Tren E and Test E cycle (opinions)

dustter

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4th cycle- Reason: military reasons

Age 22
Weight: 190lbs
Cycle 4
11%-12% bf
Lifting experience: 8 years

Goals- Reduce fat percentage, cut weight as much as possible (understand will gain on cycle), cutting, increase/maintain cardiovascular endurance (will most likely drop bc of tren/cholesterol), increase overall muscular endurance.

Can post pics if needed

Ask for nay other details if you need them
Cycle:
Tren E- 400mg/wk
Test E- 250mg/wk
Arimidex- .5mg e3d (bumping as sides show)
GNC Preventive Nutrition Healthy Cholesterol

possibly? GW-501516 (Cardarine)

PCT:
OL Sup3r PCT
Clomid: (150mg day 1)
50/50/50/25
Nolvadex (maybe)
40/40/20/10

possibly? GW-501516 (Cardarine)
 
Dma378

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You have the doses listed that I would recommend. I like the addition of the GW for your goals and wanting to maintain cardio endurance.

Caber?
 
dustter

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You have the doses listed that I would recommend. I like the addition of the GW for your goals and wanting to maintain cardio endurance.

Caber?
I don't have a source for Caber.. yet. I am still looking.

P.s. this cycle is not for quite some time still. i am working on getting some other OTC supps and some exemstane for bacne (test side)
 
Nac

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Your clomid doses are unnecessarily high man. If you want the most out of clomid, it'd be better to extend rather than blast the sh1t out if it. 100mg is not going to outperform 50mg.

And obviously start clomid approx 2 weeks after your last tren pin.
 
Dma378

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Your clomid doses are unnecessarily high man. If you want the most out of clomid, it'd be better to extend rather than blast the sh1t out if it. 100mg is not going to outperform 50mg.

And obviously start clomid approx 2 weeks after your last tren pin.
Didn't catch the Clomid dose. Agree ^^^
 
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dustter

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Your clomid doses are unnecessarily high man. If you want the most out of clomid, it'd be better to extend rather than blast the sh1t out if it. 100mg is not going to outperform 50mg.

And obviously start clomid approx 2 weeks after your last tren pin.
i have had mixed opinions on how to blast clomid or just run reg dose.. just not 100% sure how the experts PCT after Tren. this is my first tren cycle
 
dustter

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Prior cycles
1: test e 500mg/wk 1-12
anavar 80mg/day 1-6
2: Test e 500mg/wk
3 Test e 500mg/wk
Mast p 400mg/wk 1-10
Tbol 70mg/day 1-5
 
Nac

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i have had mixed opinions on how to blast clomid or just run reg dose.. just not 100% sure how the experts PCT after Tren. this is my first tren cycle
Dosing clomid for longer (say, 6 weeks) will generally have the same if not better outcomes than blasting the fuk out of it for shorter. Plus less potential for sides. But even then, assuming you have a normally responsive HPTA, the trusty old 4-weeker will suffice (50-50-25-25).

I get that blasting clomid appeals to the intuition that dose-intensity will kickstart recovery better. But, it wont. All the studies Ive seen with clomid and enclomiphene show 25mg is equally as effective as 50mg...and in some respects moreso. I know, go figure. The lesson is that dose response is not linear.

If it were me, Id even dose 25mg straight for 6-8 weeks after tren, but I realise 50mg is burnt into our psyches as the magic number. However, 100mg is just ridiculous.
 
dustter

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Dosing clomid for longer (say, 6 weeks) will generally have the same if not better outcomes than blasting the fuk out of it for shorter. Plus less potential for sides. But even then, assuming you have a normally responsive HPTA, the trusty old 4-weeker will suffice (50-50-25-25).

I get that blasting clomid appeals to the intuition that dose-intensity will kickstart recovery better. But, it wont. All the studies Ive seen with clomid and enclomiphene show 25mg is equally as effective as 50mg...and in some respects moreso. I know, go figure. The lesson is that dose response is not linear.

If it were me, Id even dose 25mg straight for 6-8 weeks after tren, but I realise 50mg is burnt into our psyches as the magic number. However, 100mg is just ridiculous.
can you link any study for that 25mg vs. 50mg?
 
Nac

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can you link any study for that 25mg vs. 50mg?
Id actually suggest looking at the enclomiphene studies, they are far more clear cut:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=enclomiphene+citrate+hypogonadism&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=&oq=enclomiphene+citrate+hypogona

Theres a few reasons Id suggest looking at these. First, there are hundreds of clomid studies with doses ranging from 12.5mg per day right up to 200mg. There is no single knockdown study showing exactly what we want. Besides, I think we can extrapolate and come up with plenty good reasons to prefer moderate clomid dosing to any megadosing. Bear with me.

Whats the relevance of enclomiphene here? Clomid consists of two isomers, zuclomiphene (40%) and enclomiphene (60%). Enclomiphene, though, is what does all the good work of stimulating LH release and thus testosterone production. However, zuclomiphene is nasty sh1t. At best it is non-testosterogenic, at worse it is anti-testosterogenic. Last thing we want is large megadoses of this crap.

The enclomiphene studies show 25mg is plenty to get hypogonadal males mid-upper range. That would equate to a 37.5mg'sh dose of clomid. So thats right around our 25-50mg PCT bro dosing.

These numbers are also given further evidential strength if we look at general clomid hrt protocols for men. Typical dosing is 25-50mg, and very rarely exceeds that.

Lastly, I think the strongest reason for sticking with clinically proven moderate doses is this: if, once you finish your cycle, your HPTA is capable of recovery, using moderate doses is all that is required to facilitate this. Think about it. We take the clomid to most efficiently bring about recovery: quickly, and maximally. If our HPTA is receptive to SERM stimulation and recovery, megadoses are totally unnecessary. And could actually be detrimental. If 25-50mg doesnt recover you, 100mg certainly wont. Youre either going to be recepetive to treatment, or not.

Best to stick with moderate, clinically proven doses.
 
paul56778

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Prior cycles
1: test e 500mg/wk 1-12
anavar 80mg/day 1-6
2: Test e 500mg/wk
3 Test e 500mg/wk
Mast p 400mg/wk 1-10
Tbol 70mg/day 1-5
If this is your first time with Tren do not go with E, enanthate will have a longer half life and if you get sides you will have them for a few weeks opposed to a few days to 1 week if you were running Tren A, stick with Ace for a first run just in case Tren does not get on with you.
 
Dma378

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If this is your first time with Tren do not go with E, enanthate will have a longer half life and if you get sides you will have them for a few weeks opposed to a few days to 1 week if you were running Tren A, stick with Ace for a first run just in case Tren does not get on with you.
For what it's worth, my personal experience was that a moderate dose of Tren E had always been easier to tolerate than the same dose of Tren Ace. Sides were always more manageable and actually only lasted a week or two before I acclimated to it. Whereas with Ace the sides seemed to be all cycle long. And results from a lesser dose of E were better.

Again, just my experience. As the above post is logical on paper, but experiences can differ. I would always opt for E
 
dustter

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For what it's worth, my personal experience was that a moderate dose of Tren E had always been easier to tolerate than the same dose of Tren Ace. Sides were always more manageable and actually only lasted a week or two before I acclimated to it. Whereas with Ace the sides seemed to be all cycle long. And results from a lesser dose of E were better.

Again, just my experience. As the above post is logical on paper, but experiences can differ. I would always opt for E
Well the reason i am doing E is because i got one vial free and my buddy is giving me some extra vials that he had. But you are both correct from what i have seen in the logs and studies of Tren E vs. A... So that being said. I am doing Tren E and hopefully it will shed light on how it reacts to me. Maybe Tren A in a year or two if i can get another cycle in around then.

What were some sides you all had and how did you combat them? I get terrible bacne from test and nothing has worked for me yet, thats why i want isotretinin or maybe ill get doxycycline
 
Dma378

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Well the reason i am doing E is because i got one vial free and my buddy is giving me some extra vials that he had. But you are both correct from what i have seen in the logs and studies of Tren E vs. A... So that being said. I am doing Tren E and hopefully it will shed light on how it reacts to me. Maybe Tren A in a year or two if i can get another cycle in around then.

What were some sides you all had and how did you combat them? I get terrible bacne from test and nothing has worked for me yet, thats why i want isotretinin or maybe ill get doxycycline
The insomnia, acne, and feeling of imbalance were always worse with Ace. Always had proper supports and ancillaries, but never seemed to acclimate and for lesser results.

With E, the insomnia usually subsided after a week or two after its onset, and the results just came after that. And with less amount.

There are many many variables to consider here also. Different labs, different diet, different health at different times. Different other compounds I was running at the time, etc. Also I'm me and no one else is. There are the answers that can be given on paper from the logic of it all, and then the experience itself plays out completely different. I think you'll be fine with E. Start at 300/week for a few weeks.
 
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Dma378

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This is also why I laugh at people who judge effectiveness by the side effects. Not only the Tren E, but a couple oral ph cycles were the best in terms of gains/results with the least amount of sides. Compared to other runs with those same compounds where sides were more prevalent.
 
dustter

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should i start my AI on day 1 or since its tren higher than test, only use AI once sides show? i have always waited until about 3-4wks in to start an AI but since Tren is so strong just want some opinions
 
dustter

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Can't get Caber or Prami... What I do have is an entire extra bottle of SNS Inhibit-P which is 8 weeks worth. Anyone think that should be enough, reviews seem good.

Also, i took some pics prior to cycle.. i may do a log for this cycle.. whatcha guys think??
20170712_085752.jpg
Snapchat-891520647.jpg
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