Unusual Heart Palpitations

Wilko

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Presented in medical format for easier reading.

OP: 33 years of age, 88kg, 180cm

Cycle History: Extensive use of SD, Msten, M1T (never again.), Test, Tren, and Trestolone.

Current Cycle: 175mg test prop + (previously) 20mg msten ED

Symptom: Pounding heartbeat, numbness in left arm while at rest. Symptoms abate during exercise.

History: Weeks 1-4 of cycle were flawless. Week 5 OP began experience pounding heart palpitations and numbness in left arm. Symptoms unwaveringly began 1-2 hours after drug administration and began to subside 6-8 hours later in accordance with drug half-lives. Symptoms are heavily compounded by consumption of any form of caffeine to include coffee. At worst, numbness was complete and breathing became exceptionally difficult. OP notes a distinct lack of symptoms if no drugs are administered and an immediate recurrence upon resumption of drug use. A single 24-hour window of no use completely corrects all symptoms.



Medical: Pre-cycle bloodwork and echocardiogram were conducted with no abnormalities discovered. OP resides in a nation with socialized healthcare and has access to a literal infinite wealth of cheap steroids and associated anciliaries. As such, current cycle medical components are verified pharmaceutical compounds from registered clinics. Given OP's history methylstenbolone use and manifestation of sides, OP is unsure if current methylstenbolone is bunk, poison, or something else entirely and has ceased use.



Mid-cycle testing showed expected changes to cholesterol profile but no issues related to blood pressure or cardiac function. EKG showed a mild Brugada rythym but this is a known congential defect and was stated as "mild to a degree of medical irrelevance" by a medical professional.



OP finds that physical activity results in an immediate cessation of symptoms. Moreover, extensive cardiovascular training to include endurance runs and hours of boxing produce no symptoms whatsoever thus indicating the ability of the heart to function normally. OP notes no tiredness, weakness, syncope, or associated issues.



POA: As OP noted symptoms were far worse when 20mg methylstenbolone was administered, all oral steroid use has been suspended. Injected testosterone produces much milder and more tolerable symptoms but remains an item of concern. Until further action is decided upon, OP will remain on 175mg test prop until September 1st.



Notes: OP had hematocrit levels in range and no BP issues but donated 450ml whole blood one week ago. No effect on symptoms has been seen. OP states he is "goddamn furious to reside in a nation of infinite drugs and suddenly find even the mildest steroid cycle wishes to motherfucking kill me. I mean what the ****, 500mg test cyp and tren ace every goddamn day and I'm fine, but some test prop run like grandpa's TRT is gonna fucking murder me? BULLSHIT."



OP is reckless motherfucker but ignoring a struggling heart and a numb left arm is literally asking to kill oneself so goddamnit it has to be acknowledged and some appropriate plan of action formed. Open to advice.
 
Whisky

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1st responder finds OP’s writing style amusing and enjoyable to read.

he notes OP’s frustration and can emphasise as that does seem like a fucking pain in the ass.

1st responder is musing over whether to suggest switching to a trt dose of test e/cyp to see if issue is being caused by the prop (noting some symptoms albeit milder).

1st would be remiss not to highlight that he is far from a Doctor and in the same position as the OP would probably not take the advice of a juice head online.
 

CroLifter

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Interesting.

You say you experienced symptoms like difficulty breathing and pounding heartbeat after msten administration?

It could be hypoglycemia, it is not said to be a symptom, but i always feel short of breath when it hits me hard.

Also could be anxiety from the harsh drug stimulating the cns. Also check your blood pressure.


Sounds like to me msten is the issue here.

But it seems like you dont have arrhytmia, but simply pounding heartbeat. Like i said, could be the steroids overexciting your nervous system...or hypo episode.

How is your estrogen control? Too low of an estrogen leads to very high amount of t->dht conversio n and subsequently high anxiety and jittery feelings accompanied by higher blood pressure, i experienced all of that.

As far as numbness go...did you gain significant amount of muscle in your arms in a short period of time? That could very well be the reason behind numbness, all this sudden mass pressing on your nerves, happened to me when steroids and muscle memory were combined.

Also i get a pounding heartbeat after carb heavy meal.


Ps: Now that i think more about it...maybe it is some form of local vasoconstriction brought on by msten? And then heart is not getting enough blood?
 
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Wilko

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Interesting.

You say you experienced symptoms like difficulty breathing and pounding heartbeat after msten administration?

It could be hypoglycemia, it is not said to be a symptom, but i always feel short of breath when it hits me hard.

Also could be anxiety from the harsh drug stimulating the cns. Also check your blood pressure.


Sounds like to me msten is the issue here.

But it seems like you dont have arrhytmia, but simply pounding heartbeat. Like i said, could be the steroids overexciting your nervous system...or hypo episode.

How is your estrogen control? Too low of an estrogen leads to very high amount of t->dht conversio n and subsequently high anxiety and jittery feelings accompanied by higher blood pressure, i experienced all of that.

As far as numbness go...did you gain significant amount of muscle in your arms in a short period of time? That could very well be the reason behind numbness, all this sudden mass pressing on your nerves, happened to me when steroids and muscle memory were combined.

Also i get a pounding heartbeat after carb heavy meal.


Ps: Now that i think more about it...maybe it is some form of local vasoconstriction brought on by msten? And then heart is not getting enough blood?
I've definitely had some hypo episodes in the past, especially when overextending myself with SD, but nothing like this. This is regular, consistent, and directly correlates to dosing. Moreover, I've never had a hypo episode give me left arm numbness. No arrythymia, no light-headedness, etc. Just a wildly heavy, tight chest and arm numbness.

Additionally, I have noticed a definite correlation between refined carb consumption and an increase in severity of symptoms. To wit, if I consume a particular carb-heavy post-workout shake, it definitely has a noticeable effect. However carb consumption *alone* has never caused an episode.

I'd considered estrogen as being at least tangentially related. For such a low test dose, I've had a hell of a time controlling gyno/sensitive nipple issues. I can say 500mg test e was far less troublesome but this is my first time working with prop.

Regardless, I'll keep this updated.

edit: are we allowed to drop brand names? I wonder if anyone has had issues with my msten supplier.
 
jtmartin18

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It’s very possible that its anxiety and panic attacks could be causing you to start hyperventilating. I’ve had this happen a couple of years ago running a high dose of winny, especially when combined with any stimulants, but a few days off and they completely went away. Could also be compounded by other events in your life that are causing you to be more on edge than on past cycles.

I’ve had the same exact numbness and palpitations it sounds like you’re describing, and the numbness was from hyperventilating caused by a panic attack, that also being the cause of the palpitations.

I’m definitely not saying ignore potential cardiovascular issues, but keep in mind that the symptoms of a panic attack literally mimic the symptoms of a heart attack.
 

Wilko

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It’s very possible that its anxiety and panic attacks could be causing you to start hyperventilating. I’ve had this happen a couple of years ago running a high dose of winny, especially when combined with any stimulants, but a few days off and they completely went away. Could also be compounded by other events in your life that are causing you to be more on edge than on past cycles.

I’ve had the same exact numbness and palpitations it sounds like you’re describing, and the numbness was from hyperventilating caused by a panic attack, that also being the cause of the palpitations.

I’m definitely not saying ignore potential cardiovascular issues, but keep in mind that the symptoms of a panic attack literally mimic the symptoms of a heart attack.
Did it come on after dosing and last for 6-8 hours? Also, did it ever occur with an entirely normal heart rate and regular breathing pattern? My knowledge of panic attack's physical manifestations is very limited but I was under the impression they are sudden episodes rather than lengthy things? Either way, I'll keep it in mind if it happens again.
 
Mathb33

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I’d definitely go see a doctor and check all that but just the fact you’re saying everything goes away when you’re training and that means you’re actually fine and well to train hard tells me it’s anxiety / small panick attacks. Some days where I’m a bit anxious during a blast cycle the only moment I’ll be fine is when I workout. The whole day I’ll feel a bit anxious. At first it was horrible like you describe it but as you learn to cope with it and not panick it gets a lot easier. It could also be a health problem so I’d go see a doctor.
 

CroLifter

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Tight chest could be anxiety but it also could be high blood pressure.
 
jtmartin18

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Did it come on after dosing and last for 6-8 hours? Also, did it ever occur with an entirely normal heart rate and regular breathing pattern? My knowledge of panic attack's physical manifestations is very limited but I was under the impression they are sudden episodes rather than lengthy things? Either way, I'll keep it in mind if it happens again.
Yeah I’ve had them last for a half hour and I’ve had them where I’m on edge trouble breathing numbness in arm that can last many hours and seem like they’re never going to end.Ive definitely had some of these symptoms with a normal heart rate, but I do think that they’ve been the majority of the time accompanied by chest tightness or shortness of breath. Those two seem to be the most common symptom of anxiety for me.

If echo, EKG, and bloodwork all have good results, then I’m really not sure what else a cardiologist would do. Sooo, if you have access to any benzodiazepines like Xanax/Ativan/klonopin/Valium and wanted to find out if it was anxiety you could try taking one next time it happens and see if it goes away. I’m no doctor but I think that would give you pretty solid confirmation if it goes away 30 minutes after a benzo that it was anxiety.

As for the cause of the anxiety I have no idea, but like Cro said you’ve got a harsh drug that stimulates your cns. I believe any change in hormone levels that knocks you out of equilibrium can cause anxiety.

And Just FYI I honestly wouldn’t comment if I hadn’t had a really similar experience, I don’t like messing around when it comes to health either.
 

Wilko

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Yeah I’ve had them last for a half hour and I’ve had them where I’m on edge trouble breathing numbness in arm that can last many hours and seem like they’re never going to end.Ive definitely had some of these symptoms with a normal heart rate, but I do think that they’ve been the majority of the time accompanied by chest tightness or shortness of breath. Those two seem to be the most common symptom of anxiety for me.

If echo, EKG, and bloodwork all have good results, then I’m really not sure what else a cardiologist would do. Sooo, if you have access to any benzodiazepines like Xanax/Ativan/klonopin/Valium and wanted to find out if it was anxiety you could try taking one next time it happens and see if it goes away. I’m no doctor but I think that would give you pretty solid confirmation if it goes away 30 minutes after a benzo that it was anxiety.

As for the cause of the anxiety I have no idea, but like Cro said you’ve got a harsh drug that stimulates your cns. I believe any change in hormone levels that knocks you out of equilibrium can cause anxiety.

And Just FYI I honestly wouldn’t comment if I hadn’t had a really similar experience, I don’t like messing around when it comes to health either.
Well, extended left arm numbness definitely seems to be a mutual symptom. I'm open to any and all experience or advice at this point - it would be quite callous of me to admit I'm clueless then ignore others' opinions, no?

I've debated dosing the msten at 20mg and having some cardiac tests done while symptomatic for confirmation but I feel like that might be an unnecessary endeavor. Since dropping the msten I've felt much better though at 175mg test prop per week this is essentially glorified TRT. Yes, that's definitely a supraphysiological dose but we all know that nobody plans a cycle around a meager 175mg of test alone. I should note that the girls who work pharmacy around the corner will float me a hefty supply of 25mg test prop ampules (at like 4 dollars a week!) but I ask to double my dose then some questions might be posed. They're not doctors but they're aware that one guy should not be walking out with 60+ ampules at a time.

8/3 50mg test prop + 10mg msten - cardiac stress/numbness
8/4 50mg test prop + 10mg msten - cardiac stress/numbness
8/5 25mg test prop - no issues
8/6 50mg test prop - no issues.
8/7 25mg test prop - no issues.

Of course this inclines to the question of how to proceed. If my 8/8 dose is also asymptomatic, I'll try msten on 8/9 to confirm. I ran msten quite extensively back in the day and I am highly suspicious of my current stock. My blood pressure wasn't up, I wasn't getting the crippling back pumps, and I was watery as ****. The truly curious thing for me was the complete lack of hepatic stress. Usually by week 4 of an msten run my appetite is severely limited but I had no issue eating everything in sight. Now, without verified medical testing, it's wholly plausible that this very much anecdotal evidence actually amounts to nothing whatsoever.

TL;DR: Hey guys im not dead.
 
StarScream66

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This was amusing (seriously) ...
But honestly, I'd see a Dr.
I don't play around with symptoms like that.
As Renew said, this is nothing an internet forum can diagnose. You will need to see a doctor.

It’s very possible that its anxiety and panic attacks could be causing you to start hyperventilating. ...
Panic attacks don't cause the numbness in the arm, though. That is VERY concerning. That means blood flow is getting cut off to your arms and one of the first symptoms of a heart attack.
 

CroLifter

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As Renew said, this is nothing an internet forum can diagnose. You will need to see a doctor.



Panic attacks don't cause the numbness in the arm, though. That is VERY concerning. That means blood flow is getting cut off to your arms and one of the first symptoms of a heart attack.
I get numb hands when i get an adrenaline spike.

Also on cycle i always get numb hands/arms much more often. Increased mass pressing on nerves + thick blood.


But if his is only on one side of the body then it may be vascular. He may have a narrowed artery due to plaque and which then vasoconstriction induced by msten makes worse.
 
StarScream66

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I get numb hands when i get an adrenaline spike.

Also on cycle i always get numb hands/arms much more often. Increased mass pressing on nerves + thick blood.


But if his is only on one side of the body then it may be vascular. He may have a narrowed artery due to plaque and which then vasoconstriction induced by msten makes worse.
Yeah, the thickening of the blood on AAS is a major concern. I did a lil Google search to find out about the arm numbness thing, and that's apparently not specific to just a heart attack. But none of them are good. Numbness in hands is one thing, but the whole arm is a different story.


You can learn more at
 
jtmartin18

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As Renew said, this is nothing an internet forum can diagnose. You will need to see a doctor.



Panic attacks don't cause the numbness in the arm, though. That is VERY concerning. That means blood flow is getting cut off to your arms and one of the first symptoms of a heart attack.
They actually do. Your entire arm and hands can go numb when hyperventilating.
 

Wilko

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Gentlemen,
Given that the entirety of the numbness is limited to only my chest and left arm, I feel it is wholly legitimate to consider this a cardiac issue rather than one based in hyperventilating or anxiety, or at the very least consider that some cardiac or vascular issue is being acutely exacerbated by a several-hours long panic attack that directly correlates to drug administration. Either way.

note: A couple hours of vigorous sex and entirely too much coffee failed to generate any cardiac events whatsoever. While I'm not inclined to say the msten itself is inherently the issue, I am now 100% that my problems directly relate to its use and as such am dumping it. Unfortunately, due to Covid 19 adversely affecting international mail and commerce, my access to other items is greatly limited at the moment. I might have an agent able to procure things from across the Chinese border but I'll need to investigate that route further before relying upon it.

TL;DR - Msten was killing me. Dumped it but now my cycle is weak sauce garbage.
 

CroLifter

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Gentlemen,
Given that the entirety of the numbness is limited to only my chest and left arm, I feel it is wholly legitimate to consider this a cardiac issue rather than one based in hyperventilating or anxiety, or at the very least consider that some cardiac or vascular issue is being acutely exacerbated by a several-hours long panic attack that directly correlates to drug administration. Either way.

note: A couple hours of vigorous sex and entirely too much coffee failed to generate any cardiac events whatsoever. While I'm not inclined to say the msten itself is inherently the issue, I am now 100% that my problems directly relate to its use and as such am dumping it. Unfortunately, due to Covid 19 adversely affecting international mail and commerce, my access to other items is greatly limited at the moment. I might have an agent able to procure things from across the Chinese border but I'll need to investigate that route further before relying upon it.

TL;DR - Msten was killing me. Dumped it but now my cycle is weak sauce garbage.

Sounds like to me that msten doesnt agree with your body

Or...there is always a possibility of it being contaminated with god knows what
 

Wilko

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Holding steady at 25mg/day.

Not dead.

Debating what/if to run to finish.
 

Reef91

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I’m having exactly same issues running sust and mast. I drop both of few weeks ago and now I started having low test symptoms, when I pin 125mg of Sust the heart palpitation came back, keep in my I got my blood done and my E2 was low average range. It was 19.

what should I do in order to go back on test. Also my anxiety is high and My body is shaking at night time.
 
jtmartin18

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I’m having exactly same issues running sust and mast. I drop both of few weeks ago and now I started having low test symptoms, when I pin 125mg of Sust the heart palpitation came back, keep in my I got my blood done and my E2 was low average range. It was 19.

what should I do in order to go back on test. Also my anxiety is high and My body is shaking at night time.
Are you on TRT? Or have you successfully cycled before without anxiety in the past? If neither, probably a good idea to PCT and get the anxiety under control before doing/trying anything else.

I’ve only gotten bad anxiety or heart palps from stronger orals, I haven’t heard of anybody from just a low dose of test, but I would imagine it’s possible from anything hormonal.
 
celc5

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My guess is that u had elevated RBCs and needed to donate.
 

Wilko

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I’m having exactly same issues running sust and mast. I drop both of few weeks ago and now I started having low test symptoms, when I pin 125mg of Sust the heart palpitation came back, keep in my I got my blood done and my E2 was low average range. It was 19.

what should I do in order to go back on test. Also my anxiety is high and My body is shaking at night time.
How often are you pinning that dose?

Also still at 25mg ED. Not dead. I was recently contacted by a person whom can provide me items at almost hilariously low prices (proximity to Chinese chemical manufacturing centers is proving beneficial) and now I'm just eye my next run. I'm rather prepared for this one to finish.
 
MadStax

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Amazon has a lightning deal on a great blood pressure monitor. I had similar symptoms and found that it was my blood pressure. Now that I'm controlling it, it's not happened again!

 

CroLifter

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Amazon has a lightning deal on a great blood pressure monitor. I had similar symptoms and found that it was my blood pressure. Now that I'm controlling it, it's not happened again!

Ya its possible, my grandma who is 80 says how she feels "pressure" and most notably "heaviness" in her chest when bp gets higher.
 

Wilko

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Ya its possible, my grandma who is 80 says how she feels "pressure" and most notably "heaviness" in her chest when bp gets higher.
During one of those cardiac episodes, do you taking BP on both arms would show a differemce?
 

CroLifter

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During one of those cardiac episodes, do you taking BP on both arms would show a differemce?
I would take it on the non-dominant arm, thats the way i and everyone around me does it.
 

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Op you are brave. Stop the cycle, do PCT. drop everything till you make sure all your health markers are normal.

There was a time I ran msten and I had bad allergies that I could feel in my arm when I sneezed. I stopped that cycle right then. That was enough warning for me during that cycle something wasn't right. I got better with allergy medicine months later but you just never know how everything is affecting bunch of other things inside your body.

Just not worth the risk of cardiac issues or sudden passing over some OTC aas stuff you know that you can't hold anyone responsible for. Just my 2 cents
 

Wilko

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Op you are brave. Stop the cycle, do PCT. drop everything till you make sure all your health markers are normal.

There was a time I ran msten and I had bad allergies that I could feel in my arm when I sneezed. I stopped that cycle right then. That was enough warning for me during that cycle something wasn't right. I got better with allergy medicine months later but you just never know how everything is affecting bunch of other things inside your body.

Just not worth the risk of cardiac issues or sudden passing over some OTC aas stuff you know that you can't hold anyone responsible for. Just my 2 cents
Since dropping the offending items I've been more or less fine. I haven't had any numbness or thought about it further. However, you are wholly right that this is suggestive of something that warrants medical investigation. I still cannot fathom how mild test prop and msten somehow gave me such serious issues when test/tren with an trest backer went well. I even invested the money to get a full cardiac work-up and bloodwork that came back clean across the board.

Honestly, the only thing I can imagine is that the msten is the problem. All my items are direct from a legitimate pharmacy and thus presumably of respectable quality. I suppose we could posit the notion that after my medical tests we have verifiable evidence that my organs are also of respectible quality (ostensibly.) The only item that isn't wholly is that verified is the msten but this inclines us to wonder why there were no issues for the first 25 or so days.

Regardless, I'll finish my current stock and then take a few months off.

I've found a new source that invokes virtual fever dreams of grand cycles run recklessly. I swore off tren. I swore it off sincerely and with a deep, abiding hate.

But also.... tren.



















.... yeah I'm gonna die.
 
Mathb33

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As Renew said, this is nothing an internet forum can diagnose. You will need to see a doctor.



Panic attacks don't cause the numbness in the arm, though. That is VERY concerning. That means blood flow is getting cut off to your arms and one of the first symptoms of a heart attack.
It’s also the first symptoms of 10 different other things one of them being high hematocrit.
 

CroLifter

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It’s also the first symptoms of 10 different other things one of them being high hematocrit.
Exactly when my hct was 53% i would wake up with my whole leg numb. Sometimes both an arm and a leg. Really weird.
 

Wilko

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Exactly when my hct was 53% i would wake up with my whole leg numb. Sometimes both an arm and a leg. Really weird.
Ive donated blood twice but Ill check again.
 

CroLifter

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Don’t pull a Cro my man
Yeah because if you donate too much your fukkin body ramps up rbc production so much that you cant keep up with bloodletting but at the same time your iron stores get depleted


So you end up with what i believe is sh1tty hemoglobin...itd funny...people say you have to be anemic to feel breathless...i had a hematocrit of like 49 and felt out of breath...i am sure the damn body of mine was pumping out this gunk like crazy but these damn cells contained very little hemoglobin
 

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Are you on TRT? Or have you successfully cycled before without anxiety in the past? If neither, probably a good idea to PCT and get the anxiety under control before doing/trying anything else.

I’ve only gotten bad anxiety or heart palps from stronger orals, I haven’t heard of anybody from just a low dose of test, but I would imagine it’s possible from anything hormonal.
yes i have been cycling on and off for past 10 years, but this is my first time i have been talking little bit high dose of test and mast for while around a year and half. i would also cruise for few weeks once in while around 250 mg a week. The high i would injection during cycle it would be 400mg test and 400mg mast.


right now i stop everything but i still feel it at night whenever my body trying to relax i would get anxiety and heavy blood pressure, also lately i'm getting headaches, but it has been so much better than the past few weeks, i couldn't sleep and my heart was pounding alot.
 

Wilko

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Yeah because if you donate too much your fukkin body ramps up rbc production so much that you cant keep up with bloodletting but at the same time your iron stores get depleted


So you end up with what i believe is sh1tty hemoglobin...itd funny...people say you have to be anemic to feel breathless...i had a hematocrit of like 49 and felt out of breath...i am sure the damn body of mine was pumping out this gunk like crazy but these damn cells contained very little hemoglobin
The first time I donated I could immediately tell I definitely should have done it sooner. I felt much better within minutes. The second time helped a bit. I should mention that I am substantially larger than the majority of people in my current nation and as such the standard blood donation sizes are much smaller than what you would give in say the US or UK. Curiously, while the donation definitely reduced by BP, lessened headaches, reduced the almost clinical vascularity in my forearms and hands, it did nothing regarding the cardiac issue.

While I appreciate how asinine the following question is in concept:

What's the least heart-abusive cycle ya'll can think of?
 

CroLifter

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What's the least heart-abusive cycle ya'll can think of?
Thats a very tough one.

I dont think anyone here (including me) is qualified enough to state anything...but i am going to give you my opinion.

Cycle that doesnt give heart damaging sides like high blood pressure, high ldl/low hdl etc is going to be safer for YOU.

For example many would say how test is the safest. Well, at what dose i ask?

Tren is supposed to be really harsh but you see, on 500 test my bp was 140/90.

On 250 test and 100 tren a my bp was 125/75. So in a sense, the 2nd cycle was healthier for ME. I also felt better on that cycle, healthier, no AI and no high hematocrit like on 500 test.


So really, it depends on the particular sides that YOU get from particular drugs, but i can give you few rules that IMHO may help.


1) Dont spend too much time on cycle, i go by the rule that 12 weeks out of the year is plenty, outisde of strict trt dose of cpurse if you need it

2) dont use excessive doses, nothing wrong with using 300-500mg total per week, especiqlly if you dont compete and us who do this recreationally, 0 point in abusing (imho), and you still get great results

3) Stay away from very high doses of testosterone. As far as direct cardiac tissue trauma goes (scarring, fibrosis) test seems to be very bad due to dht, even worse than tren, some studies show

Also staying away from orals may be a good idea however i dont think that sth like a 4 week reasonable dosed blast of sth like dbol will have that much of a negative impact
 
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Wilko

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Thats a very tough one.

I dont think anyone here (including me) is qualified enough to state anything...but i am going to give you my opinion.

Cycle that doesnt give heart damaging sides like high blood pressure, high ldl/low hdl etc is going to be safer for YOU.

For example many would say how test is the safest. Well, at what dose i ask?

Tren is supposed to be really harsh but you see, on 500 test my bp was 140/90.

On 250 test and 100 tren a my bp was 125/75. So in a sense, the 2nd cycle was healthier for ME. I also felt better on that cycle, healthier, no AI and no high hematocrit like on 500 test.


So really, it depends on the particular sides that YOU get from particular drugs, but i can give you few rules that IMHO may help.


1) Dont spend too much time on cycle, i go by the rule that 12 weeks out of the year is plenty, outisde of strict trt dose of cpurse if you need it

2) dont use excessive doses, nothing wrong with using 300-500mg total per week, especiqlly if you dont compete and us who do this recreationally, 0 point in abusing (imho), and you still get great results

3) Stay away from very high doses of testosterone. As far as direct cardiac tissue trauma goes (scarring, fibrosis) test seems to be very bad due to dht, even worse than tren, some studies show

Also staying away from orals may be a good idea however i dont think that sth like a 4 week reasonable dosed blast of sth like dbol will have that much of a negative impact
I agree entirely. I briefly ran the test much higher and the increase in blood pressure was significant enough to be legitimately uncomfortable. It also directly correlated to cardiac issues. I'd love - LOVE - to run low-dose tren. It always treated me quite well but I'll admit that it both ruined my sleep (fucking. trenmares.) and negatively affected my general demeanor. On test, I can fight a bear. On tren, I want to fight the bear. And then **** his wife because **** You Bear, Tren-Powers.

I've always been a strong proponent of responsible oral use but after this msten debacle I'm hesitant.

Regardless, this part of the world traffics in anabolic compounds at obscenely low prices so my options are open. I'm sure I'll convince myself to run something sooner rather than later but it won't be until winter proper. Moreover, covid 19 is making international sourcing a pain.
 

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Panic attacks don't cause the numbness in the arm, though. That is VERY concerning. That means blood flow is getting cut off to your arms and one of the first symptoms of a heart attack.
Of course they do. Its vasoconstriction of the extremities caused by the adrenaline. Its why panic attacks are so often mistaken for heart attacks.

Also a lot of people dont realize this but when you have a deep hypoglycemic episode your body dumps a tremendous amount of adrenaline which makes it feel exactly like a panic attack.

Ive had both serious panic attacks and serious hypo episodes for a long time and without my glucose meter its actually very hard to tell the difference. In my experience glucose has to get in like the low 40s to get that adrenaline dump.
 

CroLifter

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Of course they do. Its vasoconstriction of the extremities caused by the adrenaline. Its why panic attacks are so often mistaken for heart attacks.

Also a lot of people dont realize this but when you have a deep hypoglycemic episode your body dumps a tremendous amount of adrenaline which makes it feel exactly like a panic attack.

Ive had both serious panic attacks and serious hypo episodes for a long time and without my glucose meter its actually very hard to tell the difference. In my experience glucose has to get in like the low 40s to get that adrenaline dump.
Oh man talk about hypo episodes. When a particularly bad hits you you seriously start to think you aint gonna make it, crawling on the floor, short of breath, sweating buckets of cold sweat...horrible


Running mk677 and then taking a larger dose of dextrose post workout is a sure way for me to get a bad hypo episode.
 

Wilko

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Still holding strong at 25mg test prop ed. Still not dead so thats pretty cool.

I wanna be bummed and somewhat am, but Ill still come out of thjs bigger and stronger than when I started. However, my real concern orientd toward the simple quality of life improvements that this test dose provides me.

Going back to feeling like **** is gonna be rough. Naturally, given my infinite access while residing in this nation, I could just stay on forever....







.. and add tren ace
 

CroLifter

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Still holding strong at 25mg test prop ed. Still not dead so thats pretty cool.

I wanna be bummed and somewhat am, but Ill still come out of thjs bigger and stronger than when I started. However, my real concern orientd toward the simple quality of life improvements that this test dose provides me.

Going back to feeling like **** is gonna be rough. Naturally, given my infinite access while residing in this nation, I could just stay on forever....







.. and add tren ace

I get this. There is no comparison to how i feel on even 100mg test a week compwred to being off everything. Its not that i dont have the motivation and drive to get things done when i am off, but i 100% feel i approach important social and especially business encounters very differently.

^^this right there is the biggest reason why i would jsut want to stay on 100mg of test a week, not gains, but attitude towards life. When i am on i dont have those weird sort of depressive/blue episodes where i question if i am worthy enough to achieve anything haha.

Its funny how when you are in this different state of mind (ie ON) you can take a 3rd person look, i just want to slap the sh1t out of that person that i become when blues hit me.




And then there ist damn pct...hcg...then clomid that i hate


The only reason i come off is becausee i am paranoid and worried test may not be always available, as i am a survivalist kind of guy, you can see where i am going with this.

Want to be prepared for all situations.
 
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Wilko

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I get this. There is no comparison to how i feel on even 100mg test a week compwred to being off everything. Its not that i dont have the motivation and drive to get things done when i am off, but i 100% feel i approach important social and especially business encounters very differently.

^^this right there is the biggest reason why i would jsut want to stay on 100mg of test a week, not gains, but attitude towards life. When i am on i dont have those weird sort of depressive/blue episodes where i question if i am worthy enough to achieve anything haha.

Its funny how when you are in this different state of mind (ie ON) you can take a 3rd person look, i just want to slap the sh1t out of that person that i become when blues hit me.




And then there ist damn pct...hcg...then clomid that i hate


The only reason i come off is becausee i am paranoid and worried test may not be always available, as i am a survivalist kind of guy, you can see where i am going with this.

Want to be prepared for all situations.
The only End Times preparation I have in this nation would be a few extra pairs of glasses. My hormones can normalize on a long enough timeline - my vision will remain an obstacle to things like Being Alive and Not Becoming Dead.

I'm thinking I'll grant myself 4 weeks of strict cutting starting on September 1st. We both know my physique will take a hit when I come off cycle and it'll be less mentally stressful if my bodyfat is low when this occurs. Moreover, I can't cut during PCT so I might as well do it now while I'm working with supraphysiological levels of testosterone.

Unrelated related: I have never had gyno problems with estrogen but there have been a few mild incidents with tren/19nor. My nipples and subsequent slightly gynocomastic tissue have been problematic since the beginning of this cycle and I couldn't figure out why. At one point I even crashed my estrogen hard with aromasin and still had issues. I even squeezed the tiniest bit of milk out of my right nipple. Boy, that was an interesting experience. However, since dropping that msten, those issues have mysteriously alleviated. I stopped using any AI at all and have had no issue. I'll be taking a 10mg dose a day of tamoxifen to help starve out the established gyno tissue, however. This again reinforces my theory that the msten I purchased was either bad or not even msten at all.

If anyone has ever had estro/prolactin issues from fucking methylstenbolone, I'd love to hear about it.

This cycle has really inclined me towards longer, more mildly dosed cycles.

Anyway, I'm not dead.
 

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