Wacky chest injury - please read and advise...

BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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I have been icing it again today. I think I should start taking the flax seed route with glucosamine. What about protein shakes...is it still important to keep up on your protein?
Yes, definitely. You should also look into taking Hyaluronic Acid, and Cissus Quadrangularis. Both compounds have a very positive effect on bone/connective tissue healing.

One mistake I made is that, as soon as my chest felt a little better Id try to get right back at the weights. At one point, I nearly felt 100% and then my truck broke down and I tried to push it-and I could actually feel whatever was in there tearing and then that's when the real pain started.

It was definitely a slow process, so be patient. Keep icing, stretching, and massaging the area and take all the above mentioned supplements. Getting a good 8-10 hours of sleep a night is important too. I never tried it, but Id bet something to boost GH would be a big help...possibly 1-2g of GABA a day, or maybe PGHT.

bv
 

IONOI2007

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Had it not been for that truck of yours!

You would have never known you weren't 100%. I have been icing over the last three days. Noticeable improvement happened within 24 hours. It feels better after each 20 minute icing.
Did a lot of web searching last night and in each case it seems that someone over did the dips and pain occurred. These searches went back to 2003. Their should be a disclaimer on gym equipment about how fragile your tendons are. I also seem to be plagued if I sleep the wrong way or sit the wrong way. I am always correcting my posture, etc.
At one point there was a reference to tendonitis and tendonosis. One requires rest and the other might require surgery or more evasive treatmen. It said that if after two weeks no improvement occurs than you have os-is instead of it-is. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drryan13.htm.

You were benching 300lbs at the time and doing 90lbs flyes...I was just inches away from breaking 300 before this happened. Very disappointing.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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You were benching 300lbs at the time and doing 90lbs flyes...I was just inches away from breaking 300 before this happened. Very disappointing.
You'll get back there bro - my muscles had become very strong, in part due to a 4-week cycle of 1Test/4AD about 6 months before this injury. I had only been training seriously for ~2.5 years at the time - obviously the connective tissue had not become strong enough yet to deal with the heavier load.

BV
 

ultra2extreme

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How was your general diet/supplement intake at this time (both of you)? im a great believer that with the correct unfaltering intake of all the essential vits, mins and nutrients coupled with correct form, most injuries should be preventable.

Speaking honestly, would you both say you were 100% methodically medicated with preventative support compounds or could there potentially have been some fault on your part?

Obviously im not suggesting either of you are stupid or slack or whatever but id be interested to know your honest response.
 

IONOI2007

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Guilty as charged...

I appreciate your post and your right. Of course, I am going to say I thought I knew better. Better than all the tons of research out there, etc. I was an always an avid reader of muscle mags, books and followed their routines. However, I was always sceptical of supplements, knowing full well that the supplement companies own the magazines.

I was a modest lifter. Definitely not extreme and not even every day. Now that I'm a dad I am lucky if I can go every 4 days. So I would work out to the point where my muscles were exausted and then go home. I would wait four days or until I was no longer sore and go again. This routine was working pretty well. I was building muscle, gaining strength and my bench was going up. What more can I say.

I agree with your synopsis to a point. Only to say that you are implying that when using supplements correctly you will never get injured. I could show you a list of people via web forum who complain of this same injury but don't even work out. It has happened to people from all walks of life...sitting the wrong way, bad posture, child birth, and from being thrown from a bull. We are talking about an injury where some part of the chest, sternum or cartilage and possible tendon fracture have all come in to play. I would have to disagree with you there. But you are right in my case[/COLOR], that if I had stretched out, warmed up the area and taken correct supplements vitamins, minerals, etc. and then cooled down then this whole mess may never have happened. Believe me I wish I knew this in advance.

In my case, I believe it happened because at times I do like to push the envelope. I will strive to do more reps, more weights, more dips, more push ups. However, let me also point out that proper form is key. If your form is such that during a dip you come all the way down to where your knees touch the ground, you could cause an injury. I have found this little juicy tidbit just a wee bit late. I read that you are only supposed to go to where you arms are parallel with the bar and no further. I could have been setting myself up for even more injuries.

There were new things I wanted to try. I had read about a handstand pushups, zero-gravity dips, Tried it, got up to doing a few reps and then felt pain once again. Anyway, I could go on forever. I also have to let you know guys know about carrying the baby-seat after suffering this injury. It just adds more fuel to the fire.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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How was your general diet/supplement intake at this time (both of you)? im a great believer that with the correct unfaltering intake of all the essential vits, mins and nutrients coupled with correct form, most injuries should be preventable.

Speaking honestly, would you both say you were 100% methodically medicated with preventative support compounds or could there potentially have been some fault on your part?

Obviously im not suggesting either of you are stupid or slack or whatever but id be interested to know your honest response.
Good question, Ultra. With all honesty bro, I can probably dig the notebook out of the attic that had my exact nutrition on the day of the injury...I've always been pretty meticulous about diet (although admittedly kinda slacking on recording everything as of late).

Ill tell you what though - at the time of that injury I was *very* stressed out. I'd gone from working 20-30 hours a week as a waiter in college, and working out 4-6 days a week with my brother (the best training partner I could ever have), to working 50-60 hours a week as a new restaurant manager and struggling to get to the gym in between a relentless work schedule.

Although my nutrition and supplementation was on point, I was definitely getting less sleep and without a doubt that may have had something to do with it. The 'coup de gras' for that injury is when I was trying to push-start my truck, and that was after working 3 10-12 hour days in a row, sleeping in a motel, and being stranded at 2am in a city 100 miles from home.

So, you are definitely right in thinking that all the ducks weren't lined up at that point and time. Diet and training were solid, but the 3rd leg of the triangle, rest, was sorely lacking. Im sure my cortisol levels were plenty high as well.

BV
 

IONOI2007

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Update!

BV. I have just received my first shipment of Cissus Heinous! I hope it works. I have read a lot about it and it seems to have always had a positive result. Meanwhile I have been icing like a fellon and using G&C and MSM and Flax seed oil. My fiance is being grossed out daily but my chest feels like it is on the mend.

Question for you. Is there a limit as to how much Cissus one should take? I know the American motto is that if a little bit helps...then use it all.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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Question for you. Is there a limit as to how much Cissus one should take? I know the American motto is that if a little bit helps...then use it all.
6g a day is my favorite dose for Cissus (2g 3x/day)- it provides a nice anabolic effect too. Whenever Ive tried to 'megadose' the stuff, I felt like my hormones were out of balance - libido dropped and I felt lethargic. Right around 6g it's through the roof and I feel super.

BV
 

IONOI2007

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How about the gas

BV, I am starting to think they should call it Gasseous instead of Cissus. Was there a brand that did not cause gas? It's all relative I suppose...no matter what protein or supplement I used...it always caused gas.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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BV, I am starting to think they should call it Gasseous instead of Cissus. Was there a brand that did not cause gas? It's all relative I suppose...no matter what protein or supplement I used...it always caused gas.
Try taking some digestive enzymes or gas-x, that usually helps!
 

IONOI2007

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Update from IONOI

BV, Would you believe me if I told you that my rotator cuff appears to be injured as well. I think this happened last week when I pushed an old truck. JK. I was pushing some old equipment out of a data center and I think it gave in. So I have been icing that as well.

So all in all it is still early but I think I am still making progress somewhere. I am aware of my injuries and not testing myself to see if I can suffer through the pain. I went to the gym and stretched for 40 minutes. I have been icing my chest and RC all week, along with supplementing GC+C, MSM, Flax, and Cissus. I have been taking it easy with the Cissus due to the fact, I am worried it could cause a breakout. So I am slowly building up my tolerance.

That has been the case with all supplements in the past...you can even find a thread on this site which refers to Cissus and acne. Whey protein does a number on me as well...I think I am allergic to that stuff.

Anyway, not expecting a response but just wanted to keep this forum going.
 
BigVrunga

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BV, Would you believe me if I told you that my rotator cuff appears to be injured as well. I think this happened last week when I pushed an old truck. JK. I was pushing some old equipment out of a data center and I think it gave in. So I have been icing that as well.
I would definitely believe it bro, because the exact same thing happened to me. When my chest injury was at its worst, my rotator cuffs in both shoulders went out as well. The whole uppergirdle is held in a delicate balance by muscles and tendons that anchor the shoulders to the chest and upper thorax. Because the shoulder is a free-floating joint, any small offset to this balance can result in a whole host of problems. From shoulder impingement to bursitis.

For me, I injured my chest first but kept trying to work out shoulders as normal. After a few months, when I swung my arm around in a circle it sounded like a ratchet there was so much clicking and popping going on in my shoulder. There's a thread about that too:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/208162-post5.html

My chest felt fully healed about a year after the initial injury. My impinged shoulders, however, finally felt 'back to normal' this year - nearly 4 years after that initial chest problem! And I still have to treat them with kid gloves.

Im sure it would have healed faster had I sought professional help - but what really helped was performing those rotator cuff exercises, and shoulder stretches, before every upper body training day, religiously.

Also, a good 10 min cardio warmup before you train will really help - it gets the blood moving before you train which is essential to prevent injury in circulation challenged areas like the shoulder joint.

Slower, high rep range movements seemed to help as well. I remember reading that a rep range of 12-15 was best for connective tissue repair.

BV
 

IONOI2007

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Made in China...

Probably already known to many including yourself. Did you know that all these supplements come from China? It is near impossible to find anything that did not originate from there.

I was doing way to much web surfing and ran into a number of different forums. That along with a link from Dr. Mercola stating that nearly all vitamins now come from China. Most drug/pharmaceutical companies are following suit. If it can be mass produced in China and then shipped here they still save money.

All protein supplements come from China. I received that information today. A company that I purchased Cissus from stated that they avoided China in the beginning but now they buy from them directly. They state that they do their own independant individual lead, mercury testing and haven't found anything fishy. Its been three years now.

Not that I have anything against global trade but that whole lead in toothpaste/rat poison in the dog food thing made me a little worried. Some companies that make dog also make cereal for human consumption...which means our cereal is coming from China too either directly or indirectly. I suspect its only a matter of time before we find lead in our food.

How deep does the China sydrome actually go...no one knows. Their are even claims that our bread comes from China. It may not be baked in China, but the flour originates from there and the flour is injected with vitamins...from China.

Just some food for thought.
 

IONOI2007

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Update from IONOI

Hey again, well I have finally made it to 6 grams of Cissus today. I had been slowly adding every few days or so. Results for the most part have been scattered. Its early though I want to give it some more time. Some days my chest feels great other days I can still feel in twinge if I move the wrong direction. If I lean over, change a car tire or if I lay on my stomach/chest for any length of time. I have been icing regularly, and hitting the cardio as well. Its never been so painful that I felt I have needed ibuprofen but it bothers me when my chest still clicks during certain, unexpected movements. Is that normal and too be expected? I am still on my first bottle of Cissus. When I go to the gym I spend a lot of time stretching, using cable cross-overs and only very light weights. Cardio for 15 minutes or more. No bench and no dips.
 

IONOI2007

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Hey Big Vrunga

I noticed that you have not replied or posted in a while and I hope that I did not say anything that took you by surprise. Is there another forum that you have been hanging out at? I have been searching for other forums related to Cissus, joint problems, etc. Have you had any negative reaction to Cissus? Have you ever known anyone to lose kidney function from too much Cissus. There were a couple of threads from wary doctors who stated that RapidSlim contains Cissus. Cissus contains high amounts of Vitamin C and Beta-carotene, and other vitamins and mins. Mega-dosing on Cissus could be similar to mega-dosing on any vitamin causing a toxic effect like liver disease. It must sound like I am a worry wart by now. Not that I am mega-dosing I am just curious by nature.
BTW I think some of my chest pain has subsided. I have also become an expert capper, my fiance thinks I am insane.
Hope all is well.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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I noticed that you have not replied or posted in a while and I hope that I did not say anything that took you by surprise. Is there another forum that you have been hanging out at? I have been searching for other forums related to Cissus, joint problems, etc. Have you had any negative reaction to Cissus? Have you ever known anyone to lose kidney function from too much Cissus. There were a couple of threads from wary doctors who stated that RapidSlim contains Cissus. Cissus contains high amounts of Vitamin C and Beta-carotene, and other vitamins and mins. Mega-dosing on Cissus could be similar to mega-dosing on any vitamin causing a toxic effect like liver disease. It must sound like I am a worry wart by now. Not that I am mega-dosing I am just curious by nature.
BTW I think some of my chest pain has subsided. I have also become an expert capper, my fiance thinks I am insane.
Hope all is well.
:) Hey IONI2007 - Cissus has been proven (anectodally) to be a very beneficial supp for most. 'Megadosing' has proven to be not beneficial at all for me - had a negative impact on libido and other that the analgesic effects, most of its anabolic benefits seemed to subside as well.

Sweet spot for me is ~4-6g/day.

LOL your fiance thinks youre insane now...hang out on this forum long enough and you'll be a kitchen chemist in no time:p

BV
 

IONOI2007

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BV new question, if I may.

Hey, I have a new question for you. I read a post of yours on this site back to 2005 where you said you would be on an 8 week cycle at a time with Cissus and then go off for a bit. You said it was due mostly to the fact that no one knows about this stuff.

Do you still follow that routine of 8 weeks on and 8 weeks off? Or something similar. Or have you found that Cissus is no longer a worry in such a regard and you can take it everyday or every other (depending on your workout routine).

These Cissus logs are interesting. Particularly that it goes back years ago and users have continued posting on a regular basis.

Thanks,


James
 

IONOI2007

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Hey BV. Its been a while and I am just checking in. So here is the update. I had tried an inferior Cissus off the shelf and after 4 weeks of no results I gave up. Well there may have been a slight benefit but the overall pain had not subsided greatly. It seemed that just exercising and cardio provided some relief but not enough. So I finally broke down and ordered SuperCissus.
...It might just be a placebo effect in that I wanted it to work so bad, it just had to work. Out of sheer frustration. I took one cap the night it arrived and most of the pain had subsided by the next morning. We are talking 60% gone. The next day I took two caps morning and night and one more right before I worked out. Do you know that I almost did not feel any pain (sternum pain) during the entire work out.
I even felt strong enough to do dips. I have upped it to three caps to ensure that my recovery period would not turn into pain. So far so good. Even picking up my daughter has become a joy again. Its only been three days so I am not going to give it the stamp of approval just yet. But holy crap.
One last thing to note. I have also combined flax, protein and HA into my repertoire. I am greatful for your posts.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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Glad to hear you're getting better bro! That sounds just like Cissus at work right there. Be careful though - at first Cissus will have an analgesic, or pain blocking effect. This doesnt mean everything is totally healed...you still might want to ease into the exercises that you know bother it. Higher reps (12-15) and lighter weight are supposed to be better for soft tissue repair as well.

BV
 

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