# update: Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs MK677 (similar to 3.4 iu GH)

#### tregar

##### Member
Overview of my research thus far:
IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 ------- 67 to 205 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for older adults ----------------- 59 to 225 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for young adults is ------------ 116 to 358 ng/ml igf-1

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Pharm grade HGH from China = 380 ng/ml-------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
new year:
3-18-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = 327 ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of 100 points, (2-22-19 thru 3-18-19 thus far)

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (level at 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu Pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu Pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me. Used 8 months from March - Oct 2019.

2-3-20, baseline igf-1 = 229 ng/ml igf-1------------------------------------------new baseline

2-24-20, began mk677 early morning dosage again (25mg), will take a blood reading in 4 weeks.

(1) baseline from 4-6-18 = 227
(2) baseline from 2-3-20 = 229
(3) Chinese Pharm grade GH, 4-11-18 on 4iu after 2 days = 380
(4) 2 weeks on mk677, 4-25-18 = 372 (nearly 150 point increase only lasts approx 2 weeks due to body kicking in self-regulating system)
(5) 6 months on mk677, 9-17-18 = 322
(6) 8 months on mk677, 11-2-18 = 304 (levels begin to drop from peak after 6 months just like in the study)
(7) 1 month on mk677, 3-18-19 = 327 (this 100 point increase is the level that is seen after 1 month, and also at 6 months)

Damn son!!

#### tregar

##### Member
short FAQ:

(1)
"how much mk677 were you running"
25mg in the morning, first thing with coffee. I measure the powder out with a \$100 gpr-20 AWS 20gx0.001g scale (best scale on the market). Highly recommend starting off at only 15mg, then raising your dose by 5mg every 3 days till you reach 25mg, as it is quite powerful, this allows better adjustment. Do this even if you have taken a long break from it, then on resume. I feel the anti-aging effects the very same day & every day thereafter: nootropic wellness, great mood & energy, sleep great but my sleep was already good. Literally the next day all the muscles feel & look full and all day pump. Feel like an 18 year old in the gym even though I am age 50...endurance and recovery ability is enhanced and studies on older adults have shown a 30% increase in strength over time with mk677 in leg press studies done on older adults. Collagen synthesis is increased, so your joints will thank you while on mk677, never had any joint issues while on it, and I lift heavy and only use test cyp/dianabol so joints can get dry normally. I stay on TRT year round. My first blast in several years was for 2 months recently going up to 600mg test cyp. I can not help you if you are one of the people that experience tiredness or lethargy from the compound. I am just the opposite, and experience increased well-being and energy with it, no lethargy at all. If you do experience tiredness maybe try a lower dose (10mg) or use HGH instead, peptides, or nothing at all.

Hunger pains die down a couple weeks into the mk677 cycle. I only use it for 6 to 7 months total, as then the levels begin to fall from the peak (just like the graph from the older adults mk677 study below). This I do to keep sensitivity at a maximum.

Possible hypertension and water retention is real just like with HGH, blood pressure while on a cycle of 600mg test cyp and then adding 25mg mk677 will raise BP slightly but I have noticed that if you stay on a year round ketogenic diet (Palumbo bodybuilder's high protein keto diet) that the water retention is minimal, bloating is greatly minimized, whereas if you eat significantly over 25g of carbs daily, the water retention will be quite a bit more. This mk677 compound is great for those on a keto diet. I stay just as strong on a keto diet as with a diet of carbs, and look just as great and full. Garlique, beet root extract, olive leaf extract, and celery seed extract are great herbs that all work to keep blood pressure 20 points lower in case your blood pressure should rise a little bit from the water retention, but again, the water retention is very minimal on a keto diet, with carbs it's a different story. I do take in 2 to 3 tablespoons of crunchy peanut butter for source of carbs and calories 1 hour pre-workout, this keeps workouts high strength and energy, this is known as "targeted keto diet" where carbs are introduced pre-workout for performance.

The importance of protein on the Palumbo keto diet: Where the Palumbo diet differs is in its insistence on elevated protein intake. Bodybuilding requires a high protein intake to build muscle mass. For most bodybuilders that means multiplying their body weight by 1.5 to get the number of grams of protein they should be consuming daily (for a 180 lb person then that would be 180 x 1.5 = 270, or 270 grams of protein daily). By consuming adequate amounts of protein, you prevent muscle tissue from being used as fuel.

Other dietary requirements of the Palumbo plan call for consuming .5 grams of fat for each pound of body weight.

Fast keto meal on the run: There is a Chipotle near my gym, so on the way home, I grab a bowl with "just 2 servings of chicken" (60g protein) and no other ingredients, and they only charge you for 2 sides of meat, then I add a side of avacado in a container, and total cost is only \$7, cheap. Freebirds will let you make a seasoned chicken bowl with 3 servings of chicken for only \$7.50 where I includes fajita vegetables and avacado on a keto diet. Keto diet is fun, you can eat flank steak cooked in fajita veggies (frozen onions & peppers mix from grocery store), whole chicken, sausage, whole eggs, cheese, avacado, protein shakes with 2 to 3 tablespoons of heavy whipping cream (no carb) for great flavor. Daily I also eat a mix of almonds and pecans (limit to 25 total) for extra potassium and minerals which you can also get from frozen spinach. Costco has very good flank steak, I buy two packs every 2 weeks. Fiber is a must in the morning on the diet.

(2)
"did you track blood glucose levels during the GH and MK runs? MK tends to really elevate my fasted BG levels...but GH dosed in the AM hasn't done it so far and I've been running mauve tops for 4 of the last 6 months."

7 months in while taking it, I had labs done, mk677 had no detrimental effects on my insulin, glucose, A1c, etc.

Labs from Sept 26, 2018:

Insulin 8.2 uU/ml , normal, low =2.6, high = 24.9
Glucose: 89.0 mg/dl, normal, low = 70, high = 99
HbA1c: 5.1%, normal, low = 4.0, high = 5.6

Recommend you take 300mg of +R-ALA (Dr. Danielle Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid (R-ALA)R- ALA 120 Capsules) before every meal x 3 times a day to help counteract and even improve insulin sensitivity while on either HGH or mk677, as yes, both will lower insulin sensitivity a bit, but this can be improved considerably with +R alpha lipoic acid, p.s. I get no hearburn from the above formula, best I have tried, and I have tried 3 different brands. I was not taking +R-ALA during the months the lab was taken above, but have since added it this year during my 7 month of the year mk677 25mg a day cycle.

Liver values also normal after 7 months of use:

ALT 26.0 u/L, normal, low =7, high =56.0
AST 21.0 u/L normal, low = 5, high = 35

Notes:
A few pages about mk677 in the book "Grow Young with HGH" by Klatz too.
Also covered on page 360 of the "Anabolics 2006 anabolic steroid ref manual" by William Llewellyn.
hxxps://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/

Keep bloating minimal with a keto diet while on mk677, articles for those interested:

How to Build Muscle on the Ketogenic Diet: An Interview with bodybuilder Luis Villaseñor of Ketogains:
hxxps://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-build-muscle-on-the-ketogenic-diet-an-interview-with-luis-villase%C3%B1or-of-ketogains-33ff65155740

The bodybuilder's Palumbo keto diet:
hxxps://www.ketogenicsupplementreviews.com/blog/the-palumbo-keto-diet/

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#### KingAnt

##### Member
I apologize if you already answered these questions. But did you see growth from the mk-677?
Do you believe it's an affordable and comparable alternative to gh ?
And did you keep your gains?

#### ValiantThor08

I apologize if you already answered these questions. But did you see growth from the mk-677?
Do you believe it's an affordable and comparable alternative to gh ?
And did you keep your gains?
Compared to GH it is affordable. Significantly cheaper and more convenient than injecting GH.

#### ValiantThor08

I apologize if you already answered these questions. But did you see growth from the mk-677?
Do you believe it's an affordable and comparable alternative to gh ?
And did you keep your gains?
Compared to GH it is affordable. Significantly cheaper and more convenient than injecting GH.

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
So apparently anything will impose sides on me sooner or later...

Anyone else get hypotension like symptoms from mk677? Lethargy accompanied by vertigos and shortness of breath.

I got lethargy before from mk but now i also get vertigos and shortness of breath.

Of course it could also be sth else.

Been taking 10mg before bed last few days but i am also eating 1 grapefruit every day which is known to slow down drug metabolism so idk, it may be as if i am taking a much larger dose.

And I believe i went slightly hypo during yesterday's workout. Cant tell if it was my usual anxiety or not, but i started shaking and felt so weak and short of breath (but spo2 was 99% so it is not a lung issue) that i couldnt finish the workout.

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#### Sheriff Morri

##### Member
I’m been taking 60mg EOD and zero sides mate. Goes to show some folk are unfortunate.

#### ValiantThor08

I’m been taking 60mg EOD and zero sides mate. Goes to show some folk are unfortunate.
Why 60mg EOD?

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
Also, does anyone else get a little of an increase in body temperature?
Like 37C instead of usual 36.5C?

This stuff makes me crave sugar like no other and cranks my metabolism up i can easily eat 25% more and i will still shed fat and water. The more sugar i eat, more heat my body seems to produce.

Was lethargic af whole day and now i ate a bunch of sugar and bananas. My face is all red and i have so much energy.

For some reason, mk also dries me the f out. I get veiny.

#### Sheriff Morri

##### Member
Why 60mg EOD?
it was suggested to me that HGH would be taken EOD rather than ED although the dosage would remain the same. So it would be doubled up on the days it’s taken. As this compound is pretty much oral HGH I have opted for this protocol.

I have tried the 5 on 2 off and the 8 on 4 off.

so far I have seen better results with EOD procedure.

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
it was suggested to me that HGH would be taken EOD rather than ED although the dosage would remain the same. So it would be doubled up on the days it’s taken. As this compound is pretty much oral HGH I have opted for this protocol.

I have tried the 5 on 2 off and the 8 on 4 off.

so far I have seen better results with EOD procedure.
Interesting. Better results as in? Recovery, fat loss, sleep?

#### Sheriff Morri

##### Member
Interesting. Better results as in? Recovery, fat loss, sleep?
All the above buddy except fat loss. I run 5 miles each workout before my weights. I haven’t changed my calorie intake and I have still managed to increase my muscle set. The compound is bloody genius. I don’t really see it aiding fat loss if I’m honest. However it will help maintain and increase muscle set even in a calorie deficit.

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
Me personally i get flat and dry on this stuff. I simply dump the water.

In fact i have to up my intake of potassium otherwise i feel tired af.

Couple of bananas and i feel normal again.

#### tregar

##### Member
I prefer using it with normal TRT doses to extend my strength, recovery & recuperation. I'm just coming off an 8 week 600mg test cyp, and just added the mk677 to work in conjuction with my normal 200mg of test. The blood pressure increase is only minimal and the expected 5 to 10 point increase. I have NO problems with it, side effect free and makes this 50 year old feel like an 18 year old in the gym. Best nootropic and anti-aging all in one using your body's own restricted HGH and igf-1 due to age caused somatostain. Works wonders on a day in day out high protein ketogenic diet where my carbs are kept lower than 30g a day. Carbohydrate intolerance is a thing of the past when on keto.

#### Sheriff Morri

##### Member
I’ve been running it for 3 months and got my blood sugars back at 7.3. Keeping in mind this wasn’t fasted glucose test. So I’m more than happy that it isn’t effecting my insulin sensitivity which was my only real concern.

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
I prefer using it with normal TRT doses to extend my strength, recovery & recuperation. I'm just coming off an 8 week 600mg test cyp, and just added the mk677 to work in conjuction with my normal 200mg of test. The blood pressure increase is only minimal and the expected 5 to 10 point increase. I have NO problems with it, side effect free and makes this 50 year old feel like an 18 year old in the gym. Best nootropic and anti-aging all in one using your body's own restricted HGH and igf-1 due to age caused somatostain. Works wonders on a day in day out high protein ketogenic diet where my carbs are kept lower than 30g a day. Carbohydrate intolerance is a thing of the past when on keto.
Yes, i wanted to make this remark.

although it gives me anxiety, it seems like my mind is sharper. I notice subtle details that otherwise i wouldnt.

#### tregar

##### Member
In my experience, and in the person's experience who wrote the article linked to below, the blood pressure increase (5 to 10 points) is only apparent during the first two weeks of mk677 therapy when water retention is at it's highest, the water retention dies down quite a bit after 2 weeks, and BP returns to normal. Remember that during the first two weeks, HGH and igf-1 levels with mk677 can reach the same effect of 4iu of pharm grade HGH from China, after 2 weeks the body kicks in a self regulatory system (this was shown in the beagles dog study on mk677, and with my own bloodwork studies) that keep it from getting no higher than around 3.5iu of pharm grade HGH, or around the level produced by a gifted 18 year old.

Another good paper on mk677: https://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/
hxxps://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/

Unlike the author however, I experience no lethargy with mk677, rather increased energy and nootropic sense of well-being all day long when I take it in the morning with coffee. He does however give a pointer for those who do experience lethargy, suggesting taking a dose right before bed to help to offset that a bit.

In a 2 month study on 24 healthy obese men using 25 mg of MK-677 per day, 3 kg (6 lbs) of lean muscle mass was gained in the MK-677 treated group compared to the placebo group. According to a DEXA scan, total body fat did not change during the study, equating to a gain of 6.62 pounds of muscle in the MK-677 treated group (some/much of which could be water).[R].

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#### ValiantThor08

In my experience, and in the person's experience who wrote the article linked to below, the blood pressure increase (5 to 10 points) is only apparent during the first two weeks of mk677 therapy when water retention is at it's highest, the water retention dies down quite a bit after 2 weeks, and BP returns to normal. Remember that during the first two weeks, HGH and igf-1 levels with mk677 can reach the same effect of 4iu of pharm grade HGH from China, after 2 weeks the body kicks in a self regulatory system (this was shown in the beagles dog study on mk677, and with my own bloodwork studies) that keep it from getting no higher than around 3.5iu of pharm grade HGH, or around the level produced by a gifted 18 year old.

Another good paper on mk677: https://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/
hxxps://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/

Unlike the author however, I experience no lethargy with mk677, rather increased energy and nootropic sense of well-being all day long when I take it in the morning with coffee. He does however give a pointer for those who do experience lethargy, suggesting taking a dose right before bed to help to offset that a bit.

In a 2 month study on 24 healthy obese men using 25 mg of MK-677 per day, 3 kg (6 lbs) of lean muscle mass was gained in the MK-677 treated group compared to the placebo group. According to a DEXA scan, total body fat did not change during the study, equating to a gain of 6.62 pounds of muscle in the MK-677 treated group [R].
View attachment 191867
MK causes the body to output GH levels of a healthy 18 year old, but upon that, is GH bleed a thing? Does it also increase frequency of that output in a day? Also, regarding the 2 month study, cannot water show up on a scan as lean mass gain, skewing results?

#### CroLifter

##### Well-known member
I never got any bloat from mk677.

#### ValiantThor08

Getting my IGF levels tested Mon. Will have been 2 weeks in MK677.

#### tregar

##### Member
Look forward to hearing your results Valiantthor08! You don't have to worry about GH bleed, it has never been mentioned in any studies, that is term datbtrue used to refer to when talking about certain peptides back in the day, possibly cjc-1295. And yes, the intracellular water in the muscles can show up as lean muscle in the study above posted.

1) I'll be back one last time one week from now to post 4 week igf-1 levels after being on for one month, this being the 3rd year of use of mk677 for 7 months at a time (spring and summer mk677 use during the time when I visit the water park with season pass from March till Sept).

2) As stated in the studies, mk677 has extremely good nitrogen retention, and one of the reasons I like it alot as I typically fast after 3pm till 8am the next morning. I still get in my 220g of protein during the meals from breakfast till my last meal at 3pm. I also run at 4pm till 4:20pm on my off days from the gym, as well as stay on a high protein Palumbo keto diet year round. This all done to keep body fat around 13%. Insulin sensitivity is not as good as it was when I was younger, when I did not have to worry about diet or ever going above 13% fat. The mk677's nitrogen retention effects I have noticed helps me retain muscle and keeps me still often gaining in the gym even in a calorie deficit (so long as you keep your protein near or above 1.2g per lb of lean mass), just as Sheriff Mori mentions here:

"I run 5 miles each workout before my weights. I haven’t changed my calorie intake and I have still managed to increase my muscle set. The compound is bloody genius. I don’t really see it aiding fat loss if I’m honest. However it will help maintain and increase muscle set even in a calorie deficit."

Even though I was on a cycle of 600mg test cyp for the first time in 3 years during the past 2 months, I came off in 2 weeks ago, I had some pretty dramatic effects in the weight room while OFF the cycle just on 200mg a week TRT and 2 weeks after introducing the mk677 again, able to 2-hand press 80lb dumbbell behind head for triceps x 8 times, something I was not able to accomplish while on cycle, only making it to 75lbs. My bench press also felt much easier at my highest weight, and easily knocked out 8 reps of 225 when I used to struggle after 6 reps. This statement from Derek in the above article at platesanddates rings true in his section on "Mk677 review":

"I have used MK-677 a few times over the past couple years now, each time the results have been fairly dramatic, even while on moderate dosages of anabolic steroids."

3) The water retention & hunger pains during the first two weeks are noticeable, but after 2 weeks, I am always back to normal on the water retention and hunger pains die down to normal, allowing me to easily stay in calorie deficit if I so choose. The mk677 also works extremely well for those like myself on a year round high protein keto diet where carbs are kept below 30g most days (except for some carbs pre-workout for performance). I recommend taking a cap of +R-ALA (search amazon) before your 3 biggest meals to help keep your insulin sensitivity top notch. + R-ala has been proven to be even more effective then metformin. The studies don't lie on +r-ala, they are all over the web.

#### ValiantThor08

Look forward to hearing your results Valiantthor08! You don't have to worry about GH bleed, it has never been mentioned in any studies, that is term datbtrue used to refer to when talking about certain peptides back in the day, possibly cjc-1295. And yes, the intracellular water in the muscles can show up as lean muscle in the study above posted.

1) I'll be back one last time one week from now to post 4 week igf-1 levels after being on for one month, this being the 3rd year of use of mk677 for 7 months at a time (spring and summer mk677 use during the time when I visit the water park with season pass from March till Sept).

2) As stated in the studies, mk677 has extremely good nitrogen retention, and one of the reasons I like it alot as I typically fast after 3pm till 8am the next morning. I still get in my 220g of protein during the meals from breakfast till my last meal at 3pm. I also run at 4pm till 4:20pm on my off days from the gym, as well as stay on a high protein Palumbo keto diet year round. This all done to keep body fat around 13%. Insulin sensitivity is not as good as it was when I was younger, when I did not have to worry about diet or ever going above 13% fat. The mk677's nitrogen retention effects I have noticed helps me retain muscle and keeps me still often gaining in the gym even in a calorie deficit (so long as you keep your protein near or above 1.2g per lb of lean mass), just as Sheriff Mori mentions here:

"I run 5 miles each workout before my weights. I haven’t changed my calorie intake and I have still managed to increase my muscle set. The compound is bloody genius. I don’t really see it aiding fat loss if I’m honest. However it will help maintain and increase muscle set even in a calorie deficit."

Even though I was on a cycle of 600mg test cyp for the first time in 3 years during the past 2 months, I came off in 2 weeks ago, I had some pretty dramatic effects in the weight room while OFF the cycle just on 200mg a week TRT and 2 weeks after introducing the mk677 again, able to 2-hand press 80lb dumbbell behind head for triceps x 8 times, something I was not able to accomplish while on cycle, only making it to 75lbs. My bench press also felt much easier at my highest weight, and easily knocked out 8 reps of 225 when I used to struggle after 6 reps. This statement from Derek in the above article at platesanddates rings true in his section on "Mk677 review":

"I have used MK-677 a few times over the past couple years now, each time the results have been fairly dramatic, even while on moderate dosages of anabolic steroids."

3) The water retention & hunger pains during the first two weeks are noticeable, but after 2 weeks, I am always back to normal on the water retention and hunger pains die down to normal, allowing me to easily stay in calorie deficit if I so choose. The mk677 also works extremely well for those like myself on a year round high protein keto diet where carbs are kept below 30g most days (except for some carbs pre-workout for performance). I recommend taking a cap of +R-ALA (search amazon) before your 3 biggest meals to help keep your insulin sensitivity top notch. + R-ala has been proven to be even more effective then metformin. The studies don't lie on +r-ala, they are all over the web.
I also got NAC and ALA. Regular ALA, will that still be effective?

#### tregar

##### Member
I will recite the studies when I get back home as to why +r-ala is more effective than regular, although it is more expensive, this is very good stuff for around \$15. R+ALA has no burning sensation in digestive track, and the +R form is the form proven more effective than metformin in studies.

Allmax Nutrition, R+ALA, 60 Capsules

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) Part 2 by Derek Charlebois

September 24, 2018 • 4 min read

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) has been getting a lot of attention lately. Making more and more people try it. From what I read and what other people have told me, ALA sounds like a great supplement.

Before we get into ALA, let's take a look at what happens to food when it enters the body.

A normal meal:

Food is consumed.
This food is converted into glucose for energy.
Insulin is released by the pancreas to shuttle the glucose into muscle and fat cells (assuming liver glycogen levels are full). Once the muscle cells are full, all excess glucose is shuttled to fat cells.

Now let's look at a meal taken with ALA:

Food is consumed.
This food is converted into glucose for energy.
Insulin is released by the pancreas to shuttle the glucose into muscle and fat cells. Once the muscle cells are full, all excess glucose is shuttled to fat cells.

Now this is where ALA comes into play. In order for glucose to be carried into cells, it must be attached to insulin. ALA is shown to have an insulin mimicking effect. So then more glucose would be shuttled to fat cells because the muscle cells are full, right? Wrong! Studies show that ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. This means more glucose can be shuttled into muscle cells and away from fat cells. Studies show that the amount of glucose shuttled to your muscles can increase from 50-60%. For those who are not that good in math: This means if you ate 100 carbs and originally without ALA, 40 grams of glucose went to your muscles cells and the rest, 60 grams, went to fat cells. Now, by supplementing with ALA, you have the power to send 60 grams of glucose and only 40 to fat cells. That is a big difference! How you ask.

Insulin Effect

ALA has an insulin like effect. It does not take the place of insulin, only mimics it. (To learn about insulin and its effects you can read my Insulin article). ALA has been shown to increase glucose uptake by mimicking insulin and shuttling it to Glut-4 receptors as mentioned above. Because ALA has increased the number of Glut-4 receptors on the outside of the muscle, more glucose can be absorbed.

Effects of Increased Glucose Uptake

This increase of glucose does many positive things. These include:

Increased pump
Less fat accumulation
Increases Amino Acid transport
Increases creatine
Increased insulin sensitivity

Increased Pump

The increased pump is due to the increase in glucose uptake. Not only does this feel great, but it also contributes to muscle growth. By increasing the muscle cells volume, but nutrients are able to be shuttled to the muscle. Hence increased muscle growth.
Less Fat Accumulation

Again, due to the increase in glucose uptake by muscles cells, less glucose is stored as fat. ALA also lowers one's blood sugar levels, creating a more suitable atmosphere for fat burning.

Increased Amino Acid and Creatine Uptake

This comes back to the increased pump. Because the muscle cells are in an enlarged state, more amino acids and creatine can reach them. Insulin increases amino acid and creatine uptake. Remember, ALA mimics insulin, which means it also increases amino acid and creatine uptake. There are a ton of creatine products on the market that are loaded with sugar. This is because sugar causes an insulin spike, which carries the creatine to muscle cells. The problem with this is an excess amount of sugar with cause you to gain fat. By supplementing with ALA you can carry more creatine to muscle cells without swallowing 75+ grams of sugar. I still recommend taking a simple sugary carb after your workout, but ALA can increase creatine uptake while you take a lower amount of sugar. This is very important for those who are cutting. They can get the same effects post workout without having to worry about storing excess carbs as fat.

Increased Insulin Sensitivity

This is great news for bodybuilders! When I go on a bulking cycle. I find that about after two months, my gains slow drastically. One way to combat this is to go on a brief cutting cycle to and your insulin sensitivity rebuild. Supplementing with ALA could allow you to add more mass as a result of your insulin sensitivity not reducing.

Results During Cutting vs. Bulking

Results will differ depends on your diet. If you are bulking, you can expect to less fat and more muscle gain because of ALA nutrient partitioning effect.

Results from cutting are increased fat loss and a muscle sparing effect. Because your muscles are storing more glucose, your muscles will not become as depleted as they usually do when cutting. This helps you look full and not flat.

Dosage (per day)

200-600 mg will increase insulin sensitivity and lower blood glucose levels. Lower than 200 mg won't give you noticeable effects, except for ALA antioxidant properties. 600 mg-1200 mg will give you an increase in #1 1200-2000 will give you an increase in #1 and more noticeable fat loss. 3000 mg is "said" (Not a fact, just what has worked best for ALA users) to be the ideal dose to assist in massive fat loss, increase in insulin sensitivity, and increasing glucose.

I got these doses from experienced ALA users and other information I've read. They are a general ranges. It is best to divide you dosages up throughout the day. For example, if you are taking 1000 mg a day. You could take:

300 mg with breakfast
200 mg with a carb meal
300 mg post workout
200 mg with last meal

When buying ALA, you have to be careful. ALA is very unstable and rapidly degrades when exposed to the outside atmosphere. Some people think that as long as it is not exposed to atmospheric conditions for extended periods of time, it will be fine. But even a brief period of time can cause massive degeneration of the product. That is why it is not wise to buy ALA in powder form. It is most likely useless. An especially big no-no is buying creatine products with ALA already in them. The only thing you are paying for is the creatine, because there isn't any ALA in those tubs. The solution, buy ALA in capsules! Most companies are very careful when capping their ALA. AST, for example, uses ALA that is vacuum packed in UV protected plastic. Therefore, I do not recommend buying ALA from no name companies. I'm not saying their ALA is not quality ALA, but it's your money and I know I'd rather play it safe.

Well there is what ALA can do for you. In my next article, we will look at different tests and scientific data that backs up what is stated above.
Click to expand...

The R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.
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Here is some data below that backs up Dereck's article.

hxxp://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464

In conclusion, our data suggest that α-lipoic acid stimulates glucose uptake by translocating and regulating the intrinsic activity of GLUT4 (Fig. 8). The latter effect may be mediated by stimulating the p38 MAPK or a closely related SB202190- and SB203580-sensitive target. Collectively, these results further support a role of α-lipoic acid as an antidiabetic agent in the treatment of diabetes (1).

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (1).

(1) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

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#### ValiantThor08

I will recite the studies when I get back home as to why +r-ala is more effective than regular, although it is more expensive, this is very good stuff:

+R-ALA by Dr.Danielle around \$30 for 120 caps.
I know that regular ALA is a combo of natural ALA and synthetic, and the synthetic does not work in the body, but the price is so much cheaper .

#### ValiantThor08

Turning 30 in April. IGF levels seem low considering I'm on MK677?

#### tregar

##### Member
Thanks for posting your levels ValiantThor08! Everyone will have different levels. Still looks good, perhaps take a baseline next-time so you can see where you are coming from, here are some levels from others:

MK677:
---------
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"

One month in on 3rd year of mk677, and I am at my best strength in the gym, I am at the same level of strength just on regular TRT (test at 200mg a week) + mk677 25mg in morning as where I was at on a 600mg test cyp a week/no mk677! I am very impressed. Only other thing I can compare it with is dianabol, just like what derrick mentions in his article at moreplatesmoredates on mk677. All weights are up from chest, triceps, shoulders to back/biceps and legs. very impressed. My protein is also at 220g a day.

The pumps are insane in the gym especially with the mk677 combined with Arachidonic acid (1400mg taken right before workout with coffee)...The pumps and soreness is unbelievable. Highly recommend taking arachidonic acid on workout days only right before your workout...you will not believe the pumps just like in their reviews at amazon. Stuides have also proven many more added lbs of lean muscle pass per month compared to placebo for those using the arachionic acid.

"Thirty college-aged men were recruited for the study, and randomized into two groups. The men in the first group were given 1,500 mg of ARA daily, and the other an identical-looking placebo. All men followed a periodized resistance-training program for 8 weeks. At the end of the study, the group supplementing ARA reported significantly greater gains in lean body mass (3.6 lbs. vs. 0.2 lbs.). They also noticed an 88% greater increase in muscle thickness (.47 cm vs. .25 cm), and added significantly more strength to bench press and leg press (110 lbs. vs. 76 lbs.). Lastly, wingate peak anaerobic power was dramatically improved with ARA (78W vs. 28W), a 275% greater increase."

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#### ValiantThor08

Thanks for posting your levels ValiantThor08! Everyone will have different levels. Still looks good, perhaps take a baseline next-time so you can see where you are coming from.
I have ordered and received MK from MAResearch, to see if maybe it's a source issue. Received today. Will take tonight instead of what I was taking.

#### tregar

##### Member
ValiantThor08 said "I have ordered and received MK from MAResearch, to see if maybe it's a source issue. Received today. Will take tonight instead of what I was taking."

sounds good ValiantThor08! Keep us updated with your future bloodwork.

ONLY the +R-ala form is the form proven more effective then metformin, regular r-ala does not even come close. Cheap +R-ala with reviews: Allmax Nutrition, R+ALA, 60 Capsules (only 150mg) google it. However, your best deal is still R-ALA from Dr. Danielle (amazon) which is 120 caps which contains 300mg +r-ala for under thirty dollars.

The R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

How +R-ala is better than metformin:

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (1).

(1) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

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#### PCYeti

##### New member
ValiantThor08 said "I have ordered and received MK from MAResearch, to see if maybe it's a source issue. Received today. Will take tonight instead of what I was taking."

sounds good ValiantThor08! Keep us updated with your future bloodwork.

ONLY the +R-ala form is the form proven more effective then metformin, regular r-ala does not even come close. Cheap +R-ala with reviews: Allmax Nutrition, R+ALA, 60 Capsules (only 150mg) google it. However, your best deal is still R-ALA from Dr. Danielle (amazon) which is 120 caps which contains 300mg +r-ala for under thirty dollars.

The R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

How +R-ala is better than metformin:

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (1).

(1) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471
I used MK from MA Research (25 mg per day split into two doses) and my IGF-1 levels came in at 185 (Reference range 52 -- 328 - quest). Prior to using MK I used Ipamorlin and Mod GRF (3x daily ... dosage escapes me, but I followed what I believe was a standard protocol) and my IGF was 265 (reference range 75 --- 216 - Labcorp).

Most recently I've been using Supreme Labs MK -- same protocol - 25 mg split into two doses. Labs came back after being on for 6 weeks -- IGF 199 (Reference range 52 --- 328 - quest).

1. I never bloated, hungry, or tired on MK from MA Research or Supreme.
2. Body fat didn't drop on MK, but did, some what noticeably drop on the peptides.
3. I either don't respond to MK, or, an equally likely possibility, the MK I purchased was underdosed at best, and, well, you can figure out what the worst case would be.