Tren Cut - Calorie Deficit

copaaz

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I'm going to be starting an 8 week cycle soon to cut body fat as much as possible. This will be my 4th cycle but first for Tren. I'm planning to pin 60mg eod of tren and 300mg a week of test a. My question is, is there an issue with cutting the calories significantly? say by half? My maintenance is 3300 a day. Is there a problem cutting cals to say, 1500 a day. my bf is about 20%
 
Mathb33

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It’s inefficient and counter productive to cut calories that much that fast. Why would you do that anyways? What’s your room for adjustment if you go straight at 1500calories? If your maintenance is 3300 I’d start at something like 2700-2800 and I’d keep lowering it as the weeks go by, adjusting macros accordingly. 1700-1800 would be where I stop at the very end depending where you wanna end up but you can get very lean before even needing to go as low as that if you’re 20%.
 
Nac

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Agreed^, on an 8wk cut you will be leaving yourself no manouvering room dropping kcals by 50% straight away.
 

copaaz

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Can you explain what you mean by, "room for adjustment"? What adjustments would be made and why? If Tren does what my research shows, then it will prevent muscle lose. So why wouldn't I want to speed up the rate at which fat is shedded?
 
Renew1

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Can you explain what you mean by, "room for adjustment"? What adjustments would be made and why? If Tren does what my research shows, then it will prevent muscle lose. So why wouldn't I want to speed up the rate at which fat is shedded?
If Tren could prevent muscle loss no matter what, why not just go zero calorie?

They're giving you good advice man.
 

copaaz

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If Tren could prevent muscle loss no matter what, why not just go zero calorie?

They're giving you good advice man.
well for starters, your internal organs would shut down. 50% reduction does sound drastic but not extreme imo. anything more than that would be extreme.
 
Renew1

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well for starters, your internal organs would shut down. 50% reduction does sound drastic but not extreme imo. anything more than that would be extreme.
Well it is extreme. If you want a good result, go with the suggestion.
Some people can't get past their own preconceived opinions though. ... If that's you ... Run it! :)
 

copaaz

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Well it is extreme. If you want a good result, go with the suggestion.
Some people can't get past their own preconceived opinions though. ... If that's you ... Run it! :)
what negatives would there be going that extreme?
 

Resolve10

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what negatives would there be going that extreme?
Mathb already covered it. If you start that low there is nowhere to go when you stall.

Start more reasonable. If your maintenance is really 3300cals even if you wanted to go drastic you could start at 2300-2600 calories that would be a sizeable deficit (that is more than I would suggest unless you really don't want to listen to a reasonable approach). If you are up at 20% of bodyfat you'll see pretty significant change at that rate anyways.

As for what the negatives would be, you will tank workout performance, feel like crap, probably end up subconsciously compensate by decreasing NEAT (your non exercise activity like standing, fidgeting, moving, etc.) a ton and then end up losing even less than what you theoretically should. If you keep calories more reasonable that risk will be lessened and results will be better, especially in the long term.
 

copaaz

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Mathb already covered it. If you start that low there is nowhere to go when you stall.

Start more reasonable. If your maintenance is really 3300cals even if you wanted to go drastic you could start at 2300-2600 calories that would be a sizeable deficit (that is more than I would suggest unless you really don't want to listen to a reasonable approach). If you are up at 20% of bodyfat you'll see pretty significant change at that rate anyways.

As for what the negatives would be, you will tank workout performance, feel like crap, probably end up subconsciously compensate by decreasing NEAT (your non exercise activity like standing, fidgeting, moving, etc.) a ton and then end up losing even less than what you theoretically should. If you keep calories more reasonable that risk will be lessened and results will be better, especially in the long term.
that sounds reasonable. I just needed to have it spelled out.
 
Zvch

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I'm going to be starting an 8 week cycle soon to cut body fat as much as possible. This will be my 4th cycle but first for Tren. I'm planning to pin 60mg eod of tren and 300mg a week of test a. My question is, is there an issue with cutting the calories significantly? say by half? My maintenance is 3300 a day. Is there a problem cutting cals to say, 1500 a day. my bf is about 20%


If your goal with Tren is to cut, I'd highly recommend starting it at a higher dose especially if you're only running it 8 weeks. And definitely go with Tren Ace if you weren't already planning on it. Pinning every day would be better.

In my experience, 150-200mg/week of Tren is better for putting on size and once I go above that, I start to shred up more. Tren is so androgenic and puts such a high demand on the body for calories that the higher you go with it, the more fat you'll be inhibiting/burning. This is another reason why you should listen to the advice these other guys gave you. You simply don't need to cut calories that drastically from the start.

Not saying this is the best way for everybody, but I've had the best results cutting with Tren Ace at 40-50mg every day and Test between 200-250. If this were my cycle, I would pin 40mg/day for the first 4 weeks and 50mg/day for the next 4 weeks. I would also add a light DHT compound or something that acts like one to help accelerate fat loss that much more/inhibit prolactin and estrogen. I've had good cuts stacking Tren with Ostarine 30mg, Epiandro 900mg or Proviron 75-100mg. Anavar would be a good choice too.

I'd keep Test 250 or less the whole cycle, Tren 280mg + one of those orals for 4 weeks, then up the Tren to 350mg and switch the oral or up the dose of the oral the next 4 weeks. I wouldn't add in an additional oral because the overall amount of androgens alongside Tren seems to be what causes a lot of the side effects associated with the drug, especially the sleeplessness. With a cycle structured like that, I'd hold no water, have no significant side effects, no estrogen or prolactin issues, and be able to cut 15 pounds or so while putting on muscle with some extra cardio and no drastic reduction in calories. That's been my experience.
 

copaaz

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If your goal with Tren is to cut, I'd highly recommend starting it at a higher dose especially if you're only running it 8 weeks. And definitely go with Tren Ace if you weren't already planning on it. Pinning every day would be better.

In my experience, 150-200mg/week of Tren is better for putting on size and once I go above that, I start to shred up more. Tren is so androgenic and puts such a high demand on the body for calories that the higher you go with it, the more fat you'll be inhibiting/burning. This is another reason why you should listen to the advice these other guys gave you. You simply don't need to cut calories that drastically from the start.

Not saying this is the best way for everybody, but I've had the best results cutting with Tren Ace at 40-50mg every day and Test between 200-250. If this were my cycle, I would pin 40mg/day for the first 4 weeks and 50mg/day for the next 4 weeks. I would also add a light DHT compound or something that acts like one to help accelerate fat loss that much more/inhibit prolactin and estrogen. I've had good cuts stacking Tren with Ostarine 30mg, Epiandro 900mg or Proviron 75-100mg. Anavar would be a good choice too.

I'd keep Test 250 or less the whole cycle, Tren 280mg + one of those orals for 4 weeks, then up the Tren to 350mg and switch the oral or up the dose of the oral the next 4 weeks. I wouldn't add in an additional oral because the overall amount of androgens alongside Tren seems to be what causes a lot of the side effects associated with the drug, especially the sleeplessness. With a cycle structured like that, I'd hold no water, have no significant side effects, no estrogen or prolactin issues, and be able to cut 15 pounds or so while putting on muscle with some extra cardio and no drastic reduction in calories. That's been my experience.
I was following you through paragraph 3. 40mg tren ed for 1st 4 weeks then 50 next 4 weeks. would be more better advised to go longer, say, 12 weeks?
 
Zvch

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I was following you through paragraph 3. 40mg tren ed for 1st 4 weeks then 50 next 4 weeks. would be more better advised to go longer, say, 12 weeks?

I think with Tren it's more a matter of how long you can tolerate it at a high dose. You kind of get to a point where you just don't feel great mentally or physically. It's relatively harsh on the body - kidneys, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc (another reason I recommend doing a lot of cardio or interval training while on Tren). 8 weeks seems to be more typical but I for sure wouldn't recommend going over 12 weeks with Tren.

I've never gone over 350mg with Tren or ran it over 8 weeks, but a lot of guys do. Not for any health related reasons, but after running Tren a couple times I can see how a higher dose or running it too long could make somebody unstable and change their personality overall. I would say just base it off of how you feel.

Having an AI, Caber or Prami and Nolvadex just in case would probably be a good idea as well. Although I've never had any physical signs of prolactin issues, I think a lot of the mood issues/"rage" with Tren can probably be attributed to an elevation in prolactin. I use 0.5mg-1mg Prami twice a week regardless and that seems to help with my mood.
 

Glockguy706

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This is my opinion and not medical advice. i would cut calories by 500 a day . And you can lose a pound a week with no gear. After a week or two you can drop another 300 to 500 after a month of dieting hard start tren. I would run a min of 200 mg a week and max of 500. I would add masteron at 200 to 400 a week and cut test to 100 mg a week . Then stay around 2000 to 2300 calories a day . I would not go below 2000 a day . And eat 6 protein meals a day . Diet is key you have to eat to lose weight . I don't count every macro but eat low calorie dense foods like spinach salads ext. Eating a pound of salad will keep you from being hungry and is like 100 calories. As far as orals I might add a dry oral like anavar or msten for 4 weeks but tren is going to out shine everything else . If using enth I would pin every 5 days if ace daily or min eod. But a lot of good advice has been given so take it for what you will.
 

Glockguy706

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I also double my fish oil and add GW while on tren . Maybe t3 as well . Tren can lower t3 as well.
 
Mathb33

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True! GW is great for lipids it’s part of my stack too anytime I run something that’s nasty on lipids
 

copaaz

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so if I run a 700 calorie deficit for 12 weeks and I do no cardio, logic would suggest that I would loose about .20 lb's of fat per day and roughly 17 lbs over 12 weeks. Can it be expected that I'll loose even more being on Tren? If so is there a ballpark on the quantity? I mean can I expect 2-3 more lb's or more like 20 more?
 

Glockguy706

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Tren makes you hold onto what you eat . You would lose less weight on tren but recomp you might lose 5 pounds and turn 12 pounds of fat to muscle. If you add t3 with tren then you would lose more. I don't think you would see a difference on the scale but in the mirror. Tren changes the way you use what you eat and increasing nitrogen retention and protein synthesis. It also decreases t3 levels . Looks at what it does to cows they gain a ton of muscle on the same diet.
 
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copaaz

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Yes I understand that stepping on a scale I won't be able to see a huge difference in lb's gained/loss. I can do a Dexa scan and get my exact breakdown of muscle mass and body fat mass. My question is ballpark what can be expected in total lbs of body fat loss. Not net body weight.
 

Glockguy706

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Its hard to say most people do not count calories right and do not know what their real metabolic rate is . On top of that drugs effect everyone differently so while what you said could be about right as far as 17 pounds or so there are too many variables . The work you put in at the gym will matter as well. I wouldn't waste money on a dexa scan they are really easily manipulated.
 

Jstrong20

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well for starters, your internal organs would shut down. 50% reduction does sound drastic but not extreme imo. anything more than that would be extreme.
That’s not true. Plenty of people fast over a month. I’ve done five days. All you need to survive is water and electrolytes.
 

Jstrong20

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As for cutting on gear I’ve never seen the point unless you compete. Cutting is easy and anything lost will come back extremlly quick on steroids so I personally would save the tren for when you want to add muscle. As I said this doesn’t apply to competitors or guys that never come off though.
 

jrock645

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That’s not true. Plenty of people fast over a month. I’ve done five days. All you need to survive is water and electrolytes.
If i wanted to get really aggressive on a cut with tren id probably do psmf. Then again, no need to do that unless youre competing.

And for me, i dont really lose on the scale on gear but even at a deficit with a lot of cardio i just recomp beautifully. Var and epistane at 1800cals per day and the scale didnt budge in 4 weeks but 2” came off my waist.
 
Smont

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Can you explain what you mean by, "room for adjustment"? What adjustments would be made and why? If Tren does what my research shows, then it will prevent muscle lose. So why wouldn't I want to speed up the rate at which fat is shedded?
You can just eat a set amount of calories and expect to endlessly loose weight, you drop calories little by little and or increase cardio little by little to keep the process moving. Usually when someone is going to a extreme, using drugs to maintain muscle on a starvation diet there probably not in a good position to be cycling in the first place. And if maintenance is 3300 then 1700 is definitely a starvation diet
 

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