Unanswered TREN and SLEEP

[Matthersby]

Maybe on big gym days I’ll throw down some DMAA and oral Trest. Sounds fun

 

[Zvch]

Trest + DHT smokes Tren. Bigger and just as lean with next to no sides and better labs

That's the thing about Tren is you feel great until you don't anymore. 6 weeks in or so I just start to feel extremely unhealthy. I never felt that way on Trest health wise, just estrogen and bloat so I could imagine running it a lot longer. I would definitely run it with something that has a decent drying effect like Winny or Var. Have you ever run it with Epiandro? That's about the closest it gets to DHT yeah?

 

[CroLifter]

Trest + DHT smokes Tren. Bigger and just as lean with next to no sides and better labs

There must be a reason why trest is not the goto drug for many.
Perhaps it is the shutdown?

i find it hard to believe it causes less sides than tren.

 

[Zvch]

There must be a reason why trest is not the goto drug for many.
Perhaps it is the shutdown?

i find it hard to believe it causes less sides than tren.

I mean, for the people on here that run injectable cycles, the majority have been on testosterone for years and don't come off. Shutdown isn't really a factor.

Trestolone is also famous for its libido and mood boosting effects. If there's more shutdown with it than with Tren, which there probably is based on the fact that it was developed originally as a male contraceptive, you probably wouldn't notice anyway. Due to Trestolone's mechanisms of action, it can actually be used for hormone replacement in place of testosterone. Tren can't.

The two biggest factors I would say are estrogen and lack of knowledge and anecdotal experience/research on Trestolone. As far as health related side-effects, there don't seem to be many. It seems to be a pretty mild compound, especially when you take into account how powerful it is. You can't really run it high enough to see health related side-effects before you hit bad estrogen conversion. You can keep the doses very low and still see good results. There are a handful of guys on here that get regular labs done and run Trest very often/micro dose it year round in addition to their TRT.

 

[Matthersby]

There must be a reason why trest is not the goto drug for many.
Perhaps it is the shutdown?

i find it hard to believe it causes less sides than tren.

Well ya. It takes a damn year to figure out how to control the estro sides. I didn’t have some sweetheart laying it all out like I did so you don’t grow boobs.
Then there’s the whole - you shouldn’t even touch it unless on TRT or if you plan to get someone pregnant in the next 18 months - part of it.
Guys just buy it and run it at some Godawful dose like 350, and their face almost pops like a cherry tomato and they need to get their wedding ring cut off, and should have started at 150.
There’s a lot of reasons. It’s been available since maybe 2013, which makes it scary when we have 40-50 years of info on Deca and decades on Tren. But it is superior to both no matter how you look at it.

 

[jackedviking]

Well ya. It takes a damn year to figure out how to control the estro sides. I didn’t have some sweetheart laying it all out like I did so you don’t grow boobs.
Then there’s the whole - you shouldn’t even touch it unless on TRT or if you plan to get someone pregnant in the next 18 months - part of it.
Guys just buy it and run it at some Godawful dose like 350, and their face almost pops like a cherry tomato and they need to get their wedding ring cut off, and should have started at 150.
There’s a lot of reasons. It’s been available since maybe 2013, which makes it scary when we have 40-50 years of info on Deca and decades on Tren. But it is superior to both no matter how you look at it.

Seems like everybody is sold out of Tren Ace! Mind PMing me a source?

 

[Matthersby]

Seems like everybody is sold out of Tren Ace! Mind PMing me a source?

It’s 99% black market now. Pm in a few sir

 

[Jinsun]

What? 400mg I’ll be wayyyy over 2100 lol. Most people will be between 1600-2100 on 250-275mg

Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. Idk about ng/dl, my lab has different units, but it places me 3x above range at 250mg's... That's 125mg 2x a week, tested 36h after pin. Also, I don't need an Ai at 250mg's. If your TRT places you at the upper range, let's say 900 - 1000, and TRT is for most what? 125 - 150? Then 250 should put most at cca 1800? That's 250mg's a week mind you. And I'm not thinking about the last hour before next pin blood test. I'm thinking around a day or two after pin. But mind you, for most that pin e or c 2x a week, the peak's and valleys shouldn't be That far apart.

Anyway, this is the impression I got from labs posted on line. I usually think about it like this: 100mg approximates 1000 ng/dl. So 500mg's is 5ish upper range, etc.

 

[Mathb33]

Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. Idk about ng/dl, my lab has different units, but it places me 3x above range at 250mg's... That's 125mg 2x a week, tested 36h after pin. Also, I don't need an Ai at 250mg's. If your TRT places you at the upper range, let's say 900 - 1000, and TRT is for most what? 125 - 150? Then 250 should put most at cca 1800? That's 250mg's a week mind you. And I'm not thinking about the last hour before next pin blood test. I'm thinking around a day or two after pin. But mind you, for most that pin e or c 2x a week, the peak's and valleys shouldn't be That far apart.

Anyway, this is the impression I got from labs posted on line. I usually think about it like this: 100mg approximates 1000 ng/dl. So 500mg's is 5ish upper range, etc.

Exactly. What he says is completly absurd but he posted a "study" on 50 people so he’s probably right. 600mg will generally put people on 2100 TT 24-36hours after injection. LMFAOOOO what a joke

 

[CroLifter]

Exactly. What he says is completly absurd but he posted a "study" on 50 people so he’s probably right. 600mg will generally put people on 2100 TT 24-36hours after injection. LMFAOOOO what a joke

man it was nadir level did you read?
Injected once a week. Nadir means lowest point, presumably right before next injection.

 

[Mathb33]

man it was nadir level did you read?
Injected once a week. Nadir means lowest point, presumably right before next injection.

Well the hell did you throw that **** at my comment then if I was obviously talking about peaks?

 

[ItalOne]

Seems like everybody is sold out of Tren Ace! Mind PMing me a source?

Oh no, the 2019 Tren drought!

 

[Matthersby]

Oh no, the 2019 Tren drought!

Hey it was a clever way to ask for a source though.

I’m not seeing Tren ever going away.

 

[ItalOne]

Hey it was a clever way to ask for a source though.

I’m not seeing Tren ever going away.

No it’s not going anywhere!
Do you really give out your sources?

 

[Matthersby]

No it’s not going anywhere!
Do you really give out your sources?

I refer to online vendors that I know are solid. My personal one, not really.

 

[jackedviking]

I should clarify my previous post was meant to solicit a source for “Trest Ace,” not “Tren Ace.” Apologies for the confusion!

 

[ItalOne]

I refer to online vendors that I know are solid. My personal one, not really.

No wonder your so popular! JK

 

[CroLifter]

Well the hell did you throw that **** at my comment then if I was obviously talking about peaks?

Didnt realize ypu were talking about peaks.

Usually we use troughs for reference.

 

[Mathb33]

Didnt realize ypu were talking about peaks.

Usually we use troughs for reference.

Sorry that was uncalled for.

 

[Outofbody]

Just curious, how long do most people in here run tren ace for?

I usually go 8-12 weeks, I think most people run it for less due to sides.

 

[Zvch]

Just curious, how long do most people in here run tren ace for?

I usually go 8-12 weeks, I think most people run it for less due to sides.

Until I start to feel like crap physically. 6-8 weeks depending on what I’m running with it.

I know a strongman competitor that’s been on Tren E 250mg/week for a year and a half straight, on top of EQ. Apparently he feels fine lol.

 

[Mathb33]

Until I start to feel like crap physically. 6-8 weeks depending on what I’m running with it.

I know a strongman competitor that’s been on Tren E 250mg/week for a year and a half straight, on top of EQ. Apparently he feels fine lol.

Jesus.

 

[Outofbody]

Until I start to feel like crap physically. 6-8 weeks depending on what I’m running with it.

I know a strongman competitor that’s been on Tren E 250mg/week for a year and a half straight, on top of EQ. Apparently he feels fine lol.

Lol anxiety tho.... EQ and tren? Haha..
Since he’s a strongman, he must not be worried too much about cardio!!

 

[Zvch]

Lol anxiety tho.... EQ and tren? Haha..
Since he’s a strongman, he must not be worried too much about cardio!!

Anadrol off and on year round too. I’d probably stay on if I set a log press world record too. It definitely works.

Nah he definitely doesn’t do much cardio but he does take a ton of Cardarine. He seems relatively healthy for now and he’s a really happy and calm dude.

 

[Nac]

I usually only run tren ace 4-6wks, 350mg per wk. But to be honest I feel better running sdrol for the same amount of time, and I find I get pretty much the same benefits but much less of the sh1tty sides. Or trest ace and adrol. But thats an obviously much more expensive blast.

 

[Matthersby]

My Tren cycles average about 8 days or so. Only drug I just can’t tolerate.
Dien + Mast does damn near the same so I’ll live.

 

[chem.jr.]

I find enanthate is less on sides than ace for me. Low dose 1x a week and still get recomp effects (112mg/.5cc).
Also, phenibut?
But yeah, if youre gonna play wth fire then expect to get burned. And i know quite a few guys that do like the dienolone over tren as well as trest bc they can get similar results with slight modifications and not deal w all the shittiness. Tren is garbage imo. One of the few inj that does such damage.

 

[chem.jr.]

I am hypersensitive. Sometimes just a 250mg shot of test E would make me twitch in the middle of the night and wake up.
masteron? Panic attacks.

probably because i injected in the morning and then levels rose during the night.

Next cycle i will try injecting in the evening.

I know guys time their tren ace shots because it hits so hard.

Inj in the am is best to mimic natural cycle. You think if you pin before bed thats gonna be better?
And for sien reason I sleep a little better with npp in the mix. But thats me. Im a frikin whakadoo!

 

[chem.jr.]

This is so understated! The way different people absorb drugs, can be night and day. 250mg's of test gets me 3x above labs range, for a lot of people it can be 1.5x. So this means 250 test for me, is like 400/500 for somebody else. It's the same with other compounds! Not to mention that we all metabolise drugs differently, making half life's only an approximation. Then when you account all other pharmacokinetics variables and since we are not using pharma grade gear, it's really really hard to tell of the bat to somebody how much and how to take something Exactly. We can ballpark it, but beyond that, it's personal trial and error.

Fyi, all androgens f*ck up my sleep. 250 test is max that I can handle, if I want to sleep relatively ok. But I am a very bad sleeper as is, without drugs. Need to try LGD to see how it affects my sleep.

Interesting feedback from everyone. I already knew all this but this is the same in all forums, there is NO RIGHT answer. We are all wired different. @cro is a perfect example. I don’t use an AI until I’m above 300mg of test and I feel awesome!!

We all experience different sides from different drugs at different dosages. I can run a gram of Mast and EQ together with NO issues. But test above 500mg makes me aggressive and short of breath, it also jacks up my blood pressure. Same with all methyls and anything highly adrogenic. No f@wking way prolactin effects my rage because just a 150mg a week of tren ace makes want to run over a little old lady trying to cross the street.

The rage for me is real! I’ve come close to getting myself arrested!! That small amount of tren will also limit my sleep to 3 - 4 hours a night. I mean I have only been getting 5-6 hrs of sleep anyway for the last 10 years, but that’s because I work two jobs at crazy hours.

I think it’s funny we all share our experiences yet they are all different. Not sure how helpful that is?

Between these two all of it has been said.

 

[chem.jr.]

My Tren cycles average about 8 days or so. Only drug I just can’t tolerate.
Dien + Mast does damn near the same so I’ll live.

I would argue dien+mast = better results as I can think better and be more disciplined with my regimen so results are better. But thats me. Tren is tossed in when i need to kick major ass for a week or something. Usually due to work etc. Usually Not bc of training, as weird and stupud as that is. Had same vial for over a year lol.

 

[Matthersby]

I would argue dien+mast = better results as I can think better and be more disciplined with my regimen so results are better. But thats me. Tren is tossed in when i need to kick major ass for a week or something. Usually due to work etc. Usually Not bc of training, as weird and stupud as that is. Had same vial for over a year lol.

Ya I just tell myself that so I don’t feel like I’m missing out. Since I aim to compete in March, and much sacrifice is going into this, I would give up my sanity and sleep for 6 weeks if my trainer insisted on Tren.
However, I’ve got dien enanthate, and ALOT of it, and he’s psyched about this. He was trying to find out where I got it, said it’s his favorite drug.

 

[Outofbody]

Anadrol off and on year round too. I’d probably stay on if I set a log press world record too. It definitely works.

Nah he definitely doesn’t do much cardio but he does take a ton of Cardarine. He seems relatively healthy for now and he’s a really happy and calm dude.

Ahhh yeah carderine would be great to offset the cardio hit.

EQ anxiety sneaks up on me. I’ve used it for 8 months at a time in the past (around 500mg/week) and it took several months before I noticed I couldn’t sit comfortably still in the evenings.

 

[Outofbody]

I usually only run tren ace 4-6wks, 350mg per wk. But to be honest I feel better running sdrol for the same amount of time, and I find I get pretty much the same benefits but much less of the sh1tty sides. Or trest ace and adrol. But thats an obviously much more expensive blast.

Oh man I can’t tolerate sdrol anymore or any orals for that matter, due to the hit to my appetite, and extreme nausea.

 

[Outofbody]

My Tren cycles average about 8 days or so. Only drug I just can’t tolerate.
Dien + Mast does damn near the same so I’ll live.

I love dien ace. So much that I ran it for 16 weeks on my last run of it up to 700mg/week by the end and was still gaining but was fairly manic at that dose. Got myself banned here back then when running it that high.

 

[Nac]

Oh man I can’t tolerate sdrol anymore or any orals for that matter, due to the hit to my appetite, and extreme nausea.

Man that sux. And NPP is no good for you either, is it? Id hate that.

 

[Outofbody]

Man that sux. And NPP is no good for you either, is it? Id hate that.

NPP is no good for me but my body loves tren. I don’t really get any bad sides on it. Sleep is fine, mind is fine. I get really horny and driven on it, which I’m fine with. Tren is much better than NPP

 

[Mathb33]

NPP is no good for me but my body loves tren. I don’t really get any bad sides on it. Sleep is fine, mind is fine. I get really horny and driven on it, which I’m fine with. Tren is much better than NPP

What’s up with NPP? How come you can’t tolerate it?

 

[Outofbody]

What’s up with NPP? How come you can’t tolerate it?

Ridiculous insomnia, nothing works. I've tried stacking phenibut, weed, anti-histamines, melatonin, DSIP, GHRP's... to no avail. Only difference is that when I run NPP, I run test prop with it. When I run tren, I only run a TRT dose of test, and have no issues. Test prop alone doesn't cause me any insomnia though.

 

[Matthersby]

Ridiculous insomnia, nothing works. I've tried stacking phenibut, weed, anti-histamines, melatonin, DSIP, GHRP's... to no avail. Only difference is that when I run NPP, I run test prop with it. When I run tren, I only run a TRT dose of test, and have no issues. Test prop alone doesn't cause me any insomnia though.

So weird how everyone is different. I’ve been slowing pushing npp dosage every time I run it and the insomnia sides while unpleasant are minimized with just 25mg trazadone. Going to 600 this time. Orals give me way worse insomnia.

 

[Outofbody]

So weird how everyone is different. I’ve been slowing pushing npp dosage every time I run it and the insomnia sides while unpleasant are minimized with just 25mg trazadone. Going to 600 this time. Orals give me way worse insomnia.

Are you running test with your NPP? I think I was running about 500mg/week NPP, and 3-400mg/week of test prop on both of my runs with it. Never again though.

 

[Matthersby]

Are you running test with your NPP? I think I was running about 500mg/week NPP, and 3-400mg/week of test prop on both of my runs with it. Never again though.

I think the problem I always come back to is somewhat of a debatable one. I’ve tried every way but I tend to see that when my test dosage is too high, it almost always exacerbates both injectable dht’s but especially 19-nors. After years of keeping the better drug too low to avoid sides, early last year I started running a high TRT dose of test and nothing more. I’ve been able to increase almost every other injectable with even LESS sides than I would usually have. Trest will ruin me at 275/week if I were running 400 test. But at 200, no problem(I mean I still need to guzzle raloxifene but any other sides are manageable)
NPP is no different. 450-550-maybe even650, if my test isn’t cracking 300.
I dunno, worth a shot? Old schoolers will be yelling “always run high test with Tren and Nandrolones or you’ll die and your dick won’t work” but a lot of us have found 200 test works just fine for maintaining function.

 

[Matthersby]

Are you running test with your NPP? I think I was running about 500mg/week NPP, and 3-400mg/week of test prop on both of my runs with it. Never again though.

And I haven’t been off test in years. It’s just a matter of how much. But last 2.5 years, only twice have I gone over 250 and the second time is at my trainer’s request, otherwise I wouldn’t.

 

[Glockguy706]

My first trest cycle i ran it with test tren and msten no real sides. Surprising knowing what i know now. I ran way too much dermatrest and oral trest with high dose test msten and low dose tren.40mg ed is low dose.

 

[Outofbody]

And I haven’t been off test in years. It’s just a matter of how much. But last 2.5 years, only twice have I gone over 250 and the second time is at my trainer’s request, otherwise I wouldn’t.

Man I remember when I used to run about a gram of test in my cycles for a couple years. Felt awesome, but now I just run about 300mg of tren with low test dose and feel just as great without the sides. Lately I tried running high test again with high NPP, and nope, never again.

 

[Mathb33]

Man I remember when I used to run about a gram of test in my cycles for a couple years. Felt awesome, but now I just run about 300mg of tren with low test dose and feel just as great without the sides. Lately I tried running high test again with high NPP, and nope, never again.

Pussy

 

[Outofbody]

Pussy

LOL I may not be taking a gram of test anymore but I'm stacking trest/npp/superdrol instead

 

[Matthersby]

LOL I may not be taking a gram of test anymore but I'm stacking trest/npp/superdrol instead

You two. ️
I’m the pussy round here. Can’t even make it through first week of Anavar.
@Mrkleen took some time out of his day to go over all the variables with me(that’s just what the sweetheart old schoolers do around here) and helped me figure out it’s a bile duct issue, not liver enzymes, or anything else. So Tudca and nighttime dosing may be the way to go for me. This is solid info for you guys when you get all old and decrepit like me, you’ll know a way to take orals since I refuse to give them up. I’m on day 3 winstrol 25mg/bedtime and feel awesome, so next week I will bump to 50 and see how it goes.
FML who can’t make it through the first week of 60mg Var?

 

[Outofbody]

I’ll keep that in mind since I have plenty of superdrol in my stash.. next time I should probably preload the TUDCA and dose on the higher end. I didn’t use any on the last run. I just used Mary Jane to increase my appetite and deal with nausea instead lolol

 

[Matthersby]

I’ll keep that in mind since I have plenty of superdrol in my stash.. next time I should probably preload the TUDCA and dose on the higher end. I didn’t use any on the last run. I just used Mary Jane to increase my appetite and deal with nausea instead lolol

I haven’t ran any kind of cycle support in 6 years.
I know how the liver works and I know it’ll be fine in 3 weeks after stopping the oral.
I’m starting to see the value in Tudca now.

 

[CroLifter]

7Alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone maintains sexual behavior and mood in hypogonadal men - PubMed

The synthetic steroid 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) is a potent androgen that is resistant to 5alpha-reductase. It thus has decreased activity at the prostate and may have advantages over testosterone-based regimens in long term treatment or as part of a male contraceptive...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Didnt know that trestolone is not bound by shbg. That is really interesting.

@Matthersby how would you rate effect of trest on hematocrit compared to test?

edit: nevermind, seems to increase it too, just like test, maybe even more so.

You say the lipids look good. How is the blood pressure?