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Toremifene (fareston) - for Dr.D and others

Pemmican said:
I'm 2 weeks (halfway) through my A-Andro. 4AD and DecaVol cycle and my body is seriously starting to shut down...one thing is hanging a lot lower than usual but two other things are starting to whither away. I have Toremifene on hand for PCT...should i start taking low doses now so i dont get completely shut down???
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You don't get "completely" shut down.

You take in steroids, they clear, you take more. Eventually you will reach steady state conditions. Whatever rate of test production occurs at steady state, that's as low as it goes.

Steady State Explained:

Think about filling up a cup with a hole in the bottom. You turn on the sink, and water starts going into the cup. The sink is pouring water into the cup faster than the hole in the bottom can allow. This causes the cup to fill up. To prevent the cup from overflowing, the hole gets bigger and bigger, until the water level stays constant.

In the case of taking an steroid/prohormone, water level represents your serum levels, the water from the sink represents the exogenous prohormones, and the hole in the bottom of the cup represents shutdown.
 
Something to think about...
The only 2 SERMS I've ever used (on different occasions) were Ralox and Torem.
I dosed Torem at 60mg/day and felt a lot more emotional than Ralox!
Recovery was great but I hated the emotional sides and workouts were so-so.

Last PCT (Halo/Epi) I considered the half life of Torem(about 5 days) and decided to dose week 1 and 2 60mg/EOD and week 3 and 4 30mg/EOD.
The emotions were much more in check and maintained strength throughout PCT. Granted the boys weren't raisins (another reason for dosing) but what a difference all the way around.

Throw rocks for going against the grain here...but I think SERMS tend to be dosed a bit too high, and individual reaction will vary.
 
UnicronSpawn said:
Nice.

Yeah man, that inverse taper idea was definitely one of the most effective things I ever tried. I actually got the idea from Dr. D two or three years ago. It seems to work well.
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When you say inverse taper, do you mean that you took the higher doses towards the end of the cycle? What did that look like dosage wise?
 
cherigo said:
Can it be used with clomid? For example, on a 16 week cycle I may want to do 1 1/2 - 2 months PCT. Could 1st month be torm and transition to clomid for 2nd? I saw this technique earlier in the thread but they were using Nolva. Thanks
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I hate to quote myself but I was really hoping for an answer to the use of toremifene and clomid one after another.
 
If that's what you have, I'd imagine it would be better than ending the PCT early due to insufficient supply of Torm.

Some people still like clomid (even as a stand alone), but I'm skeptical as to weather their preference is attributable to eclectic SERM self-experimentation, (that led to clomid becoming their preference), or if it is simply a matter of it being the first SERM they tried, and possibly they simply trust what they know?

I can't say for sure, it would be unfair for me to presume to know their reasons.

However, if I were going to use both I'd definitely do the Torm first (like you said).
Nolva's my second choice for SERMS after Torm. Clomid is only ok IMO. But if that's what you have, it will still be better terminating PCT prematurely IMO.
 
I have enough of both. I've seen Nolva and Clomid used concurrently and wondered if it was advantageous to use both Tor and Clomid. I know their mechanism of action are a little different and wondered if there would be a synergistic effect.

Thanks for your response
 
You guys have that bubble gum/pepto smelling and tasting torem as well? You know, the one in the blue bottle with the red writing. Who has used this one? And was it effective?
 
Mine was white/chalky and didn't smell bubble gumlike. It tasted how you would imagine a chem to taste. It was very effective for PCT at like 120/60/60, if I remember the dosage right. Good stuff.
 
I've tried the bubble gum smelling/tasting one in the blue bottle. Lol. It was decent. I didn't use it consistently though. (IE: Not in a PCT context)

About the emotional sides: I remember when Torm was just starting to catch on with guys on this board. It was my first time using it, and me and couple other guys were pouring our hearts out to Dr. D about the emotional sides, and dumping our problems on everybody. Lol.

In retrospect, it's kind of funny, but at the time I felt like a 16 yr old girl who's sweet sixteen party was a washout. Lol.

Good news is that it seems that after the first time it was never that bad again. (No more drama queen syndrome.)

However, I can't say if that applied to everyone else or not.

BTW the highest I ever went was 120mg's/day, and that was just for the first 3-4 days of PCT. (Then dropped to 90mg's/day for the rest of week one, then 60mg's/day for 2-3wks, then 30mg's/day etc...)

It worked better than any of the Nolva or Clomid PCT's I'd tried before that.
 
Oh yeah, and that dosing taper above was concurrent with a gradual increase in dosage of an OTC aromatase inhibitor. (like, ATD or androstenetrione, etc...) That's what I meant when I used the term "inverse taper".

And it was also preceded by 20 days of conservatively dosed HCG.
 
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I never had any of that emotional stuff when I used it. I've heard that often about Clomid, but not about toremefine.
 
I don't know if any of the human trials produced much in the way of empirical evidence for it being a regular occurrence or not.

I haven't checked.

But that's just what happened with me and also some other guys.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that it was a coincidence, or even placebo effect.

To answer that, you'd probably have to look that up on Pub-med or something like it. (Medical study journals).
 
I thought only one place carried it. never saw any blue or flavored versions out there. what I got seemed to be legit for sure.

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yeah the bottle is blue, but the torem itself is pink, and smells like bubble gum. Even the taste is a bit bubblicious.
 
A little help here guys...I was originally going to take as a PCT:

Nolva- 30/ 20/ 20/ 10
CS
Formex-50/50/25/25
milk thistle---1 - 2 grams of 80% Extract

but having read up on Torem, would it be ok to switch nolva out for torem?

cycling:

p-plex: 20/20/30/30
m-drol: 0/ 0/ 0/ 10/ 20 / 30
CS
milk thistle---1 - 2 grams of 80% Extract

any ideas??
 
You dont use a serm during a cycle. who told you to do so? I have never heard of any one using Nolva during a cycle! Thats insane you are suppose to take it after the cycle. Thats why its Called PCT. And if you want to control Gyno and things like that you should take B6 during your cycle. P-5-P is a form of vitamin B6 that is less harsh on your liver. Considering that doses over 100mg of B6 could be harsh on your liver.
 
Deadlift3 said:
You dont use a serm during a cycle. who told you to do so? I have never heard of any one using Nolva during a cycle! Thats insane you are suppose to take it after the cycle. Thats why its Called PCT. And if you want to control Gyno and things like that you should take B6 during your cycle. P-5-P is a form of vitamin B6 that is less harsh on your liver. Considering that doses over 100mg of B6 could be harsh on your liver.
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If signs of gyno begin during a cycle, lots of guys have used Nolva while on cycle to specifically combat it. This is why you always see folks advising guys to have Nolva on had right from the start of a cycle, not waiting until the cycle is over. I't's not because you plan to start PCT early, but because you may need it at any point during the cycle.
 
Another good reason to buy more SERM than what you think you need just for PCT. I like to keep some in the cabinet year round just in case, even long after cycles are over. Can be months later and a flareup hits you in the face, you want to be ready.
 
Ha! I can't believe this thread is still going! I posted on page one 4 years ago.
Good to see there's interest in Toremifene still.
 
Been skimming thru this thread. Started in 2005. Is Toremifene still available from IBE? I noticed a lot of people thanking IBE for bringing it to market but I do not see it on their website. I am assuming this is the same IBE that makes Formex and Epistane.
 
luclyluciano said:
Been skimming thru this thread. Started in 2005. Is Toremifene still available from IBE? I noticed a lot of people thanking IBE for bringing it to market but I do not see it on their website. I am assuming this is the same IBE that makes Formex and Epistane.
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No not available from IBE.
Google.
 
Liquidxr said:
Does anyone know if toremifene would be effective for pubertal gyno?
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I'd say nolva would be better for that since it's more tissue specific to the breast area, as I understand.

Quick question for the panel. I'm in PCT now and used up the last of my nolva...about a week at 40 mg. Afterward I switched off to torem. I did a few days at 120, then a couple at 60 and plan to finish off at 30 per day til the bottle is done. Do you guys think this is sufficient or is it necessary to go w/ one thing and run it all the way through?
 
nightfly71 said:
I'd say nolva would be better for that since it's more tissue specific to the breast area, as I understand.

Quick question for the panel. I'm in PCT now and used up the last of my nolva...about a week at 40 mg. Afterward I switched off to torem. I did a few days at 120, then a couple at 60 and plan to finish off at 30 per day til the bottle is done. Do you guys think this is sufficient or is it necessary to go w/ one thing and run it all the way through?
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Well you did dose the Nolva and Torem on the high side so riding out 30/day should work out fine. It dose for me.
 
GotTest said:
Well you did dose the Nolva and Torem on the high side so riding out 30/day should work out fine. It dose for me.
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Good to know. I was pretty sure I'd be fine but you always want opinions. I'm going to just finish out the bottle of torem, which will extend my PCT for another week or two. That will probably only help.

As I understand it, toxicity isn't an issue here the way nolva can be, so I'm thinking the extended PCT can only help solidify HPTA recovery. I was just kind of worried that 50 mg. per day might have been too low.
 
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I'll just rehash what has already been said. Toremifene citrate is the #1 SERM IMO when a SERM is indicated.

And it works wonders for libido restoration in PCT as noted. I like to front load the first few days at 120mgs and then drop the dose. Stay at a high dose for a week and your balls will feel like they are about to explode. Seriously, this stuff leaves nolva in the dark ages, and it has been shown to be basically as effective for gyno as nolva and with less sides.

Toremifene is the unconjugated form of toremifene citrate. The brand name is Fareston and a tablet contains 60mg of toremifene I think. BUT if you read the mfg monogram, it actually contains something like 88mg of toremifene citrate which equates to 60mg of toremifene after you subtract the weight of the citrate anion. All of the RX SERMS are conjugated and, the dose listed reflects the amount of unconjugated SERM based on subtracting the citrate weight off per tablet, etc. (e.g. clomiphene citrate, toremifene citrate, tamoxifen citrate). So if you have some liquid, bubblicious toremifene citrate, the stated concentration on the bottle will probably reflect the conjugated amount per ml. But to be honest, I don't change the way I dose my torem citrate to say make it equal to exactly 60 mg of torem with no citrate. I don't think it makes that big of a difference to have a little consistent inconsistency in other words here.
 
dumbhick3 said:
The blue bottle Torem is my favorite.
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By "blue bottle" do you mean the actual bottle or the chemical?

If it's the chemical, I was just told on another forum that it is very underdosed.

If it's the actual bottle, the one place I know of with blue bottles has been out of stock on Torem for more than a month.
 
LAGear said:
By "blue bottle" do you mean the actual bottle or the chemical?

If it's the chemical, I was just told on another forum that it is very underdosed.
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I meant the bottle (dark blue-hard to see through), lol; the chemical is clear, and it sure as hell doesn't feel underdosed.

If it's the actual bottle, the one place I know of with blue bottles has been out of stock on Torem for more than a month.
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What's your point?:thinking:
 
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