Trainer pushing too many calories?

[ToxicOverwatch]

Hey guys, I have been working with a local trainer with the goal of an aggressive, yet lean bulk and just wanted to compare strategy/philosophy with more experienced guys. My concern is that I’m in TOO much of a surplus as I’m gaining 2.5~ lbs per week.

35 male
5ft11
Training for a few years as a novice, and could probably be labeled as intermediate experience.
Currently training 6 days a week in PPL, daily zone 2 cardio for 30 minutes.
TRT for 7 years.
Current primo/NPP/test cycle. (450T, 300NPP, 400Primo) (labs in 2 weeks)

I started at 193 lbs at roughly 10%-15%BF and was eating about 2200 cal at 50% protein, 35% carbs, 15% fat clean. My trainer bumped me to 2600 cal for a couple weeks, 3000 for a couple weeks, 3600 for three weeks, and just now bumped me to 3850. Macros are about 60% carbs, 25% pro, and 15% fat. I am now at 216, gaining roughly 2.5 lbs per week.

The positive is that I am defiantly growing. Measurements in chest, shoulders, arms, thighs, and waist are growing. Waist being a large concern for me has grown from 36.5” to 38 in a bit over a month.

My apologies for the longer post, I just wanted to give enough information. My question is, is there a legitimate reason to be pushing 3600-3800 calories? Sure I want to grow but 2.5 lbs per week seems excessive to me. I want to grow but I don’t want to gain an unreasonable amount of fat.

 

[ironviking]

First off where the heck did you get Primo?? every source I know has been dry for months (no not asking for a source just amazed someone found it) not going to comment much on the dosages but I'd drop the Test down a bit and bump up the Primo...but that's me.
Really the calorie range while on gear seems about right. He was smart to ramp up your calories instead of just adding them all in at once. In fact I'd say you could go up a bit more, ~100 cals, with the amount of cardio you are doing. NPP and Test can cause water retention, the Primo should help some hence why I say adjust the dosages slightly but there are guys on here way more experienced than I am with that. The water retention is going to skew the numbers on the scale. Your best bet is to get a bodycomp done. You said you started at 10%-15%, that is a wide margin best to get a BF measurement done before starting so you can gauge your diet a bit better. As of now though I'd say get a bodycomp done and then determine a BF% level you are ok with getting to, I wouldn't go above 20% unless you are just trying to gain as much as possible or going for a powerlifting comp.

 

[Smont]

First off where the heck did you get Primo?? every source I know has been dry for months (no not asking for a source just amazed someone found it) not going to comment much on the dosages but I'd drop the Test down a bit and bump up the Primo...but that's me.
Really the calorie range while on gear seems about right. He was smart to ramp up your calories instead of just adding them all in at once. In fact I'd say you could go up a bit more, ~100 cals, with the amount of cardio you are doing. NPP and Test can cause water retention, the Primo should help some hence why I say adjust the dosages slightly but there are guys on here way more experienced than I am with that. The water retention is going to skew the numbers on the scale. Your best bet is to get a bodycomp done. You said you started at 10%-15%, that is a wide margin best to get a BF measurement done before starting so you can gauge your diet a bit better. As of now though I'd say get a bodycomp done and then determine a BF% level you are ok with getting to, I wouldn't go above 20% unless you are just trying to gain as much as possible or going for a powerlifting comp.

(My source recently email me that primo will be back in stock soon, no mast or hgh tho

I tell guys as soon as your abs disappear the bulk is over. I'm a little concerned also with his estimate of 10 to 15%, because 10% is shredded, abs veins and definition every body part. And 15% is when you got a little belly starting to show and you can only see those top two abs, maybe 4. Im similar height and weight as OP. While I can never be certain what my body fat actually is, using visual charts online tells me that for me personally the difference between 10 and 15% body fat is meaning I have to gain or lose 6-10lbs of pure fat, which realistically means I need to lose or gain more like 12 to 20 lb

Also, OP, guessing your calories is really hard because your lifestyle and activity levels make it vary soooooo much. At 195lbs my maintenance calories are around 3500, that's to just stay 195lbs. The last time I bolt up to 220 I was eating 4,500 calories a day by the end.

With all that being said, it sounds to me like he's just raising your calories too fast and he's prioritizing total weight gain over muscle growth. But also in a situation where you're not trying to raise your doses, more food is really the only option. Typically I alternate between raising food and raising gear depending on body composition

 

[ToxicOverwatch]

Hey guys, thank you for the reply. I was just estimating body fat loosely, here is a photo for reference. This was just before beginning this cycle. My apologies for the confusion, I have just heard very different opinions on BF percentage.

It is really good to hear your opinions. 2.5 pounds of weight gain per week is just a little alarming for me is all. I don’t mind trusting the process if that is truly the right call. I just don’t want to be trying to get rid of 25+pounds of fat.

If the bulk is over, as soon as you lose the abs, then I am definitely over. Which really sucks. exactly this reason is why I was getting concerned about the rapid weight gain. And if that rule of thumb is legit, this trainer is going to push me into way too much weight gain in this cycle. When I had asked about it, he doesn’t seem quite as concerned as I am.

 

[Smont]

Hey guys, thank you for the reply. I was just estimating body fat loosely, here is a photo for reference. This was just before beginning this cycle. My apologies for the confusion, I have just heard very different opinions on BF percentage.

It is really good to hear your opinions. 2.5 pounds of weight gain per week is just a little alarming for me is all. I don’t mind trusting the process if that is truly the right call. I just don’t want to be trying to get rid of 25+pounds of fat.

If the bulk is over, as soon as you lose the abs, then I am definitely over. Which really sucks. exactly this reason is why I was getting concerned about the rapid weight gain. And if that rule of thumb is legit, this trainer is going to push me into way too much weight gain in this cycle. When I had asked about it, he doesn’t seem quite as concerned as I am.

You were closer to 10 then you were 15 if I was to judge by this picture alone.

2.5lbs a week is a lot unless you had currently been larger and leaner from previous cycles. Meaning it's easier to go back to a previous physique you already once had then attain it for the first time if that makes sense, so if you were bulking to a new size for the first time, two and a half pounds a week could be a little aggressive.

You could always pull the calories back for a few weeks until your body composition improves, it might not take as long as you think.

Also have you addressed any of this with the person doing your plan? It's your body and you're paying him so you should be able to let him know that you feel like you're gaining body fat too fast and you want to dial it back a little bit

 

[ToxicOverwatch]

You were closer to 10 then you were 15 if I was to judge by this picture alone.

2.5lbs a week is a lot unless you had currently been larger and leaner from previous cycles. Meaning it's easier to go back to a previous physique you already once had then attain it for the first time if that makes sense, so if you were bulking to a new size for the first time, two and a half pounds a week could be a little aggressive.

You could always pull the calories back for a few weeks until your body composition improves, it might not take as long as you think.

Also have you addressed any of this with the person doing your plan? It's your body and you're paying him so you should be able to let him know that you feel like you're gaining body fat too fast and you want to dial it back a little bit

I am heavily inclined to pull calories back to about 3300 but keeping the same ratios. Or at least go to a point where I am gaining a pound or a little bit less per week in hopes of regaining some of the lean momentum.

The trainer is a good dude, maybe not the most experienced which is what prompted me to get a second opinion. I have messaged with him here and there with my concerns. He agrees that it is a little aggressive, but wants to keep the course and watch or for a few weeks.

I attached line graphs of weight and measurement tracking. The last 3 weeks alone I went from 206 to 217ish.

 

[ironviking]

How long is the cycle? From that pic I'd say you were at a really good starting point composition wise. Almost 4lbs per week is quite a bit though. It might be worth it to dial back to 3500 for a couple weeks to see how you feel. Also you might want to get your BP tested. That much weight gain that quick has to be a lot of water too.

 

[ToxicOverwatch]

How long is the cycle? From that pic I'd say you were at a really good starting point composition wise. Almost 4lbs per week is quite a bit though. It might be worth it to dial back to 3500 for a couple weeks to see how you feel. Also you might want to get your BP tested. That much weight gain that quick has to be a lot of water too.

I am in week 3. Just doing 8 for npp and 12 for primo.

I’ve been watching BP pretty closely. It’s raised just a tad but nothing to be concerned with as of yet. Bloods are due in a couple weeks.

 

[ironviking]

I am in week 3. Just doing 8 for npp and 12 for primo.

I’ve been watching BP pretty closely. It’s raised just a tad but nothing to be concerned with as of yet. Bloods are due in a couple weeks.

Thinking about this a bit more and I want to say stay the course right now. My thinking is your calories at 2200 were actually low with a high amount of protein so you were probably glycogen depleted and possibly a bit dehydrated. I would expect a 3-4lb increase in the first week just purely glycogen and water replenishing. The next week was probably a bit of the same with the NPP taking effect causing more water retention and the last week pretty much the same. Your abs can get blurred with water retention so it can be deceiving at first. As long as your BP is in check and the bloods come back ok I'd say stick with ~3800 kcals for the next couple weeks and see where you are at then, things should even out a bit. Adjust the diet up or down at I'd say week 6. Seems like you are doing things right, wish more people would lean out, get bloods, and monitor BP - would make for much safer and effective cycles.

 

[ToxicOverwatch]

Thinking about this a bit more and I want to say stay the course right now. My thinking is your calories at 2200 were actually low with a high amount of protein so you were probably glycogen depleted and possibly a bit dehydrated. I would expect a 3-4lb increase in the first week just purely glycogen and water replenishing. The next week was probably a bit of the same with the NPP taking effect causing more water retention and the last week pretty much the same. Your abs can get blurred with water retention so it can be deceiving at first. As long as your BP is in check and the bloods come back ok I'd say stick with ~3800 kcals for the next couple weeks and see where you are at then, things should even out a bit. Adjust the diet up or down at I'd say week 6. Seems like you are doing things right, wish more people would lean out, get bloods, and monitor BP - would make for much safer and effective cycles.

Thank you for the insight and verification brother. I will do that and see where this goes. Trusting the process can be tough sometimes. I just keep my head down, eat, and turn my muscles into mush in the gym.