upcoming cycle thoughts and support required im confused

[Mzakif]

Hi all,

I’m 42 years old male, with over 5 years lifting experience none stop, ran one cycle only it was 8 weeks 1,4 andro and epiandro with proper cycle support and pct. its logged here on AM.
Current weight 145lbs
Body fat percentage is about 14 to 15%
Finished this cycle PCT on November 2018
Objective is to gain as much as possible lean mass and hopefully have lower fat percentage
Gains was below expectation and I believe that due to running most of the cycle on low caloric intake.


•1 Brawn Epi 10mg x 120 Caps (2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol - 10mg per cap)
•4 Fusion supplements: Androtest 90 capsules
•2 RPN Havoc 2A, 3A-EPITHIO-17A-METHYL-5A-ADROSTAN-17B-OL 10mg per cap
•2 Fusion supplements nanodrol msten
•Olympus labs ar1macare pro Old version
•Olympus labs sup3r pct old version
•Tudca
•Clomid and nolva for pct
•Arimidex as an AI

Which is better
Run 6 weeks msten cycle dosed 0.5ml twice a day the after pct and off time equivalent to on cycle and PCT start 6 weeks epistane will start with 30mg the up dose to 40 mg depending on sides
Or
Having 2 cycles running msten and epistane 6 weeks each and definitely msten and Epistane doses will be lower however I don’t how much I should dose them

In all cases Androtest will be run as a test base at 6 caps a day to combat leathery, increase gains and boost libido

Also I would like to know how much calories I should consume to avoid my previous cycle mistake

 

[Whisky]

I’d run epi plus 4ad first and then msten plus 4ad as second cycle. That will allow you to see any sides (if you half dose them each and get sides who won’t know which has caused it). Plus neither are especially noted for bad sides so extra effort to mitigate them isn’t worth it.

How tall are you by the way?

In terms of calories no one can just tell you that without knowing what your maintenance is. Personally I’d start the cycle at maintenance plus 200 a day, then week 3 onwards another 200. Monitor the scales, if they are going up stick at that, if they aren’t eat more. Get protein up at a minimum 1.5g per lb bw (so 300g plus for you)

 

[Glockguy706]

Whiskey is pretty smart . I would do exactly what he said except I would try 2 grams protein per pound .Find your BMR and go from there . I dose msten really high at 30 to 50 mg a day but I wouldnt recommend it unless you have done it before i would start at 20 and go up to 30 mg .make sure you can control.BP I would want a real test base or at least trest but that's just me. I gained around 20 pounds on msten trest and 200.mg test in a month and kept around 14 of it .

 

[Mzakif]

Whisky I’m 172 cm, 75 kg and about 14 to 15 % BF

Regarding my calories I have been eating around 2500 to 2600 calories with my current training and my weight fluctuates between 75 and 76.5 grams but to be honest in not eating very clean I might be eating more somedays

So I’m not sure what is my maintenance calories I’m trying 2600 now and I’ll check my scale after a week

Why did you recommend Epistane as 1st cycle what about cycle length and. Dosing ? Shall I run them as I mentioned above ?

 

[Glockguy706]

I would listen to whiskey . That way if there is a prohlem you can pin point the compound that caused it .

 

[Mzakif]

Whiskey is pretty smart . I would do exactly what he said except I would try 2 grams protein per pound .Find your BMR and go from there . I dose msten really high at 30 to 50 mg a day but I wouldnt recommend it unless you have done it before i would start at 20 and go up to 30 mg .make sure you can control.BP I would want a real test base or at least trest but that's just me. I gained around 20 pounds on msten trest and 200.mg test in a month and kept around 14 of it .

did u run epistaine before ?
ill use androtest as a test base
nanodrol dose is 1ml a day any idea how much is that in mg??

 

[LeanEngineer]

I would listen to whiskey . That way if there is a prohlem you can pin point the compound that caused it .

I agree with whiskey as well. If you haven't ran each of them before it's hard to tell which product is giving you bad sides if you stack them all together. So it's best to just split the cycle up and start smaller before going all in.

 

[Glockguy706]

I have only ran epistaine in a prohromone stack so I cant say much about it , and i can't say anything about androtest as a test base Or nanodrol as I am on the dark side and always use test as a test base .

 

[Mzakif]

I have only ran epistaine in a prohromone stack so I cant say much about it , and i can't say anything about androtest as a test base Or nanodrol as I am on the dark side and always use test as a test base .

U said msten in 1st response theta why I asked about. Nanodrol

I clear u meant Epistane

Thanks

 

[Glockguy706]

Is Nanodrol the same as msten ? My mistake mine was gel tabs 10 mg a piece

 

[Mzakif]

Is Nanodrol the same as msten ? My mistake mine was gel tabs 10 mg a piece

Fusion supplements nanodrol is msten but it’s nanoparticled
It’s 30ml bottle

So when u recommended 20mg to 30 you were referring to msten or epistaine as I’m confused now

Regarding my calories I have been eating around 2500 to 2600 calories with my current training and my weight fluctuates between 75 and 76.5 grams but to be honest in not eating very clean I might be eating more somedays

So I’m not sure what is my maintenance calories I’m trying 2600 now and I’ll check my scale after a week

 

[Glockguy706]

Msten. 20 to 30 a day

 

[Glockguy706]

It doesnt say how many mg per ml? Weird. I had VL msten just make sure you have plenty of tuduca

 

[Glockguy706]

Tudca is a must for msten imo.

 

[Renew1]

It doesnt say how many mg per ml? Weird. I had VL msten just make sure you have plenty of tuduca

I'm sure it does.
15mg per ml.

 

[Whisky]

Whisky I’m 172 cm, 75 kg and about 14 to 15 % BF

Regarding my calories I have been eating around 2500 to 2600 calories with my current training and my weight fluctuates between 75 and 76.5 grams but to be honest in not eating very clean I might be eating more somedays

So I’m not sure what is my maintenance calories I’m trying 2600 now and I’ll check my scale after a week

Why did you recommend Epistane as 1st cycle what about cycle length and. Dosing ? Shall I run them as I mentioned above ?

I’d only go epistane first as it’s the milder of the two (still a good compound though, I ran it at 50 Ed with trest and had a great time).

I have a few bottles of nanodrol in my stash and personally I’m thinking 2ml a day (30mg). I’ve not run it before but sure I recall someone who’s view I respect saying that they did 1ml a day and didn’t get much.... I’d be running with a pin test base though.

6 weeks is a decent length for either of them imo. No more than 8 for sure.

Calorie wise you’ll need to dial in your calorie intake and track it properly if that’s an area of concern. I have to track, some guys can go by intuition but for most I think tracking and being consistent is important. You’ll learn about what calorie intake/macro split does what to you on and off cycle (I’m still learning this massively at the moment), just a bit of trial and error brother

 

[Mzakif]

I’ll take with it 1000 Tudca

 

[Mzakif]

So what about Epistane dose shall I start with 1st week 20, 2nd week 30, then 40 for 4 weeks maybe 6 if no sides
Will I need to much tudca with it like msten?

 

[Mzakif]

I'm sure it does.
15mg per ml.

In that case it’s good that I got 2 bottles but this will be 4weeks run

 

[Glockguy706]

No idea on the epi but take your oral and wait 4 hours to take tudca ans cycle support then another 3 to 4 for.next dose of oral do not take them at the same time.

Like msten 6am 10ish tudca cycle support 2 or 3 msten 7 or so cycle support .

 

[Glockguy706]

I always drank a ton of extra water with msten as well and had no sides .

 

[Glockguy706]

Amazon has cheap tudca 500 mg tabs a pic of an orange liver on the front . Worked for me 500 mg a day to 1000 is plenty

 

[Whisky]

Amazon has cheap tudca 500 mg tabs a pic of an orange liver on the front . Worked for me 500 mg a day to 1000 is plenty

Yeah agree, 500 would be plenty.

Dosage on epi I just went 50 out the gate. I’m all for starting lower (I don’t always follow my own advice) but 20 is probably too low. Maybe 30 for a week to check you don’t react badly to it but 40 is probably where you want to be. Seen people talk about nice results at that dose.

 

[Mzakif]

Yeah agree, 500 would be plenty.

Dosage on epi I just went 50 out the gate. I’m all for starting lower (I don’t always follow my own advice) but 20 is probably too low. Maybe 30 for a week to check you don’t react badly to it but 40 is probably where you want to be. Seen people talk about nice results at that dose.

LOL

Any idea how to handle rebound gyno after Epistane
Also as far as I understand that when someone gets gyno noting eliminates it other than surgery is that correct

 

[Mzakif]

My final though is that running msten now would be better to bulk before summer then run Epistane this summer to get shredded or lean as much as possible

 

[Whisky]

LOL

Any idea how to handle rebound gyno after Epistane
Also as far as I understand that when someone gets gyno noting eliminates it other than surgery is that correct

If gyno actually forms then that’s also my understanding, that in most cases it’s surgery (that said I’ve heard of several gyno reversals apparently working with nolva, exam etc). However there’s a lot of gyno sides that would occur first and you’d simply use your ai when they flare up.

Wasn’t an issue I personally had but yeah rebound gyno is something to be aware of (I used nolva for pct on that cycle for that reason tbh)

 

[Ynn3kc1]

I have only ran epistaine in a prohromone stack so I cant say much about it , and i can't say anything about androtest as a test base Or nanodrol as I am on the dark side and always use test as a test base .

Possibly a dumb question, but how much test would adequate for a 4-6 week cycle of just epistane or halo to avoid sides?

 

[Ynn3kc1]

Possibly a dumb question, but how much test would adequate for a 4-6 week cycle of just epistane or halo to avoid sides?

as a base I mean

 

[Glockguy706]

200 mg per week for at least 8-12 weeks . I would prefer to be around 500 mg a week .

 

[Renew1]

200 mg per week for at least 8-12 weeks . I would prefer to be around 500 mg a week .

For a "Test base", that much Test isn't needed.
A Test base is only meant to help us to not experience sides from the loss of our natural Test levels. In reality (strictly for "base" purposes), 100-150 mg would be fine.