Training with Degenerative disc disease in Thoracic spine

v4lu3s

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I recently had an X ray for my lungs and it was noted I had moderate degeneration of my discs in the mid thoracic region of my spine.

Lots of information about lumbar spine discs and weight training...but not much I can find about thoracic. Anyone had any experience with this?

I am 41, 6'2" and 240 about 12-13% bodyfat, been weight training for ten years, was diagnosed with scoliosis as a kid and last x ray for scoliosis was when I was 19. Competed in powerlifting and men's physique last year. I was just about to start peaking for another powerlifting meet when the diagnosis was given to me. Recent weights have been 550 deadlift, 430 squat, 350 bench press and 245 strict military press. I am also a firefighter so I can't just up and stop working out...

I am concerned that lifting heavy, especially powerlifting, olympic and strongman lifts will accelerate the wear and tear on my spine.

If anyone can share their experience or link me to some good info I would appreciate it.
 
Hyde

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Degenerative disc disease is a bs catch-all name applied to every X-Ray that comes back showing a dried up/bulging/herniated disc. It's estimated that some 60% of the population likely lives every day with herniated discs, yet many experience no symptoms (i.e., pain). And if you have no pain or loss of function/numbness (from the bulging causing nerve impingements, such as sciatica) then you are in a great place my friend!

Even if there is pain, this is by no means a death sentence. For one thing, discs will dry, harden, and callous over time - essentially healing themselves. In fact, even people with tremendous disc pain in their younger years almost always report the disc pain is totally gone by the time they're into their 60s. So it's not like the disc damage you have now will cause greater issues in your twilight years.

The biggest thing with healing discs is to remove whatever stimulus is aggravating them until they calm down and replacing them with better movement patterns. Learning not to round the back/put it in flexion (or excessive extension for that matter) is a big part of this, as well as learning how to brace the core and lats while moving under load. Walking with long strides often, daily, is a final major component of keeping discs (and the heart!) healthy. Something about 2-3 20 min walks a day really tends to quiet disc pain down a lot.
 
Hyde

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If you are having pain I highly recommend buying the paperback book Back Mechanic by Dr. Stuart McGill. I bought it off amazon for like $36 shipped and it's worth every penny.

He's the best spine doc in the world and has helped lifters like Brian Carroll and Chris Duffin continue on to set world records in powerlifting. No weight is too dangerous if you are strong and precise enough to move it the right way!
 
clk

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If you are having pain I highly recommend buying the paperback book Back Mechanic by Dr. Stuart McGill. I bought it off amazon for like $36 shipped and it's worth every penny.

He's the best spine doc in the world and has helped lifters like Brian Carroll and Chris Duffin continue on to set world records in powerlifting. No weight is too dangerous if you are strong and precise enough to move it the right way!
I second this book. I was hit by 2 IED'S on deployment and compressed my L3/L4. It was suggested that I get surgery, but I opted out, worked with a therapist, read this book (among several others) implemented everything that I could, and now I'm good to go and have been for some time. I do strongman and am routinely doing yoke runs with 600+ pounds on my shoulders as well as squat 2x a week with no issue.
 

v4lu3s

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Good information to have. Thanks for the leads I am going to look into some reading then rather than browsing the web.

I do have a slightly achy spot mid back that has occurred from time to time, though i never associated it with anything in particular, but it corresponds to the t4 to t7 region. In addition I frequently have numbness in my hands especially at night, with the most numbness occurring on the pinky and ring fingers and the edge of my palm. Against never associated it with anything else though.

For now I am being somewhat cautious...for the next few weeks at least I have taken my favorite exercises out of rotation, squats, deads and military press. Arthritis in both shoulders has me doing mostly db bench as well. Between the arthritis in my shoulders breaking my left tibia twice in the past 3 years and recent occupational asthma having that little note about disc problems was not fun.

Years ago I set a goal of 200 military press, 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead...now I want to add 100lbs to each of those lifts...definitely don't want to hurt myself doing it, but on the other hand I am not mentally ready to lift lighter/moderate weights...
 
clk

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Fruit for thought, many people's back pain, especially thoracic, is often due to weak INNER abdominal muscles. This is not always cured by the normal ab work like situps and crunches.
 
Hyde

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You absolutely don't need to give up heavier lifting. If you can train without repercussions like back spasms or significant pain (not general muscle soreness) after training then you may actively pursue your strength training (thoughtfully of course, always!).

If you are currently having pain then you will need to implement a plan of attack to get you healthy enough to train. Between that book and a GOOD phys therapist you should be able to get right if you are willing to put in the work. But it sounds like you're ready to go now and don't need any special effort other than to really focus on proper bracing and technique to stay safe.

Chris Duffin has some excellent free resources on proper lifting technique on his website and YouTube vids, as well as an extremely in-depth $10/month website called Kabuki.MS (which I haven't tried personally).
 

v4lu3s

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I'm a bad judge of pain. No pain meds when a crushed my left calf and fractured the tibia, then 18 months later I fractured it again and hiked 22+ miles in the mountains on it with a 70lb pack, no pain meds for kidney stones. I definitely have an achey feeling that is NOT muscular that is reduced by perfect posture. Thanks for the lead on Duffin. The more I ca learn the better off i am.
 
Hyde

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To put it in perspective before things got bad every week after deadlift I'd have to lie on the floor for half an hour fairly motionless to decompress. Then I could get into a plank position to transfer into a lunge, then stand up so I could now squat vertically so I could get the milk out of my fridge without leaning forward and spasming and dropping it/falling to the floor. I just accepted this as part of deadlift training, it was usually only once a week.

By the time it broke me I went in to squat my opener a week and a half before comp. I took 385 in my belt and sleeves, 2 lifts out from an opener still, and crashed down into the pins. I can squat 405 buck naked any day of the week with a headcold at 3am and no warmup if I have to, and here I was belted and ready to rock unable to do 385 without knives in my back.

You have to expect some pains with heavy lifting over the long haul, but if they are crippling or progressing in severity they need to be addressed. If it's just a lil something briefly here and there...well that's probably just weightlifting.
 

v4lu3s

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Considering after the car crushed my leg against the corner of the garage wall and pushed the wall back 2 inches, with my leg between, i pushed the car off and walked to the ambulance I am not sure I would know what hurts enough to stop. When I tore the acl in my shoulder i was still benching max out despite the socket separating, ended up taking almost a year off benching. Until I get a hold of some of those readings and books I am taking a few weeks off from anything that loads my spine a lot, if things get to the point i cannot walk or stand my career ends...
 
Hyde

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Sounds like you got your answer. Good luck in your journey!
 

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