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Toremifene far superior on improving lipid profile than Tamoxifen

LakeMountD

Doctor Science
Antiatherogenic effects of adjuvant antiestrogens: a randomized trial comparing the effects of tamoxifen and toremifene on plasma lipid levels in postmenopausal women with node-positive breast cancer
T Saarto, C Blomqvist, C Ehnholm, MR Taskinen and I Elomaa
Department of Oncology, Helsinki University Central Hospital, Finland.
------>To evaluate whether a novel antiestrogen, toremifene, has similar antiatherogenic effects as tamoxifen. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Forty-nine postmenopausal patients with node-positive breast cancer were randomized in a trial that compared the effects of tamoxifen and toremifene on serum lipoproteins. Tamoxifen was given at 20 mg and toremifene at 60 mg orally per day for 3 years. Serum concentrations of apolipoprotein (apo) A-I, A-II, and B, and lipoprotein(a) [Lp(a)], cholesterol, triglyceride, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), and estradiol were measured before and after 12 months of antiestrogen therapy. RESULTS: Both antiestrogens significantly reduced serum total and LDL cholesterol and apo B levels. However, the response of HDL cholesterol to treatments was clearly different between the groups. Toremifene increased the HDL level by 14%, whereas tamoxifen decreased it by 5% (P = .001). As a consequence, both cholesterol-to-HDL and LDL-to-HDL ratios decreased more in the toremifene than tamoxifen group (P = .008 and P = .03, respectively). Toremifene also increased the apo A-I level (P = .00007) and apo A-I-to- A-II ratio (P = .018). Both tamoxifen and toremifene decreased the Lp(a) concentration significantly (change, 34% v 41%). CONCLUSION: These results provide positive evidence that toremifene has antiatherogenic properties with potency to improve all lipoproteins that are associated with increased coronary heart disease (CHD) risk.



Effects of toremifene (TOR) and tamoxifen (TAM) on serum lipids
M. Kusama1, K. Miyauchi2, H. Aoyama3, M. Sano4, M. Kimura5, S. Mitsuyama6, K. Komaki7 and H. Doihara8
(1) Third Department of Surgery, Tokyo Medical University, 2-25-9 Nishi-shinjuku, Japan
(2) Miyauchi Clinic, Japan
(3) Nagoya National Hospital, Japan
(4) Niigata Cancer Center, Japan
(5) Gunma Cancer Center, Japan
(6) Kitakyusyu Municipal Medical Center, Japan
(7) School of Medicine, University of Tokushima, Japan
(8) Okayama University Medical School, Japan
------>This study clarified the difference in the effects on serum lipids between toremifene (TOR) and tamoxifen (TAM). To remove influencing factors, we investigated adjuvant therapy for hormone receptor-positive patients with breast cancer without lymph node metastasis. The subjects were 65 patients who were enrolled in a multicenter randomized comparative study between April 1997 and March 2001. As adjuvant therapy, 20 mg of TAM or 40 mg of TOR was administered for 1 year. The levels of triglyceride (TG), total cholesterol (TC), high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), apolipoprotein A-1 (Apo A-1), apolipoprotein A(Apo B), and lipoprotein a (Lp(a)) were measured prior to administration and 3, 6, and 12 months after the start of administration. TC, LDL-C, Lp(a) and Apo B significantly decreased from the third month of administration compared with values before the start of administration in both the TOR and TAM groups. HDL-C significantly increased from the third month only in the TOR group. TG significantly increased in the TAM group but significantly decreased in the TOR group in the 12th month of administration. When these two groups were compared, HDL-C was significantly higher ( p < 0.01) and TG was significantly lower ( p < 0.01) in the TOR group in the 12th month. Improvement of abnormal values of TG, HDL-C and LDL-C was better in the TOR group than in the TAM group after administration for 12 months. The effect on lipid metabolism showed different profiles between the two selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs), and TOR gave better results than TAM.
 
Great stuff! :hammer:

Another reason to be happy I took Dr. D's advice and went with Tor for my superdrol cycle.
 
good stuff indeed. I attempted to localize and organize information just like that in this thread: anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/44155-nolva-vs-clomid-vs-toremifene-vs.html
heh, apprently i need more posts to post links!
unfortunately no one else seemed overly interested and I lost my drive to make it happen. work, school, exams etc..

but nonetheless torm is good shiznit!
 
Ronin13 said:
Great stuff! :hammer:

Another reason to be happy I took Dr. D's advice and went with Tor for my superdrol cycle.


what was the PCT with the Toremifene..
dosage and such.
how did you feel on it?
 
Toremifene is great stuff, I took it after superdrol as well. I took it and Diesel test, and perfect cycle only.

Days 1-3 120mg
Days 4-18 60 mg

day 5-28 Diesel Test as suggested on the bottle

The number of days on Tori was a wierd number becasue I broke the damn bottle at about day 15 and was sucking the rest out of the plactic bag I had it in.

The Tori worked far better than expected. I felt like a champ after only 3-4 days and any shrinkage was gone. I ordered 2 more bottles and will use it from now on. The best thing was I took a lot less crap this go around and had better results.

One downside while I took it I was like a highschool kid getting random wood for no reason at some awkward times. Thought I'd mention it since I have seen a few others state the same thing.
 
Torem is essentially the "updated" tamox. Definitely a drug worth looking at for those interested in estrogen manipulation
 
wideguy said:
It's nice to see some people realizing that more is not always better.

Yeah, I am big on that as well. Although, I did research on the dosages in medical uses and it always seemed to be 3x the Nolva dosage. Usually they used 20mg tamox. and 60mg torem. They also stated that torem. needs to be taken slightly higher dosages but when it does it has the same efficacy with lower side effects and improved lipid values. This would mean that since most people start out at 40mg of Nolva, 120mg of Torem. is probably a good starting point. I only used it 2 1/2 weeks and was brought completely back :).
 
My God, did you see the periods of dose administration? Three years on the first and 1 year on the second. I wonder how long it took before positive lipid changes were observable?
 
yeahright said:
My God, did you see the periods of dose administration? Three years on the first and 1 year on the second. I wonder how long it took before positive lipid changes were observable?

Ha, I was thinking the same thing, good point!
 
I was just reading an excerpt from a European study that used 240mg of toremifene daily, but this was for postmenopausal women with metastatic breast cancer.
 
size said:
I was just reading an excerpt from a European study that used 240mg of toremifene daily, but this was for postmenopausal women with metastatic breast cancer.

Actually the study I had found did do a very high dosage as well. It only slightly helped and had higher rate of side effects. Another example of more is not always better. I don't recall what the dosage was but it was definitely 180+.

I find all kinds of cool studies but a lot of times don't post them and just remember back to them, then spend another 20 minutes trying to find them again lol.
 
where do you get the doisng recs from? did anyone do a blood panel with a Toremiphene post cycle therapy?

I came across bloodwork after an M-drol cycle of 10/20/30. He used Torem post post cycle with RPM, reduce xt, and a trib. He didn't specify his torem dosage but I'd assume he ran the typical taper from 120. If I'm not mistaken his total test ended up around 440 toward the end of post cycle.
 
Has anyone using torem for PCT continued to experience strength gains after a sd cycle? Also any negative experience with joint pain on torem? Rebound XT was brutal on the joints.
 
I had used torem and ralox combo with diesel test. I did not lose strength, never had joint issues.

I have my blood values posted in another thread, awaiting PCT test results if you want to check them out. Hopefully, the torem and ralox will help get my cholesterol values corrected a littled, HDL took a hard hit.
 
My God, did you see the periods of dose administration? Three years on the first and 1 year on the second. I wonder how long it took before positive lipid changes were observable?

Yeah, tamox and others are routinely dosed up to 5 years for estrogen dependant tumors.
 
Has anyone using torem for post cycle therapy continued to experience strength gains after a superdrol cycle? Also any negative experience with joint pain on torem? Rebound XT was brutal on the joints.

Joint issues stem from a lack of estrogen in the body. Serms dont lower est, just block it from tissue specific receptors. Serms block est. in the breast tissue, but act estrogen like in other tissues. That is why the have a positive effect on lipid values, and are used to promote bone density in post menopausal women. AIs like RXT inhibit the body's ability to produce est, thus wreak havoc on joints. Typically serms aren't as brutal on the joints as AIs.
 
SERMS are not illegal. Damn some mod's are retarded.

Just because you can buy it doesn't make it strictly legal... Research chem companies use loop-holes, this site doesn't need that kind of attention hence 'da hawk doing his mod thang.

I seem to remember reading that Raloxifene is pretty decent for lipids but I can't say I ever looked into it to verify.
 
They are not legal at all, RickTard. Possession and use of a prescription drug without a prescription is indeed a violation of federal law.
 
sooo

what would you say is a good post cycle therapy using torem?


im on a deca cycle ,about 2 weeks in,....on vitex at the moment, waiting for my letro to arrive(to protect against side effects)........
 
I had used torem and ralox combo with diesel test. I did not lose strength, never had joint issues.

I have my blood values posted in another thread, awaiting post cycle therapy test results if you want to check them out. Hopefully, the torem and ralox will help get my cholesterol values corrected a littled, HDL took a hard hit.

you could take B3 with your pct....it increases hdl levels by 10 to 30 percent.....
 
haha trust me its not because im a genius at this stuff....ive just been researching non-stop so i can insure i maintain good health through alll this
 
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