Unanswered TREN and SLEEP

[Glockguy706]

What's the best way if any to get good or decent sleep on tren?
LOW Dose daily ACE. DSIP? Sleeping pills? melatonin? Anyone have this figured out .. last time I did not have much trouble sleeping just crazy dreams . This time I want a game plan just incase .

 

[Matthersby]

Tren is to sleep as cheesecake is to abs.

With drugs that make it hard to sleep, I like strong antihistamines or even better, trazadone in large doses. Plus the old school anti depressant properties can help with all the hatred and irritability a smidge.

 

[bradleyt1]

Tren is to sleep as cheesecake is to abs.

With drugs that make it hard to sleep, I like strong antihistamines or even better, trazadone in large doses. Plus the old school anti depressant properties can help with all the hatred and irritability a smidge.

I’m sorry but why would anyone want to take a compound that only leads you to utilize other drugs?? And we’re not taking otc sleep aids but prescription ****.. I would never want to do that abuse to my body. People would be surprised if they just used low test and had patience and diligence with their diet you can look damn good. It will just take a lot longer. But I see things differently now then when I first joined this forum back like 2011 when I wouldn’t think twice about what prohormones did this and what would do that etc..

 

[Mathb33]

Nvm

 

[Mathb33]

Nvm.

 

[Matthersby]

I’m sorry but why would anyone want to take a compound that only leads you to utilize other drugs?? And we’re not taking otc sleep aids but prescription ****.. I would never want to do that abuse to my body. People would be surprised if they just used low test and had patience and diligence with their diet you can look damn good. It will just take a lot longer. But I see things differently now then when I first joined this forum back like 2011 when I wouldn’t think twice about what prohormones did this and what would do that etc..

At no point did I catch what you are getting at here.
Maybe you were talking to OP but quoting me.
I don’t use Tren. Pretty much all steroids make it a little harder to sleep, some more than others, and some time periods more than others. Trazadone is probably the safest sleep aid on earth however antihistamines(and even though it’s not advertised antihistamines are what they put in otc sleep aids-Advil PM, etc) have been linked to early onset alzheimers. So I’ll take the script for some mild insomnia.
But I do agree with you, There are several steroids I won’t use because the sides require more medication or are too unpleasant-or the risk:reward is not worth it.

 

[bradleyt1]

At no point did I catch what you are getting at here.
Maybe you were talking to OP but quoting me.
I don’t use Tren. Pretty much all steroids make it a little harder to sleep, some more than others, and some time periods more than others. Trazadone is probably the safest sleep aid on earth however antihistamines(and even though it’s not advertised antihistamines are what they put in otc sleep aids-Advil PM, etc) have been linked to early onset alzheimers. So I’ll take the script for some mild insomnia.
But I do agree with you, There are several steroids I won’t use because the sides require more medication or are too unpleasant-or the risk:reward is not worth it.

How do you feel on testosterone and sleep? Like what’s the highest dose you recommend without affecting sleep really?

 

[Matthersby]

How do you feel on testosterone and sleep? Like what’s the highest dose you recommend without affecting sleep really?

I don’t think Test messes with mine too much. There’s no doubt I’m zippier and able to be /more aggressive/more anxious/more energetic/more wired at night needing more help to get to sleep at a decent hour.
I refuse to run gear where I’m going to sleep less than 5 hours a night. I slept 8 hours the last 2 nights and it’s freaking glorious. I’m certain there’s drugs that will help most not competing at a high level achieve their goals without sacrificing sleep. Dienolone is a great alternative to Tren IMO.
But what I’ve noticed is all 19nors make it a little harder to sleep , just a bit more than test, Trest included, than DHTs are amongst the worst, orals being even worse than injectables. Than Tren and a few others.
But everyone is so different some have full on panic disorder on test, but can run dht’s with no problem. Just generally speaking. But usually the higher the dose the more the insomnia. 750+ for test and over 500+ for npp or 250 for trest.
I don’t see much reason for 90% of us to run those numbers anyhow. But ya that’s my take on it.
I don’t do well without sleep so I take action. Sometimes just some kava tea, sometimes phenibut and CBD, and then sometimes a little trazadone. I’m already someone with mild anxiety and insomnia too so it may be a little worse for me than some.

 

[CroLifter]

I don’t think Test messes with mine too much. There’s no doubt I’m zippier and able to be /more aggressive/more anxious/more energetic/more wired at night needing more help to get to sleep at a decent hour.
I refuse to run gear where I’m going to sleep less than 5 hours a night. I slept 8 hours the last 2 nights and it’s freaking glorious. I’m certain there’s drugs that will help most not competing at a high level achieve their goals without sacrificing sleep. Dienolone is a great alternative to Tren IMO.
But what I’ve noticed is all 19nors make it a little harder to sleep , just a bit more than test, Trest included, than DHTs are amongst the worst, orals being even worse than injectables. Than Tren and a few others.
But everyone is so different some have full on panic disorder on test, but can run dht’s with no problem. Just generally speaking. But usually the higher the dose the more the insomnia. 750+ for test and over 500+ for npp or 250 for trest.
I don’t see much reason for 90% of us to run those numbers anyhow. But ya that’s my take on it.
I don’t do well without sleep so I take action. Sometimes just some kava tea, sometimes phenibut and CBD, and then sometimes a little trazadone. I’m already someone with mild anxiety and insomnia too so it may be a little worse for me than some.

I am hypersensitive. Sometimes just a 250mg shot of test E would make me twitch in the middle of the night and wake up.
masteron? Panic attacks.

probably because i injected in the morning and then levels rose during the night.

Next cycle i will try injecting in the evening.

I know guys time their tren ace shots because it hits so hard.

 

[bradleyt1]

I don’t think Test messes with mine too much. There’s no doubt I’m zippier and able to be /more aggressive/more anxious/more energetic/more wired at night needing more help to get to sleep at a decent hour.
I refuse to run gear where I’m going to sleep less than 5 hours a night. I slept 8 hours the last 2 nights and it’s freaking glorious. I’m certain there’s drugs that will help most not competing at a high level achieve their goals without sacrificing sleep. Dienolone is a great alternative to Tren IMO.
But what I’ve noticed is all 19nors make it a little harder to sleep , just a bit more than test, Trest included, than DHTs are amongst the worst, orals being even worse than injectables. Than Tren and a few others.
But everyone is so different some have full on panic disorder on test, but can run dht’s with no problem. Just generally speaking. But usually the higher the dose the more the insomnia. 750+ for test and over 500+ for npp or 250 for trest.
I don’t see much reason for 90% of us to run those numbers anyhow. But ya that’s my take on it.
I don’t do well without sleep so I take action. Sometimes just some kava tea, sometimes phenibut and CBD, and then sometimes a little trazadone. I’m already someone with mild anxiety and insomnia too so it may be a little worse for me than some.

Thank you for such an awesome response bro!!

 

[Matthersby]

I am hypersensitive. Sometimes just a 250mg shot of test E would make me twitch in the middle of the night and wake up.
masteron? Panic attacks.

probably because i injected in the morning and then levels rose during the night.

Next cycle i will try injecting in the evening.

I know guys time their tren ace shots because it hits so hard.

I can’t even imagine the threads you’d start if you used Tren..

I keed I keed

 

[CroLifter]

I can’t even imagine the threads you’d start if you used Tren..

I keed I keed

Hahahahahahhahahahahahha man we will see.
Might look into that dienolone thing you praise.

however imho what would be the difference instead of just running lower dose of tren?

We will see man haha depedning on how i will feel next spring.

The problem is that i have tren ace now and the temptwtion will be high.
But we will see.

 

[CroLifter]

Never mind dont wanna spam up yet another thread.

it seems that i am becoming sort of a celebrity around here

 

[Ironpirate]

At no point did I catch what you are getting at here.
Maybe you were talking to OP but quoting me.
I don’t use Tren. Pretty much all steroids make it a little harder to sleep, some more than others, and some time periods more than others. Trazadone is probably the safest sleep aid on earth however antihistamines(and even though it’s not advertised antihistamines are what they put in otc sleep aids-Advil PM, etc) have been linked to early onset alzheimers. So I’ll take the script for some mild insomnia.
But I do agree with you, There are several steroids I won’t use because the sides require more medication or are too unpleasant-or the risk:reward is not worth it.

I agree that trazadone is a much better sleep aid compared to some otc sleep aids. It can also help with some of the mild psychological issues the aas sometimes gives us.

 

[Zvch]

What's the best way if any to get good or decent sleep on tren?
LOW Dose daily ACE. DSIP? Sleeping pills? melatonin? Anyone have this figured out .. last time I did not have much trouble sleeping just crazy dreams . This time I want a game plan just incase .

I've never had trouble sleeping whatsoever on Tren, even at 350mg Ace a week along with 250 Test and 20mg LGD. No night sweats unless I had too many carbs, no real mood swings or emotional/mental side-effects. In my opinion you never even need to go that high with your Tren dose. Running it again I would never go over 250mg a week just because of how harsh it is and the way I began to feel physically after 6 weeks or so.

Could just be that I tolerate it pretty well but I've noticed a trend in most people that complain of bad side-effects from Tren:


1) They're running too much Tren

2) They don't know how to run Tren. They're not keeping blood levels stable enough. Tren Ace should be pinned every day. Tren E should be pinned 2-3x a week. Everybody metabolizes these compounds at different rates. Half-life needs to be taken into account but is also not a universal rate of metabolism for every single person. Also, 200mg of Tren could be way stronger for one person than it is for someone else - just like 200mg of Test doesn't get everyone to the same Total Testosterone level. Every doc doesn't have every patient on the same TRT dose. Some are on more than others and some need to inject the same ester more often than others.

Some people feel great on Tren Ace every other day, some people feel like crap. Some people feel great on E once a week, some people feel like crap. Tren is a harsh hormone and blood levels need to be kept as stable as possible. The fluctuations in blood levels are what is responsible for most of the side-effects, not the hormone itself.
If you want to take big boy drugs, nut up and pin every or every other day.

3) They're taking too much Tren in one shot (see "They don't know how to run Tren" above").
Tren is strong and stimulates the central nervous system - especially a shorter ester like an acetate.
The more often you pin, the less Tren you have to pin in one shot.

Say I want to run Tren A or E at 300-350mg a week. If I'm pinning E once a week that's 300-350mg in one shot. If I'm pinning E twice a week, that's still 150mg or more in one shot.

I'm going to have a BIG spike and a BIG dip in hormone levels.

If I want to run Ace at the same amount and pin every other day, I'm pinning 100mg or more of Tren Ace in one shot. I don't know about you, but if I pin more than 50mg of Tren Ace at a time, I can feel it. How in the world do you expect to pin that much Tren in one shot and be able to sleep great? I'm sure some people can handle it but I'd bet most can't.

4) They're not keeping their other androgens low enough. Their Test dose is too high or they're taking too many other drugs alongside Tren. I wouldn't go over 250 Test while on Tren, I don't feel good when I do. 150-200 Test is all you need.

Too much androgenic activity is going to keep you up at night regardless of what you're running and Tren is one of the strongest androgens in existence. You don't need much else when Tren is on board. Yeah, we all like to get a little nutty from time to time but if you can't gain on 200 Test/200 Tren, you probably shouldn't be touching anything. Lower Test, lower-moderate Tren and one other SARM, oral or low dosed injectable is all you ever need for a good cycle.
Don't expect to run 2000-3000mg/week total of any androgen and be able to sleep fine.

5) They're not keeping their prolactin in check or are oversuppressing their prolactin. Most people don't have prolactin issues on Tren. Most of the ones that do don't think they do because they're not lactating even when their head is all screwed up and they're having mood swings. Elevated prolactin can be an explanation of the "rage" people complain of on Tren, along with many other side-effects. Start at a very minimal dose of Caber 2x/week after a week of starting the cycle and then pay attention to your mood and how you feel.

6) Also running Tren without a Test base... don't do that.

 

[Jinsun]

Also, 200mg of Tren could be way stronger for one person than it is for someone else - just like 200mg of Test doesn't get everyone to the same Total Testosterone level. Every doc doesn't have every patient on the same TRT dose. Some are on more than others and some need to inject the same ester more often than others.

This is so understated! The way different people absorb drugs, can be night and day. 250mg's of test gets me 3x above labs range, for a lot of people it can be 1.5x. So this means 250 test for me, is like 400/500 for somebody else. It's the same with other compounds! Not to mention that we all metabolise drugs differently, making half life's only an approximation. Then when you account all other pharmacokinetics variables and since we are not using pharma grade gear, it's really really hard to tell of the bat to somebody how much and how to take something Exactly. We can ballpark it, but beyond that, it's personal trial and error.

Fyi, all androgens f*ck up my sleep. 250 test is max that I can handle, if I want to sleep relatively ok. But I am a very bad sleeper as is, without drugs. Need to try LGD to see how it affects my sleep.

 

[ItalOne]

Interesting feedback from everyone. I already knew all this but this is the same in all forums, there is NO RIGHT answer. We are all wired different. @cro is a perfect example. I don’t use an AI until I’m above 300mg of test and I feel awesome!!

We all experience different sides from different drugs at different dosages. I can run a gram of Mast and EQ together with NO issues. But test above 500mg makes me aggressive and short of breath, it also jacks up my blood pressure. Same with all methyls and anything highly adrogenic. No f@wking way prolactin effects my rage because just a 150mg a week of tren ace makes want to run over a little old lady trying to cross the street.

The rage for me is real! I’ve come close to getting myself arrested!! That small amount of tren will also limit my sleep to 3 - 4 hours a night. I mean I have only been getting 5-6 hrs of sleep anyway for the last 10 years, but that’s because I work two jobs at crazy hours.

I think it’s funny we all share our experiences yet they are all different. Not sure how helpful that is?

 

[Zvch]

Interesting feedback from everyone. I already knew all this but this is the same in all forums, there is NO RIGHT answer. We are all wired different. @cro is a perfect example. I don’t use an AI until I’m above 300mg of test and I feel awesome!!

We all experience different sides from different drugs at different dosages. I can run a gram of Mast and EQ together with NO issues. But test above 500mg makes me aggressive and short of breath, it also jacks up my blood pressure. Same with all methyls and anything highly adrogenic. No f@wking way prolactin effects my rage because just a 150mg a week of tren ace makes want to run over a little old lady trying to cross the street.
The rage for me is real! I’ve come close to getting myself arrested!! That small amount of tren will also limit my sleep to 3 - 4 hours a night. I mean I have only been getting 5-6 hrs of sleep anyway for the last 10 years, but that’s because I work two jobs at crazy hours.

I think it’s funny we all share are experiences yet they are a different. Not sure how helpful that is?

It's definitely fascinating. Some people have rare reactions to completely normal drugs. A certain percentage of people that take NAC for example have a rare deadly reaction.

With AAS there's really no way to know until you test the waters yourself. Everyone's endocrine system is different and everyone has different levels of hormones, different levels of neurotransmitters, and different release and production rates of those hormones and neurotransmitters. And they all interact with each other differently.

Some people just react in a less than ideal way to androgens, especially Tren and there's no real way to tell why. The point I wanted to stress was that if you're having problems with it, you definitely want to look at the amount you're taking at one time, the way you're taking it and the frequency first, then take a look at what you're taking with it.

And you'd probably do fine with LGD but it'll give you some NUTTY dreams that's for sure.

 

[CroLifter]

Interesting feedback from everyone. I already knew all this but this is the same in all forums, there is NO RIGHT answer. We are all wired different. @cro is a perfect example. I don’t use an AI until I’m above 300mg of test and I feel awesome!!

We all experience different sides from different drugs at different dosages. I can run a gram of Mast and EQ together with NO issues. But test above 500mg makes me aggressive and short of breath, it also jacks up my blood pressure. Same with all methyls and anything highly adrogenic. No f@wking way prolactin effects my rage because just a 150mg a week of tren ace makes want to run over a little old lady trying to cross the street.

The rage for me is real! I’ve come close to getting myself arrested!! That small amount of tren will also limit my sleep to 3 - 4 hours a night. I mean I have only been getting 5-6 hrs of sleep anyway for the last 10 years, but that’s because I work two jobs at crazy hours.

I think it’s funny we all share our experiences yet they are all different. Not sure how helpful that is?

When you said " @cro ", you were talking about me, right? Or about the user cro, which from what i can see havent posted since 2008.

I could talk about mental sides all day. Some i like, some i dread. Test makes me feel amped up, full of adrenaline for some reason (too much sometimes as my heart gets jittery), i get a good boost in libido and motivation.
Mast makes me just plain aggressive (not mean, just aggressive, sometimes i feel like a protector of the earth hahah). But the trouble is that oversti ulates my cns and at 300+ mg per week fives me panic attacks out of the blue. The scary ones. And that is not pleasant.

 

[bradleyt1]

When you said " @cro ", you were talking about me, right? Or about the user cro, which from what i can see havent posted since 2008.

I could talk about mental sides all day. Some i like, some i dread. Test makes me feel amped up, full of adrenaline for some reason (too much sometimes as my heart gets jittery), i get a good boost in libido and motivation.
Mast makes me just plain aggressive (not mean, just aggressive, sometimes i feel like a protector of the earth hahah). But the trouble is that oversti ulates my cns and at 300+ mg per week fives me panic attacks out of the blue. The scary ones. And that is not pleasant.

Are you talking about masteron over 30g weekly giving you panic attacks? Or testosterone? But again that’s the beauty of being on TRT and actually able to do bloodwork. Like for me 350mg of pharm grade test cypionate split twice weekly 175 mon and 175 Thursday had me a total test level of 2,136.. that’s from 35g weekly so I dunno know why people think they need 500+ mg per week especially like 750- 1000mg of test..

 

[CroLifter]

Are you talking about masteron over 30g weekly giving you panic attacks? Or testosterone? But again that’s the beauty of being on TRT and actually able to do bloodwork. Like for me 350mg of pharm grade test cypionate split twice weekly 175 mon and 175 Thursday had me a total test level of 2,136.. that’s from 35g weekly so I dunno know why people think they need 500+ mg per week especially like 750- 1000mg of test..

Masteron at 300mg plus.

 

[Mathb33]

Are you talking about masteron over 30g weekly giving you panic attacks? Or testosterone? But again that’s the beauty of being on TRT and actually able to do bloodwork. Like for me 350mg of pharm grade test cypionate split twice weekly 175 mon and 175 Thursday had me a total test level of 2,136.. that’s from 35g weekly so I dunno know why people think they need 500+ mg per week especially like 750- 1000mg of test..

Because 2,100 isn’t very high for a blast/cycle?

 

[bradleyt1]

Because 2,100 isn’t very high for a blast/cycle?

Yeah 2,100 really isn’t that insane when you think about it. I have had levels like that for an extended period of time with absolute perfect bloodwork like perfect lipids, no elevated liver enzymes, hematocrit hemoglobin all in range. Yet I know other guys that just hit 1100 or so on TRT who have to donate blood every 3 months.. go figure.. everyone is different.

 

[Jinsun]

Yeah 2,100 really isn’t that insane when you think about it. I have had levels like that for an extended period of time with absolute perfect bloodwork like perfect lipids, no elevated liver enzymes, hematocrit hemoglobin all in range. Yet I know other guys that just hit 1100 or so on TRT who have to donate blood every 3 months.. go figure.. everyone is different.

2100 is what? A little more then double the TRT dose? 200 to 250mg's? That's not a lot. That's a "base", you need other aas with that in order to grow, withinh 8 to 12 weeks imo.

 

[CroLifter]

2100 is what? A little more then double the TRT dose? 200 to 250mg's? That's not a lot. That's a "base", you need other aas with that in order to grow, withinh 8 to 12 weeks imo.

2100 at the trough is more like 350 - 400mg per week. Even if you are pinning 2x per week.

 

[bradleyt1]

2100 at the trough is more like 350 - 400mg per week. Even if you are pinning 2x per week.

Please explain when the trough is? Because for me the 2,100 total test came when injecting 175mg on Monday then 175mg on Thursday.. then drawing blood 24 hours after the pin so on Friday morning.. so the 2,100 is a peak number! So not so crazy.. now.. if you pin Monday and Thursday and draw blood say Sunday right before your pin and have that 2,100 now that’s pretty crazy because.. is that what a trough is??

 

[CroLifter]

Please explain when the trough is? Because for me the 2,100 total test came when injecting 175mg on Monday then 175mg on Thursday.. then drawing blood 24 hours after the pin so on Friday morning.. so the 2,100 is a peak number! So not so crazy.. now.. if you pin Monday and Thursday and draw blood say Sunday right before your pin and have that 2,100 now that’s pretty crazy because.. is that what a trough is??

Oh ok
if you want to find out trough levels test just before the next injection.
that morning, right before you pin (or whatever time of the day that might be).

edit: i estimate the numbers from general studies (i am pretty close to those numbers) but obviously there are outliers. Gaussian curve.

 

[Outofbody]

I've recently discovered the magical combination of hydroxyzine (prescription anti-histamine) taken with phenibut (and maybe some mary jane on top personally, but not needed). Works every time for me, even better than DSIP at hefty doses.

 

[Outofbody]

Next cycle i will try injecting in the evening.

I know guys time their tren ace shots because it hits so hard.

Last two times I ran tren ace, I did nightly shots and didn't have much trouble with sleep.

 

[CroLifter]

Last two times I ran tren ace, I did nightly shots and didn't have much trouble with sleep.

Ever tried injecting tren ace subq? I dont see why it couldnt be done if test can be injected subq (i do this routinely).

I am a micro-manager and the original idea, if i am going to run it, was to start by injecting 20mg ed and then if i feel ok, up that to 25mg ed. And that is it. No crazy doses for me (my physique wouldnt justify higher doses anyway).

 

[Mathb33]

2100 at the trough is more like 350 - 400mg per week. Even if you are pinning 2x per week.

What? 400mg I’ll be wayyyy over 2100 lol. Most people will be between 1600-2100 on 250-275mg

 

[Outofbody]

Ever tried injecting tren ace subq? I dont see why it couldnt be done if test can be injected subq (i do this routinely).

I am a micro-manager and the original idea, if i am going to run it, was to start by injecting 20mg ed and then if i feel ok, up that to 25mg ed. And that is it. No crazy doses for me (my physique wouldnt justify higher doses anyway).

Yep I shot with .5” slin pins nightly to my glutes and delts

300-350mg / week tren ace, with only a TRT dose of test

 

[CroLifter]

What? 400mg I’ll be wayyyy over 2100 lol. Most people will be between 1600-2100 on 250-275mg

Invalid Link Removed
600mg (presumably pinned once a week) and nadir (trough) levels were 2370 ng/dl on average.

 

[Mathb33]

Invalid Link Removed
600mg (presumably pinned once a week) and nadir (trough) levels were 2370 ng/dl on average.

Idc about those studies, look around what you see here on bloodworks. If 600mg brings you at 2000 I’d stop Anabolics. You see people posting their bloods all the time.

 

[bradleyt1]

Idc about those studies, look around what you see here on bloodworks. If 600mg brings you at 2000 I’d stop Anabolics. You see people posting their bloods all the time.

Bro i don’t get how guys hit such high numbers on little test.. but everyone’s body is so very different in how they metabolize

 

[Matthersby]

Bro i don’t get how guys hit such high numbers on little test.. but everyone’s body is so very different in how they metabolize

Just depends on things. Just a little Proviron alongside my TRT dose of test and 200-250 test put me at 1480 with my free test 120 points out of range. I usually don’t break 1150 on TRT.
Just knowing this, with some primed receptors(anyone who hasn’t cycled in 3-4 months) and 600 should put you over 1900. In theory. And with a trillion other factors affecting it.

 

[CroLifter]

Just depends on things. Just a little Proviron alongside my TRT dose of test and 200-250 test put me at 1480 with my free test 120 points out of range. I usually don’t break 1150 on TRT.
Just knowing this, with some primed receptors(anyone who hasn’t cycled in 3-4 months) and 600 should put you over 1900. In theory. And with a trillion other factors affecting it.

So you are running at 1000ng/dl + year round and then blast on top of it?

You are bulletproof.

 

[Zvch]

Just depends on things. Just a little Proviron alongside my TRT dose of test and 200-250 test put me at 1480 with my free test 120 points out of range. I usually don’t break 1150 on TRT.
Just knowing this, with some primed receptors(anyone who hasn’t cycled in 3-4 months) and 600 should put you over 1900. In theory. And with a trillion other factors affecting it.

How much Proviron do you run with your protocol? 50mg/day? And do you feel like that interrupts your androgen receptors resensitizing in between cycles? I'm curious because I have a ton laying around and I'm in between cycles right now just trying to give my body a nice 2 month break.

 

[CroLifter]

How much Proviron do you run with your protocol? 50mg/day? And do you feel like that interrupts your androgen receptors resensitizing in between cycles? I'm curious because I have a ton laying around and I'm in between cycles right now just trying to give my body a nice 2 month break.

As far as i know proviron doesnt bind to receptors in muscle tissue well as it is deactivated by 3-betahydroxisteroiddehydrogenase.

damn that word...

 

[Zvch]

As far as i know proviron doesnt bind to receptors in muscle tissue well as it is deactivated by 3-betahydroxisteroiddehydrogenase.

damn that word...

Can anyone confirm or deny this? I'm googling right now because you may have just made my day

All I know about Proviron from experience is I feel pretty good on it, 75mg+ dries me out NICE, and it makes my load size double at least

 

[Matthersby]

So you are running at 1000ng/dl + year round and then blast on top of it?

You are bulletproof.

No silly. That’s my total test. I barely ever go over 200mg. No need.

 

[Matthersby]

Can anyone confirm or deny this? I'm googling right now because you may have just made my day

All I know about Proviron from experience is I feel pretty good on it, 75mg+ dries me out NICE, and it makes my load size double at least

I wouldn’t care if it bound to brain tissue and caused bed wetting, it damn brought my SHBG down to 5, and total test 120 out of range. I was using Trest at 110, and it felt like 300.

 

[Matthersby]

The muscle I gained certainly wasn’t from Proviron; it was from Proviron binding up SHBG and turning not even an ml of Trest a week into Popeyes Spinach....on steroids...

 

[Zvch]

The muscle I gained certainly wasn’t from Proviron; it was from Proviron binding up SHBG and turning not even an ml of Trest a week into Popeyes Spinach....on steroids...

How much Proviron were/are you taking?

 

[Matthersby]

How much Proviron do you run with your protocol? 50mg/day? And do you feel like that interrupts your androgen receptors resensitizing in between cycles? I'm curious because I have a ton laying around and I'm in between cycles right now just trying to give my body a nice 2 month break.

Ya. 50-75. Probably could even get away with 25 if that’s all you had. It doesn’t do anything much on its own but dry you out a little and safeguard nips. But damn it frees up your other gear like nothing else can. I’d seriously love to run it year round.

 

[Matthersby]

This year I’m discovering the hidden treasures of bodybuilding, especially for the blast and cruise TRT athlete.
Cardarine(GW), Proviron, BPC157/TB500. Best things I’ve given a try since first using Trest in 2015. They are now staples for me.

 

[Zvch]

This year I’m discovering the hidden treasures of bodybuilding, especially for the blast and cruise TRT athlete.
Cardarine(GW), Proviron, BPC157/TB500. Best things I’ve given a try since first using Trest in 2015. They are now staples for me.

Cardarine and SR-9009 are two of my favorites. Extremely performance enhancing. It's awesome to have compounds like that to utilize when you're off cycle.

I loved Trest but it got really difficult to control the estrogen for me. Then again I was pinning 20-30mg a day plus oral Trest 40-60mg pre-workout. I never tried adding in Proviron or running it without a Test base though, just Arimdex. When I run it again I'm definitely going to try running it without a base.

The only thing I didn't like about Trest other than the estrogen conversion is that it made me super detached and emotionless toward the end. Tren didn't even come close to how numb Trest made me.

 

[Matthersby]

Cardarine and SR-9009 are two of my favorites. Extremely performance enhancing. It's awesome to have compounds like that to utilize when you're off cycle.

I loved Trest but it got really difficult to control the estrogen for me. Then again I was pinning 20-30mg a day plus oral Trest 40-60mg pre-workout. I never tried adding in Proviron or running it without a Test base though, just Arimdex. When I run it again I'm definitely going to try running it without a base.

The only thing I didn't like about Trest other than the estrogen conversion is that it made me super detached and emotionless toward the end. Tren didn't even come close to how numb Trest made me.

Interesting. It does make me energetic and positive but also quite hateful and irritable towards humanity. And sometimes my gf’s kids.(well highly annoyed, not hateful). It brings my patience down several notches. I’m interested to see what my transition off Trest on to NPP does with my mood.

So, this place is loaded with smart guys that can tell you endless info about every drug, chemical makeup, ratios, studies, etc etc. I’m not one of them, but with Trest Ace, I’ve without a doubt run more of it than anyone here. It started when I had 8 20ml vials starting 2016 so I ran it most of the year, with test, without test. I studied what it does to labs and how to control the estrogen (Which after using it for 4 years, sometimes 6 months out of the year) I’ve learned some creative ways and have very little gyno to show for it. (Pea sized lumps behind the nipple that I’ll never get smaller than that)
1. Raloxifene ALL DAY LONG
2. DHT (Proviron SD Msten Winnie Var) have all worked (but I’ve still adhered to AI and Ralox, however less aggressively)
3. AI. I’ve found it’s not needed running Trest sans test
4. Inhibit P and/or low dose Prami/Caber - this is more preventative and really doesn’t do anything unless you’ve already let things get out of control. Typically estro has to be so far out of whack that prolactin will start to rise.
5. Nolva - you’ll need quite a bit as it’s not near as effective as Ralox is. But if you’re in a bind and it’s all you have, get 20mg in you stat.

I’ve never ran oral, TD, or Trest Deca mainly bc Ace is my one true love and I’m faithful to her.

 

[Zvch]

Interesting. It does make me energetic and positive but also quite hateful and irritable towards humanity. And sometimes my gf’s kids.(well highly annoyed, not hateful). It brings my patience down several notches. I’m interested to see what my transition off Trest on to NPP does with my mood.

So, this place is loaded with smart guys that can tell you endless info about every drug, chemical makeup, ratios, studies, etc etc. I’m not one of them, but with Trest Ace, I’ve without a doubt run more of it than anyone here. It started when I had 8 20ml vials starting 2016 so I ran it most of the year, with test, without test. I studied what it does to labs and how to control the estrogen (Which after using it for 4 years, sometimes 6 months out of the year) I’ve learned some creative ways and have very little gyno to show for it. (Pea sized lumps behind the nipple that I’ll never get smaller than that)
1. Raloxifene ALL DAY LONG
2. DHT (Proviron SD Msten Winnie Var) have all worked (but I’ve still adhered to AI and Ralox, however less aggressively)
3. AI. I’ve found it’s not needed running Trest sans test
4. Inhibit P and/or low dose Prami/Caber - this is more preventative and really doesn’t do anything unless you’ve already let things get out of control. Typically estro has to be so far out of whack that prolactin will start to rise.
5. Nolva - you’ll need quite a bit as it’s not near as effective as Ralox is. But if you’re in a bind and it’s all you have, get 20mg in you stat.

I’ve never ran oral, TD, or Trest Deca mainly bc Ace is my one true love and I’m faithful to her.

Trest Ace is something I'm for sure going to run again but I wouldn't run it until my bodyfat is lower. I convert at a decent rate to begin with and usually need 1mg Arimidex a week, sometimes an extra .25 for just 200-225mg of Test.

I have noticed the nutrient partitioning of Trest is pretty much on the same level as Tren, you just can't really tell until you come off and the bloating goes away. For me it's basically wet Tren. I feel pretty much the same on it, slightly better on Tren. The strength and the gains are similar.

Oral Trest is a hell of a pre-workout drug. 60mg+ is like god-mode in the gym. I've noticed that I built a tolerance with it pretty quickly though so I need 80mg to feel it anymore. It's still something I use year round maybe once a week or every other week. I'd highly recommend it. Medfit Rx's Trestolone is fantastic.

 

[Matthersby]

Trest Ace is something I'm for sure going to run again but I wouldn't run it until my bodyfat is lower. I convert at a decent rate to begin with and usually need 1mg Arimidex a week, sometimes an extra .25 for just 200-225mg of Test.

I have noticed the nutrient partitioning of Trest is pretty much on the same level as Tren, you just can't really tell until you come off and the bloating goes away. For me it's basically wet Tren. I feel pretty much the same on it, slightly better on Tren. The strength and the gains are similar.

Oral Trest is a hell of a pre-workout drug. 60mg+ is like god-mode in the gym. I've noticed that I built a tolerance with it pretty quickly though so I need 80mg to feel it anymore. It's still something I use year round maybe once a week or every other week. I'd highly recommend it. Medfit Rx's Trestolone is fantastic.

Trest + DHT smokes Tren. Bigger and just as lean with next to no sides and better labs