TRT. Low estrogen? Poor aromatiser?

[BBiceps]

. I even got my partner into doing this. At first they were very defensive and stubborn at the idea. I managed to get them to do it for just one week and they have never went back to their old routine.

How many partners do you have?

 

[BBiceps]

A big consideration is, are you getting good sleep? I do now generally that I have a CPAP, so the caffeine is more for performance or pleasure. I do not need that much, and I don’t HAVE to have caffeine right when I wake up. I can take an hour or two and wait til I start my work if I need.

But the caffeine helps my work and my training, so it’s generally present.

Sleep is not the best but it doesn’t matter the intake of stims, it’s sh*t with or without

 

[LeanEngineer]

Sleep is not the best but it doesn’t matter the intake of stims, it’s sh*t with or without

Same I always wish sleep was a timer. You set your timer and you fall asleep exactly you when go to bed and wake up when your timer expires

 

[bell1986]

From my past experience (with myself) you can't really cut back on caffeine and regain sensitivity. You gotta completely cut it out for a while. Then reintroduce slowly and eventually your gonna be right back where you started. It's kinda like most every other drug. If your doing coke, dope or drinking until intoxicated or high, 7 nights a week, and cut down on the total amount used, your just going to be less drunk or high, but your not going to reset anything. If you quit for month, it's a different story.

Caffeine is a drug, a very addictive drug. How many ladies are raging psychopaths if they don't get there morning coffee .

Yes and no.

Less caffeine would cause less cortisol/norepinephrine/dopamine spikes which would definitely be an overall benefit. Alot of people's fatigue could actually be from their caffeine intake. Hammering your adrenal glands with disregulated cortisol spikes will cause fatigue after a while.

I've personally been at this stage. Drink a cup of coffee and go for a sleep. I have done a cortisol saliva test years ago during my high caffeine intake and I also done one this year on less caffeine and my cortisol rhythm was much better on the low caffeine intake. This is me though and I can't say this for everyone.

For me. Less caffeine = Much more energy. I've also read loads of stories of people quitting caffeine and after the withdrawals they notice that they feel much more energy.

How many partners do you have?

Now that would be telling

That damn trenbolone.......

 

[bell1986]

Sleep is not the best but it doesn’t matter the intake of stims, it’s sh*t with or without

Aw sh*t

Just double check what supplements your using. Their are loads that you might think are being a positive but their destroying your sleep.

#1 is creatine. If I take creatine I have the worst insomnia ever. If you research creatine and Sam-e methylation. It's complicated but it will explain everything.

#2 Magnesium Bisglycinate. The magnesium part is fine but the glycine can cause very bad insomnia for alot of people.

That's just 2 basic ones. I was taking both and had the worst insomnia ever. Be lucky to get 2-3 hours of broken sleep a night.

I've tried them separate also and it's the same.

Since quitting I get 8 hours every night. I even have all my smart watch logs of on/off these supplements. I always get a perfect sleep score. It's always 90+.

 

[Smont]

Yes and no.

Less caffeine would cause less cortisol/norepinephrine/dopamine spikes which would definitely be an overall benefit. Alot of people's fatigue could actually be from their caffeine intake. Hammering your adrenal glands with disregulated cortisol spikes will cause fatigue after a while.

I've personally been at this stage. Drink a cup of coffee and go for a sleep. I have done a cortisol saliva test years ago during my high caffeine intake and I also done one this year on less caffeine and my cortisol rhythm was much better on the low caffeine intake. This is me though and I can't say this for everyone.

For me. Less caffeine = Much more energy. I've also read loads of stories of people quitting caffeine and after the withdrawals they notice that they feel much more energy.


Now that would be telling

That damn trenbolone.......

I was talking specifically about caffeine sensitivity.

Aw sh*t

Just double check what supplements your using. Their are loads that you might think are being a positive but their destroying your sleep.

#1 is creatine. If I take creatine I have the worst insomnia ever. If you research creatine and Sam-e methylation. It's complicated but it will explain everything.

#2 Magnesium Bisglycinate. The magnesium part is fine but the glycine can cause very bad insomnia for alot of people.

That's just 2 basic ones. I was taking both and had the worst insomnia ever. Be lucky to get 2-3 hours of broken sleep a night.

I've tried them separate also and it's the same.

Since quitting I get 8 hours every night. I even have all my smart watch logs of on/off these supplements. I always get a perfect sleep score. It's always 90+.

I completely disagree with the creatine and the glycine, Glycine is used to help with sleep, not the other way around. And although sam-e supplements can disrupt sleep, and creatine can increase the amount of Sam e available, it's considered a very uncommon side effect for it to cause insomnia, also, creatine has studies showing it helps improve sleep

 

[Hyde]

I was talking specifically about caffeine sensitivity.

I completely disagree with the creatine and the glycine, Glycine is used to help with sleep, not the other way around. And although sam-e supplements can disrupt sleep, and creatine can increase the amount of Sam e available, it's considered a very uncommon side effect for it to cause insomnia, also, creatine has studies showing it helps improve sleep

I literally take mag glycinate to help relax me for sleep in the evening; if I take it too early I’m packing it in early

 

[bell1986]

I was talking specifically about caffeine sensitivity.

I completely disagree with the creatine and the glycine, Glycine is used to help with sleep, not the other way around. And although sam-e supplements can disrupt sleep, and creatine can increase the amount of Sam e available, it's considered a very uncommon side effect for it to cause insomnia, also, creatine has studies showing it helps improve sleep

If you look on the mthfr and or supplements/nootropics section on reddit. Just search creatine insomnia. Honestly theirs pages and pages of people getting insomnia after starting creatine. I see a new post everyday of someone asking why creatine is destroying their sleep. Here is just one post here with numerous people complaining of insomnia. https://www.reddit.com/r/sleep/s/VnWxV4d4A6I personally can't take any creatine at all. I've tried even taking 1g a day and it still causes me issues. Also a co worker last year had just got himself into a gym and he went out and bought all the usuals off the shelf. Whey/Creatine/Multi etc. We we're in the lunch room and he said I've been struggling to sleep these last couple weeks. I asked him what he's changed and all he said was I'm taking creatine and protein shakes and a multi vit. I said. Stop the creatine and see how your sleep is after a few days. He started sleeping perfect again. Obviously this isn't a side effect for everyone but it's 100% an issue for alot of people.

Glycine is touted as a sleep aid but it also causes stimulation in people. Glycine activates the nmda receptor. It also has an impact on glutamate levels. Also if you just check reddit again their are loads of people who have took glycine for sleep and caused insomnia. Here is also another link to glycine causing insomnia in people... https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/s/IIEFRvF8xO

Anything that impacts the methylation system also can be too much for alot of people. Glycine/Creatine are part of this system. Their is also methylated B vitamins ie methyl folate and methylcobalamin. If I touch anything with a methyl donor I feel awful. Anxiety/Insomnia/Depression etc. Alot of people use betaine hcl for digestion. Betaine is TMG (Trimethylglycine). This also can cause insomnia in alot of people.

That's why I always tell someone to check their supplement stack. Try taking breaks to see if maybe their anxiety/insomnia could be caused by an ingredient in any of their stack. Even a multivitamin can make someone feel awful due to methyl folate and methylcobalamin.

I could share loads of research on this. Everyone's genetics are so different. Supplements/Drugs/Medications are shotguns inside the body. Just because it says it will 'Increase ATP' doesn't mean this is all it will do.

An example is. Curcumin. Sold everywhere as an anti inflammatory. Which it does very well. It's also a very powerful iron chelator. It can lower iron stores without someone knowing and they end up very ill and fatigued and their hair falling out etc. Berberine can also cause this same effect.

That's why I always say. If your adding a supplement to your stack only add 1 at a time and wait a few weeks to see if it's causing issues.

Have you done a gene test? 23andme?

 

[BBiceps]

Aw sh*t

Just double check what supplements your using. Their are loads that you might think are being a positive but their destroying your sleep.

#1 is creatine. If I take creatine I have the worst insomnia ever. If you research creatine and Sam-e methylation. It's complicated but it will explain everything.

#2 Magnesium Bisglycinate. The magnesium part is fine but the glycine can cause very bad insomnia for alot of people.

That's just 2 basic ones. I was taking both and had the worst insomnia ever. Be lucky to get 2-3 hours of broken sleep a night.

I've tried them separate also and it's the same.

Since quitting I get 8 hours every night. I even have all my smart watch logs of on/off these supplements. I always get a perfect sleep score. It's always 90+.

Falling asleep is rarely an issue, it’s staying asleep that can be difficult but my main issue is that I don’t give myself enough time to sleep. Majority of the time I try to sleep 8-9hrs in 5hrs… the math doesn’t add up unfortunately I have an busy day that start early (not by choice, kids and work ruin sleeping in) and end late (a bunch of excuses for not sleeping earlier). I should be more reasonable with sleep but I’m popular so I have a lot to do

*Creatine doesn’t effect sleep and magnesium helps sleep for me.

 

[BBiceps]

I literally take mag glycinate to help relax me for sleep in the evening; if I take it too early I’m packing it in early

I like Mag Glycinate but I started to use Magnesium L-Threonate (Magtein), i think it’s better.

 

[Hyde]

I am not disputing at all that people with atypical genetics respond to things differently than the larger majority - I totally believe you experience what you do.

You just said it in a matter of fact way, that creatine and mag glycinate cause insomnia - without stressing that it’s only for a minority. Not dissimilar to how some women experience hairloss on creatine even.

I like Mag Glycinate but I started to use Magnesium L-Threonate (Magtein), i think it’s better.

Yeah I’ve always read that’s superior for most looking for sleep assistance. I really don’t have any sleep issues though, and glycinate is cheaper to get well-absorbed mag, so I use that.

I just think it’s worth mentioning that it definitely makes me more relaxed.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah I’ve always read that’s superior for most looking for sleep assistance. I really don’t have any sleep issues though, and glycinate is cheaper to get well-absorbed mag, so I use that.

I just think it’s worth mentioning that it definitely makes me more relaxed.

Yeah unfortunately it’s more expensive but it feels like you needs less.

Yes, I agree that it make you more relaxed.

 

[mamasi_r]

Here's something I don't think a lot of people know,


Is your free testosterone in range, or low. I feel like we had this conversation but I could be mixing up threads.

Couple things that I can suggest that take little to no extra effort are 1, take your entire injection on the same day once per week this will give you a higher spike in testosterone and cause more aromatase activity. Also, 2. even tho free and bound test can aromatize to estrogen, only free testosterone can actually use the aromatase enzyme, bound testosterone has to be freed up before it can convert. So by getting more free testosterone you can get more conversion.

When you have low levels of free testosterone you typically will also have low estrogen, or you're more likely to at least.

Another option, low dose dbol, 5-10mg

Also your HCG dose was low, try 500 EOD for 2 weeks or so. You will get higher estrogen for sure. You'll probably feel a hell of a lot better a hell of a lot faster with more HCG or a small dose of dbol.

I would think once your estrogen is where you want it to be you could probably lower the dose of HCG back down a little bit to maybe 250 IU 2-3x week

hi brother, ive been on trt for 5months foin 25mg eod, i was doin ok for 4 months till i addedd hcg and started having anick attacks and i was feelin so androgenic it was driving me crazy, i stopped the hcg for 1 month now and im feeling terrible first i thought it was high e2 caused by hch, then i realized my e2 is crashed and all the Testostrone is gettin converted to DHT, i also have low SHBG

currently labs look like this

TT = 490ngdl

FT = 180PGML

E2 = >10

I have all the worst crashed e2 symptoms, i cant up the trt dosage cause it all gets converted to dht and messess with the ratio and i get extremity paranoid and panicky, i cant introduce hcg to my protocol cause the same thing happen.

what are my options right now im goin crazy i think my aromatase activity has downregulate especially after hcg use, is it possible that it changed the metabolic pathway of ly hormones? and converts more to dht and Progesterone and inhibits the conversion to e2?

im lost id really appreciate your help

 

[mamasi_r]

Yeah unfortunately it’s more expensive but it feels like you needs less.

Yes, I agree that it make you more relaxed.

hi brother, ive been on trt for 5months foin 25mg eod, i was doin ok for 4 months till i addedd hcg and started having anick attacks and i was feelin so androgenic it was driving me crazy, i stopped the hcg for 1 month now and im feeling terrible first i thought it was high e2 caused by hch, then i realized my e2 is crashed and all the Testostrone is gettin converted to DHT, i also have low SHBG

currently labs look like this

TT = 490ngdl

FT = 180PGML

E2 = >10

I have all the worst crashed e2 symptoms, i cant up the trt dosage cause it all gets converted to dht and messess with the ratio and i get extremity paranoid and panicky, i cant introduce hcg to my protocol cause the same thing happen.

what are my options right now im goin crazy i think my aromatase activity has downregulate especially after hcg use, is it possible that it changed the metabolic pathway of ly hormones? and converts more to dht and Progesterone and inhibits the conversion to e2?

im lost id really appreciate your help