the way back to when I dabbled with recreational drugs. To me it seems like it's an imbalance of neurotransmitters and or stress hormones, but I just can't get it dialed in as to what. I might just have to fork over the cash and have a saliva test done to see if it reveals anything.

That was the other thing...I did have blood tests (I think, may have been saliva...) looking at neurotransmitter levels like NE/DA/etc and all were normal when this issue was at its worst. Also, preg/DHEA play into our stress responses as well, preg->prog->cortisol and all that.

I use discountedlabs dot com for most of my bloodwork. Best price I’ve found overall, but unsure if they have the salivary stuff...

 

[UCSMiami]

How late do you eat or drink coffee or sugary drinks before turning in?

 

[thegodfather]

How late do you eat or drink coffee or sugary drinks before turning in?

Generally I don't have caffeine later than early afternoon in the day, and I usually don't go to sleep until around 10ish at night.

 

[Darkhorse192]

High carb meal before bed, preferably with a quality carb source like a sweet potato...trust me

also cut out melatonin if you are currently using it

 

[GreenMachineX]

Any update here?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Any update here?

Trying one more time...
@thegodfather

 

[thegodfather]

Trying one more time...
@thegodfather

Sorry I haven't logged on in awhile, been busy and sidetracked doing other things. Right now things are pretty much the same. It seems like I will have days where my sleep is fairly uninterrupted and then spells of where I wake up several times in the middle of the night. I still think it's something hormonal or nutritional opposed to anxiety or running thoughts, but I will continue to seek out answers.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Sorry I haven't logged on in awhile, been busy and sidetracked doing other things. Right now things are pretty much the same. It seems like I will have days where my sleep is fairly uninterrupted and then spells of where I wake up several times in the middle of the night. I still think it's something hormonal or nutritional opposed to anxiety or running thoughts, but I will continue to seek out answers.

Are you on TRT?

 

[thegodfather]

Are you on TRT?

Yes since 2012, but this goes back since probably 04.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yes since 2012, but this goes back since probably 04.

Well, my same type of issue has resolved since switching to 20mg EOD testosterone cypionate.

 

[BloodManor]

Really interesting post since I suffer from the same thing. I have a cpap machine but it doesn’t help my muscle restlessness. I wake up all the time around 1-2am and my muscle just want to move. It’s such a weird feeling and sucks because it will keep me up for a hour or 2. I also am on trt at 200mg of test cyp a week.

 

[Darkhorse192]

@thegodfather are you on low(er) calories or at a low BF? Have you had any blood work done?