TRT/HRT

blasteryui

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I'm thinking in the future to stay on testosterone, if I was doing 100-150mg/week. Daily sub q shots, or 3 shots / week..

What Esters are the best for daily shots / 3 shots per week.. which shots are best for longer spreaded trt protocols, for people who shoot once-2x a week and so on?
 
bad rad

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My TRT is daily shots with Cyp or Enanthate.
 

sammpedd88

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I'm thinking in the future to stay on testosterone, if I was doing 100-150mg/week. Daily sub q shots, or 3 shots / week..

What Esters are the best for daily shots / 3 shots per week.. which shots are best for longer spreaded trt protocols, for people who shoot once-2x a week and so on?
How old are you?
 
Whisky

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My TRT is daily shots with Cyp or Enanthate.
that’s what I would do, probably cba with daily tbh but eod with cyp or something similar

I cruise with 2x week cyp sub q but I’m aware great frequency of lower volume injections is a better way to go
 
Mathb33

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For trt you simply don’t want to take fast acting esters even if you’re looking to pin daily and on first hand a fast acting ester would seem logical. E or c would be my bet. If pinning once or twice a week you could go for a longer ester too
 
Power-Lift

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I pin twice a week, sub-Q.
25 mg Test (enanthate), 25 mg Deca (50 mgs) two times a week for 100 mg total.
 

blasteryui

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that’s what I would do, probably cba with daily tbh but eod with cyp or something similar

I cruise with 2x week cyp sub q but I’m aware great frequency of lower volume injections is a better way to go
Sub q 2x a week? What's your dosage look like, and are you cycling or youre on TRT now?
 
Whisky

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Sub q 2x a week? What's your dosage look like, and are you cycling or youre on TRT now?
i ‘cruise’ on a high end trt dose of test cyp (160mg a week - it’s puts me just above range for my age). It’s 2x 0.4ml which I pin sub q using a 25g

when I blast/am on cycle (like right now) I’m using a lot more oil (1.5ml plus) a pin so I do that IM.

basically I don’t like putting anything over 0.5ml oil sub q (I also don’t like short esters sub q, seem to cause irritation when I did but no idea why the eater would make a difference, just something I personally noted)
 
Power-Lift

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Is this a mix you have, or two separate test.. if they are separate why do you take both?
I take both (separate) because I like the way Deca feels on my joints. I normally do 100 mg of test, but for now I'm trying 50 mg of each, and feeling better on that. I may stick with this if my bloods are good in June. (I want to run it for a while like this before getting bloods done)...
 

blasteryui

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i ‘cruise’ on a high end trt dose of test cyp (160mg a week - it’s puts me just above range for my age). It’s 2x 0.4ml which I pin sub q using a 25g

when I blast/am on cycle (like right now) I’m using a lot more oil (1.5ml plus) a pin so I do that IM.

basically I don’t like putting anything over 0.5ml oil sub q (I also don’t like short esters sub q, seem to cause irritation when I did but no idea why the eater would make a difference, just something I personally noted)
Any reason for 25g for sub q, instead of like 29, 30, etc less scar tissue.
 
Whisky

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Any reason for 25g for sub q, instead of like 29, 30, etc less scar tissue.
literally just because it’s easier to push the oil through without having to mess about warming it etc. I don’t get an issue with scar tissue sub q tbh.

IM with a 23g on blast I do but recently added the VG to my injection sites with delts and glutes to enable more rotation
 
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I just use a slin-pin since Im only pushing 20 units ('20' on a slin-pin) at a time. Painless, scarless.
 

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For trt you simply don’t want to take fast acting esters even if you’re looking to pin daily and on first hand a fast acting ester would seem logical. E or c would be my bet. If pinning once or twice a week you could go for a longer ester too
This right here. I would recommend cyp for trt and shorter esters for a blast. There's also no need to pin any more than once per week on cyp.

For some reason there's an almost cult like devotion to pinning as much as possible on a lot of trt forums that is probably scaring a lot of regular people/non bodybuilders away from getting on trt. I've not seen a single study showing any health benefits to the so called stable blood levels nor have I felt a bit of difference when I tried it myself.

Find a doc that will start you on 100mg/wk of cyp and go from there. Weekly shots suck, but after almost a year I would never go back.
 
Whisky

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This right here. I would recommend cyp for trt and shorter esters for a blast. There's also no need to pin any more than once per week on cyp.

For some reason there's an almost cult like devotion to pinning as much as possible on a lot of trt forums that is probably scaring a lot of regular people/non bodybuilders away from getting on trt. I've not seen a single study showing any health benefits to the so called stable blood levels nor have I felt a bit of difference when I tried it myself.

Find a doc that will start you on 100mg/wk of cyp and go from there. Weekly shots suck, but after almost a year I would never go back.
agreed the debate around the benefits to more stable blood levels can be argued (I pin cyp twice a week and feel great) but the best argument I have heard for daily sub q injections is the potential to reduce/remove ai use as studies do seem to show lower amoratisation.

I do recall, but can’t locate it, another member posting a study showing higher serum testosterone levels through smaller more frequent doses.

not disagreeing per se, just adding to the discussion as I get some of the logic as to why some trt clinics go that route (derek on MPMD also talks on this a lot)
 
Rocket3015

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I'm doing Sub-Q twice a week, seems to be working pretty good.
 

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agreed the debate around the benefits to more stable blood levels can be argued (I pin cyp twice a week and feel great) but the best argument I have heard for daily sub q injections is the potential to reduce/remove ai use as studies do seem to show lower amoratisation.

I do recall, but can’t locate it, another member posting a study showing higher serum testosterone levels through smaller more frequent doses.

not disagreeing per se, just adding to the discussion as I get some of the logic as to why some trt clinics go that route (derek on MPMD also talks on this a lot)
This is true. For people who are e sensitive, more frequent injects can help alleviate those side effects without an AI, which have a host of negative side effects as well. More frequent pinning also has its place for those blasting or cruising on a higher than normal dose (say, above 200mg/wk) to avoid wild swings in hormone levels and side effects.

If more frequent injects on trt doses works for you, great. I personally think it is more of a placebo effect than anything else, but there's benefits to being in a good head space as well. But for your normal dude that may not even workout and is googling for internet advice, being told that going on trt means stabbing yourself everyday as part of your morning routine for it to work the best is not helping them make good decisions.
 
bad rad

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The lower your SHBG the more often you need to inject. It's about the only way to control E2 since dosing AIs turns into a daily guessing game from my experience.
 
KvanH

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agreed the debate around the benefits to more stable blood levels can be argued (I pin cyp twice a week and feel great) but the best argument I have heard for daily sub q injections is the potential to reduce/remove ai use as studies do seem to show lower amoratisation.

I do recall, but can’t locate it, another member posting a study showing higher serum testosterone levels through smaller more frequent doses.

not disagreeing per se, just adding to the discussion as I get some of the logic as to why some trt clinics go that route (derek on MPMD also talks on this a lot)
Do you mean this?


Courtesy of @Rocket3015
 

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I find that 29g 1/2 inch goes IM into quads if relatively lean. Its a pain to draw 0.5ml with that pin though.

Any more than 2 x a week long term i can see becoming an issue. If you are also on hcg, or god forbid hgh, the amount of pins i am going through, full blown druggie mode. Who the hell would have the willpower to pin daily for years and years.

As far as ai issue, even a quarter of aromasin tab on say 200mg of test leads to joint pain for me and lethargy, while if i am off (relying on natty production) a little bit of aromasin gives no joint pain and makes me feel better and makes my libido high.





Exogenous and endogenous test behave very different in my opinion.
 
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Whisky

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Exogenous and endogenous test behave very different in my opinion.
not least because exogenous test will produce the same levels irrespective of other factors (endurance exercise, poor sleep, shite diet etc which can all reduce endogenous test levels)

it’s also not subject to a normal diurnal rhythm - it’s definitely different imo
 
KvanH

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I remember this one (wasn’t the one I was thinking off) but this one was specifically IM vs SQ. looking at it there doesn’t appear to be the data on injection frequency for either treatment strategy?
Lol, I got mixed up 😵 I had this study open on another tab on my phone and I think I also remember the one you are talking about on the injection frequence and somehow thought it was this one. I thought I had the study you are referring to open in some of my 37 currently open tabs.. 😄
 

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not least because exogenous test will produce the same levels irrespective of other factors (endurance exercise, poor sleep, shite diet etc which can all reduce endogenous test levels)

it’s also not subject to a normal diurnal rhythm - it’s definitely different imo
This is again going on a tangent, but you may be right, its the same substance, but behaves different as there is no diurnal rhytm. But there are still fluctuations though, just that they are on a larger time scale.


Exogenous test even "feels" different to me though.

Main difference boosting endogenous test and introducing/increasing exogenous test is...

that increasing endogenous one through aromasin mostly leads to big increases in libido, but very modest increases in aggression and confidence and little muscle hardness/fullness.

While the latter leads to significant increases in mood, energy and aggression, very noticeable muscle fullness and hardness (2 weeks on 200mg a week is very noticeable after being off for some time) and fat loss, but i lose libido. Like i will look at a woman as if she was a fine piece of art, but 0 urge. Would rather lift weights and admire the gains, or drive at 160 mph than fuk. Really, really interesting and this happens any time i am on gear.



And again, people who pin daily in the mornings are getting the opposite of natural rhytm if they are using E. Their levels peak in the evening or at night, they should be pinning in the evening to get natural rhytm.

But isnt gel more convenient at that point?
 
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blasteryui

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Wow these were all interesting responses and now I'm not sure what I'm suppose to even do if I do TRT loll.. some saying once a week, others 2x a week, others daily.. feel more conufsed lol.
 
Nac

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Wow these were all interesting responses and now I'm not sure what I'm suppose to even do if I do TRT loll.. some saying once a week, others 2x a week, others daily.. feel more conufsed lol.
Honestly, the less injections you can get away with the better. If guys who pinned daily could get the exact same response pinning once per week, well why would they bother with daily?

Unless you have good reason not to, start in the middle of the bell curve. Adjust from there, if needed.
 

CroLifter

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Question; Why do you guys who do pin daily?

Do you get e2 issues with twice a week schedule? I guess the biggest driver behind eod or ed pinning is to avoid an AI.
 
bad rad

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Question; Why do you guys who do pin daily?

Do you get e2 issues with twice a week schedule? I guess the biggest driver behind eod or ed pinning is to avoid an AI.
Keeps my free T higher and E2 lower for a given dosage. I don't like taking AIs due to the joint pain no matter how little I use. My SHBG tends to run lower too.
 
Rocket3015

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I started at once every two weeks, no problem !!
 

blasteryui

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Keeps my free T higher and E2 lower for a given dosage. I don't like taking AIs due to the joint pain no matter how little I use. My SHBG tends to run lower too.

If I say take Sub Q, 2x a week.. or even 1x a week.. do I HAVE to use an AI.. can you only avoid AI'S if you pin daily?
 
robthomas

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Honestly, the less injections you can get away with the better. If guys who pinned daily could get the exact same response pinning once per week, well why would they bother with daily?

Unless you have good reason not to, start in the middle of the bell curve. Adjust from there, if needed.
By pinning daily you have way less hormone spike which means control estrogen with no spikes . Picture a straight line is pinning daily and your approach going as long as possible for the ester to fade more imbalance like a huge spike which means large imbalance.
 
robthomas

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Question; Why do you guys who do pin daily?

Do you get e2 issues with twice a week schedule? I guess the biggest driver behind eod or ed pinning is to avoid an AI.
Daily is more natural to the bodies original state .
 
Rocket3015

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I have never used an AI, if you are on a TRT dose you should not need it.
 

blasteryui

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While I have the attention of you beautiful folk. If I go on trt, how does having children work.. do I have to get off trt and try to get my body back to normal to "possibly" have a chance at having children.. or can I take HCG while on trt in hopes of being able to have children.. or how does that all work?
 

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While I have the attention of you beautiful folk. If I go on trt, how does having children work.. do I have to get off trt and try to get my body back to normal to "possibly" have a chance at having children.. or can I take HCG while on trt in hopes of being able to have children.. or how does that all work?
Basically you need a clinic who will give you hcg. You don't need very much. Not unusual is 250iu, twice a week, so a 5000ui vial will last you 10 weeks. A little bit goes a long way. As far as fertility goes after that, it will vary depending on which professionals you're talking to.
 

blasteryui

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Basically you need a clinic who will give you hcg. You don't need very much. Not unusual is 250iu, twice a week, so a 5000ui vial will last you 10 weeks. A little bit goes a long way. As far as fertility goes after that, it will vary depending on which professionals you're talking to.
Do you take HCG leading up to when youre ready to have a child.. or do you need to take HCG 2x a week, for as long as you are on Testosterone? Or is it like this.. you take test for years and then you decide you want to have children.. so you start taking HCG to try and get the boys going while you continue to take TRT?
 

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Do you take HCG leading up to when youre ready to have a child.. or do you need to take HCG 2x a week, for as long as you are on Testosterone? Or is it like this.. you take test for years and then you decide you want to have children.. so you start taking HCG to try and get the boys going while you continue to take TRT?
I meant that you take it from the beginning of your TRT onward. It's more difficult to get your fertility back if you save HCG for some later time.
 
Nac

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By pinning daily you have way less hormone spike which means control estrogen with no spikes . Picture a straight line is pinning daily and your approach going as long as possible for the ester to fade more imbalance like a huge spike which means large imbalance.
I think you missed my point, but meh.
 
bad rad

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If I say take Sub Q, 2x a week.. or even 1x a week.. do I HAVE to use an AI.. can you only avoid AI'S if you pin daily?
Not necessarily needed for TRT. Everyone needs to tweak their protocol for them. My free T skyrockets on twice weekly injections and that leads to high E2. I hyper-excrete my testosterone between injections so levels drop quickly.
 
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KvanH

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While I have the attention of you beautiful folk. If I go on trt, how does having children work.. do I have to get off trt and try to get my body back to normal to "possibly" have a chance at having children.. or can I take HCG while on trt in hopes of being able to have children.. or how does that all work?
In some places the standard protocol is to ask the patient if he is looking to have children in the future and if so, store your sperm before starting the trt. It's not as fun as conceiving a child in the old fashion way, but works all the same. You could do that as a back up plan and still take the hcg if feel like it.
 

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