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Trt ?

mase1

Well-known member
So 46 years old and wife is on the pellet so I figure my turn. Many cycle under my belt. Did full health and hormone panel. Everything perfect luckily and my test came in at 750 in a 820 max scale. Does this mean my trt dose is going to have to be high as I'm not low testosterone... I know most will say you don't need it but the difference for me dosing 250ng a week and 900mg epiandro a day is a completely different look and feel. Now how would 200mg a week feel I'm not sure but plan to find out.
 
Total Testosterone is pretty much a meaningless measurement. You need to look at Free T, which at your age I doubt is going to be at the top of the range.

For example, depending on your SHBG you could easily have Total T at the top of the range and Free T all the way at the bottom, that was the case for me and a source of confusion when I was suffering from symptoms of low T and looking for treatment.

Somehow even though it's been known for a long time now that Free T is the measurement that matters when it comes to diagnosing hypogonadism, most people - including doctors and AAS users who should know better - still use Total T as a diagnosis tool.

Make sure you get the equilibrium dialysis assay if you can, it's the most precise measurement for Free T.
 
mase1 said:
So 46 years old and wife is on the pellet so I figure my turn. Many cycle under my belt. Did full health and hormone panel. Everything perfect luckily and my test came in at 750 in a 820 max scale. Does this mean my trt dose is going to have to be high as I'm not low testosterone... I know most will say you don't need it but the difference for me dosing 250ng a week and 900mg epiandro a day is a completely different look and feel. Now how would 200mg a week feel I'm not sure but plan to find out.
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Your in the mid upper range and at your age your testosterone is higher then average. Trt will be a waste of time for you. Your not going to see even the slightest difference going from 750-950 and your more likely to shut down your own natural production just to replace it with about the same amount. Trt is almost pointless in yiur case. Boron can raise your free testosterone as a otc option.
 
AnabolicKind said:
Total Testosterone is pretty much a meaningless measurement. You need to look at Free T, which at your age I doubt is going to be at the top of the range.

For example, depending on your SHBG you could easily have Total T at the top of the range and Free T all the way at the bottom, that was the case for me and a source of confusion when I was suffering from symptoms of low T and looking for treatment.

Somehow even though it's been known for a long time now that Free T is the measurement that matters when it comes to diagnosing hypogonadism, most people - including doctors and AAS users who should know better - still use Total T as a diagnosis tool.

Make sure you get the equilibrium dialysis assay if you can, it's the most precise measurement for Free T.
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Total t is not meaningless at all. But a combination of total, free and e2 is more important then just total t. Yiu want everything in a high healthy range
 
Smont said:
Your in the mid upper range and at your age your testosterone is higher then average. Trt will be a waste of time for you. Your not going to see even the slightest difference going from 750-950 and your more likely to shut down your own natural production just to replace it with about the same amount. Trt is almost pointless in yiur case. Boron can raise your free testosterone as a otc option.
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This is incorrect. TT doesn't have any diagnostic value when it comes to determining whether someone is hypogonadal or not.

Also, the idea that lowering SHBG will "free up" more Test is a misconception. SHBG acts as a reservoir, a high TT just indicates a high reservoir capacity, not that the testicles are producing a lot of Testosterone, of which more would be bioavailable if only SHBG were lowered.

Lowering SHBG with Boron will only lower TT and increase the FT percentage since it will lower the TT/FT ratio, but it will not increase FT.

Smont said:
Total t is not meaningless at all. But a combination of total, free and e2 is more important then just total t. Yiu want everything in a high healthy range
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What is the value of Total T, then? Please explain
 
AnabolicKind said:
This is incorrect. TT doesn't have any diagnostic value when it comes to determining whether someone is hypogonadal or not.

Also, the idea that lowering SHBG will "free up" more Test is a misconception. SHBG acts as a reservoir, a high TT just indicates a high reservoir capacity, not that the testicles are producing a lot of Testosterone, of which more would be bioavailable if only SHBG were lowered.

Lowering SHBG with Boron will only lower TT and increase the FT percentage since it will lower the TT/FT ratio, but it will not increase FT.



What is the value of Total T, then? Please explain
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Everything, we'll not everything, but most of it you just said my doc would disagree with, my bloodwork would disagree with so ya👌
 
Smont said:
Everything, we'll not everything, but most of it you just said my doc would disagree with, my bloodwork would disagree with so ya👌
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I'm not surprised, most doctors are clueless when it comes to hormones, even so called "experts".

Nice appeal to authority though, while completely avoiding addressing the points I made.
 
AnabolicKind said:
I'm not surprised, most doctors are clueless when it comes to hormones, even so called "experts".

Nice appeal to authority though, while completely avoiding addressing the points I made.
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The Points you made or not correct, I know exactly what I'm talking about And I do not feel obligated to give you the brand new person here with 2 posts I know nothing about a long detailed explanation of why i'm right and your wrong, because You'll probably disappear from the forums in less than two weeks anyways. You can think whatever you want and carry on. It's not my job to give you free lessons.
 
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AnabolicKind said:
I'm not surprised, most doctors are clueless when it comes to hormones, even so called "experts".

Nice appeal to authority though, while completely avoiding addressing the points I made.
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You might want to take a look at @Smont Physique before you say something like thar. The man helped me get to 210 sub 10% b.f. and I'm only 5'10" btw he's one of the most anti authority anti establishment person I know. He's a board rep for a research chemical company, I don't know how more anti doctor you can be. You might just want to kick back and lurk for a while on here. Just some advice
 
Mikereyn513 said:
You might want to take a look at @Smont Physique before you say something like thar.
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Completely irrelevant. It's another form of appeal to authority, and one that makes even less sense than appealing to a doctor's authority.

You might just want to kick back and lurk for a while on here. Just some advice
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I'm not concerned with your advice, which is based on nothing tangible but some admiration for another man's physique that has you incapable of clear and objective reasoning.

Saying "TRT will be a waste of time for you" based on a single Total T measurement is actually dangerous and potentially life changing advice, not to mention completely incorrect, so I stated my disagreement the way @Smont did with my original statement. From there, OP can make up his own mind about the subject.

Isn't that how online forum discussions should go? Everyone states their opinion, backed by more or less scientific knowledge, and then those reading can make up their own mind. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to interject without contributing anything to the discussion beyond some kind of tribal allegiance instinct. I don't think @Smont really needed your support either.

We're done here, hopefully OP will do some more research on his own and act accordingly. No need to clog the thread further
 
AnabolicKind said:
Completely irrelevant. It's another form of appeal to authority, and one that makes even less sense than appealing to a doctor's authority.



I'm not concerned with your advice, which is based on nothing tangible but some admiration for another man's physique that has you incapable of clear and objective reasoning.

Saying "TRT will be a waste of time for you" based on a single Total T measurement is actually dangerous and potentially life changing advice, not to mention completely incorrect, so I stated my disagreement the way @Smont did with my original statement. From there, OP can make up his own mind about the subject.

Isn't that how online forum discussions should go? Everyone states their opinion, backed by more or less scientific knowledge, and then those reading can make up their own mind. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to interject without contributing anything to the discussion beyond some kind of tribal allegiance instinct. I don't think @Smont really needed your support either.

We're done here, hopefully OP will do some more research on his own and act accordingly. No need to clog the thread further
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Oh wow you have this all so so wrong..good luck here @$$,hole you're going to need it I was just trying to help go eff yourself
 
AnabolicKind said:
Completely irrelevant. It's another form of appeal to authority, and one that makes even less sense than appealing to a doctor's authority.



I'm not concerned with your advice, which is based on nothing tangible but some admiration for another man's physique that has you incapable of clear and objective reasoning.

Saying "TRT will be a waste of time for you" based on a single Total T measurement is actually dangerous and potentially life changing advice, not to mention completely incorrect, so I stated my disagreement the way @Smont did with my original statement. From there, OP can make up his own mind about the subject.

Isn't that how online forum discussions should go? Everyone states their opinion, backed by more or less scientific knowledge, and then those reading can make up their own mind. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to interject without contributing anything to the discussion beyond some kind of tribal allegiance instinct. I don't think @Smont really needed your support either.

We're done here, hopefully OP will do some more research on his own and act accordingly. No need to clog the thread further
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You come off like a total dick not to mention being a moron.
 
Smont is correct that all three Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and Estrogen levels are all important for numerous health functions throughout the body, including sexual function, muscle building, energy etc.
To try and say only one is important sounds like someone taking their own personal experience where they had normal TT but very low FT, so TRT was a help for them even though TT seemed okay. So with that being their own personal experience makes them assume TT is of no value, but that’s a wrong assumption, and every case is different. And yes not enough medical professionals are up to speed on hormones as they should be, but that doesn’t make our own personal experience the say all end all on the subject, and we suddenly become experts or that all possible scenarios, and the importance of TT, FT, and Estrogen in each scenario could even be explained on a post in a forum.
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And yes, someone could take this article and take a section out of context to support their argument, but that’s the same as saying only the FT measurement is important no others are. Just like in this article all the information is important, so is TT, FT, and Estrogen in the body.
 
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gphagan1 said:
Smont is correct that all three Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and Estrogen levels are all important for numerous health functions throughout the body, including sexual function, muscle building, energy etc.
To try and say only one is important sounds like someone taking their own personal experience where they had normal TT but very low FT, so TRT was a help for them even though TT seemed okay. So with that being their own personal experience makes them assume TT is of no value, but that’s a wrong assumption, and every case is different. And yes not enough medical professionals are up to speed on hormones as they should be, but that doesn’t make our own personal experience the say all end all on the subject, and we suddenly become experts or that all possible scenarios, and the importance of TT, FT, and Estrogen in each scenario could even be explained on a post in a forum.
Invalid Link Removed

And yes, someone could take this article and take a section out of context to support their argument, but that’s the same as saying only the FT measurement is important no others are. Just like in this article all the information is important, so is TT, FT, and Estrogen in the body.
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That's the whole reason I chose to ignore him. I could tell he's using a limited amount of personal experience to make his argument and that he's actually looking to "argue" about the topic. The topic is so wide open and there's 50 million studies you can use properly or you could cherry pick the ones you want so you could argue back and forth indefinitely. Also his little spew on Boron and not being able to increase free T being false was enough to show he doesn't have a clue. You can literally find thousands of ppl who used Boron and that pathway to raise free testosterone. Back when Dante Trudel was making DC training popular all his guys were using Boron to raise free Testosterone and there was more then enough bloodwork to prove its effectiveness. My own bloodwork has proved its effectiveness.
 
Smont said:
That's the whole reason I chose to ignore him. I could tell he's using a limited amount of personal experience to make his argument and that he's actually looking to "argue" about the topic. The topic is so wide open and there's 50 million studies you can use properly or you could cherry pick the ones you want so you could argue back and forth indefinitely. Also his little spew on Boron and not being able to increase free T being false was enough to show he doesn't have a clue. You can literally find thousands of ppl who used Boron and that pathway to raise free testosterone. Back when Dante Trudel was making DC training popular all his guys were using Boron to raise free Testosterone and there was more then enough bloodwork to prove its effectiveness. My own bloodwork has proved its effectiveness.
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Yep, and the blood work doesn’t lie….like you said Boron has been used for years to raise free test and probably thousands in that time that have had blood work showing it’s effectiveness.
 
gphagan1 said:
Yep, and the blood work doesn’t lie….like you said Boron has been used for years to raise free test and probably thousands in that time that have had blood work showing it’s effectiveness.
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I had him blocked so I wouldn't see his responses but I took a look and he's trying to put a play on words to make himself sound right. No1 ever said total test was the sole or most important measure for trt. He completely made up something that no1 said to try to make himself sound correct 😆 🤣 😂
 
Smont said:
No1 ever said total test was the sole or most important measure for trt. He completely made up something that no1 said to try to make himself sound correct 😆🤣😂
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Laugh all you want (using emojis, really?), but you said this: "Your in the mid upper range and at your age your testosterone is higher then average. Trt will be a waste of time for you".

Clearly you were able to diagnose the OP and assess that TRT will be completely useless for him based solely on his Total T measurement. Wouldn't that indicate that Total T is the "sole or most important measurement for trt"? Or did you casually give completely life changing advice while missing important information (Free T, for ex)?

It's funny to me to see so many men completely unable to handle being questioned and having zero independent thought, I honestly feel I'm having a discussion with a bunch of women. You must go through life with people just nodding at you all the time in approval.

What you're accusing me of - "He completely made up something that no1 said to try to make himself sound correct 😆🤣😂" - is exactly what you're doing, whereas I just quoted what you said verbatim.
 
AnabolicKind said:
It's funny to me to see so many men completely unable to handle being questioned and having zero independent thought, I honestly feel I'm having a discussion with a bunch of women. You must go through life with people just nodding at you all the time in approval.
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Wow, women don’t have independent thoughts? You sound like a cool guy.
 
Usually when 37 ppl are disagreeing with you and zero people agree with you, it means your wrong. You sound like a fukin tard trying to argue with everyone while changing people's words around to make yourself sound correct. Welcome to the forum tho. I'm sure this place is a great fit for you and I can't wait to see what other kind of wonderful ideas you have to contribute here.
 
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