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Vicaine - short review

210LBS said:
Yeah but those are people with problems. This doesn't really seem to serve a purpose as a health aid or performance enhancement. It looks like they just combined the names vicodin and caffeine and reached for a really different market than what we are used to. I'm still not really sure what this is for.
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Also, I'd think, or at least hope, that people realize that alcohol and hydrocodone, especially when taken together, are serious business, where a lot of people see an OTC supplement and think that it's inherently safe, non-addicting or habit forming, etc.

Based on the spelling of "VICAINE", it seems like the name may be a combination of VICodin and cocAINE, not VICodin and caffEINE, which would directly be spelled VICEINE, not VICAINE.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Also, I'd think, or at least hope, that people realize that alcohol and hydrocodone, especially when taken together, are serious business, where a lot of people see an OTC supplement and think that it's inherently safe, non-addicting or habit forming, etc.

Based on the spelling of "VICAINE", it seems like the name may be a combination of VICodin and cocAINE, not VICodin and caffEINE, which would directly be spelled VICEINE, not VICAINE.
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Hahah yes sorry... vicodin and cocaine. Nothing unethical here.
 
210LBS said:
Yeah but those are people with problems. This doesn't really seem to serve a purpose as a health aid or performance enhancement. It looks like they just combined the names vicodin and caffeine and reached for a really different market than what we are used to. I'm still not really sure what this is for.
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Helps to promote focus while studying

Helps to alleviate pain

Gives a nice euphoric feeling

Gives me pain relief without the erratic feeling of drunkenness which I get from oxy or hydrocodone

If you're not a user of things such as hydrocodone, oxy, morphine, or any other strong opiod then I really see no use for joe daily.

Aa I stated though I feel much better using 2 caps verses oxycodone.
 
hardknock said:
In this day and age with everyone and their great grandmother ready to hop online and dig up "bedsheet" facts about what celebrity sucked off whom be them gay or straight, I would think that even slightly inquiring minds would simply google the unfamiliar ingredients.

I mean with social media and the internet lynch-mob mentality of people nowaday I would have guessed it was a no brainer to do a quick search for any product.

Something to the effects of:
"Oh wait this product contains blah blah oops oops, let me google that shat so I can start a conspiracy theory or a cyber-lynching"
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You'd be VERY surprised at the number of people who buy/use supplements without doing any research on the ingredients beyond what's on the page that's selling it (online) or what they hear from the person selling it (in a store).
 
hardknock said:
Helps to promote focus while studying

Helps to alleviate pain

Gives a nice euphoric feeling

Gives me pain relief without the erratic feeling of drunkenness which I get from oxy or hydrocodone

If you're not a user of things such as hydrocodone, oxy, morphine, or any other strong opiod then I really see no use for joe daily.

Aa I stated though I feel much better using 2 caps verses oxycodone.
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Honestly, based on the name and even part of the write-up, it seems like most people who would buy it would be looking for a "legal high," for lack of a better way to describe it. Honestly, I think I'd rather, and I do, use kratom over this (although I would strongly advise against using either one daily or even most days of the week), but to each his own I suppose.

Also, what's joe?
 
210LBS said:
Yeah but those are people with problems. This doesn't really seem to serve a purpose as a health aid or performance enhancement. It looks like they just combined the names vicodin and caffeine and reached for a really different market than what we are used to. I'm still not really sure what this is for.
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a pain reliever isn't considered a "health aid" ? look at Tylenol / Advil / Alieve people use them daily- which if abused can damage liver and/or kidneys

I agree the product is not much for performance enhancement.
 
scoooter said:
a pain reliever isn't considered a "health aid" ? look at Tylenol / Advil / Alieve people use them daily- which if abused can damage liver and/or kidneys

I agree the product is not much for performance enhancement.
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Yes IF you suffer from pain. There are tons of prescription drugs that are health aids for medical reasons but that doesn't make them a "health aid" for the average person. This product might be fine for someone suffering from pain, depression and whatever else tianeptine + stimulant might be good for. However, for the average person I would have to seriously question their motives for using this.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Honestly, based on the name and even part of the write-up, it seems like most people who would buy it would be looking for a "legal high," for lack of a better way to describe it. Honestly, I think I'd rather, and I do, use kratom over this (although I would strongly advise against using either one daily or even most days of the week), but to each his own I suppose.

Also, what's joe?
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Joe daily? Im not sure.
But it would be hard for me to believe that the ratio of uneducated users is as high as it was before 2005. With the overwhelming increase in social media and unofficial detectives scurrying around, it simply isnt feasible to believe.

From when I ran my own supplement business circa 05-12, the uneducated user ratio has diminished in my own experiences amongst the area I live.

I remember that it seemed no one knew what creatine was in 2003 when asking me about supplemental vices. However now the average barbershop kid has at least enough vague knowledge to seek out those more educated.

I just cant see someone who knows what an opioid is that would see the words opioid and just take this without any pause. Or lets look at it like this, with the heightened attention to opioid usage in the news everyday, I also because of that, cant see the average joe just blatantly ignore the words opioid written on the front of the bottle.

Or here is another way to look at it. If since 2000 when a lot of supplement scandals started being exposed and the overwhelming majority is still taking random supplements without the slightest bit of pause then why are we even continuing to argue against any supplements that are produced? Its been 17 years and since, as many put it, everyone is ignorant and responsibility is absent then why waste time picking apart anything? Its apparent(to many it seems) that no matter how many educated people expose products it somehow someway promotes malice among those uninformed.

So either scenario that is viewed ends with a "why bother".

The end game is this: an overwhelming majority knows full well what they are taking but they are still taking it as a legal way to skirt the system.
 
210LBS said:
Yes IF you suffer from pain. There are tons of prescription drugs that are health aids for medical reasons but that doesn't make them a "health aid" for the average person. This product might be fine for someone suffering from pain, depression and whatever else tianeptine + stimulant might be good for. However, for the average person I would have to seriously question their motives for using this.
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You really dont have to question their usage though and not to come off as an attack. Some people want to get high without taking prescription meds or illegal methods. There isnt really any question needed for that. Its pretty open and simple.
 
Libertarian here - I'm all for getting high if you want and it's nobodies business as long as you don't hurt another individual. But don't pretend these legal high products are "OTC Dietary Sports Performance" supplements - just sell them along side the 'Vape' stuff. You saw that with Kratom too - if you need Vicaine or Kratom after a workout - you're doing your "health/fitness" shjt all wrong. Reminds of of a way milder, watered down 'Nubain' excuse from the 1990's ;)
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Libertarian here - I'm all for getting high if you want and it's nobodies business as long as you don't hurt another individual. But don't pretend these legal high products are "OTC Dietary Sports Performance" supplements - just sell them along side the 'Vape' stuff. You saw that with Kratom too - if you need Vicaine or Kratom after a workout - you're doing your "health/fitness" shjt all wrong. Reminds of of a way milder, watered down 'Nubain' excuse from the 1990's ;)
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This. The thing is that people seem to treat kratom with the "respect" and caution it deserves, and good sellers will emphasize this. Just my interpretation/perception and $0.02.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Libertarian here - I'm all for getting high if you want and it's nobodies business as long as you don't hurt another individual. But don't pretend these legal high products are "OTC Dietary Sports Performance" supplements - just sell them along side the 'Vape' stuff. You saw that with Kratom too - if you need Vicaine or Kratom after a workout - you're doing your "health/fitness" shjt all wrong. Reminds of of a way milder, watered down 'Nubain' excuse from the 1990's ;)
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Former torn acl and ruptured L5. So no I dont agree at all. If you're dealing with past injuries you need what you need period. Or stop exercising overall which will never be an option for me as its mediation for depression is very helpful.

I dont see anything wrong about that.

But they could easily sell it to an online vape shop if you think that would give it a better position in a different industry.
Obviously I'm not advocating kids take this but I don't advocate kids taking steroids but we've seen how that goes.

EDIT: Clarify: I do agree with your statement on people needing not fool themselves to believe this is a simple OTC supplement.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. The thing is that people seem to treat kratom with the "respect" and caution it deserves, and good sellers will emphasize this. Just my interpretation/perception and $0.02.
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Why is it that people seem to treat Kratom with the respect it deserves?

And, so you are saying that these guys are sinister because they didn't mention that tianep can be addicting?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Libertarian here - I'm all for getting high if you want and it's nobodies business as long as you don't hurt another individual. But don't pretend these legal high products are "OTC Dietary Sports Performance" supplements - just sell them along side the 'Vape' stuff. You saw that with Kratom too - if you need Vicaine or Kratom after a workout - you're doing your "health/fitness" shjt all wrong. Reminds of of a way milder, watered down 'Nubain' excuse from the 1990's ;)
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Great post!!
 
hardknock said:
Why is it that people seem to treat Kratom with the respect it deserves?

And, so you are saying that these guys are sinister because they didn't mention that tianep can be addicting?
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Sinister is your word, not mine. I think it's irresponsible, but that's not necessarily the same thing.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Sinister is your word, not mine. I think it's irresponsible, but that's not necessarily the same thing.
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Yes, I agree that was a bit over the top, my apologies.
But, why do you think that Kratom is used with more responsibility?
 
hardknock said:
You really dont have to question their usage though and not to come off as an attack. Some people want to get high without taking prescription meds or illegal methods. There isnt really any question needed for that. Its pretty open and simple.
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I'm glad you found a product that helps you with your injury. And that's fine that people want to get high - I'm no stranger of liquor and marijuana myself. All I'm saying is that we should not be naive about who and how this product is marketed. To me, simply combining vicodin and cocaine into the name screams they would be thrilled to attract random high schoolers and college kids and get them hooked. But perhaps that is not a fair judgement of the company.
 
210LBS said:
I'm glad you found a product that helps you with your injury. And that's fine that people want to get high - I'm no stranger of liquor and marijuana myself. All I'm saying is that we should not be naive about who and how this product is marketed. To me, simply combining vicodin and cocaine into the name screams they would be thrilled to attract random high schoolers and college kids and get them hooked. But perhaps that is not a fair judgement of the company.
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This I agree with. It is a bit irresponsible to bait people with that name scheme, especially since many teenagers would be trying to purchase it.

But, as I stated for myself, I feel much better using this (except the caffeine disrupts my stomach, which I why I do not like caffeine over 60mg) but better for me than using any of my oxy, tramadol, hydrocodone, etc and hell of a lot better in terms of daily production than when I had to use morphine (pure zombie land there).

Tramadol from that list is the only thing I use now after exercising but I've used Vicaine for 4 training sessions and I've felt "better" so to speak. The only issue i have experienced is when doing sparring sessions @ 3 caps, the nausea is too much but that may be because caffeine makes me sick to the stomach anyway.
 
hardknock said:
Yes, I agree that was a bit over the top, my apologies.
But, why do you think that Kratom is used with more responsibility?
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Not everyone uses kratom responsibly, but people tend to be aware of the nature of it. Some of this is likely due to significant media attention recently, and some of it is because people are using it in place of more dangerous substances. Kratom doesn't have the hyperbolic and sensational name that Vicaine does, and you don't really see products combining kratom with stimulants, for good reason, as that seems to indicate that the main purpose would be just a legal high.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Not everyone uses kratom responsibly, but people tend to be aware of the nature of it. Some of this is likely due to significant media attention recently, and some of it is because people are using it in place of more dangerous substances. Kratom doesn't have the hyperbolic and sensational name that Vicaine does, and you don't really see products combining kratom with stimulants, for good reason, as that seems to indicate that the main purpose would be just a legal high.
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I tend to agree with your assessment.

Personally I've never gotten any benefit from Kratom and that is even when purchasing from any of the "top" 5 stores people always talked about.
 
hardknock said:
I tend to agree with your assessment.

Personally I've never gotten any benefit from Kratom and that is even when purchasing from any of the "top" 5 stores people always talked about.
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So far I really like it for improving sociability and mood, but that's all I'm really using it for, and also don't want to use it daily.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Libertarian here - I'm all for getting high if you want and it's nobodies business as long as you don't hurt another individual. But don't pretend these legal high products are "OTC Dietary Sports Performance" supplements - just sell them along side the 'Vape' stuff. You saw that with Kratom too - if you need Vicaine or Kratom after a workout - you're doing your "health/fitness" shjt all wrong. Reminds of of a way milder, watered down 'Nubain' excuse from the 1990's ;)
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Dude....lol, my buddies were 'Bain heads back in the day. Don't hear anybody talk about Bain anymore
 
This is an incredibly irresponsible product, and totally illegal to sell as a dietary supplement. Tianeptine is a prescription drug with the tradename Stablon, dosed 12.5 milligrams, three times a day. The tianeptine dose in this product will absolutely lead to dependence, withdrawals, and tolerance. Selling non-naturally occurring chemicals as dietary supplements is against the law, (21 U.S.C. § 331), and "mislabeled drugs" is no small crime. Being in the industry, I've seen other shady "supplement" companies go down from this. What an awful company.
 
It doesn't have to be prescription in the US. Its legal as a research chemical. If it's not found in nature, and marketed for human consumption, it is misbranded. Plus, the doses are just ****ed.
 
elabor said:
It doesn't have to be prescription in the US. Its legal as a research chemical. If it's not found in nature, and marketed for human consumption, it is misbranded. Plus, the doses are just ****ed.
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I'm definitely not disagreeing with you there.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Man, I was trying to avoid learning about a whole new category - but now you piqued my interest :D
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No shyt....I love reading about other peoples dumb shyt. Brings great amusement!
 
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