Udca

Sss23

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Can udca speed up metabolism of supplements? It seems when I take udca with adderall it is out of my system more quickly? Is this possible?
 

2kvette

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Can udca speed up metabolism of supplements? It seems when I take udca with adderall it is out of my system more quickly? Is this possible?
Yes, increases bile acid secretion and improves composition. if you really want to increase absorption then take adderall with a tums to increase the unionized fraction. I'm a pharmacy student btw.
 
justhere4comm

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UDCA is impressive.

Tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA) - Tauroursodeoxycholic acid, also known as TUDCA, is naturally occurring substance found in large amounts in bear bile (fluid produced by the liver that aids the digestion of lipids in the small intestine). TUDCA is also found in trace amounts in humans. TUDCA is chemically similar to another compound called Ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA). TUDCA is simply the OH group replaced with a taurine group, take a look:

tudca_and_udca_chemical_large.png

What's so significant about this? UDCA is the only FDA approved drug to treat primary biliary cirrhosis (cirrhosis is chronic liver damage leading to scarring and liver failure). Unfortunately, UDCA is obtained only through a doctor's prescriptions. Good news is, TUDCA is still available to be marketed as a supplement. Even better news, in a controlled study, patients taking TUDCA showed marked improvement in liver function as reflected through several indicators such as total bilirubin, GGT, ALT and AST (Further Reading 1). TUDCA has also been shown as a promising compound to treat insulin resistance - insulin is crucial to your body building muscle, so you don't want to be insulin resistant! (Further Reading 2). The "FDA" of China has even approved TUDCA as a treatment for cholesterol stones.

A lot of heavy reading, but this all mounts to one conclusion: TUDCA has been shown to be an effective substance for treating and preventing liver and gall problems. Hence TUDCA is a crucial part of your cycle regiment as a liver support product. TUDCA has seen growing support among bodybuilding circles, but it's high cost of production has limited widespread availability. We are strong advocates of it's efficacy and believe it's benefits far outweighs it's cost.

If you're on any type of anabolic, androgenic or supplement cycle, we strongly suggest you pick up some liver support for optimal body health!


LIVER IV by Vein Nutrition
 

Sss23

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Yes, increases bile acid secretion and improves composition. if you really want to increase absorption then take adderall with a tums to increase the unionized fraction. I'm a pharmacy student btw.
Would increasing absorption help me feel the effects faster and for a shorter period of time? Or longer? Basically I don't want the effects to last as long and udca seems to help somewhat
 
heavylifter33

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Faster for roughly the same duration, possibly longer.
I stayed at a holiday inn express last night btw.
 

2kvette

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Would increasing absorption help me feel the effects faster and for a shorter period of time? Or longer? Basically I don't want the effects to last as long and udca seems to help somewhat
Increased absorption will increase the AUC, but won't affect the elimination rate. So you will feel it faster, but the effects will last longer because we're not affecting how the drug is eliminated, just the extent of absorption. Adderall is primarily excreted by renal filtration and reabsorption and has a basic functional group. So in order to increase its elimination you need to make the urine pH more acidic. Diet Coke or a big steak would do this.
 

canarmy

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If it absorbs faster, it will be out of you faster. Adderall and many other like it are sustained release via capsules or beads that are very hard to break down or crush. It takes hours for all of it to get into your blood. Their fore if it is in you faster you will feel the effects for a shorter period of time but it will be stronger. Think about how surface area effects a reaction along w the half life of a reaction.
 

2kvette

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If it absorbs faster, it will be out of you faster. Adderall and many other like it are sustained release via capsules or beads that are very hard to break down or crush. It takes hours for all of it to get into your blood. Their fore if it is in you faster you will feel the effects for a shorter period of time but it will be stronger. Think about how surface area effects a reaction along w the half life of a reaction.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong on all accounts. None of the things you say are related to one another. It will last longer. This is very easy to show from PK data. Not all adderall is sustained release btw.
 

canarmy

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I'm in Chem Eng and also use adderall during exams.. and if you say everything I said is wrong your an idiot. Google surface area and rate of reaction.
 

2kvette

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I'm in Chem Eng and also use adderall during exams.. and if you say everything I said is wrong your an idiot. Google surface area and rate of reaction.
That's okay, I already have two chemistry degrees(with a focus in pharmaceutics chemistry), and been on adderall for 9 years. Working on the pharmD right now. Increasing surface area will increase absorption, but is not the rate limiting step in adderall absorption, especially since amphetamines are highly soluble. Adderall is very polar, pKa of 9.9. So in stomach acid and the majority of the GI tract it is in the ionized form given that stomach acid pH is usually around 2-4. Ionized drugs won't be absorbed in the intestinal lumen. Polar molecules don't like to mingle with lipids. Raising the stomach pH to more alkaline conditions will will shift the equilibrium towards the unionized base form that is absorbable. Idk why u want me to look up a reaction and reaction rates, there is no reaction taking place. I think you should brush up on acid/base equilibrium and solubility.

P.S. Look up the clinical practice guidelines for acute anphetamine overdose. Modulating pH is exactly what is called for to accelerate excretion. Seen it many times in the ER.
 

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Haha what ever man. I've taken many courses that you science guys take.. try and engineering one lol
 

canarmy

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If you don't think increased surface area effects absorption your probably not why you say you are lol.. a geologist knows this, if you do know your pharmacy **** then look up Concerta.. ps why do you crush a pill and snort it instead of popping it??
 

2kvette

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If you don't think increased surface area effects absorption your probably not why you say you are lol.. a geologist knows this, if you do know your pharmacy **** then look up Concerta.. ps why do you crush a pill and snort it instead of popping it??
I said it does, see the above post. People snort things because it's straight to the systemic circulation.
IMG_0420.JPG


Straight from the package insert. Don't let the butt hurt keep you up tonight.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/011522s040lbl.pdf
 

canarmy

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Okay true, I did **** up.. but also look at it this way.. let's say the drug lasts 4 hours.. if you get it into you all at once (injection or snorting) we can start the 4 hr timer, but let's say you swallow it and It must go through other mechanisms before it's in the blood, their fore their will be a time period between the first bit entering the blood and the last, that time can be added on to the 4hr effect of the drug due to rate of absorption. If you don't understand this don't reply, so much for the butt hurt
 

canarmy

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Engineers understand the effect of the combination of separate working systems ;)
 

Sss23

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Lol this is over my head but what other ways are there to increase excretion by modulating PH? Or what's the most effective
 

2kvette

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Okay true, I did **** up.. but also look at it this way.. let's say the drug lasts 4 hours.. if you get it into you all at once (injection or snorting) we can start the 4 hr timer, but let's say you swallow it and It must go through other mechanisms before it's in the blood, their fore their will be a time period between the first bit entering the blood and the last, that time can be added on to the 4hr effect of the drug due to rate of absorption. If you don't understand this don't reply, so much for the butt hurt
The absobed fraction equals e^-ka*t. Ka is the absorption rate constant , t is just time. Take this and multiply it by five, since it takes five half lives for a process to go to 97.5% completion. Adderall reaches Cmax at 3 hours after oral administration. Anytime after Cmax, which here is 3 hours, the rate of elimination becomes greater than the exponentially shrinking rate of absorption. So we take our five half lives rule and multiply it by 3 and we get fifiteen hours. So at fifteen hours, 97.5% of drug has been absorbed.
Image1492578389.075214.jpg


Here's my old notes from pharmacokinetics. Don't let the butt hurt distract you from your studies. PM me and I'll mail you some preparationH to help with your chronic butt hurt. You seem to have one of the worse cases I have ever seen, in fact, the only case of stage 4 posterior colorectal glutadynia I've come across.


You must truly have a golden rectum of the gods.
 

2kvette

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Lol this is over my head but what other ways are there to increase excretion by modulating PH? Or what's the most effective
Taking a tums tablet will make the pH in the stomach more basic and help absorption. Urine pH can be made more acidic by eating a high protein diet. Red meats really do this a lot.
 

canarmy

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Lol you don't understand what I'm saying, lol pharmacokinetics looks easy as ****.. try a fluids course bud and see how you feel working w actual problems.. btw taking adderall with food will affect the overall time adderall is in you.. yes or no? I know someone is pharmaceutical chemistry and they are very incompetent
 
hazard12

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Lol you are both talking about factors that affect the elimination, what I think you guys are missing is how much each affects it. Yes, if you have more adderall in your system, all things being equal, you will excrete more net adderall because the % elimination rate is about the same, therefore the increased blood concentration results in more net elimination in a given unit of time. Regardless of the blood concentration, urine pH will increase the % of adderall in you blood that is removed per unit of time. These will have a net effect if....WHO THE **** KNOWS!? Stop arguing about **** you cant get a clear answer to. You both are right in your own way, all this name calling and **** derailed you from seeking an answer to the question and yall have been trying to one up each other...

If you want your urine to be REALLY charged with amphetamines, take a large dose and acidify your urine...done
 
rascal14

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Lol you don't understand what I'm saying, lol pharmacokinetics looks easy as ****.. try a fluids course bud and see how you feel working w actual problems.. btw taking adderall with food will affect the overall time adderall is in you.. yes or no? I know someone is pharmaceutical chemistry and they are very incompetent
You're a ****ing moron.
 

uprightrows

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^^

This, we really need to stop handing out eng degrees to certain people lol
 
muscleupcrohn

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Engineers understand the effect of the combination of separate working systems ;)
Engineers understand that it's fallacious logic to assume that engineers know everything about everything.

I'm just messing with you man. ;)
 
muscleupcrohn

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If you don't think increased surface area effects absorption your probably not why you say you are lol.. a geologist knows this, if you do know your pharmacy **** then look up Concerta.. ps why do you crush a pill and snort it instead of popping it??
Because it's pretty hard to snort a whole pill?
 

2kvette

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Lol you are both talking about factors that affect the elimination, what I think you guys are missing is how much each affects it. Yes, if you have more adderall in your system, all things being equal, you will excrete more net adderall because the % elimination rate is about the same, therefore the increased blood concentration results in more net elimination in a given unit of time. Regardless of the blood concentration, urine pH will increase the % of adderall in you blood that is removed per unit of time. These will have a net effect if....WHO THE **** KNOWS!? Stop arguing about **** you cant get a clear answer to. You both are right in your own way, all this name calling and **** derailed you from seeking an answer to the question and yall have been trying to one up each other...

If you want your urine to be REALLY charged with amphetamines, take a large dose and acidify your urine...done
pH affects absorption as well for adderall. It comes in by passive diffusion. I gave a clear answer to the question. Urine pH will also affect adderalls half life because it is reabsorbed in the distal convoluted tubule. More acidic urine= more adderall out. Shut up or I won't send you anymore 11KT. Lol

The butt hurt thing was just a joke, I was getting a kick out of how heated this guy was getting. That's why I kept it going.
 

canarmy

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I had no idea aderrall gets reabsorbed.. that's pretty crazy considering you would think it has been metabolized.. snorting adderall lasts a lot less longer than popping it and I know many people that can agree with that ;)
 
rtmilburn

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Ok guys I've read through this all great information​ but I got a few questions that Dr google could not find(lol I'm sure it's out there somewhere though).

I though urine pH didn't effect Adderall after the initial absorption, but from reading your guys post it seem to not case? The urine pH the whole time will effect the Half-Life?

What are the best ways to clear Adderall? As it has a very long Half-Life and it messes with my sleep even with IR dosed early (6amish at 15mg). So I was wondering what can I do to make it clear my system faster after I don't need the effects anymore like at night?
 

2kvette

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Ok guys I've read through this all great information​ but I got a few questions that Dr google could not find(lol I'm sure it's out there somewhere though).

I though urine pH didn't effect Adderall after the initial absorption, but from reading your guys post it seem to not case? The urine pH the whole time will effect the Half-Life?

What are the best ways to clear Adderall? As it has a very long Half-Life and it messes with my sleep even with IR dosed early (6amish at 15mg). So I was wondering what can I do to make it clear my system faster after I don't need the effects anymore like at night?
PH affects both in adderall.
To clear it faster you just make the urine more acidic
 
rascal14

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Ok guys I've read through this all great information​ but I got a few questions that Dr google could not find(lol I'm sure it's out there somewhere though).

I though urine pH didn't effect Adderall after the initial absorption, but from reading your guys post it seem to not case? The urine pH the whole time will effect the Half-Life?

What are the best ways to clear Adderall? As it has a very long Half-Life and it messes with my sleep even with IR dosed early (6amish at 15mg). So I was wondering what can I do to make it clear my system faster after I don't need the effects anymore like at night?
Do you take it daily?
 
rtmilburn

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PH affects both in adderall.
To clear it faster you just make the urine more acidic
So best way to clear it is to eat a big steak/hamburger, drink some soda and take lots of ascorbic acid.
 

2kvette

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So best way to clear it is to eat a big steak/hamburger, drink some soda and take lots of ascorbic acid.
Yep, the meds that do it are prescription only. And very easy to use too much and alter your body and blood pH so much you kill yourself. And it's a miserable death. So don't attempt to obtain them, for them to even be used safely you would have to take blood pH and urine pH.
 
rascal14

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I was going to say, if it is just once in a while you're taking it, it may be better to just get a prescription for Trazadone or a Benzo and use it sparingly when needed.
 

2kvette

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I was going to say, if it is just once in a while you're taking it, it may be better to just get a prescription for Trazadone or a Benzo and use it sparingly when needed.
^^^This is a great idea. trazodone, ambien, xanax. A low as needed dose would be perfect of any of these. talk to your prescriber about that.
 
rascal14

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^^^This is a great idea. trazodone, ambien, xanax. A low as needed dose would be perfect of any of these. talk to your prescriber about that.
I took one of my moms Trazadone and slept amazing that night. I have Klonopin for anxiety attacks and insomnia that I use as needed. I have been taking 2mg of Klonopin Sunday nights before bed and I am in a great mood and motivated for the next couple of days. I'm not sure if it is because I get good sleep, or am just less anxious, or a combination. But, I love it and it works great for if I can't fall asleep.

I never take it more than once a week, though. The 2mg makes me too foggy and out of it to leave the house, so I just relax and watch tv before bed. I sometimes end up more motivated afterwards which is weird but I still sleep great.

I assume this means I have some underlying issue that likely needs to be addressed lol
 

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