TRT lab results. Test too high?

[drejb]

Hey guys.

Been on TRT for 2 years now.

Recently lowered dose to

120mg test E
1000IU HCG
.75mg Arimidex

Split to

60 / 500 / .25-.5(alternating)

Twice a week On Monday Morning and Thursday Evening

Bloods were done 72 hours post Monday morning shots

My Total T is sitting at about 1050. (36.5nmol)

Since I’m pinning twice a week I assume I’m coasting around this number or possibly above

Is this a safe zone to be in long term? I feel great. My doc says that it seems fine but he’s not too familiar with the 2x a week method. So he may be coming from a different dip/peak experience with pinning once a week.

CBC looks good

I may lower to 100mg / week see how I feel and request labs in a couple months.

Thoughts?

 

[drejb]

Bump

 

[Quest]

I'm no dr or expert but I would get your estrogen down to the low 30's.

 

[Treasure86]

imo sitting around 1000 is perfect because you'll feel good and you're still well within range. A lot of guys lipids will start to be messed up once your t goes above 1200 (i know mine does)

 

[drejb]

I'm no dr or expert but I would get your estrogen down to the low 30's.

Might up the dose to 1mg / week.

 

[2kvette]

Hey guys.

Been on TRT for 2 years now.

Recently lowered dose to

120mg test E
1000IU HCG
.75mg Arimidex

Split to

60 / 500 / .25-.5(alternating)

Twice a week On Monday Morning and Thursday Evening

Bloods were done 72 hours post Monday morning shots

My Total T is sitting at about 1050. (36.5nmol)

Since I’m pinning twice a week I assume I’m coasting around this number or possibly above

Is this a safe zone to be in long term? I feel great. My doc says that it seems fine but he’s not too familiar with the 2x a week method. So he may be coming from a different dip/peak experience with pinning once a week.

CBC looks good

I may lower to 100mg / week see how I feel and request labs in a couple months.

Thoughts?

View attachment 179211

I'm a pharmacy student, so I see a lot of lab work, just so you know where i'm coming from. But anywayssss; Your testosterone levels are good, your on the higher end of the range but there's really nothing wrong with that or even being a little beyond max range if you feel better, unless your having some symptoms caused by it(Usually out of range E2/Hbg/RBC). Don't let the high free test number scare you b/c its high. All androgens suppress SHBG, so just being on testosterone period will lower it and increase the free fraction exponentially. As far as being safe long term goes, the big risk was thought to be prostate cancer up until just recently, like the last year or two. We've now discovered that testosterone is not responsible for prostate cancer and will not cause it. Some newer meta-analysis showed, IIRC, that lower testosterone and higher E2 had a stronger correlation. In fact, one of the new up and coming treatments in prostate cancer right now is BAT (bipolar androgen therapy). Where they give you mega doses of testosterone to sensitize the cancer to treatment. As far as cardiovascular risk's go, RBC's can get high and thicken the blood, which isn't really a problem as long as your therapy is properly managed. And it would seem that it is based on your CBC. Lastly, those cardiovascular events we hear about, they're usually theorized to be from adverse lipid changes. But this has proved baseless when controlling for people with bad diets and lifestyles in studies.

To prove my point in how rapidly views are changing on this topic, i'll leave you with this snippet authored by Harvard Medical Schools urologist's in the 2016 Mayo Clinic Proceedings.

 

[2kvette]

Just realized I forgot to address your biweekly dosing question. It's a newer protocol that is gaining a lot a traction right now, and I'd have to say I agree with the rationale behind it, and the results. Basically the pharmacokinetic data boils down to this. You take a shot and get a peak that falls rapidly in a day or two. Now if you take smaller doses more often, you will get a lot more of those peaks. Also injecting these tiny doses subq slows the disposition time from the fat so the drug releases into the circulation slower. It takes longer to reach steady state levels this way, but you can use about a 40% lower dose sometimes and achieve the same testosterone level. This allows people take twice weekly doses, 30-50mg every 3-5 days, and still maintain very high levels. Also, E2 seems to be lower with this method and less patients require ancillary anti-estrogen therapy. More and more docs are prescribing it from what i've seen.

 

[Renew1]

2kvette, thank you so much for the info brother.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I'm no dr or expert but I would get your estrogen down to the low 30's.

His estradiol is within range. They used pmol/l as opposed to pg/ml. His estradiol translates roughly to 40pg/ml.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

And as far as your test being too high; that’ll depend on the individual. Your bloodwork looks fine, so it seems that theres no harm in it. My bloodwork is pretty similar to yours overall, and my health is probably better than it was before.

 

[drejb]

I'm a pharmacy student, so I see a lot of lab work, just so you know where i'm coming from. But anywayssss; Your testosterone levels are good, your on the higher end of the range but there's really nothing wrong with that or even being a little beyond max range if you feel better, unless your having some symptoms caused by it(Usually out of range E2/Hbg/RBC). Don't let the high free test number scare you b/c its high. All androgens suppress SHBG, so just being on testosterone period will lower it and increase the free fraction exponentially. As far as being safe long term goes, the big risk was thought to be prostate cancer up until just recently, like the last year or two. We've now discovered that testosterone is not responsible for prostate cancer and will not cause it. Some newer meta-analysis showed, IIRC, that lower testosterone and higher E2 had a stronger correlation. In fact, one of the new up and coming treatments in prostate cancer right now is BAT (bipolar androgen therapy). Where they give you mega doses of testosterone to sensitize the cancer to treatment. As far as cardiovascular risk's go, RBC's can get high and thicken the blood, which isn't really a problem as long as your therapy is properly managed. And it would seem that it is based on your CBC. Lastly, those cardiovascular events we hear about, they're usually theorized to be from adverse lipid changes. But this has proved baseless when controlling for people with bad diets and lifestyles in studies.

To prove my point in how rapidly views are changing on this topic, i'll leave you with this snippet authored by Harvard Medical Schools urologist's in the 2016 Mayo Clinic Proceedings.

View attachment 179272

Thank you so much for all the info.

I am very strict with my protocol. I donate blood every 3-6 months to manage CBC levels

 

[drejb]

His estradiol is within range. They used pmol/l as opposed to pg/ml. His estradiol translates roughly to 40pg/ml.

Would I see any difference aesthetically if my E2 was lower? Closer to 30s?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Would I see any difference aesthetically if my E2 was lower? Closer to 30s?

I recall seeing studies that showed 22-30pg/ml being the ideal range for estradiol in men. So yes, lowering it just a tad bit would be better health-wise, although I’m not sure you’d notice much in terms of well-being and whatnot.

 

[Steeleydan]

I stay around the same levels as well and the only thing thats annoying is the RBC which sounds like you got under control

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Dumb question -

if you feel fine and like where you are numbers wise, why would you cut your dose?

Also - have you experiejced sides? I was given the green light a couple weeks ago to follow your same protocol (with no AI as its not needed yet)

Just curious how this has treated you

He pretty much already said that the reason for potentially cutting the dose would be for long-term health, which is a good idea in certain circumstances; although his current levels seem to be working fine.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Might up the dose to 1mg / week.

Noo need to if you feel fine and have no gyno issues. Estrogen is considered by many to be good for you unless ridiculously high

 

[RickyBlobby]

Just realized I forgot to address your biweekly dosing question. It's a newer protocol that is gaining a lot a traction right now, and I'd have to say I agree with the rationale behind it, and the results. Basically the pharmacokinetic data boils down to this. You take a shot and get a peak that falls rapidly in a day or two. Now if you take smaller doses more often, you will get a lot more of those peaks. Also injecting these tiny doses subq slows the disposition time from the fat so the drug releases into the circulation slower. It takes longer to reach steady state levels this way, but you can use about a 40% lower dose sometimes and achieve the same testosterone level. This allows people take twice weekly doses, 30-50mg every 3-5 days, and still maintain very high levels. Also, E2 seems to be lower with this method and less patients require ancillary anti-estrogen therapy. More and more docs are prescribing it from what i've seen.

Yeah a lot of guys are pinning 10-15mg ED with great results, low sides

 

[drejb]

Dumb question -

if you feel fine and like where you are numbers wise, why would you cut your dose?

Also - have you experiejced sides? I was given the green light a couple weeks ago to follow your same protocol (with no AI as its not needed yet)

Just curious how this has treated you

I feel great.

Have always struggled with High e2 which is why an AI is necessary for me (everyone’s different)

Here by Canadian medical standards my range is considered high. I have read having consistently high testosterone long term leads to consequences regarding health. Mainly cardiac issues and risk of chronic disease. But there are also studies that show the opposite. I’m mainly thinking about lowering the dose to stick to the “high normal” range within our standards. Which is essentially 25-28nmol