Sparkss
Well-known member
I has been almost 2 months on the new protocol. Any updates? Thanks!
TRT
- Thread starter The_Old_Guy
- Start date
I has been almost 2 months on the new protocol. Any updates? Thanks!
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I'm traveling A LOT this summer, sorry for the delay (and I'm leaving again soon, LOL) - Still at 100mg SubQ, with 12.5mg 2x/week pharma Aromasin. Planning on running down to Labcorp when I get back from this next trip to confirm/adjust - but everything I can notice anecdotally seems fine, re: Libido, sleep, mood, motivation etc... That says nothing about anything related to lipids, prostate, blood cells, etc... so the bloodwork is a priority.
(Reply's may be delayed)
Sparkss
Well-known member
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
SubQ works great. After 6 months my stabilized levels at 100mg dropped after that (ill advised, too soon) blood test my original doc ran after just 2 weeks (body is still producing it's own - not fully suppressed). My "Trough" (lowest level before next shot that night) Total T was 550 and Free T was 1 point above lowest "normal" level. E2 was 14. SHBG was in the upper range. My original guy didn't want to hear about adjusting the dosage and actually "fired" me, LOL (I suspect he thought I was planning on entering the Mr. Olympia or something - he wasn't too "with it" re TRT). Best thing in the world - I'm now with Dr. Crisler :thumbsup:
Sparkss
Well-known member
Looks like your E2 is staying under control too. Great to hear!
I go in to see my doctor next Friday. I already sent the lab results showing that the pellets have worn off. We will see how well he handles everything and if he writes the new script as readily as he implied he would. Otherwise I will be shopping for a new doctor myself.
Being with Dr. Crisler, do you get the test from him? Or from your local pharmacy? How much does he charge for the refills? (IE: for calling in a prescription refill, if that is what they do). Thanks!
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
The E2 level was with 12.5mg Aromasin 2x/week - don't forget that.
He will do whatever you want him to do - you can use the Compounding Pharmacy he uses (flat rate shipping fee). Or have him FAX in a script to Walgreen's for $20 and use GoodRx for the Testosterone. If you just need the Test, FAXing the script is the cheapest. If you go with, and need everything for his recommended protocol (Testosterone, Anastrozole, DHEA/Preg Topical, and hCG) then the best value would be the compounding pharmacy.
FYI after just going through this: Walgreens is the best for Test, but not for anything else - they are highest for Anastrolzole. Kroger ($6) was best for Anastrozole (or Sam's Club if you are already a $100/year member of their Rx Club - it's $4). hCG is the compounding pharmacy all the way. So while I didn't do it this time, I think the next order will be everything from the compounding pharmacy.
Sparkss
Well-known member
So it is $20 for each refill? How long are his scripts good for? (dosage wise). You mentioned he will supply/prescribe the Arimidex (Anastrolzole), but then you mentioned using Exemestane (sefl-supplied/RC?). I am just curious, do you dose the AI the day of, or day after your shots?
I use OL Sup3r-DHEA for my DHEA/Pregnenolone (topical). I wonder how that compares price wise to what he supplies. I can get the Sup3r-DHEA for $30 for a 240 day supply (at TRT adjunct dosage).
I have not been worried too much about HCG, not looking to have more kids and to be frank, not really that concerned with what my "beans" look like. (pardon the "frank and beans" pun
).I am asking all of these questions as I want to know what my options are if my doctor flakes on me. I want to know what all of my options are going into the appointment, so I can decide if/when to walk if things go sideways.
What should I search for to look up his site? (or post a link, but not sure if that is allowed). I recall there was an upfront cost to "get started" with them, but not a deal breaker. How long after you sent in your blood work and startup fee did you get the script/test from them? Just wondering how long it took them to onboard you to his practice. Thanks for sharing all of this!
mike33511
Well-known member
So it is $20 for each refill? How long are his scripts good for? (dosage wise). You mentioned he will supply/prescribe the Arimidex (Anastrolzole), but then you mentioned using Exemestane (sefl-supplied/RC?). I am just curious, do you dose the AI the day of, or day after your shots?
I use OL Sup3r-DHEA for my DHEA/Pregnenolone (topical). I wonder how that compares price wise to what he supplies. I can get the Sup3r-DHEA for $30 for a 240 day supply (at TRT adjunct dosage).
I have not been worried too much about HCG, not looking to have more kids and to be frank, not really that concerned with what my "beans" look like. (pardon the "frank and beans" pun
I am asking all of these questions as I want to know what my options are if my doctor flakes on me. I want to know what all of my options are going into the appointment, so I can decide if/when to walk if things go sideways.
What should I search for to look up his site? (or post a link, but not sure if that is allowed). I recall there was an upfront cost to "get started" with them, but not a deal breaker. How long after you sent in your blood work and startup fee did you get the script/test from them? Just wondering how long it took them to onboard you to his practice. Thanks for sharing all of this!
Fck the pellets, man. Look into getting with Crisler like The_Old_Guy or get with Entourage Medical, the board sponsor.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Thanks, if you read up my posts that is exactly what I am doing (ditching the pellets, that is).
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
At 120mg/wk, a 10ml vial will last 16 weeks (4 months) plus 80mg left over - so yes, it would be 3 FAXed Rx's with a $20 fee each year. BUT - Walgreens is so cheap for Watson Testosterone, that is still your best deal *if that is all you need*. Once you start adding any other stuff, just going with the Compounding Pharmacy is probably the cheapest - even though they are a bit more cost wise, as you don't pay the FAX fee (but there is a flat rate shipping fee).
The LAW regulates refills on controlled substances - there ain't any, LOL - but he does refills on the AI. Anything from the Compounding Pharmacy you can just order online through his web portal - but the Test law still applies.
You can use GoodRx to see if CVS or Kroger would be better for the AI and Test together, I didn't look - It sucks that Walgreens is best for Test, but worst for Arimidex.
Yes, I have a 90 week supply of Indian Rx Exemestane that I had previously. Crisler prefers Arimidex though and I didn't feel like rocking the boat, I'm just switching. My HDL was 90 on this last test, so I don't think Adex will hurt my lipids too much, LOL!
He likes daily 100iu hCG for reasons other than fertility - best I can advise is to listen to a recent Superhuman Radio podcast that he and Carl did on the subject.
Yes, the initial consult fee is $595 - after that it's $75/visit and he only requires a minimum of 2 consultations per year to remain an active patient. He said PrivateMDLabs or DiscountedLabs can be used for bloodwork, but I'm not sure *exactly* how that works yet - I'll know in 3 weeks. I had my Rx filled the same day I met him, at my local Walgreens - I saw him at Noon.
I'm also using SuperDHEA. He wasn't familiar with it, but said we'll know how it does in three weeks. I was 140 out of 375 on DHEA-S before starting it.
Just go to his site and look at the tabs on the side - there is a "New Patient" one, or something like that, that spells it out. You basically download all the forms, print them out, and either FAX or mail them in (you can email them and see if they'll take them via email - I was in a hurry and just FAX'd). Then go pay the $595 and you'll get an appointment date via email. YMMV if you are not local though - no idea how he handles far away peeps other than you can fly in, or he can work with your open minded local doc. Not sure he does 100% remote - but you can ask.
Bottom line is if you have a totally hip local guy that is in the know - that is ideal and the cheapest. Anything else costs more money if you want to do it legally. After dealing with a very limited knowledge local doc, I have no problem paying more - the reduction in stress is worth it alone (my local doc must have mentioned the "DEA" and "Normal Lab Ranges" about 1000 times - it was so frustrating).
kenpoengineer
Well-known member
Interesting prices. For comparison, check out Entourage Hormones as well. Testosterone cypionate, Anastrozole, HCG and syringes for $114 a month.
Sparkss
Well-known member
IF my doc follows through on writing my script to switch from pellets to test cyp shots then it will come out to $30 per month for all of the above, minus the HCG though.
Defy medical seems to be decent for pricing also, $150 on-boarding fee then $25 to fax a script to my pharmacy, although I think that is only for Fl residents. but I am not exploring any of those options until I exhaust my current local doctor ones. He seems open to it, but I know he strongly prefers pellets (a lot more $$ in his pocket), so I am just not sure how difficult he is going to make it. I will know Friday morning.
skinnybones
Well-known member
Sub'd
Sparkss
Well-known member
got the script from my doctor today, but he wrote it for 100 mg/ml, 1 ml per week (single shot). So many things wrong with that. Right now no pharmacies carry the 100 mg/ml dosage. CVS just said "we have to order it", Walgreens suggested changing to the 200 mg/ml and even offered to call my doctor for me. He updated the prescription over the phone and they filled it right there. But they appear to only have the 1ml vials, and also would only sell a 3 month supply at one time (he wrote it for a 6 month supply). However it was only $14.29 for the 3 month supply (6 1 ml vials). First shot done (didn't want to wait until Sunday ). Since I am a little late for the Thursday dose I only injected .2 ml. I also noticed that I left a little in the syringe (I could squeeze out 3 drops into the sink afterwards). But all things considered it was easier and less painful than I expected. I used the 25g 5/8" from Walgreens (my mail order box has not yet arrived). I did not feel it at all when I injected it (into my butt cheek), but it did bleed a little afterwards. And it also a little sore, I think because I was twisted around injecting and may have moved the needle around too much after insertion, while injecting the oil.
My doc also did not want to prescribe an AI, insisting that I just stick with my daily DIM that he started me on when I started the pellets last year. I have some exemestane from an Indian pharmacy, so I should be covered. But hopefully I will not need it. We will see. I know that I never needed it on the pellets, and those kept my test right around 600, give or take, which was the sweet spot for me. More than that and I actually started to feel bad. (up above the 900 ~ 1000 range).
). Since I am a little late for the Thursday dose I only injected .2 ml. I also noticed that I left a little in the syringe (I could squeeze out 3 drops into the sink afterwards). But all things considered it was easier and less painful than I expected. I used the 25g 5/8" from Walgreens (my mail order box has not yet arrived). I did not feel it at all when I injected it (into my butt cheek), but it did bleed a little afterwards. And it also a little sore, I think because I was twisted around injecting and may have moved the needle around too much after insertion, while injecting the oil.My doc also did not want to prescribe an AI, insisting that I just stick with my daily DIM that he started me on when I started the pellets last year. I have some exemestane from an Indian pharmacy, so I should be covered. But hopefully I will not need it. We will see. I know that I never needed it on the pellets, and those kept my test right around 600, give or take, which was the sweet spot for me. More than that and I actually started to feel bad. (up above the 900 ~ 1000 range).
mike33511
Well-known member
got the script from my doctor today, but he wrote it for 100 mg/ml, 1 ml per week (single shot). So many things wrong with that. Right now no pharmacies carry the 100 mg/ml dosage. CVS just said "we have to order it", Walgreens suggested changing to the 200 mg/ml and even offered to call my doctor for me. He updated the prescription over the phone and they filled it right there. But they appear to only have the 1ml vials, and also would only sell a 3 month supply at one time (he wrote it for a 6 month supply). However it was only $14.29 for the 3 month supply (6 1 ml vials). First shot done (didn't want to wait until Sunday
My doc also did not want to prescribe an AI, insisting that I just stick with my daily DIM that he started me on when I started the pellets last year. I have some exemestane from an Indian pharmacy, so I should be covered. But hopefully I will not need it. We will see. I know that I never needed it on the pellets, and those kept my test right around 600, give or take, which was the sweet spot for me. More than that and I actually started to feel bad. (up above the 900 ~ 1000 range).
5/8" is pretty short for a glute injection. I would go with 1" at least. 5/8" would be perfect for injecting subQ though.
Sparkss
Well-known member
yup, sub-Q.
kenpoengineer
Well-known member
Interesting. I use a 25 g 5/8" to glutes without issue. Most comfortable size for injection I've found.
mike33511
Well-known member
It depends how lean you are, I guess. The glutes are a fatty area, in general, so I'd be worried about not reaching the muscle. Not hitting the muscle is a common cause of PIP.
kisaj
Legend
As do I. 5/8" into the glute for the last 5 years. Started with the 1" spear and there was just no need.
But then, my ass is nothing but rock solid muscle. lol
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
He's doing SubQ - 5/8" is more than enough - I do 3/8" at a 45'ish degree angle.
Since you are already on pellets with stable levels (suppressed) - you will definitely see how 100mg/week treats you (50mg 2x/week?). When is your next blood draw?
Weird on the Walgreen's/CVS issue with 10ml vials of Watson... that is *the* most common product.
If your using a "Slip Tip" syringe, yes, you will have waste - it adds up. They make a 1 piece 5/8" Tuberculin syringe that Auto-Retracts the needle - it is cool AF, and no waste. The ones I got local were "Vanish Point", but other mfgs make them under different names.
Since you are already on pellets with stable levels (suppressed) - you will definitely see how 100mg/week treats you (50mg 2x/week?). When is your next blood draw?
Weird on the Walgreen's/CVS issue with 10ml vials of Watson... that is *the* most common product.
If your using a "Slip Tip" syringe, yes, you will have waste - it adds up. They make a 1 piece 5/8" Tuberculin syringe that Auto-Retracts the needle - it is cool AF, and no waste. The ones I got local were "Vanish Point", but other mfgs make them under different names.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Thanks. The ones I got from the pharmacy were actually luer lock needles. Right now I have some one-piece needles being delivered today, but also have the luer lock w/ needles as a stand-by. the only advantage that I see to the luer locks (or slips) is 1. easier to find the combination of barrel and needle I want and 2. I can load with 1 needle (bigger) and inject with another, smaller one. (that also was not blunted by the draw, but to be honest I didn't feel like I needed that yesterday when I drew and injected with the same one.
And yea, I will see how stable my test and e2 levels are with this change. My next blood draw is not for at least another month (shooting for 6 weeks). My doctor doesn't even want to see me back until my current prescription is running out, basically in 6 months, so any blood draws between now and then are up to me (which is how I like it anyways).
I saw those auto-retract ones, they also are the ones I got from my pharmacy (.40 each). Which is pretty close to what they cost online. I saw the "safety-retractable" ones for 33.95 per box of 100, then add in shipping and it is pretty close. At least when I buy it locally it is easier to use my HSA card to pay for them, versus having to file a claim and produce receipts for using the online stores, and even then I can't claim shipping either.
EDIT: Looking at the receipt 1. they did not charge me taxes on the syringes, 2. they pre-approved them for HSA (separate line that noted the amount of the bill that was HSA approved) and 3. there is a line under the syringes about "return value" that matched the cost, so maybe they have an exchange program? (I need to call and follow up on that, but I may only need to pay once for needles and just keep exchanging when I get my refills).
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I'd just draw with the 25 or 26G - it works fine for me, just takes a few seconds more... but whatever you like best! 
justhere4comm
Banned
I'd just draw with the 25 or 26G - it works fine for me, just takes a few seconds more... but whatever you like best!
I just ordered some retractable needles because of your recommendation. Got the 'Vanishing point', but BD has some really cool looking retractable as well, I'm obsessed now. Thanks. lol. My other needles are "Luer Lock" and I can always swap out the shorter needle for longer if the need one day arises.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
No prob - with my last Doc who thought the DEA was going to raid his office if he refilled the Rx even 1 hour early - I had to find a 1 piece to save on the wasted T in the slip-tips. Those VanishPoint fit the bill nicely. I'm actually using an odd one now, because I wanted 26G 3/8" 1 Piece - It's designed for Allergy Testing, comes 25 to a tray for about $3.85 and has an Intra-dermal Bevel - works fine.
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Sparkss
Well-known member
I ordered some from them that were supposed to be one-piece, but they were actually slip-tip. I may have missed it in the description, but wanted to share to read the description very carefully.
Sparkss
Well-known member
I gave the slip-tips a try yesterday afternoon. They were 26g 1/2" I was able to get my shot in just before losing power (until just a short while ago). I was able to draw and inject with the 26g and it didn't bleed like the 25g did, although neither really hurt. I almost didn't even feel the 26g needle when it went in.
FNF5989
Member
Takes roughy 15cc's to cause an air embolus...you'll probably be fine lol. Obviously don't add a bunch of air and try to get it all out, but just a fun fact for you
Nac
Well-known member
Injecting this way, its unlikely any air will make it past the needle tip; youll hear a 'fart' noise as the air escapes out the end of the syringe/barrel right where the needle screws in/attaches (as you get to the end of the shot). So youll drain the barrel of Texas Tea, but there will be a minute amount in the actual needle (like, fukn minute).
Sparkss
Well-known member
I solved the problem by finding "zero-dead space" syringes. They are about the same price as the "normal" ones with the "dead space". The "one-piece" syringes also have minimal to no "dead space" (a syringe term).
I did my first two injections (over a month ago now, give or take) using a 25g 5/8" 3cc needle. It didn't really hurt, but left a drop of blood (not that that is an issue, just leading up to my next set of comments). It was also hard to read the markings for my small (.25cc) shot. My next ones were with 26g 3/8" 1cc needle. No pain, no blood drop afterwards and easy to read the markings and hit my target dose. Draw was easy and quick enough. I had a 27g 1/2" needle tip that fit (luger lock) onto one of my "new" zero-dead space syringes (1cc), so I used that this morning. It took another second or two to fill the syringe, but injection was painless and easy enough and again the markings were easier to read for my target dose. The test oil was room temperature for all injections. I didn't both to warm it up at all, and it drew and injected just fine. All injections were sub-q in my buttocks cheek.
So if I had any recommendations to pass along it would be
1. Go for a syringe that is close to your target dosage (IE: 3cc is too big for a .25cc dose, 1cc is much better)
2. Find a zero-dead space syringe. I found a box on Amazon pretty cheap. This minimizes waste and avoids trying to guess how much air to add to a draw. (box of 100 zero-dead space luger lock syringes runs about $10 from Amz Prime, possibly cheaper elsewhere)
3. You can buy a box of needles (separately) to fit onto the syringe to find the gauge that works best for you. (box of 100 needles runs about $7)
*When you buy a "complete" needle, it is usually just a luger slip syringe with a needle added on. So not really much in the way of savings versus "lego"ing your own to fit your precise needs.
Just sharing my experience so far. Cheers.
Burnfire
Well-known member
Hey guys I know this is an older post but there is some good information in here. I had a question about my current TRT protocol from my doctor. I'm doing 200mg test cyp a week, 250iu of HCG × 3 days a week and 1mg of adex as well. Why he started me out so high on the test no clue? After reading around I want to mess with my test range from 100-150mg a week. I've been reading about smaller more frequent injections like EOD for the test. For the hcg I've been seeing 100mcg ED or some do 375-500mcg 2 days a week.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Is there a reason why you want to change your protocal? If so what is it?
Burnfire
Well-known member
E2 is really high and causing pre-existing gyno to flare up. He has me on nolva 20mg a day as well but I've been holding off on taking it. I've split my 1mg adex into quarters and take 1 quater e3d. My hematocrit and red blood cell count were both high. My test levels were 1399. I don't have insurance as of yet so I'm trying to do what I can without spending the most money. Goodrx has helped out so much though!
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Mine was too last time, I think it may be from the ADEX...? Total T at only 900
kisaj
Legend
Yeah, that isn't surprising as your doc doesn't really seem to know what they are doing. He threw the kitchen sink at you and now you need to figure out how to manage it, instead of starting you low and not adding in additional variables unless necessary.
He has you on high dose TRT, a lot of HCG and this is causing your e2 to skyrocket, so he is then trying to control that with an AI and then threw in a SERM for good measure. LOL,
First move- get the hell away from him and his clinic. When do you get insurance? You need to see a good endo preferably but the other option could be through a good clinic. You need to be treated for your individual needs, not some "one size fits all" protocol.
Burnfire
Well-known member
Hopefully have insurance in the next two months. Yes as I'm finding out he was just making money. I have been looking around my area for other doctors that I can go to. My thing is if I have to find a new Doctor Who are they going to make me go back down to Baseline
kisaj
Legend
Generally not unless they feel that there is something else underlying and want to baseline to retest everything. We don't know any of your starting issues/symptoms or what was done to determine you needed to be on TRT. Now, if they do feel this could be corrected via other channels ie. clomid or HCG "restart", then they will do a 30 day wash out in most cases and have you start at baseline.
In any case, it's better to have a temporary setback and do it right than to chase this for years or life.
Burnfire
Well-known member
Ok well what should I look for in a doctor I guess when I'm looking for a good one?
Sparkss
Well-known member
To avoid having to go back down to baseline just make sure that you have a copy of all of your past tests, that were used to "qualify" you for TRT in the first place. That plus any existing prescriptions are usually enough for a new doctor to write you a new prescription. As for what to look for, there is a web page called health grades, or something like that. I had an option to go to an endo or just change my GP to one that would prescribe TRT (it is requiring more fed paperwork these days, from what I was told, and not all GPs want to deal with it). On the health grades page for the doctor it will list if they handle hypogonadism and/or prescribe TRT/test. It took me going to 2 doctors before I found one that would do what I needed/wanted. I also like going to a GP for it because it is cheaper than the visits to an endo and some insurance policies require a referral to a specialist too, which means at least 1 visit to a GP.
bradleyt1
Active member
Sorry you think I’m a knuckle head because I gave you my opinion on a dose. Been on trt myself for years and am not new to the game.
Burnfire
Well-known member
I understand the normal ranges you try to be in and have looked at many sources on doses for my protocol. I also have some good knowledge on AAS and the doses of each. I agree that 400mg would be a nice cycle dose.. I would run some deca with it. Personally for me even on cycle I've tried the craziest stuff I could find and pushed to the on mg's. I say that to say I know like the idea of lower doses with a few compounds working together.
Burnfire
Well-known member
I just have to ask if you have ever ran a cycle what is your mg for your test if your trt is 400? Do you leave you test the same during cycle? What are your numbers at that level for test and e2? I only ask because at 200mg and some hcg I had decent test numbers.